Frustration over the TS3612

[RevEd]

I live in Tampa and there are 5 Home Depot's within driving range of my home and none have a new 3612 setup so I can see it. :mad: A few stores have them in stock, however no one in any of these stores knew that they were in. I had to search the racks myself to see if they were in. All are up on overheads and no one knows if or when one might be put together for my inspection.

The Ridgid display is in shambles, with stuff piled atop the machines and dust an inch thick. I'm frustrated if this is how the TS3612 are going to be marketed maybe I need to scratch them off my list.

Someone mentioned factory Reps, Compared to Dewalt, Makita, Ryobi or Delta factory reps Ridgids reps appear to be completely in the dark. In most HD when is see a competing Factory Rep they are straightening, dusting and insuring their display is in place. They have good product knowledge and are willing to help. I have never found a Ridgid rep doing any work with a display and quite frankly their displays look it. I have talked to Ridgid factory reps and they know less than I do about their products. When asked about the 3612 their answer was, "your quess is as good as mine." What is that????????? :confused:

Ridgid said they are moving their manufacturing out of the country to save money. I know where they can start saving money and they don't have to move a thing. Get rid of the factory reps or else get some that want to work.

Can anyone tell I'm frustrated?

[daveferg]

RevEd---while I agree with most of what you're saying/frustration, what, in the name of sawdust, does display condition/marketing have to do with the quality of a table saw? Granted, I wouldn't hold my breath regarding HD aftermarket support, but between this forum and Rigid's customer service, don't think you'd ever go wanting.

What's so funny is that with all these stories of frustrated buyers, chomping at the bit, to buy the 3612--but no display models----HD will probably turn around and complain about low Rigid sales figures :D

[RevEd]

Dave
Display does not effect quality, however I'm trying to decide between the TS2424 and the TS3612. The 2424 comes with some nice add ons which the 3612 doesn't. I want to see the changes to the 3612 and decide which is the better way to go.

Let us not lose sight of the real problem and that is why aren't Ridgid reps insuring their products get the attention within the stores like the Dewalt, Ryobi, Black and Decker reps do?

[Alan J.]

Rev Ed,
I know seeing them in person is what you want and others' opinions, while helpful, is not the same as seeing for yourself. That said, I have looked at the 2424 and 3612, though not side by side, and can say without a doubt I would choose the 3612. I am saving up my money now :D I had hoped to find a 2424 on "close-out" since the 3612 was coming out, but, after seeing the 3612 I don't think I would buy a 2424 on close-out even if it saved a couple hundred $$$. Why? I like the new fence design and the greater right-of-blade rip capacity. Accessories? Would definitely want the dust collector but can live without miter hold-down and dado insert (which is 7" if memory serves correctly, I'd buy an 8" dado set so the 7" would be useless). The 3612 has the zero clearance insert which I would buy or make for either saw. I had to see it in person myself because I did not think I would like the new fence locking handle ... I do like it. So I understand the frustration and I can't spend your money for you. Just my opinion that I would go with the 3612 after comparing them.

[daveferg]

RevEd---totally agree on Rigid Reps, at least as far as the net result--but that's not going to get you a saw. Problem is, in order to compare the two, from what I've heard, you're going to have to have perfect timing----2424 still at one store with the 3612 up at another. They simply aren't allowing the floor space for both.

From all I've heard thus far, have to agree with Alan. If the new fence and longer rails, are half as good as everyone is saying, you'll thank yourself for getting the 3612. I've always pointed out that the weakest feature on the 2424 was the fence. Messing around with or constanly checking a fence isn't my idea of woodworking. So, as to value, to me, a good fence outweighs the other extras.

[Dave Arbuckle]

Have you spoken to either the Tool Department Manager, or the Store Manager, at those stores.

Around here, the floor help means well, but they don't have a big picture of anything. Management is where these decisions can be made. I've spoken to the Managers of three Home Depots in my area, and they have all been sharp, will to listen, and strongly interested in a happy customer. Problem is, they cannot pay attention to the whole store in great detail, and stationary tools are really a specialty item.

Dave

[JSchnarre]

Ed,

Please drop me a line via email

Thanks
Jake

[ECoke]

Rev..as a recent EX Home Depot store manager..I can say my Ridgid rep did an excellent job! I do however understand your frustration. I paid a bit more attention to my tool displays not only because it made good business sense, but also I own a 2424 and am a woodworking wannabe myself. Space allocation is a constant struggle in the big boxes, and Depot has not done a good job at handling clearance products well. We just never had enough space! Then to top it off, they screwed up by keeping the same sku which only adds confusion to the tool center employees. Now they must find precious space for two! If you'd like to drop me a email i know most of the store managers there, will make a call or two and see if I can get your displays set up.

[daveferg]

Rev Ed Boy---talk about getting some juice---Between Jake and ECoke, you've got no excuse not to get the saw :D

[jip]

I gotta agree with RevEd, I have called 6 Home Depots around the Bay Area in Northern California and none can give me a straight answer. Over half of the stored I called didn't know what I was referring to. I called one HD, and the did help search for the unit in nearby stores, and said that there were some. When I called the stored directly, they could not tell me if there are any in stock. Also, it was impossible to get a price. One of the stores had the SKU number pointing to both the TS2424 and the TS3612.

Anyone from around the Bay Area in CA, and have seen one in a nearby HD ?

Anyone know how much does the TS3612 go for?? Inquiring minds want to know....

Thanks
- Jimmy

[RevEd]

Jake and Ecoke I have sent you both e-mails, waiting for my next step.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me
I really do appreciate it.

[daveferg]

Jimmy---don't know how much travel you want to do, but the Napa store had the 3612 half-way put together week before last. Price same as the 2424---$597.00

[Tony M.]

Jimmy --
Phone calls don't work. I found mine by looking in the racks myself at the Sacramento Sunrise store. I stopped by on a whim last Friday after talking to the tool corral guy on the phone, who didn't know anything about a TS3612!

Put it together over the weekend, and did the first serious work with it tonight. It is a fine tool.

[Schmian]

Let me apologize, in advance, for the length of this post...

I've been following all the discussions about the TS3612 with great interest.
First, I'd like to say that I'm unimpressed with Emerson's/Home Depot's attempts to get the saw out to stores and to be made available for customers to view, let alone purchase.
However, I've also been swayed with the reviews posted by woodworkers who have gone to HD's and personally hunted amongst the aisles and racks to find items that store personnel were unable/unwilling to find.
Glowing reports on the quality of the machines, an apparent willingness by Emerson to listen to customer improvement wishes, and the inclusion of nice features as standard equipment have me still interested in a TS3612 when the time comes for my TS purchase.

Now here's the reason for my post; it's time for Emerson/Ridgid to get serious about addressing its' customers concerns about availability, shipping and price.
From the posts in this forum, it appears that the quality of the machine is very good; therefore, Jake, as a production manager, I think that you are not the correct person to address these issues. Emerson's marketing department and/or customer service group (do they exist?) need to jump on this issue without delay. Putting some information and answering the questions on this forum would be a small start. Next, they need to address the perceived problems concerning their product reps. The frustrations conveyed on this forum site should be taken as a sign of things that are going on all over the country; and to me, it seems like Emerson/Home Depot have a BIG problem (in fact, this isn't the only Internet woodworking forum on which Emerson is starting to be questioned.. the problem is growing).

However, and finally, if it is part of Emerson's strategy to alienate and frustrate customers at Home Depot stores (in an attempt to do what?), i'd request that Emerson keep us advised of that, as well.

Jake, a little information from Emerson would go a long way.

[Matthew Schenker]

I'd also like some information. Yesterday, I went to my local Home Depot again, and again no one knew where or what the TS3612 was. That's my third and final trip to find this product. There is another woodworking supply store right near the Home Depot where I can pick up a Delta contractor saw without delay.

I am going to wait a couple more days, because I really like what I am hearing about the TS3612. I'm going to watch this forum to see if Ridgid responds by the end of this week. If not, I'm going with the Delta.

What else can I do?

[ 08-21-2002, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Matthew Schenker ]

[Marker]

This is a line of discussion that keeps poping up over and over again and I have experienced some of the same frustrations. Jake, I know HD is a big portion of Emerson's bread and butter, but is anything ever going to be done to help improve the situation? I love your tools, but many times it is so much easier to buy another brand. Though your customer service is awesome, I can't help thinking that you are losing possible sales by poor representation and marketing.

[daveferg]

Jake--despite all the venting, we do appreciate you being here, and a great resource in this forum. I think the key point people should realize is that, when making this saw, for Sears, the basic saw was a good one. Emerson/Rigid, rather than figuring out a way to make it cheaper, have sought ways to constantly improve the product. That's a rare approach these days.

Of course, trying to convince HD that they're doing something wrong, will be even harder, since the billion dollar profit mark was just hit this last quarter--now up with Walmart's record.

Made a quick trip there yesterday---of course, no 3612 yet. I went there for nothing more than a half-sheet of any 1/4" cabinet grade plywood---not only didn't have what I needed, but looking at their wood---geesh! Most of it was barely fit for firewood, and yet done the aisles, people were gleefully loading up carts with the most knarly, twisted lumber you'd want to see.

Point being, I wouldn't count on HD to do anything right.

[Reggie]

It seems to me that we could be helpfull to each other If those who have seen this saw in stock at a particular store give the stores location. I will start if off with the Mesquite Tx store has 2 units as of 8/15/02. I will let you know if I see any others being that I normally go to several different stores a week. The reason why most stores do not carry the newer saw is because new ones will only be ordered when the old stock runs out. I would suggest you by past the toolcrib employee and go directly to the store manager. Being this is a high dollar item he would more likely to order it for you are search area stores for one. Lets face it HD doesn't sell many of the saws on a day to day basis.
Reggie

[Docdick]

I was in the HD In Gainesville Fl today to get some other items, W A L A H !!!!! there as the elusive 3612 setting next to the 2424. I was shocked but did take a few minutes to look it over. If id did not have a great saw (2412) I would have bought the 3612 TODAY !! The extra Right side, fench and cast web wings.. N I C E !!
But if I had bought it my better half would have granted me an instant DEATH SENTANCE. As she is wel aware of whay has been spent in the last 4 months on my toys/ tools. Those of you can get this DO IT and enjoy.. ;) Docdick

[Docdick]

JAKE< My offer still stand to get the HD in NE Fla in line and clean up the RIDGID AREAS as they still look BAD !! :mad: as you are loosing sales
E-Mail me. smile.gif Docdick@gbso.net

[jip]

I went to one HD in Sunnyvale, and I had to help the guy move over merchandize off the 2424 in order to take a look at it.

That table saw sure can hold lots of other products that Home Depot is selling!

- Jimmy

[Original Bart]

If it were me someone would be taking turns even from way up the chain of command even the CEO or President would be dropping in unannounced from store to store all over the country & look at the display & who ever was at fault if it is a Rigid employee they may or may not have a job & someone would replace them if need be & the word would be put out what is being done. If it is a HD problem the CEO or President of HD would see me so much he would either change the way things are going or quit. If it's HD & I had a chance at the top man I'd like to talk to him. I've worked in this industry at one time if I didn't take care of the displays I wouldn't have had a job. Honestly I didn't like dealing with some of the public but I still did a good job until I could find better work.

[RevEd]

I saw it!!!! :D
Zake got back to me and said that he had arranged for a 3612 to be built and put on display a local HD by this Friday. I just happened to be at the HD today and there was the Ridgid Rep putting to together the TS3612.

Guys she is beauty! :D

The Ridgid Rep was about 1 hour into what he figured to be a 3 hour job so I could get a real good look at each part before they were stuck together. By the way he said it would take me about 5 hours to put the saw together. I hope he said that because that is how long it takes the first time and not because I looked like an idiot. :confused:

First the Fence and rails are redone. On the old fence there was a warning to push the fence forward before locking to insure a parallel fit. On the new fence there is no warning and from looking at it from all angles it looks like as you push the paddle down the fence automatically is forced parallel and then the the front and back locks engage.

Reading the scale on the fence is so much easier with the new magnifying indexes, plus there are two one for right and one for left of blade.

The micro adjust seems to be a really great idea, I wasn't able to use it as the rails and fence weren't mounted yet but from what I have seen of other attempts this is by far the best.

The rear trunnion adjuster is fantastic. Talking to the rep he assured me I would probably not need it since the saw is so well aligned coming out of the factory.

The zero clearance insert is really neat and slick. It adjusts more ways than the regular insert.

Let me now give a big thank you to Zake. Guys he came through! He contacted me by E-mail and arranged for a machine to put together to be seen. He is the perfect definition of customer service. Again thanks Zake!!!!!!!!

Did I buy it? No not yet I also found out that starting Friday HD is giving 10% off the first purchase of a newly opened charge card account Friday through Labor Day. Guess who is getting a HD charge card Friday. :D Let's see I will save about $60 Maybe a dust collector for the TS and a flip top. Or a new freud saw blade, or maybe a few zero clearance inserts, or ... you get the idea!!! Come on Friday!!!!

[daveferg]

Glad to hear you finally got to see the saw (wish I could :rolleyes: ). Buying it Friday?---better not wimp out ;) Seriously, knowing the basic saw, you won't be disappointed. BTW---as I remember putting mine together---make sure you have a good straight edge, some scrap wood and a rubber/soft mallet, for aligning the wings. Also don't forget, the motor bracket needs to pivot freely :D , the mistake most of us have made.

We expect a full report. Enjoy

[Schmian]

That's great! Glad you finally got to see one.

Also, good report and, like Dave, I hope you'll post when you get yours home.

Congratulations.

Schmian

[Doug in Atlanta]

Gosh- after reading this thread, and talking to a few folks, I feel *Lucky*! We have a brand new H-D across from my office, (and 6-1/2 minutes from home)that has the 3612 on display, although when I asked the clerk about it, he didn't have a clue. I asked another question, and he said, "You know more about it than I do"; I said, Gee, mebbe they ought to give me your job! :rolleyes:
I also go the 10% discount couplon and 6 mo. same as cash flyer in the mail yesterday, so this weekend.. I'll own a new saw!Are they still offering any 'Freebies' with it? Like a zero clearance or dust port?
(Besides, if I have trouble with it, I *know* Dave Arbuckle, so he can come fix it! ) ;)

[Jamie]

Great to see that you finally got a saw that you are going to be happy with. You have been looking a long time, but I am sure that you will like the TS3612. I got my 2424 last December, but I really like the fence on the TS3612. I enjoy working with my saw...but I am a little envious of the 3612.

I am going to take advantage of the 10% off sale to get a new Ridgid jointer and save about $50. Great idea!!

[Doug in Atlanta]

Thanks, Jamie! I haven't been this excited since... since.. uhh well, since I got to meet Dave A. at IWF ! ;)
I'm sorta glad I need the saw, because my next choice was between the jointer and bandsaw.. and I really couldn't decide!
Hopefully, H-D will run this special again at Xmas! (Give SWMBO the card and the SKU!)

[Dave Arbuckle]

Doug, I thought for sure I had you talked into the Format4... :D

Dave

[Oops]

Does anyone have a copy of the 10% discount they could scan and e-mail?

Thanks,

Oops

[jip]

I talked to a new store manager in the HD in Palo Alto, and he had one shipped to me from another location. I picked it up yesterday, and started building it today. So far, I have put 3 hours into it, and it is starting to come together. I aligned the wings as best as I could. I squared the wings on the front, but the back is not quite squared. Not sure if this will affect when I install the rails.

- Jimmy

[Tony M.]

I spent an enjoyable weekend putting mine together a couple of weeks ago. Aligning the wings flush with the front and top of the main table took a bit of patience, but pays off in keeping the fence square throughout its travel. The back edge of the right wing was unflush (that's a technical metalworing term) with the rear of the table, and needed a couple of shims when I got to installing the rear fence guide rail. It helps to skim the whole manual through before diving in. It also helped me to download the pdf version of the manual from this site and print it out. That way you get the "large print" edition which you can still read while it is laying on the shop floor and sweat is dripping into your eyes.

Have fun with your new saw,

[jip]

Tony,

Did you just used wood shims to get the rear rails squared ?

I am going to putting mine together tonight so that I can use it over the 3 day weekend.

Thanks
- Jimmy

[Charlie P]

Shims come with the saw but most people don't get to use them.

[Nothern Beaver]

Things are very different in Canada. There are 2 major competitors in the Toronto area peddling different brands of equipment so the stores here are all laid out beautifully. The Rigid displays are complete. We have every power tool Rigid makes in almost all stores displayed in their own area. I just bought a Rigid Jointer that needed some adjustments despite what the manual said but it works perfectly. I am now looking at replacing my existing vintage table saw with the Rigid 3612. It looks great. smile.gif

[Elcarion]

I just purchased a 3612 at my local HD with the 10% off no interest/payments for 6 months deal. It's really a great saw for money. The new fence is what really made the difference for me. I would have to agree somewhat with others complaining about the Ridgid display area. The New Tampa Store on BBD Blvd had the 3612 on display but no model information, no price, no nothing. I was only able to identify the saw based on the photo from the box on the shelf. The salesman at HD was very helpful and knew the price of the saw and knew about the new fence design. Now if only the table had a T-Slot for the mitre gauge it would be perfect!

[KellyC]

The best displays in Dallas HD's tools sectioons is in the HD Supply store...unfortunately, they have hired morons to work the aisles and it's very hard to get an answer on anything. The most knowledgeable employees are in the Foprest Lane Store as far as I know, but White Rock is a close second depending on who you get to help you....White Rock doesn't have the display thing down at all and they need tons of help...all the Ridgid products are stuffed under a large shelf in the Tool Crib and are covered in dust.

On another unrelated note, I would like to know if anyone has the portable saw/stand. I bought one in 2000 and it vibrated so much I went back and traded it for the 2424 (my space was limited at the time)...I love the 2424 and don't mind the fence push at all...anyway, I wanted the replace the Delta portable I have as it has begun to vibrate a lot and the stand is very poorly designed (the Delta "kickstand" for TS's) and I'm tired of messing with it.

[capt.safety]

About a month ago I bought a 2424 because of the free accessories that came with it. When I got home opened the box and started assemble I had 50% 3612 and 50% 2424. Long story short, HD was USELESS Ridgid was fantastic. I got a full 3612 plus the accessories for my trouble, and it IS far superior to the 2424. I love it! The HD manager sold his 2424 ofter working with me and bought his other 3612. My suggestion:

Expect to get what you pay for at HD (Advice at a discount)

BUY A 3612!!!!!!!!!

[KellyC]

I posted this in the other General Discussion forum, but it really belongs here...th9is may not be the popular viewpoint, but here's my take....

I looked at one today at the HD Supply store...their display of Ridgid Tools was not nearly as good as I thought, but they did have it. I was under the impression that the fence was infinitely better than the 2424's....I tried it out and got it to lock without being square the very first time. It reminded me of the portable saw's fence a lot. Not bad, just not the fence everyone talks about. I'll stick with my 2424 anyday as the fence will always have a table surface under it (the 3612 doesn't). I would like the zero clearance insert though!

[RixWorx]

KellyC

I bought one from Ridgid Parts online. You can see it installed at http://community.webshots.com/album/50560853bczanU

see this thread http://www.ridgid.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000090

[daveferg]

Kelly, I think you have to consider the place where you saw the fence set up. From all the complaints, about HD, in this thread, would your really expect them to have the fence properly aligned?

If you look at the comments of people who have actually purchased and put the saw together, they love the new fence. The jury is still out on actuall magazine reviews/tests. I do understand that Am. Woodworker has reviewed the saw and given it a Best Buy award. Besides, if you have had success with the 2424 fence, which didn't get very high marks for it's fence, I'd certainly consider the 3612 if the design has improved.

[KellyC]

Nice outfeed table RixWorks! I just built one from four 2x4's resawn for my last bookcase project. Thanlks for the info on the zero clearance insert.

[KellyC]

Maybe you're right Dave. It sure looked like it was setup right, but hey, you never know. I have had my 2424 for two years now and love it. It's gonna be a long time before it gets replaced (if ever). I'm used to the way the fence works and can lock it square with one hand with the tape measure in the other. I would like the wheels to be a little taller though...my rough floor is murder on the short ones that came with it. Unfortunately , I can't move the "legs" up to give them more clearance or the wheels won't retract fully for stability when sawing. I guess I better get the floor resurfacing kit from Lowe's...

[Mike in Canada]

I wonder if this is a problem with the American Home Depots. I've been to a dozen here in Canada and all had great Ridgid displays. And yes the one I was in this weekend had a 3612 setup.