Slam this

[gdavis62]

This might be my guide for doing undersink plumbing. It's a pic from an article by Rex Cauldwell, author and master plumber and master electrician.

The pic is fuzzy, but he is showing everything in 1.5" schedule 40, the p-trap then going into 2" drain.

No vent, but an AAV can be placed where the cleanout is shown above the flex combo at the base.

Your comments, as always, are certainly welcome. No trolls, please.

[freddy]

Why not just buy a center outlet waste in a box. Drop that into p- trap and on into your san-tee fittining, with air vent on top of san-tee. Bottom of tee to drain. Saw your post on contractor forum. Why did you change your name?
We are just trying to help you complete this project so we can help the next guy in need. :) Freddy

[gdavis62]

How about a link to a "center outlet waste in a box?"

Does it have an easy way to patch in the drain from the DW?

Sounds like what we'll be using in the boiler room for the hydronic heating package: "boiler room control board," or "boiler room in a box." Shop-made, boiler loop, and high temp and low temp loops, controls, etc.

Name? I wanted something spiffy, not generic. Sorta like "Plumbdog," or "Plumberscrack."

[BHD]

The purpose of the drawing in your post was for a specific reason, and it was stated in the article the picture was with, TO MAXIMIZE STORAGE SPACE.

Better Undersink Plumbing
Throw away the traditional P-trap to minimize leaks and maximize storage space
by Rex Cauldwell
Traditional undersink plumbing layouts leave little room for storage and often put pipes at risk of damage from inadvertent bumps and bangs. Veteran plumber Rex Cauldwell has come up with a better way to arrange undersink plumbing: He gets rid of the traditional P-trap and moves the plumbing to the rear cabinet wall under the sink. Using an assortment of well-designed plumbing parts, Cauldwell is able to create a system that drains faster and offers more storage space beneath the sink.
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/better-undersink-plumbing.aspx?ac=ts&ra=fp


~~~~~~~~~~~~

pictures are of a "center outlet waste" and in "a box", is the box that it comes in as a complete unit,

[gear junkie]

I own 3 of Rex's books and they're great. I use close to the same setup.

[ToUtahNow]

Of course his design means nothing if you want a garbage disposal.

Mark

[gear junkie]

Of course his design means nothing if you want a garbage disposal.

Mark
Get his book, they sell them at home depot in the contractor service section. He does address this issue.

[Aaron91]

I'm actually reading his book right now, and just skimmed over this section. Very good book.

[ToUtahNow]

Get his book, they sell them at home depot in the contractor service section. He does address this issue.

LOL - I'm sure I am fine without his book. My point was he is maximizing under sink space but has not included a disposal. I'm not sure what part of the Country he is in but I have not seen a sink without a disposal in 20-years. In addition, unless you are doing production work you should always maximize the area under any sink.

Mark

[Gofor]

Just for info, around here in NC, no one will honor any warrantee on a septic system if a garbage disposal is installed.

Go

[gdavis62]

No disposals where we're building. All the houses have septic systems, and most are weekend or vacation places.

How do you like the way the DW drain comes in? And the block standoff for the HW and CW supply lines on R?

[gear junkie]

LOL - I'm sure I am fine without his book. My point was he is maximizing under sink space but has not included a disposal. I'm not sure what part of the Country he is in but I have not seen a sink without a disposal in 20-years. In addition, unless you are doing production work you should always maximize the area under any sink.

Mark

I think he's from either va or west va.

[plumbdog10]

Of course his design means nothing if you want a garbage disposal.

Mark

Come-on Utah,

The man is a "MASTER PLUMBER" and a "MASTER ELECTRICIAN". And, he has revolutionized the plumbing industry.

Utah, this is not a plumber, he is a plumbing GOD. Guys like us are outdated, as a matter of fact we should retire now. Rex Cauldwell is here.

But, I'm wondering how you install a disposer (as you said), and how you pass a rough in inspection in California with no gravity vent.

[PLUMBER RICK]

i don't know rex, but from the little bit of a drawing/ photo that was posted. i don't think he has plumbing 101 down.

since when can we use rubber san tees? these are things that they sell at hardware stores and are not legal here for indoor inspected work.

not knocking him, but not sure if this is a book for pros, or a do it yourself guide.

rick.

i thought we were done with this topic:confused:

[plumberscrack]

How do you like the way the DW drain comes in? And the block standoff for the HW and CW supply lines on R?

If a plumber installed that crap in my house I'd throw his a$$ out!:confused:

[PIPES]

That is "handy homeowner" crap if I ever saw it. That set up would never pass inspection here.

If you are contractor buying a book at home chepot to do plumbing , you have no clue what you are doing.
Doing homeowner stuff on your own house in one thing but, doing plumbing for someone else and getting paid for it is illegal in most states.



Hey dog, I never see rex at the monthly "PLUMBING GOD" meetings, do you?

[gdavis62]

Plumbdog10, Plumber Rick, Plumberscrack, and Pipes! The whole gang came in on cue!

I knew I'd getcha! Like inviting Michael Richards to a new comedy club.

What, exactly, do you guys contribute on this forum, other than slams and flames? Were you abused as little boys?

Since you can all type, why don't you go together on a new book to outflank Rex? Here's a working title: "All the plumbing I know, that I won't tell you about."

[PLUMBER RICK]

Plumbdog10, Plumber Rick, Plumberscrack, and Pipes! The whole gang came in on cue!

I knew I'd getcha! Like inviting Michael Richards to a new comedy club.

What, exactly, do you guys contribute on this forum, other than slams and flames? Were you abused as little boys?

Since you can all type, why don't you go together on a new book to outflank Rex? Here's a working title: "All the plumbing I know, that I won't tell you about."


gdavis, why don't you take some time and read some real post from other members besides yours.

i'm sure if you read something other than your ongoing soap box, you'll see that we provide real answers to real everyday questions.

looks to me that everyone has caught onto your joke.

if you don't like what you see or read here, then just leave.

it's time to start ignoring you if you have nothing to contribute.

rick.

[apf]

I think the systyem is pretty ........... pretty expensive , pretty time consuming , pretty unneccesary:(

[ToUtahNow]

Why in the World do you guys continue to feed this TROLL? The day I start buying “plumbing books” at Home Depot is the day I need to start looking for a new occupation. That does not mean that the average do-it-yourself guy could not pick up some points in the book but it definitely was not meant to be a technical book. The fact that gdavis62 is impressed with the book says a lot about his abilities.

Mark

[PLUMBER RICK]

mark, i just looked up the author "rex"

i sure hope that he is a better electrician than plumber.

his bio shows an electrical degree.

his plumbing photos shows handyman:eek: there was a close up photo of a 1/2'' sweat 1/4 turn straight stop. he actually used a double torch head to solder it:eek: makes for a great photo, but not something an experienced plumber would do.

when was the last time we used sweat stops, other than for tub/ shower valves:confused: never for inside of cabinets for fixtures:eek:

right up gdavise alley:D

time to ignore again:D

rick.

[ToUtahNow]

If gdavis is impressed with Rex Cauldwell he would really be impressed with Phil Campbell. Phil was the lecturer for the plumbing portion of the 40-hour course I took in Vegas for the EDDU-CODE. If you ever get a chance to read Phil's paper on SARS it will make you appreciate the plumbing codes we have here.

Mark

[PLUMBER RICK]

see what i'm talking about:D


rick.

[PLUMBER RICK]

mark, time to take our show on the road.

i'm off to panama next week. i'll try to discuss why salt water is better than fresh water to "float a boat":D
the canals locks use fresh water to operate.

i guess anyone can discuss a subject and people will listen.


i actually have a reference guide for plumbing code that is very handy and compares the 2 codes side by side.
i picked this up at h.d. a few years back and is quicker than a 400 page code book for quick reference tables.


this would be a great start for anyone doing their own work. homeowner or pro. not sure where our friend fits:rolleyes: but this guide with its illustrations is much better than the garbage he is doing now:eek:

rick.


here is the picture of the code check book.

[gear junkie]

see what i'm talking about:D


rick.

Not trying to get into the debate too much here but what the picture is showing is where you intially put the torch and then you move it, hence the 2 torches. Not trying to defend anyone here but I've noticed a difference between the east and west coast plumber's. Because it's done different then what you're used to, does that make it wrong and the person a bad plumber? And I still like Rex's book. Call me stupid or whatever but I do understand you're never to experienced to learn new things. And I do mean that w/ respect to everyone.

[smelly]

since my knees are bad, and my back is weak, I dont think we should put anything under the sink ,:D

[ToUtahNow]

I figure the stops are straight stops which were made up elsewhere then dropped through the floor.

As for the Code Check book I guess there is a use for it but I prefer the actual Code books. On my truck I have both the UPC and the UMC on CDs (UPC from 47 - 06) and the IPC and IMC in binders. Because I refer to them so often it does not take long to find what I am looking for.

Mark

[apf]

since my knees are bad, and my back is weak, I dont think we should put anything under the sink ,:D
Three cheers for Smelly

[plumbdog10]

I say keep posting, because it gives us construction workers a chance to show what idiots most engineers are.

If there are doubts: review his posts. I spotted his lack of ability a mile away. So did Rick and Bob D.

[gdavis62]

Thanks for the lead on that "Code Check" plumbing book. I placed an order with Amazon for a slightly used copy of the latest revision of it.

My nearest Depot is a 2.5 hour trip from here, with an expensive ferry ride enroute, so mail order makes sense.

[nervous]

Does anyone know if there is a clearer version of this pic available anywhere other than the subscription site. It's pretty self explanatory I'd guess but I'd like to see the details and the text.

Thanks

[westcoastplumber]

This might be my guide for doing undersink plumbing. It's a pic from an article by Rex Cauldwell, author and master plumber and master electrician.

The pic is fuzzy, but he is showing everything in 1.5" schedule 40, the p-trap then going into 2" drain.

No vent, but an AAV can be placed where the cleanout is shown above the flex combo at the base.

Your comments, as always, are certainly welcome. No trolls, please.

this set up is illegal in many ways according to the upc code book. someone had mentioned to use a center outlet setup, if I recall, center outlets are not allowed because they have no baffel in them like an end outlet does, which gives the waste direction. I took a code class on the 2003 code book for 11 months and this was a discussion. Also the use of branch tailpieces to hook up d/w right to the t/p, illegal because of an approved "air gap", to prevent cross contamination. not sure if this helps, but I thought it would be interesting since we were talking about under the k/s :)

[Crappy days]

I would not plumb it this way either. As far as as having septic, I grew in Newport Rhode Island. Every home I can remember had garbage disposals including those on septic, which was allot. Of course we were more carefully with our use of it, but I cannot remember ever having a problem. The homes here in San Diego CA on septic use septic assist garbage disposal. http://www.insinkerator.com/isejsp/product/product.jsp?id=205&template=hhd

[drtyhands]

I would not plumb it this way either. As far as as having septic, I grew in Newport Rhode Island. Every home I can remember had garbage disposals including those on septic, which was allot. Of course we were more carefully with our use of it, but I cannot remember ever having a problem. The homes here in San Diego CA on septic use septic assist garbage disposal. http://www.insinkerator.com/isejsp/product/product.jsp?id=205&template=hhd
I agree,many,many,about 30,custom homes over 5,000 sq.ft. with multiple standard garbabe disposals in the house.
Residences over 20 years old showing no problems.

[gear junkie]

this set up is illegal in many ways according to the upc code book. someone had mentioned to use a center outlet setup, if I recall, center outlets are not allowed because they have no baffel in them like an end outlet does, which gives the waste direction. I took a code class on the 2003 code book for 11 months and this was a discussion. Also the use of branch tailpieces to hook up d/w right to the t/p, illegal because of an approved "air gap", to prevent cross contamination. not sure if this helps, but I thought it would be interesting since we were talking about under the k/s :)

Robert, 11 months on UPC!! Did you guys go over 1 section a month? Was it worthwhile or would just reading the UPC have done the same? When the upc talks about no center outlet setup, are they talking about the $5.00 center outlet setup with all slip joints? Rex's version does provide a direction of flow, right?:confused: I got Rex's 2nd book and was dissapointed. The shadetree method of plumbing was very noticable in his 2nd book. I still learned something!! But I can't remember what it was?

[westcoastplumber]

Robert, 11 months on UPC!! Did you guys go over 1 section a month? Was it worthwhile or would just reading the UPC have done the same? When the upc talks about no center outlet setup, are they talking about the $5.00 center outlet setup with all slip joints? Rex's version does provide a direction of flow, right?:confused: I got Rex's 2nd book and was dissapointed. The shadetree method of plumbing was very noticable in his 2nd book. I still learned something!! But I can't remember what it was?


I took 11 months on the UPC because I felt it was something I had to do to better myself. I went twice a week to evening class, 5:30-9pm. Great class, taught by a highly reputable city inspector, he has been teaching the code class for over 10 years if I recall. We covered everything from definitions to cross connection control, from venting and combustion air to rainwater sizing etc. If you look in an end outlet tubular tee, you will see a baffel in the inlet, a center outlet tee does not have a baffel, atleast I haven't seen anything like that. by direction of flow, you might be thinking of the radius of the fitting, that is not necessarily direction, think of why the code states we are unable to lay a santee on it's back, it has a "direction of flow", but not like a wye 1/8 bend has. with a comby, the path is guaranteed and the transition is smooth to help maintain velocity

[plumbdog10]

Robert, 11 months on UPC!! Did you guys go over 1 section a month? Was it worthwhile or would just reading the UPC have done the same? When the upc talks about no center outlet setup, are they talking about the $5.00 center outlet setup with all slip joints? Rex's version does provide a direction of flow, right?:confused: I got Rex's 2nd book and was dissapointed. The shadetree method of plumbing was very noticable in his 2nd book. I still learned something!! But I can't remember what it was?

Yea, and you paid him for the book. Why didn't you save the money and read the code?

[nervous]

[quote=PLUMBER RICK;79356]

when was the last time we used sweat stops, other than for tub/ shower valves:confused: never for inside of cabinets for fixtures:eek:


Help me understand this. I assume that the preferred stop is not a sweat stop but a compression stop inside cabinets? If not, what is?

Thanks

[gear junkie]

Thanks for the info Robert. I kinda see what you're talking about. Was your class held by UPCC? Any info if they hold these courses in VA?

[westcoastplumber]

Thanks for the info Robert. I kinda see what you're talking about. Was your class held by UPCC? Any info if they hold these courses in VA?

Hard to explain over the computer, I have a hard time putting things into words, glad I helped a bit. This code class is held by a occupational school here in los angeles, not sure if they have it back east. It's a local thing. I would check the PHCC or IAPMO in your area. I recieved my IAPMO mag and they had a whole section on water sizing. VA has the UPC or the IPC? I always thought it was the IPC:) What is the UPCC??

[gear junkie]

It's late, I meant PHCC. Va uses the 03 ipc

[drtyhands]

[quote=PLUMBER RICK;79356]

when was the last time we used sweat stops, other than for tub/ shower valves:confused: never for inside of cabinets for fixtures:eek:


Help me understand this. I assume that the preferred stop is not a sweat stop but a compression stop inside cabinets? If not, what is?

Thanks
I re-read Ricks post that you are refering to twice and I don't understand the direction of your question.
Yes,compression m.i.p. or f.i.p. angle stops.

[nervous]

I was just curious as to what the preferred stop was based on his comment and you answered that completely.

Thanks

[proplumb]

this set up would not be to code in canada that is for sure. using a double wye and 45 brings the vent level too low to work properly. also the vent cannot be a smaller pipe size than 1 1/4.