Additional Line for K-380

[maxienterprises]

Help! I am new to this forum, and have spent the last 2 hours enjoying the various postings, trying to see if any asked the question which I am now posting:

Senario: We purchased a K-380 from Home Depot about a year ago. I guess it works okay, but we bought it specifically because of a problem that persists in the basement laundry room of 4plex unit we manage. It seems to us, every time the city "upgrades" the street outside our building, without fail, the basement floods with backed-up sewage! It last happened about a year or so ago, and now it has happened again! The city, of course, showed us how the main sewer line was running free, which, or course, meant they were not liable. The county, bless their hearts, were eager to show us the same, but with a little more caring and concern. Bottom line, we have sewage in the basement. Unhappy calls from tenants left us with little options but to try and clean out drain. The prior time, we paid well over $200 to have the line snaked; we wised up, then bought our own system.

Weeeelllll, the line is too short! We are not able to snake all the way out to the city's main line, thus unable to reach any blockage. And blockage we do have, especially when it rains. The basement literally floods! I'm talking about 10-12" of standing water! Not all sewage, but when we pump out the top water, it is sewage in the last 2-3" of it! My son-in-law theorized, correctly I assume, that since the back gutter downspouts connect to clay pipes that lead under the building, presumably to connect to the sewer line, that is why we have so much clear water in the beginning. However, we know it is blockage (or something), because we cannot clear the sewer line at all. Once the rain dies down, it seems to seep, ever so slowly, down.

Bottom line, I am about to pull my hair out!! After spending this past weekend snaking the line with about 100' of line, and trying to blow it out with a pressurized system, we STILL have blockage!!!!

HELP!!!! First of all, we want to know if getting an additional 100' of line from Ridge for the K380 will help -- specifically, can it attach to the existing line? Want to know that pretty quick before I shell out the $165 plus s/h to get it in. Second, whatelse do you think could be causing the backup?? Need some old pros to help direct me in the right direction!! Much thanks!

[BHD]

First I have worked more as a building contractor, than as a plumber, also was a wast treatment plant operator, take it for what it is worth,
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One of the first things I think you should find out is the type of blockage your dealing with,
I would think that hiring some one to come and camera the line would be money well spent,
That way you will be able to see if it is a blockage or a settled line or what is the actual cause is and you will then know how to deal with the problem.

If the line is settled or collapsed, or roots, or there is some wad of plastic or cloth, or rocks,
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I have a K380 as well, and yes you could put an additional line on it, if the end are on both ends, but I don't think the machine would preform very well.
and since the drum is not a removable drum I doubt if it was ever designed with the idea of adding at lest large amounts of addition line, and the end of the cable is bolted to the drum, there is not a short pig tail cable to attach to.

manual for the 380,http://www.ridgid.com/ASSETS/F60293F80E1F423FA8A0FF508D0DCFCD/278-110-011.10_K380_Drum_Machine_Man.pdf

It says with 3/8" the reach is 100' and with 1/2" the reach is 75', page page 4 of the actual manual, page numbering.

As far as the reach of the K380, one way to solve the problem is to add a clean out down the line so you can reach the end,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It also sound like the storm sewer is joined with the sanitary sewer, (in many places this would be considered an illegal connection) and IMO that in its self could be a lot of the problem, also if that is the way a lot of the units are in the area, it is possible that some of the flooding could be the city's problem, (first in a non rain situation, the piping on the city sewer may be more than properly sized, but in a heavy rain it may be way to small thus adding to the flooding situation) and the only way one would know is to check the man hole or main when it is raining heavily and see if it is handling the load under those conditions.

When I was in running a wast treatment plant in Montana in my younger days,
we had a similar problem in that the clay line that was used for the sewer main of the school I worked in, (an old air force station), would run a full when we had a heavy rain storm (8" line), and would over load the wast treatment plant, this was down hill from the housing and the buildings so we did not have a flooding problem, but to solve the problem, we had to replace with new gasket-ed plastic pipe. to eliminate the infiltration we were having with the line.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another thing depending on the type of blockage you may have the K-380 may not be enough machine to handle the problem, it is not a root machine, and the 3/8" cable is not heavy enough to really handle much more than a 2" line,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Since the blockage is a reoccurring problem,

Roots sounds like a good possibility, or a line that is settled and has a low spot in that is filling with debris, (in the above type of problem replacing or repairing the line is probably the better option), if it is roots, removing the tree, or shrubs, that is the cause could be considered.

Could there be some one that is dumping large amounts of grease down the drains, (here is memo time to the tenants, also feminine hygiene products are not helpful either, the wast basket is a good place for them NOT the sewer), you would not believe the barrels of items I would rake off the intake screen to the wast treatment plant,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In some places they place a one way valve in the sewer line, so in theory if the main line would back up the building would not be flooded, but if that valve malfunctions and sticks it could causing or a blockage in your line to the street.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
this url has some good tips on it,
http://www.sccmua.com/backup.htm

[BHD]

One more thing as to the look of the water, in the flooded basement,
one of the first things most books on wastewater treatment starts out saying is,

Sewage is:

"99.9% pure water"


Wastewater is defined as the water borne wastes of a community. It contains approximately 99.9% pure water and 0.1% pollutants by weight.
http://www.tweed.nsw.gov.au/Education/st_1_wastewater.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/sewage

so remember that next time you buy a bar of ivory soap, LOL.

[All Clear Sewer]

Hummmmmmmm


Well well, I think $200 was better then buying a K-380 from Home Depot :p to try and be a DIY. It`s better left to the pro`s as that K-380 from Home Depot is not made to do main lines. Now thats the Bottom line :rolleyes:

There are reasons we get the big pay:eek: :D

[maxienterprises]

Thanks to all who responded to my question. Believe it or not, I appreciate greatly ALL of the comments made, incl yours All Clear (lol). You certainly earn your money, I'm sure . . . But not so sure all of them do. Not sure I was trying to do mainline ??? was I??? Guess when I bought the machine, I was just trying to clear out any blockage, and the K380 didn't seem all that much smaller than the machine that the guy used who I paid $200 to. But, took your comment to heart, and have a "sewer expert" coming tomorrow to look in the line to see what's to be seen. His cost is only $117, so I'll report back after that . . .

In any event, BHD, I suspect we have a settled or low line, since the sidewalk has dropped in front of the building. Doubt it is roots, since there are no trees (could grass be a problem??) and just some front yard in the front of the building. The property actually is not in Renton, but in the Rainier Beach area of Seattle, an older neighborhood. The building is 100% brick, built in about the early '50's or so. Solid as a rock, but I suspect everything is old, as the pipes are cast iron. I never doubt that tenants clog the drain with grease, as we have sent numerous letters advising them that this not an acceptable way to dispose of the grease (down the drains). That problem usually shows up in a clogged kitchen and/or connected bath/tub drain line. I just don't think that the problem lies there, since we NEVER, and I repeat NEVER have had a problem until the city started "improving" the sidewalk and street in the front of the building two years ago. Now, EVERY TIME they do something major in the front, we have a backed up sewer. They just dug up the planting strip in the front of the building (all along the street, actually) and planted trees. Sure enough, as soon as the trees were planted, we had a back up.

ToUtahNow, what is a mainline machine? To all, what is a link machine? Are they different? What is the difference between using a machine vs jetting the line? What about blowing (??) the line??

Interesting enough, we had quite a bit of rain last night. I went to the property today, fully expecting the basement to be flooded again. It wasn't. Maybe all of the snaking over the weekend was not in vain, since no backup, but some standing water in the outside sewer line. I'll know better by tomorrow, since we are expecting more rain (welcome to Seattle, boys).

I must say, I am so pleased that you experts looked at my posting. My husband was quite impressed with the detailed response, and wants to know, if the K380 is not the machine, what is? What do you guys know about the Gurlick (sp?). We have an opportunity to get one from a pawn shop for $900 (they wanted $1800, but no takers -- wonder why??). It is a model 62, with two 100' lines and two 50' lines. Do those connect to make a total of 200' and 100', respectively? Is it better than the K380? Is that something we should invest in?

Finally, we have considered the potential cost of replacing the sewer line that leads out to the street. Am thinking that it is cost prohibitive at this point, since money is tight and we are limping it along. But, have had to face the sobering truth that it may end up being that -- we are hoping, nay, PRAYING, that this does not end up there. When the sewer expert comes tomorrow, I'll have him camera the line and tell me what's up. I'll report back. Thanks, all, for the postings.

[maxienterprises]

By the way, BHD, had a hard time bathing in my Ivory soap!!! That was great!! :p

[ToUtahNow]

The reason I suspect you have a main line stoppage is if your stoppage was limited to your laundry room the flooding would stop when you stop using the laundry. The fact that your basement gets flooded tells me your tenants are continuing to use their plumbing because they have no way of knowing the main line is stopped up. The more they use their plumbing the more there is spilling back through the laundry room floor drain.

I would be surprised if you are getting storm water into your basement. It is illegal to have storm water and wastewater mixed. With the exception of a few of the older Cities on the East coast I don’t know of any Cities where they blend their wastewater and storm water.

The Gorlitz 62 is a 5/8” cage machine which I consider too small for a main line machine and could get you hurt in a hurry. A better choice for you might be the Ridgid K-60. Here is a link which includes a video of the K-60 in action:

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/K60-Drain-Machine/index.htm (http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/K60-Drain-Machine/index.htm)

You would have to buy extra 7/8” cable as the kit only comes with 75’ but you could still get everything you needed for under $2,000. As a bonus Ridgid has a promotion where you could get a free 5/8” cable kit just for buying the K-60. Between the K-380 and the K-60 you would have everything you could ever need short of a small top snake.

Mark

[All Clear Sewer]

what is a mainline machine?


http://www.ridgid.com/assets/thumbnail.asp?path=/ASSETS/88A38D7298124B2DAB53E626BF03B767/K7500_Drum_Machine_3C.jpg&key={6D5A160D-496B-47A7-A624-610E1CBE7053} Any questions? ;)

[All Clear Sewer]

where do I find that promotion on the K-60?
I was thinking about getting one for doing basement jobs as my K-7500 is a 2 man job in basements:cool:


Forget it, I found the pro-mo

[Josh]

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Spring-Fling-2007/

where do I find that promotion on the K-60?
I was thinking about getting one for doing basement jobs as my K-7500 is a 2 man job in basements:cool:

[All Clear Sewer]

Found it Josh, Thanks anyway ;)

[PLUMBER RICK]

i would like to see a heavier, tighter wound k-60 cable. the k-50/ 5/8'' cable comes in 3 different winds.

the k-60 would benifit from a stiffer/ heavy duty, cable. so would i;)

josh, help me/ us on this request:)

rick.

sorry for twisting this thread. i was too late to input my 2 cents.

the suggestions, all sound good to go.;)

[maxienterprises]

Okay, gents, the results are in!

I met with a sewer & drain specialist today re: my stopped basement problem. He ran 110' of cable line in the drain; nothing. We had ran 100' of cable on Saturday.

Then he pulled out the camera. Pretty interesting! Even more interesting was that at 93' the view changed from murky sewage floating in water to solid, and he was unable to push the camera cable down further.

Diagnosis: build up of sludge in the pipes. To reach the main line, we had to get to almost 150', so at 93', we have quite a bit of sludge build up. It was most enlightening.

Tomorrow he is back to flush the line (?) with water jets running at 3000 rpm (or something like that). He expressed worry initially that he would have a problem getting from 93' to 150+/- ' to the city's main sewer line, then told me he would make it work. He quoted me a price of $350 to do the service, and advised that it was a great price since it typically costs about $600-700 for the service. No charge for snaking it and running the camera. I don't know if it is a good price or not, but the sludge factor was undeniable.

When he pulled his camer back out, the line was coated with the sludgey sewage (ewww!!). Yeah, All Clear, I do see why you get paid the big bucks. His next question to me was "where is the nearest car wash??? I need to power wash my equipment down." Go figure!

Although he volunteered to perform the service without my being there, I am now totally fascinated with the whole process. He understood; after being in the business for 13+ years, he said he was initially fascinated. Now, at the tender age of 31, he is burnt out on doing residential jobs. He said he hates trying to sell the customer and convince them to get jobs done, since he is paid on commission. Understandable, being in sales myself. I hope the price was fair, because I told him to "let's do it!"

I did ask him about the Gorlitz, and he replied that it was a bigger, tougher version of the K-380 (in his opinion). His machine was a big monster, weighing in at 300 lbs, he said. It took a winch to get it back into the back of his truck!! He scoffed at using a link-type machine, telling me that those were a piece of crap and to stay away from them if I wanted to avoid heartache. Opinions, anyone?

Viewing the links sent, what is the difference between my K-380 and the 3800? and up? They look the same to me. Should we upgrade to something bigger and/or more commercial? What about investing in the equipment that does the water jetting? What does one of those set someone back, and is it a good investment? Today, I can see where it would be. Would it be wise to invest in one of those in the future?

And what are the chances that the sludge factor will return in the future? What would have caused it in the beginning? Or, would snaking the line occassionally throughout the year suffice? I need some direction here, guys. Would something like that be considered routine maintenance? Should I have the other properties I manage snaked for convenience sake (and to avoid future issues, if there be any)?? Will the K-380 be able to handle that?

I've enjoyed your participation immensely, and thank you all for your valuable input.

[ToUtahNow]

I have been doing plumbing for 35-years and I have used both sectional machines and drum machines during that time. The advantage to a drum machine is they gets the job done quickly. The disadvantage to a drum machine is they are heavy, take up a lot of room, potential dangerous to the user and often cannot clear stoppages a sectional machine can.

The debate between sectional machines and drum machines has been going on for a long time. When I sold my business of 20-years I could have kept and drain cleaning equipment I wanted. There is a reason I kept all sectional machines. As for a jetter I think I would wait a little longer and see how you do with a snake first.

Your real question now should be what is causing the sludge to build up in your line. Hopefully after a good cleaning your plumber will run his camera again and find your problem.

Good luck-Mark

[All Clear Sewer]

Well Lets see here,
He ran the camera while the line was still stopped up? I always clear the line so I can see why and where the problems are as you cant see in murky water.
Look at it this way,
if you were to stick your head in the sewer murky water you couldn't see so why would you even try with-out first snaking the line out?

I have a problem with guys that claim to be sewer guys that don't take the right steps such as only having 100` of cable on the truck...errrrr

A real drain specialist would have at least 200` on the truck at all times. I get to hear it all the time "Roto-Rooter was out hear and he had to go back to the shop and get more cable and he charged me extra for it" Pisses me off that some claim to be drain specialist when they just do everything to take more time so they can charge more money for the same job that could have been done in 1/2 the time.

Should he have charged you to run the camera???? "NO" Why not? because the line was not ready to be viewed as you cant see through a turd.

Should he have charged you to run 110 cable in the line "NO" because he should have had more cable ready to go on the line when he was starting on the job.

Now as far as the price he quoted of $350.00, Hard to say as the line is not clear yet.

Heres how I charge out sewer jobs,

Cable sewer............................................. ....$70 an hour
Vider Inspection After Cable...........................flat fee of $75.00
Video inspection of line that I have not cabled..$100 an hour
Sewer Locates........................................... ....$50 for a line I cabled
Sewer Locates........................................... ....$100 an hour on non cabled sewers

So as you see it`s hard to say if his price is high or not till the job is done.
Most sewer jobs only take me about an hour or less but if you have a problem such as a broken line causing the slug build up it`s hard to say till you get the water level down so you can use the camera to find the problem.
Either way, if he`s a drain specialist he should have enough cable on his truck before he starts the job!!!!
And in my eyes, A Drain Specialist should have some plumbing in his back ground so he knows how a drain/waste line should work. Ok I`m done ranting, for now anyway...lol

[BHD]

Look at the bottom link and then open up the mauals on the k380 and 3800, and compaire, besides the basic look I think the 3800 can use a smaller cable as well.

The biggest difference is in the Machines are cable diameter and with bigger size there is more strength to the cable and stifness.
The length of cable the machine can hold, and some in power.
Some of the larger machines can even use additional drums to add extra lengths of cable to the drain line,

The pipe helps support the cables, a cable it will twist up and wrap around it self if one end hits an obstruction and stops turning or if it is just out in the open, stretch out the cable on you k380 out on the lawn and turn it on, and watch the cable.

You may have experienced the cable trying to twist around it self when you were feeding cable into the drain,

If one uses to small of a cable in, to large of a pipe the cable will will try to twist around it self, and may knot up sticking the cable in the drain or breaking.

here is a basic comparison of the RIDGID machines lined up, as to line size, which is more to do with cable size. open up the manuals and read, there is recomended cables and pipe size.
http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Drain-Maintenance/index.htm

there are a lot of posts on the board about clearing drains and troubles incountered, read and learn, I know I am.

[maxienterprises]

Thanks, ToUtahNow, for the input re: sectional vs drum. Waiting works for me anyway ;)

All Clear, you have given me some serious food for thought. Never even wondered why he only had 110' of cable!! He actually only got 10' further than we did, which IS something I realized, but didn't know any better to question the lack of cable. I guess I was mesmerized by the fact that he brought in the camera, which he did say had a 200' line and was unable to get it past 93'. He explained that the sludge becomes a lot like oatmeal, which would allow the snake to plow through, closing around the line as it went through. The camera, however, was not clawing through the sewage, thus it was challenging to push it further.

I need direction, fast, on what to ask him when he shows up about 2 hrs from now. Should I call his office and request that he re-snake the line with 200' of cable first, then redo the camera? Should I allow him to proceed with jetting the line, then camera it? What do you guys suggest???

I guess if I don't hear from you before I have to meet him, I'll let him proceed with jetting, then request another camera, then question him on the lack of cable since my journeymen professionals (smile) have advised me to do so. Luv your attention to me, guys! I'ma counting on you -- we're in this together (where did I hear that from???).

[maxienterprises]

BHD, I have been reading the past posts voraciously, and trust me, it has been a HUGH learning experience! Not only that, you guys are flat out funny!!!

I am totally LOST on what you are trying to tell me in your post. I realize that you were explaining the basic operation of the snake, but what's the difference between the K380 and the 3800, besides the 3800 being able to use smaller lines?? Is it better for commercial jobs vs the K380 best for residential jobs? Not sure what you wanted me to learn, and I'm tryin' to learn, believe me.

[All Clear Sewer]

Have him snake it!!! If he cant get a snake down it, I dont think a jetter will do anything.

He explained that the sludge becomes a lot like oatmeal, which would allow the snake to plow through, closing around the line as it went through.

not buying that story, If it becomes a lot like oatmeal and he cant get past that, you better call someone else.

[PLUMBER RICK]

BHD, I have been reading the past posts voraciously, and trust me, it has been a HUGH learning experience! Not only that, you guys are flat out funny!!!

I am totally LOST on what you are trying to tell me in your post. I realize that you were explaining the basic operation of the snake, but what's the difference between the K380 and the 3800, besides the 3800 being able to use smaller lines?? Is it better for commercial jobs vs the K380 best for residential jobs? Not sure what you wanted me to learn, and I'm tryin' to learn, believe me.

the k-3800 is a more commercial machine. sort of like a homeowner k380 moving up to a professional k3800. it also holds a little longer cable.

it's possible the issue you're having actually has to do with backfall at the distance out. there is no reason why sludge will build up in that particular location only. either backfall/ poor slope, roots.

a jetter is great for sludge and muck. the proper jetter and nozzle will do a great job on roots. the problem is the nozzle alone is $1000.

rick.

[All Clear Sewer]

I would love to see a jetter do what I can do with a K-7500 :D

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/15497P1030628.JPG

this one was jetted before I showed up to save the day :D

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/15497P1030728.JPG

[maxienterprises]

You guys are awesome! Had the servicer against the ring post .... no clear line, no payment, which he agreed. He disagreed that it was common for companies to carry 200' of cable -- whatever. I told him I was very concerned about jetting the line, which was not cleared, and having it back up in the basement. That's when he rushed to defend his practice, and ended up saying "no clear line, no payment." I'm off to meet him! Will report back upon my return!!! Thanks, guys!!!

[All Clear Sewer]

I hope it works out for you either way.;)

I dont know about the "no clear line, no payment thing" As some lines may be broken and not be able to clear but I feel that a drain specialist could prove that, that was the problem. I can always poke a hole in any blockage one way or the other to drain off the sludge so I can run the video inspection.

As far as extra cable I think he`s nuts. http://dragboatalley.com/ubb/graemlins/bsflag.gif

Hey if he cant do it let me know I`m at the shop testing today and would love a road trip $$$$$$$ http://dragboatalley.com/ubb/graemlins/shots.gif :D

[freddy]

I only carry 135 to 150 feet of cable for my 1500 machine or k-60 on the truck, Very seldom have to run much over that. Should be cleanout at every 100 feet.
My price to clean drain 3 x as much +++
I think if the man jets the line and camera the drain< what ever he finds will put you (homeowner) closer to making the proper repair needed and that is worth the money he charging you. stop trying to beat the man out of the money he is due. If your not happy with his service don't call him back.

[maxienterprises]

Hey, Freddy, I'm not trying to beat the man out of money . . . the proposal is what he offered, not what I insisted. That's not my MOA!

Yes, I have heard that there should be a clean out every 100'. Remember, this building was built in the early '50's, so an exhaustive search resulted in no cleanout. We theorized that when they poured the courtyard, some idiot buried the clean out. All we could think of. Therefore, no way to enter the line mid-way.

I realized that it was going to be whatever it was, and had mentally prepared for that. I also know that ultimately the property owner is going to be stuck with whatever the cost is to clean out or repair (or replace) the sewer lines. Impossible to place blame on the innocent contractor or worker for something that happens. Never have, and never would.

Well, All Sewer, back after an EXHAUSTING day with the sewer guy. We met at about 11:15 PST, only to discover, after he had set everything up, that his jetter was leaking fuel. He took a trip to a repair shop and we met again around 1:30. He jetted and ran his camera for 2 hours -- said he got to the city's main line with the jet, but the camera would only go about 110' or so before he was stuck. He tried, tried, tried. He was very frustrated, and he said he had never seen anything like it.

A quick call to his boss and he was advised to tape the camera about 3' down the jetter hose to see what's up, which he did. Interestingly enough, the camera had previously shown (after his first jetting attempt)the sewage sitting in animated suspension, like it was in some type of gel! He was puzzled, and I, of course, didn't know what to expect. As long as the jets were shooting, the sewage moved; once the jets stopped, so did the movement of the sewage.

I asked him what should be happening and what the camera should be showing. He said that by this time he should be able to see pipe and/or movement of the sewage as he flushed the line. Neither was happening. He said that in all of his 10+ years in the biz, never seen it.

Both he and his boss are coming back tomorrow morning at 8:30 a.m. to take another go at it. He had me call the city and tell them that there seemed to be a blockage or something in the main line, because when he took the manhole off, the main line was full and he was puzzled about that. No response yet from the city.

Okay, what should I expect, and what should I be asking them or requesting them to do??? He was pretty frustrated and physically tired, pulling and pushing the hose back and forth. Why would the camera show literally no movement in the line (like it was in gel or something). He said it was very tough to push the camera through, but the jetter went all the way, all 200' of it, without the camera attached.

As always, I appreciate any comments or help. Thanks!

[maxienterprises]

By the way, All Sewer, you may need to put your truck on the road! ;) Sunny today in Seattle, but our legendary rain will be here tomorrow! Should make for an interesting morning with the sewer guys!!!

[BHD]

IN the town my son lives in, had a similar type of blockage, (lucky it was in the towns mains, but it flooded his yard and neighbors with sewage,

they ran a snake in and finally attached a short section auger flighting on the end of the cable, and would screw it into the plug, (this as a massive grease plug) and would just pull it back out in short sections, until they got it cleared, (they were working in a man hole so there were no elbows to work around),

[PLUMBER RICK]

Well, All Sewer, back after an EXHAUSTING day with the sewer guy. We met at about 11:15 PST, only to discover, after he had set everything up, that his jetter was leaking fuel. He took a trip to a repair shop and we met again around 1:30. He jetted and ran his camera for 2 hours -- said he got to the city's main line with the jet, but the camera would only go about 110' or so before he was stuck. He tried, tried, tried. He was very frustrated, and he said he had never seen anything like it.

A quick call to his boss and he was advised to tape the camera about 3' down the jetter hose to see what's up, which he did. Interestingly enough, the camera had previously shown (after his first jetting attempt)the sewage sitting in animated suspension, like it was in some type of gel! He was puzzled, and I, of course, didn't know what to expect. As long as the jets were shooting, the sewage moved; once the jets stopped, so did the movement of the sewage.

I asked him what should be happening and what the camera should be showing. He said that by this time he should be able to see pipe and/or movement of the sewage as he flushed the line. Neither was happening. He said that in all of his 10+ years in the biz, never seen it.

Both he and his boss are coming back tomorrow morning at 8:30 a.m. to take another go at it. He had me call the city and tell them that there seemed to be a blockage or something in the main line, because when he took the manhole off, the main line was full and he was puzzled about that. No response yet from the city.

Okay, what should I expect, and what should I be asking them or requesting them to do??? He was pretty frustrated and physically tired, pulling and pushing the hose back and forth. Why would the camera show literally no movement in the line (like it was in gel or something). He said it was very tough to push the camera through, but the jetter went all the way, all 200' of it, without the camera attached.

As always, I appreciate any comments or help. Thanks!

max, very simple, if the manhole has standing sludge and waste in it, the city main is blocked or restricted. by this time the plumber/ tech:confused: should know what the total distance is to city saddle connection. if he put his camera into the line 110', he should have marked that spot and determined if he was in the city common main or approx. how much further he needed.

i've had my share of city main stoppages. not to difficult to tell when it's a city issue.

as far as his jetter goes. if it had a fuel leak, it's probably not a machine that is well maintained. also 200' of jetter hose is typically not on a large scale machine. is this a trailer jetter or a jetter on a cart? do you know the specs? gallons per minute, psi? just like the proper snake, the proper jetter will make the difference between failure and success:)

every tricky job needs to be sized up. this one sounds like lack of experience and true plumbing knowledge:eek:.

rick.

[PLUMBER RICK]

I would love to see a jetter do what I can do with a K-7500 :D



this one was jetted before I showed up to save the day :D


all clear, since i speak from real experience and not third party info, i can honestly say that with the proper jetter and proper nozzle, the k-7500 is not anywhere in the same class as the proper jetter.

owning more than a dozen large scale snakes and jetters. the k-7500 does an excellent job on roots.:)

the issue is the jetter i have will do a better and more thorough? job than the k-7500.

here is a short list of reasons.

a snake and cable is only as good as the cutter sized to the pipe. try to run a 4'' cutter inside of a 4'' pipe. try to scrape clean a 6'' pipe from a 4'' clean out with 4'' piping for the first 50'.

try to clean small short hair roots. you are only going to grab and cut large roots. the small roots are like try to garb a person with a crew cut. a pony tail is easy to grab.

try to push out with any cutting power 200-400'. try cleaning a line that is 50-75' lower in elevation than the clean out.

try to clean sludge, sand , grease.

not trying to give you a hard time. but in my 30+ years of doing plumbing and drain cleaning. there is not a new tool or piece of equipment that i don't own or haven't tried.

my jetter does a better job than any of my machines. i only use it when i need to. the cable machines do a great job. the jetter does an even better job. especially on the hard, non traditional jobs.

i am the first to praise the k-7500, but you ain't seen nothing till you've seen a real jetter, not a toy jetter.

look up a "harben" or "us jetting" machine. there is a reason why they cost 10 times more than a k-7500. also look up a "wharthog" nozzle. another reason why it's a thousand dollars and not a 6 dollar blade. good tools cost, good money. bigger, better tools cost even more.

just setting the record straight.

rick.

p.s sorry max for the twist on your sewer problem. the right tool with the right plumber, and the job is easier than what you've gone through.

[All Clear Sewer]

Sounds to me like the City Main is blocked if the man-hole has standing water in it. Call the city yourself and have them come out before the sewer guy`s shows up. The water level in the man-hole should be blocking at least 3/4 of the sewer pipe in the bottom of the man hole if it`s blocked. Most City's will come right out if your nice to em ;)

A sewer Tech should have looked in the man-hole a long time a go if he`s had enough cable ran out to reach the city mane? Once again I don't understand why he`s trying to run a video inspection till the line is clear of waste/water? I still say if he knew what he was doing he`d run a cable out and do a locate so he`d know where he was at. That`s what I do on a problem line anyway.

Rick
I`m old School, I still believe in the cable over the jetter. I have proved to myself that I can clean a line faster then a guy with a jetter and have a cleaner line when done. Don't get me wrong, I have seen times where my cutter passed small roots that I had to go back and cut but a jetter will do the same thing. If you ask me, there`s no better way to cut roots then with a cable. Sludge, soap and crud is something a jetter could do but most of the time roots caused the build-up in a main line.

I have a jetter but it`s to nice to put in a sewer :eek:
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4213ScreenHunter_002.jpg

[maxienterprises]

Just wanted to post my final thread on this previous posting, as a courteous way to thank you guys for all of your help.

Friday 3/30, the drain specialist showed up with his boss, who had 20+ yrs in the biz. First analysis: needed a longer hose (didn't you say that??). Added line to the jetter and was then able to REALLY go all the way to the city's main sewer. Apparently the sewer that had standing water was not a sewer line at all, but an overflow (?) line for water. After jetting and re-running the camera, the drain was running free. Final diagnosis: a dropped sewer line on my property, right at the curb where the city was planting the new trees :rolleyes: .

RE: the cleanouts, the boss had brought the city's sewer maps, and there was never an additional cleanout installed. He recommended, obviously, that we add one at the time we repaired the dropped line.

Bottom line: sewer is running free and clear, today. They recommended annual clean-outs until we install the new line.

Thank you, professionals, for your free help. It sure aided greatly in my conversation with local professionals to ensure I not only received the best service, but that I also was talked to like I was intelligent about the issue (which I became due soley to your free mentoring). Much gratitude!:)