gas leak

[garager]

Went to my mom and dad house yesterday and smelled gas. For about the last 6 or 7 months every now and then you can smell the natural gas. For the 3rd time I have gone over every fittings from outside, under the house and inside with soap water, cannot find this leak for nothing. The city crew for gas has been there twice and did the same trick and no success either. She has hot water, furnace, and stove on natural gas. Furnace stack pipe and hot water are at least 2ft (separate pipes) above roof line, down draft problem, I doubt it. Now why is the city crew using soap water to check for gas leak and not a hand held gas detector, is soap water still better than those devices? I have check all connection on stove and oven, this is a very elusive gas leak. Carbon monoxide detector does not sound off. Its winter time, so house is all closed up, so if main gas line outside is leaking it should not be getting into the house. I'm sure theres a few of you who have run into a chase with gas leaks, any helpful hints here.

[drtyhands]

garager,
wow, wait till the forum gets a sniff of this.Gas leak at you mom's house for months.

Hey,more than once I've seen internal mechanisms on equipment leak making the soapy water a little tough to use.

The mechanical sniffers are the only way to go.You can actually buy one for under 200.00:)

[PLUMBER RICK]

garager,
wow, wait till the forum gets a sniff of this.Gas leak at you mom's house for months.

Hey,more than once I've seen internal mechanisms on equipment leak making the soapy water a little tough to use.

The mechanical sniffers are the only way to go.You can actually buy one for under 200.00:)

true, you can buy them for under $200. the problem is that the soap test is better and will locate the leak faster than this sniffer. actually the sniffer is tuned into all combustible gases. the 1 advantage this sniffer has is to sniff into closed walls. drill a 3/4'' hole and place it at the top of the stud bay. soap will need all joints exposed.

the gas co. should be able to actually read the air contents in the room. they should be able to rule out or rule in an actual gas odor. my sniffer is only good at picking up leaks at the actual leak. not in the room.

natural gas is combustible between 4-14% gas to air ratio. i assume that with the smell coming and going, it has to do with an outside leak working its way into the house. an inside leak should be present to any person coming into the house from outside. people that are exposed to a gas smell for more than a 15 minutes will no longer smell the gas. an outside person will have a fresh whiff of gas when entering.

have the gas co. retest with the proper sniffer.

rick.

[plumbdog10]

Are they using a gas furnance?

[oldslowchevy]

She has hot water, furnace, and stove on natural gas.





i would have to say .....yes

[wbrooks]

If the gas co does not bring in the right equipment call your local fire department, they have the right equipment and will force the gas company to do the job right

[Josh]

My father-in-law checks for gas leaks with a match. :o really I'm serious. I have always been able to locate gas leaks by nose. My dad had a leak at their house that he looked for for a really long time. I tracked it down and confirmed with soap and water. :D

[BHD]

Check the gas valves, and the pilot light tubing and fittings,

Had a leak similar in a new furnace one time, looked for it for over a year on and off, had bought a gas room detector even (it never went off), but could smell it from time to time.
Finally found it on the gas valve, where the pilot fitting was.

[Woussko]

Maybe a good dog or two can help you find it. They have some REAL sniffers.:o

[plumbdog10]

The reason I asked about the furnance (which oldslowchevy answered, and he seems to be following me at this point) is that the you mentioned that a gas smell was there on certain occasions. This is often the result of furnace problems.

Brook's advice to call the fire department is wrongheaded, because their response will be to shut the gas off, call the gas company, who will then tell you to call a plumber.

Which in my opinion what you should do.

[Buckeyetech]

In Ohio and I'm guessing, all states both the gas company and fire department will shut off the gas. The difference being, the gas company will lock and block the meter. Then you'll have to find and repair the leak yourself or have a contractor do it. Then the gas company will come back out, test for leaks again and if none are found, they will unlock the meter. They may use a sniffer, they may shut everything down and use the meter itself as a means to determine if there is a leak. The reason they lock and block the meter is they don't want any raw gas into the house.


Buckeyetech

[plumbdog10]

In Ohio and I'm guessing, all states both the gas company and fire department will shut off the gas. The difference being, the gas company will lock and block the meter. Then you'll have to find and repair the leak yourself or have a contractor do it. Then the gas company will come back out, test for leaks again and if none are found, they will unlock the meter. They may use a sniffer, they may shut everything down and use the meter itself as a means to determine if there is a leak. The reason they lock and block the meter is they don't want any raw gas into the house.


Buckeyetech

My experience in Southern California is that the Gas company will not turn the gas back on until the local building department has approved the repair. That would be because repairs require a plumbing permit and inspection.

But, you are responding from Ohio, which is probably different.

[garager]

Even though the stack pipes are 2' above the roof line, could they be getting down draft. As far as the furnace goes, the smell started just before the heating season, though I did soap test the furnace as soon as the first smell happened. My mom is getting tired of it, because you can't smell it but once in a blue moon its hard to chase, so she think it's the hot water heater. This is what her nose is telling her, so I asked her what does she want me to do. She wants a tankless hot water heater, ok I guess I'll putting one in soon and hopefully this is the problem solver, kind of expensive problem solver. So I'll be heading to the stores and see what they have to offer.

[plumbdog10]

Even though the stack pipes are 2' above the roof line, could they be getting down draft. As far as the furnace goes, the smell started just before the heating season, though I did soap test the furnace as soon as the first smell happened. My mom is getting tired of it, because you can't smell it but once in a blue moon its hard to chase, so she think it's the hot water heater. This is what her nose is telling her, so I asked her what does she want me to do. She wants a tankless hot water heater, ok I guess I'll putting one in soon and hopefully this is the problem solver, kind of expensive problem solver. So I'll be heading to the stores and see what they have to offer.

Garager,

You really need to get a handle on this situation, because it is dangerous. Since you don't seem to want to hire a plumber, which would be my first suggestion, I would advise the following:

1) Disconnect the gas connections to all of the fixtures and appliences. Also disconnect the meter. Cap each of these branches.

2) Using air pump the system up to 15psi.

3) If the pressure holds you have a problem with an appliance. You can then play around with connecting each appliance indivudally until you find the problem. WARNING: DO NOT APPLY THE 15 PSI AIR PRESSURE WHEN THE FIXTURES ARE CONNECTED, YOU WILL DAMAGE THE REGULATORS.

4) If the system drops, you have a problem in your piping system. Soap all the acessible joints with the 15psi. If you can't find it, you're probably looking at a search and destroy mission into the walls.

Normally I don't give advice to non-plumbers, but I dread the thought of seeing your mother end up on the afternoon news as the victom of a tragic situation.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Garager,

You really need to get a handle on this situation, because it is dangerous. Since you don't seem to want to hire a plumber, which would be my first suggestion, I would advise the following:

1) Disconnect the gas connections to all of the fixtures and appliences. Also disconnect the meter. Cap each of these branches.

2) Using air pump the system up to 15psi.

3) If the pressure holds you have a problem with an appliance. You can then play around with connecting each appliance indivudally until you find the problem. WARNING: DO NOT APPLY THE 15 PSI AIR PRESSURE WHEN THE FIXTURES ARE CONNECTED, YOU WILL DAMAGE THE REGULATORS.

4) If the system drops, you have a problem in your piping system. Soap all the acessible joints with the 15psi. If you can't find it, you're probably looking at a search and destroy mission into the walls.

Normally I don't give advice to non-plumbers, but I dread the thought of seeing your mother end up on the afternoon news as the victom of a tragic situation.

that's the good old dog:D

follow the dog's advice. it's very accurate.

i guess since he has an ugly avatar:eek:

he has to look and act pretty:D

now for that tankless water heater. DON'T DO IT:eek:

look up all of the old post on tankless heaters for a long list of drawbacks.

rick.

good job dog:)

[Gofor]

I am not a plumber. We had a similar problem at a place I used to work at. The gas smell was coming from the outside pressure regulator. I do not know if it was leaking or venting from overpressure, but when the wind was out of the south (in our situation, as this was where the regulator was on the acft hangar), the smell was so bad inside we shut down the hangar until the fire dept and plumbers had checked it out. Final fix was replacing the regulator. This was after they found several leaks outside with the soap/water test method and had repaired them also.
My point is that if is is an intermittent problem, it could be an outside problem that is getting blown inside due to wind direction, etc.

Just an observation
Go

[oldslowchevy]

garager as much disagreement me and dog might be having i would have to say he is 100% right on this, he knows his job and knows it well so please listen to him on this.

[plumbdog10]

garager as much disagreement me and dog might be having i would have to say he is 100% right on this, he knows his job and knows it well so please listen to him on this.

Thanks for the compliment chevy, but if I'm ever down south, which I don't plan happening (I saw "Deliverence"), I'm taking you up on your offer.

We could kick each other's asses around for a while, then become friends over a case or two of beer. And you know what?....I really think we could be friends.

[PLUMBER RICK]

make it root beer and i'll join you all:D

rick.

[oldslowchevy]

Thanks for the compliment chevy, but if I'm ever down south, which I don't plan happening (I saw "Deliverence"), I'm taking you up on your offer.

We could kick each other's asses around for a while, then become friends over a case or two of beer. And you know what?....I really think we could be friends.



aww i would rather for go the whole butt kicking thing and i know i will pass on any "deliverence" moments and i thought that was filmed in west virgina?i might be wrong on that.... ohh great now you have my mind wanting to know and now i will have to research it. grrrrrrrrrrr. oh and my name never has been nor ever will be nead batey(i know i know learn to spell i know) and only 2 cases? dang man you can stay longer than an hour cant you?lol peace.

[oldslowchevy]

no that is ned beaty and it was filmed on the chattooga river in georgia.

[Residential Plumbing]

Next time you smell the gas, check the vent on your gas meter.

[TOPDAWG]

I had a problem like this a few weeks back on a new construction job. It turned out to be the burner tube coming out of the gas valve on the water heater and would only happen when the water heater was in use.
Small leak, might want to give it a look.

[NHMaster3015]

This has been a discussion that I find hard to believe was ever brought up it the first place. Gas goes boom. You smell gas, you call the gas company. You don't screw around with it and ask questions online. YOU CALL THE GAS COMPANY before the whole damn house heads for the sky.

[metx]

Gas company will shut you off. call a plumber . what i do is if the line is leaking i change from the meter to all fixture .

[NHMaster3015]

Gas company will shut you off. call a plumber . what i do is if the line is leaking i change from the meter to all fixture .

NO YOU CALL THE GAS COMPANY. Its a liability issue. They will send out a service tech to fix the leak.

[cpw]

Gas company will shut you off. call a plumber . what i do is if the line is leaking i change from the meter to all fixture .

NO YOU CALL THE GAS COMPANY. Its a liability issue. They will send out a service tech to fix the leak.
Another related but not quite the same question. Let's say your CO detector goes off. AFTER getting out of the house who do you call. The fire department or your oil company? I think on the package it says to call the FD, but what can they do?

[fishon4me]

I agree with the person that mentioned the regulator, the vent is for relieving pressure. I didn't catch if the meter and regulator were outside but the vent should be run to the outside. I can't imagine that the gas company douldn't suggest that as I work for the gas company

[HVAC HAWK]

Another related but not quite the same question. Let's say your CO detector goes off. AFTER getting out of the house who do you call. The fire department or your oil company? I think on the package it says to call the FD, but what can they do?

out here a lot of people call 911 and get the fire department and we have all kinds of meters and then the FD will have the dispatcher call the gas co and they will respond faster for them then a home owner :eek:

the FD gets there faster and can shut off the gas and vent the house .

out here the gas co will look and fix a gas leak but they cost a lot of $ so people will call a HVAC co to do the work ,and if the gas co puts a lock on the meter the HVAC contractor has a key for the lock and can take it off then have the gas co come back to check the work . to get a key you have to go to a class from the gas co first

but i'd say if you checked and the gas co checked the lines then it must be a vent . there are times when the gas burns a red flame and not blue ,there is something with the gas and you will get a smell like gas .

[Herk]

There are so many places where gas can leak . . .

The meter vent sounds most likely to me - I smell gas all the time from the neighbors when the air is heavy. And that may be a clue to when you're smelling gas.

Another place is worn-out valves on a stove - the little ones beneath the knobs.

Ground-joint gas valves are a very common leaker - usually tightening the nut will solve it.

I like the liquid leak detector better than soap.

[DuckButter]

Old thread..WOW!
I think whether you call the gas co or a plumber may depend on your juurisdiction.
Bottom line, I saw it mentioned that someone waited a year as they slowly tried to sniff it out...

NOT looking for an argument or debate, but here's one reason why thats a VERY bad idea.

Lets say you have a Sears sub come in and install a new stove, he pulls out the old stove without realizing it's hard piped, or the flex is too short and tweaks the 90 under the floor.
4 months later your in the basement and you notice the smell, its only a faint odor, so after a few minutes of looking around you decide you'll get to it another time.
Turns out that faint odor was a thick pocket of gas that has congregated inside the wall & floor from that 90 4 months back...there's an old light switch in the same wall for a storage room you seldom go into.

Along comes December, time to get the ornaments out of that storage room in the basement, you flick on the light and just like NHMaster says..."BOOM".

[Service Guy]

Which is one reason why I don't even mess with gas...too much liability for me.
The most I'll do is an appliance changeout. But even then you have to be careful, like the stove example above.

[metx]

You sound mad .Here in NewYork city the gas co.shuts down that is it .then the homeowner has to call someone ..now if you are a old lady yes call the gas or fire dept to shut down no gas leak <but problem is not fixed ..

[NHMaster3015]

I'm at a loss here. Is there a problem with the gas company shutting it down. Like before it blows up.?

[Hondahead]

Natural gas is one of safest and cleanest fuels available. Propane is significantly different from Natural gas. Most people don’t realize or understand the difference. Propane C3H8 has a higher specific gravity (1.5X heavier than air) Natural Gas CH4 has a lower specific gravity (0.6X lighter than air) The difference between a gas leak involving Propane and a gas leak involving Natural gas are significant. Propane has a tendency to pool or collect in pockets and low areas. Natural gas, on the other hand, dissipates quickly in an upward movement. Natural gas, when exposed to normal air flow disperses quickly and rarely reaches a combustible air/fuel ratio. Propane tends to sit, undisturbed and will remain volatile for sometime. Propane also has a lower ignition temperature, about 950F, Natural Gas about 1200F. Natural gas calorific value is 1000 btu/cuft, Propane 2500 btu/cuft. There's alot more "boom" from a cuft of Propane. So, in conclusion, a house with the roof blown off = Natural gas, a house blown off the foundation = Propane :D

[BHD]

I had a good one a few months ago,

We installed a new gas range about 2 years ago, and about 6 months ago I could smell some propane whiff ever now after or when it was being used.

So I shut off the gas to the range as I did not have time to check it out at that moment, (wife was gone for a few days), so when I did get the sniffer out and my soap bubbles the sniffer would go nuts when I placed it under the top of the stove, but I would soap the fittings and the valves and could not locate a leak,

But in working on it, the burner was a (actually three piece unit), the orifice was under a mixing venturi and the burner unit sets on top of the venturi with slots in it, making a complete burner unit.

The burner top has a decorative piece on top of it and is held on with a hidden bolt that is attached to the under of the decorative covers,
what had happened was the nut had come lose and dropped down into the venturi, partly plugging the air flow allowing gas to escape out under the burner, when it was used,

since it was blocking both Air flow and gas flow the burner appeared to be working properly,

Removed the nut and reattached it to the bolt and tightened it up good, (and the other burners as well most were loose as well), and guess what no more gas leak.

[DuckButter]

. Natural gas calorific value is 1000 btu/cuft, Propane 2500 btu/cuft. There's alot more "boom" from a cuft of Propane. So, in conclusion, a house with the roof blown off = Natural gas, a house blown off the foundation = Propane :D


True, true, true....one thing I don't like about propane is that it comes from crude oil.
On an important note...though true that propane will gather in dark corners alot more than NG...in an enclosed space like the scenario I posted above, NG will also gather.

[westcoastplumber]

for natural gas to explode, the right gas / air mixture has to be met.

I work on natural gas and depending on how much I replace, I will do either a soap test or a pressure test (10 psi for 20 mins test.)

Recently, the gas company has started locking up the meter heads when they get the leak call. fine with me, I unhook the meter and pull out the compressor, more costly for the homeowner.

we used to just pull the plug and turn the gas on and sniff it out, easier, but atleast now, the homeowner will not be turning on a leaking line after they get the estimate to repair and we leave.

[gear junkie]

a tip to find gas leaks that I learned with AC. Cover the appliance you suspect is leaking with a large garbage bag. wait a while and stick a gas detector under the bag. Then use soap to isolate the leak to a particular spot.

[NHMaster3015]

a tip to find gas leaks that I learned with AC. Cover the appliance you suspect is leaking with a large garbage bag. wait a while and stick a gas detector under the bag. Then use soap to isolate the leak to a particular spot.

Particularly helpfull on windy days