electric boilers

[Tyler S]

Hey guys I wanting to put an electric boiler in my inlaws house to run in a floor heating system. Its just to heat an addition that was biult years ago. When it was built, the do it your selfer had the brilliant Idea to run it off the hot water heater. So have you guys had any dealings with electric boilers, tell me your thoughts. We have Natrual gas but I don't really want to go that route and I know I will be sacraficing efficiency. Here is one I was looking at.
www.radiantheatproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=415054 (http://www.radiantheatproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=415054)

Thanks Tyler

[plumberscrack]

There is a reason why electric boilers haven't caught on here in the states. Not really a very durable appliance in my opinion besides natural gas is waaay less expensive.

Electric boilers are more common in Europe maybe some of our members from there could chime in on this.

And no you will not be sacrificing efficiency, electric boilers apply 100% of energy to the heating elements. (Am I right on this Woussko?:confused: ) but to make electricity you need to mine uranium, burn coal, natural gas, diesel or some other form of fossil fuel.

Space heating off a water heater is getting more common and a great idea if its done properly. I'm guessing it's connected to a electric water heater though that wasn't clear in your post. Electric boiler may be the quick easy solution right now but may hurt the inlaws with high heating costs down the road.

Depending on the square footage and the heating medium (tile, concrete, wood, carpet) maybe a small high eff. gas boiler or tankless water heater if there is space restrictions isolated from domestic water would be a better choice. If the piping is already in place and adequate gas supply available nearby its a no brainer to me.

Whats everyone else have to say?

[Tyler S]

I don't really need to know how to install one I'm already pretty nolagable in that area. I just don't know about the reliablity of an electric boiler. All the piping is there complete with a plate heat exchanger, diaphram tank, psv, pumps, etc. I am under no circumstance using a demestic hot water heater or even a instantanious hot water heater. Thats not what there designed for and thats whats there right now.I don't want to use natural gas for the simple reason I don't have a lot of space to work with and I'm prety well maxed with the half inch line thats already there, and I'm not up for running a bigger one or another one. I don't want this to turn in to a big job. I would just like to know if anyone knows of a farily good electric boiler. I need around 40,000 Btu. Sorry that I wasn't more clear before.
Tyler

[plumbdog10]

Hey guys I wanting to put an electric boiler in my inlaws house to run in a floor heating system. Its just to heat an addition that was biult years ago. When it was built, the do it your selfer had the brilliant Idea to run it off the hot water heater. So have you guys had any dealings with electric boilers, tell me your thoughts. We have Natrual gas but I don't really want to go that route and I know I will be sacraficing efficiency. Here is one I was looking at.
www.radiantheatproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=415054 (http://www.radiantheatproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=415054)

Thanks Tyler

Obviously you hate your in-laws, because installing an electric boiler when gas is available in insane, unless it's like I think it is, which is they expect you to do all this for free. At which point the easy installation for you is electric. I would agree completly with you on that.

[plumberscrack]

I am under no circumstance using a demestic hot water heater or even a instantanious hot water heater. Thats not what there designed for and thats whats there right now.I don't want to use natural gas.
Tyler

Ok OK I got it. You want an electric boiler. :p I have zero expierence with those, my bad. I should have been more clear about the products I was refering to.

Bradford White Combicor heater does space heating and domestic all in one.
http://www.bradfordwhite.com/products2.asp?id=13&product_id=92

For the tankless (not to be confused with instantaneous) heater was thinking Rinnai.
http://www.foreverhotwater.com/
Some models are approved for space heating but this won't work with your 1/2" gas line.:(

[Hondahead]

Tyler

Reliability isn’t the issue; it’s the extra energy consumption you should be considering. Natural gas is considerably cheaper and with the provincial rebate program the cost is regulated. Also, as part of the clean air initiative the provincial government is offering a rebate of up to $1500 towards the installation of a high efficiency gas heating appliance.

If you were indeed knowledgeable in heating installations you wouldn’t even be considering an electric boiler. Do you have your Hydronics Certification?

What do you have against the use of a conventional water heater? Why not just replace the existing water heater with a high efficient and let the government foot the majority of the bill? Now this will make you popular with the in-laws, doubling there annual heating costs most certainly will not.

[Woussko]

Questions for Tyler

What type of heating system is in the rest of this house? What is the energy source for it? What is the capacity of your electrical service?

Here's what I'm getting at: If you really need 40,000 BTU/Hour of heat, that's going to take almost 12,000 Watts. On a single phase 240 circuit, you'll need to have the circuit rated at 60 Amps (and that's pushing things). and will draw 50. Are you ready to this additional electrical load?

Please really think all of this through.

[Tyler S]

Honda Head no I just have the basic hydronics courses through nait. I had know Idea that the government offered that. How do I look in to that? I was wrong about the 40,000 btus, I said that before I did a heat loss and its more like 22,000btu. Oops guess I shouldn't have guessed. The rest of the house is forced air. I guess I could run a 3/4inch line in there.

[Tyler S]

Questions for Tyler

What type of heating system is in the rest of this house? What is the energy source for it? What is the capacity of your electrical service?

Here's what I'm getting at: If you really need 40,000 BTU/Hour of heat, that's going to take almost 12,000 Watts. On a single phase 240 circuit, you'll need to have the circuit rated at 60 Amps (and that's pushing things). and will draw 50. Are you ready to this additional electrical load?

Please really think all of this through.

Forced air and Natural Gas sounds better and better!!

[Hondahead]

Tyler, here in Alberta we have the CSA B214-01 Installation Code for Hydronic Heating Systems which is the regulatory authority for ensuring sound installation practices with heating installations.

N.A.I.T. has had a course in place for a couple years now. LOOK HERE (http://www.nait.ca/pipetrades/certification.htm)

Are you a journeyman? If so, when did you finish? Who taught heating when you were at N.A.I.T. Rodger Ferrari, Rob Solei ... ?

[plumberscrack]

Tyler

Why not just replace the existing water heater with a high efficient and let the government foot the majority of the bill?

Excellent advice Hondahead

No need to upgrade gas line or add forced air. You have radiant floor heating nothing is more comfortable when its cold outside:D

[Tyler S]

Honda Head
Right now I'm a forth year. I hope to go back in January for the last time. I had both Rob for first, Roger for second and Rob and Roger for third. Roger was telling me that Nait was going to be offering a hydronic designer course soon.(I wonder if its the same one you were mentioning) There trying to make it so you can do all or most of it at home. So I might go for that after.

So what do you think I should do..... I don't really have a hole lot of room and I would rather stay away from heating with hot water tanks. There is a
33gal there right now and it can't keep up. They use alot of hot water in the mornings. So there for the hot water get cool and then gets pumped through the floor, which cooles it down and takes all day to heat back up again.
Combie boiler doesnt sound too bad now. What do you suggest for the least amount $$. I will run another gas line if needed its not that far.

I was just trying to take an easy way out that turned out not to be so easy. I guess thats what you get. I didn't think it would take that much power to heat and thats the last thing I want to do is cost them more a month in heating. So thanks for steering me away from that.

Tyler

[Tyler S]

Tyler, here in Alberta we have the CSA B214-01 Installation Code for Hydronic Heating Systems which is the regulatory authority for ensuring sound installation practices with heating installations.

N.A.I.T. has had a course in place for a couple years now. LOOK HERE (http://www.nait.ca/pipetrades/certification.htm)

Are you a journeyman? If so, when did you finish? Who taught heating when you were at N.A.I.T. Rodger Ferrari, Rob Solei ... ?



Yea I think that is the same course that told me about. Except it was more like $2000

[Tyler S]

Excellent advice Hondahead

No need to upgrade gas line or add forced air. You have radiant floor heating nothing is more comfortable when its cold outside:D


I'm not replacing the in floor with forced air The house has BOTH. The main heat sorce is the forced air. The little addition is 240sq ft that doesn't even need the in floor, its exactly that a comfort thing. The only reason I would increase the gas line size is because it would be to small to run several units. But it turns out that I would only have to replace a small section if that was the case.
Tyler

[drtyhands]

When you say a whole lot of room,what kind of dimensions do you have to work with,espescially door casing.

[Tyler S]

The room is about 3w x 5d x 7h. The door is a standard door but opens in. Then there is a crawl space behind the furnaces and hot water tank thats about 3 ft high. But you would have to pretty much crawl to get there with a completely different access.

[drtyhands]

The room is about 3w x 5d x 7h. The door is a standard door but opens in. Then there is a crawl space behind the furnaces and hot water tank thats about 3 ft high. But you would have to pretty much crawl to get there with a completely different access.

So does this mean that worst case scenario you have to disassemble some duct work and manhandle a larger water heater into place or will it just not fit at all?

[plumberscrack]

Then there is a crawl space behind the furnaces and hot water tank thats about 3 ft high.

3' foot high crawlspace??:confused: You can practically standup in there. Can't remember the last time I was in one that high.:rolleyes:

[Tyler S]

Ok I found one that will work, its a N\G combie boiler thats 90% efficient. Its a 50 gal and it will recover 92 gal per hour. They listed it for $3000 and they will give it to me for $1750. Sounds like not to bad of an idea. So I will just take out the old hot water tank and put this one in its place.
Tyler

[Tyler S]

3' foot high crawlspace??:confused: You can practically standup in there. Can't remember the last time I was in one that high.:rolleyes:


I didn't say I couldn't fit in it or work for that matter. I just can't really see fitting another 30 gal hot water tankin there. But thanks for your imput.
Tyler

[Tyler S]

So does this mean that worst case scenario you have to disassemble some duct work and manhandle a larger water heater into place or will it just not fit at all?


Yes I have a little more room if I shuffle it around and take the old one out. Tieing into the single wall vent would also be do able. But what I'm going to do since this new one is high efficient. I'm going to run horizontaly through the wall and use an old storm drain that is no longer in use to go through the wall there. I was trying to stay away from using hot water heaters for heating because thats what I was always told. Now if thats right or wrong I don't know, but just what I was told.
Thanks Tyler