Another side job completed...

[Aaron91]

Well, I just completed another side job, and I'd like all of your input. The other thread got of hand, and I apologize. I tried making everyone happy on this one, let's see if it worked...

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/105/dcfc0001cw3.jpg

This is a before picture.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3286/dcfc0003vl7.jpg

I was planning on connecting on to the 1-1/2 copper pipe coming out of the 90*, but when I removed the 1-1/2 furncoe I found this. :eek: Just another hairy homeowner 'fix' in this house.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6112/dcfc0005yw0.jpg

Just in case you can't tell, I have a 1-1/2 copper to 1-1/2 cast iron or plastic sheer band, with a 1-1/2 street 90 in the top of it, with a piece of 1-1/2 pipe about 8" long connecting into the top of the 1-1/2 all thread trap. Then a piece maybe 10" coming down from the 1-1/2 trap adapter, out of the picture is the 1-1/2 chrome branch tail piece and chrome basket strainer.

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8452/dcfc0015er5.jpg

Here's a final side shot.

Everyone like my primer? :D

[bigPipe09]

looks good, but that trap may be prone to syphonage....where your 90 is should be a ty with either a vent connection, or at very least an AAV

[Aaron91]

Thanks for pointing that out, that totally blew over me, I'll keep it in mind if that problem arises.

[gear junkie]

I'm glad to see you can take critism. It says alot about you. How much space do you have underneath the p-trap? Enough to remove it? I need help with the next one; 1 1/2 copper is smaller than 1 1/2 pvc. Is this allowed with the way he ran it? I would think there's a potential for stoppages. Last note: don't do do things to make us or other people happy, do them because it's the right thing to do. I know what you meant though. You're getting better.

[plumberscrack]

I have nothing useful to contribute to this thread except another scarcastic remark that at least you didn't screw it up any more than it already was.

Is anyone going to mention the problem with the dishwasher discharge?

[Crappy days]

I wasn't going to say anything, but yes an air gap would be good. Aaron, without an air gap the water can flow back into the dishwasher if the sink ever backs up. If you do not want to install an air gap at least clip the discharge hose to the bottom of the counter. Or above the flood level ( as high as possible ).

[DuckButter]

Aaron...we need to make a small piece of paper with the word "VENT" on it...have you wear it on your forehead for a day!
There is no vent on the trap...your soon to be job description is, in part, VENTING!
Also...two so far have commented on the DW discharge...you have to clip the discharge hose as high as you can get it inside the sink cabinet...so the sink doesn't drain back to the DW.
I personally think the fact that you post here with pictures is a sign of great things to come...I don't know any 16 year olds with this much passion for a future career.
Now send us a picture of yourself with that "VENT" sign on your forehead.
JUST KIDDING!

[All Clear Sewer]

By looking at the pictures it looks like it`s a **** hole house. (nasty under there like a rental house) I was thinking about the DW Hose and not seeing a vent but I too work on some rental homes that are plumbed this way. I always want to fix the things I see but most of the times the landlords only want a repair not a re-plumb. I can feel your pain "IF" you are seeing these things that are being pointed out by other's. Here's my take on what I see "if" it`s a rental, you could at least strap the DW hose up to the bottom of the counter top above the flood rim of the sink like it was in the first picture and not affect the cost much ;) other then that I`m glad to see the primer ;)

One last note: That hose clamp on the DW hose is either to tight or the hose is to big ;) you should have cut off the flange looking thing and made it cleaner looking ;)

Keep plugging a-way you`ll get there

[All Clear Sewer]

Just looked again and now from a sewer guy`s point of view, you just pissed me off ;) J/K
use a P trap that comes off for line cleaning. We dont like to have to take out walls to clean sink lines.
There are many ways to make a sewer guy happy. If you want to plumb it the way you did fine but please put a clean out T in line so we dont have to take the complete line off just to clean it.

I would have to take the band clamp off and then the P-Trap nut off and hope my arms are long enough to reach the line in the wall, NOT a good thing ;)

[PLUMBER RICK]

Just looked again and now from a sewer guy`s point of view, you just pissed me off ;) J/K
use a P trap that comes off for line cleaning. We dont like to have to take out walls to clean sink lines.
There are many ways to make a sewer guy happy. If you want to plumb it the way you did fine but please put a clean out T in line so we dont have to take the complete line off just to clean it.

I would have to take the band clamp off and then the P-Trap nut off and hope my arms are long enough to reach the line in the wall, NOT a good thing ;)


all clear, the trap does have a union on it and the tail piece also has a slip joint nut. the lack of an air gap and vent is the real issue here.

aaron, nothing wrong doing side jobs for some extra cash, but it does no good if the codes are not followed. sure it looks alot cleaner than bfore you worked on it. but the job is still not up to standard.

just my opinion.

rick.

[All Clear Sewer]

looked again ;)

Take that ugly *** sticker off the band clamp, looks prettier when all tags and stickers are removed even on s hit jobs ;)

[All Clear Sewer]

Rick a clean out T would have made cleaning the line much nicer then trying to reach all the way back to the back of the wall or going it to the 90 left. that would be 2 90`s in a foot or so and makes it a pain in the *** ;)
And YES the Vent is a big problem but no vent makes guy`s like me money :D

[PLUMBER RICK]

true a wye with a plug would make it much nicer than taking off the trap.

the k-50 and 5/8'' cable would have no problem getting through that 90. the cable is much more flexible than a standard 3/8'' cable.

as far as the label goes. truthfully a upc sticker is typically hardware/ retail products, but technically a label on the transition band is required so the inspector knows that the band is of the proper design for the application. needs to show that it's for 1.5'' copper to 1.5'' plastic or iron.

rick.

if you don't have a k-50 yet, you really might think of getting one. i'm now on my 5th. one:eek: and yes they all work:D

[All Clear Sewer]

I clean most sink lines with one of these using 5/16 cable

http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/wcsstore/METB2B/html/images/largeprod/0566-1-lg.jpg

[PLUMBER RICK]

I clean most sink lines with one of these using 5/16 cable

http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/wcsstore/METB2B/html/images/largeprod/0566-1-lg.jpg

if this is the machine and cable you use to clean sinks, then why would you need to remove the trap? this will easily pass through a basket strainer.

believe it or not this is the same machine i started with 32 years ago, except the drum was steel and not aluminum.

i found that the drum screws are exposed and pose a danger in scratching/ chipping the fixture if you get too close. i like the k39 design with the 2 way power feed or chuck & plastic drum and recessed quick release screws;)

on sinks with disposals, i remove the slip joint from the diverter tee to still allow water to run and check for the stoppage. i don't like to remove the trap as you have no way to test and flush until you reassemble. still the k-50 will fit through the trap:D

rick.

[Aaron91]

Gear Junkie- There is enough to remove the trap, it's just a weird angle. Since it's such a small difference, I wouldn't think it would be a problem.

Plumbers Crack- It's a rental house and the guy only wants repairs not re pipes, I'll try again today to change his mind since I'm always over this house doing something plumbing related.

Crappy Days- " " "

All Clear Sewer- I noticed the dis charge house problem, and tested it, and it appeared ok but next time I go over I'm going to through on a clip, instead of a hose clamp. Also it's a all thread trap, so once you un thread it, you can snake it through there with no problems. I just thought it's be too many fittings in such a tight area. Also, it's a 1-1/2 copper to 1-1/2 cast iron or plastic pipe, and I wanted whoever came behind me to know I just didn't use a furncoe.

Plumber Rick- It was bought at Fergusons, your correct.

[Bob D.]

Aaron wrote: "Plumbers Crack- It's a rental house and the guy only wants repairs not re pipes, I'll try again today to change his mind since I'm always over this house doing something plumbing related."

This is where you will begin to develop the art of tactfully informing the customer what they need to do to protect themselves and others in their home. This must be based on FACT and code requirements, not what you think they need, looks like it will work, or what have you. In a Landlord situation properly plumbed means he's less likely to end up on the wrong end of a law suit if someone is injured (in the legal and physical sense) by sub-standard work. Ultimately he would be responsible since he has knowingly hired you to perform the work and is aware that you currently don't hold a plumbing license.

If you go in and find a violation or something is not right, I would think the best thing to do to protect yourself (you were the last one who worked on it, so you must be at fault is the way they will see it) is to bring it to the owners attention AND suggest a fix. Remember they are not always going to be aware of the health dangers that some less-than-legal plumbing can cause. You're there to begin with because of your expertise, they are paying for your experience AND your skills. In the long run if they refuse about all you can do is point out the problem and try to convince them it should be addressed in a timely fashion, the other choice is to walk away.

This is also an area where you have to be careful and know what you are talking about. Don't use it as a means of extracting money out of people who are depending on you to fix what needs fixing and not rape them as you eluded some others do. People don't always have to know the subject completely to know you are trying to pull a fast one on them. If they sniff a con to do more work than is needed or overcharge them, then you are dog meat in my opinion.

Next to knowledge of the trade there is nothing more important than your reputation, and many here I bet will say it's a toss-up as to which is more important. Screw over just one person and it will cost you at least 6 other jobs.

[HVAC HAWK]

the thing with the vent .

is this on a slab and maybe the pipe goes into the slab and may have a vent tied into it under ground cant it ?

[drtyhands]

the thing with the vent .

is this on a slab and maybe the pipe goes into the slab and may have a vent tied into it under ground cant it ?
Hawk,I don't think that the trap is allowed to come off the vertical like that in Aarons District or anywhere that I know of.It kind of has to do with atmospheric pressures inside the system and protecting the trap seal.But Yea,I mean it could have been vented below,I've seen worse:rolleyes:

[PLUMBER RICK]

Hawk,I don't think that the trap is allowed to come off the vertical like that in Aarons District or anywhere that I know of.It kind of has to do with atmospheric pressures inside the system and protecting the trap seal.But Yea,I mean it could have been vented below,I've seen worse:rolleyes:


close:rolleyes:

more like syphoning the trap seal. there is no vent on this trap/ fixture. at least not an approved vent. you can't flat vent it, it's not an island vent, and it's not a combination waste and vent.

rick.

[bigPipe09]

Hawk,I don't think that the trap is allowed to come off the vertical like that in Aarons District or anywhere that I know of.It kind of has to do with atmospheric pressures inside the system and protecting the trap seal.But Yea,I mean it could have been vented below,I've seen worse:rolleyes:

I know for us the maximum distance a trap arm can drop before tying into the vent is 1 pipe diameter

[DuckButter]

I know for us the maximum distance a trap arm can drop before tying into the vent is 1 pipe diameter


For us it's 1-1/2 the diameter to avert a crown vent..thought I'd toss in that really important detail.

[All Clear Sewer]

Rick I dont snake through a sink basket any longer. I caught a big hair ball one day and like to never got that mess cleaned up. It wouldnt come out and got all wound up. I always pull the P-Trap`s and I`m done in no time. Most of the plumbers around here are now installing clean-outs on sink drains. Dont know why but I love em for it :D

I rap my drum with 1 round of duct tape as it will fling crap all over and I saw the same thing on the screws. I have a K-39 in the trailer but I never use it for some reason, I always grab that one. I guess I`m still old school :D

[westcoastplumber]

Your right about the strainer, I always pull the trap, I too pulled hair back once, never again. It is best to pull the trap, less tension on the cable, I also try to never run anything smaller then my 100 machine with my 3/8 cable in k/s drains, because the sludge and debris in the line, I wanna do a good job, and feel the 1/4 top snake won't get it done. I had a customer in a 3 story house in manhattan beach, they put the kitchens on the third floor, horrible, but anyways, when I showed up, he said he has his k/s snaked out once every 1-2 months and they barely put anything down, so I carried my 100 machine up the stairs, asked him if the previous plumbers used this type of machine before, he said they had one on a drill, I ran mine, and approx 7 months later, went to do another job over his house, I solved his k/s problem by just knowing what type of machine would complete the job.

[DuckButter]

Rick I dont snake through a sink basket any longer. I caught a big hair ball one day and like to never got that mess cleaned up. It wouldnt come out and got all wound up. I always pull the P-Trap`s and I`m done in no time. Most of the plumbers around here are now installing clean-outs on sink drains. Dont know why but I love em for it :D
.....

I do, our code calls for either a CO or a removeable trap...I hate those traps, they tend to leak at the slip.
The CO's tie into a wye...leaving the trap & 1-1/2" drain before the wye to the mercy of accessability from the drain, but I still prefer them on install.