I'm sorry but I have to ask

[draintech1]

--Ok here's the deal, I'm moving my business to Arkansas and all the statements and threads about sectional machines has caught my attention. I've been drain cleaning since the late 90s and have always used drum machines. Started off with Gorlitz, used Marco, General, Duracable, Spartan, Coast, Ridgid, Desert, and some homemade job I couldn't trust as far as I could throw it. They've all done the job, some took more work than others, some I'll never put my hands on again, a couple worked like a dream. I've only seen a sectional used one time in the past 10 years and it was pretty interesting. Here's where I'm going with this. Where I'm moving the sewer lines are pretty shallow and average 60-85 ft long. Which is more efficient in this situation, sectional or drum?
--There's also alot of, and I do mean alot of, orangeberg pipe still in the ground. Now, given the increased rpms of a sectional, is there more of a chance of getting outside the orangeberg or snagging up with a sectional?
--There's also alot of clay tile and where there is clay pipe, there's always roots, but since the lines are so shallow, alot of the time they lack any true fall. So of course I'll be getting alot of sludge lines. How well do sectionals work on sludge lines? Or should I even worry about how well they work, just get the roots out, make another pass for good measure, and put a blow bag in the line?
--How bout 3" cast iron lines? There aren't a whole lot of them here going to the city sewer but there are enough to consider.
--I know for those lines that have been forgotten or haven't been found yet, I have to jump on the roof and throw cable down the vent, leave the machine going, go sound it out in the yard, and locate it. Most of the time you can feel the vibration in your feet as well as hear it very well. So I guess the big question is, is it worth for me to purchase a sectional or should I stick with my drum machines?
Thanks for your responses! I know ya'll have talked and talked about sectionals. I just needed to give you some specifics and hear what you had to say about it before I went off and made a big purchase.

[Drain Medic]

Sectional cables are great for sludge, muck, grease...mind you not as good as a jetter would do, but next best think IMO. If there is alot of Orangeberg pipe, i would worry. I used electric eels dual eel sectional machine. I wouldnt dare use it on orangeberg....I will only use sectional cable on commercial properties, or from an outside cleanout after the line has been openned to remove tree roots. I use a Spartan 2001 100ft of cable for resid. inside and outside on main san. lines..100ft has never let me down...the cutters are great...I have used it over and over again on orangeberg pipe, with no problems..just have to be carefull how you run it...its all about the feel...There are advantages and disadvantages for both... IMO drum machines are better for feeling a clog or obstruction...I was trained on and used sectional cable for 5yrs nonstop, for all drain applications, but where im at there are also alot of curb traps or front yard cleanouts...When i switched over to the drum machine, i fell in love with it...only problem i find is taking it up and down steps...IMO stick with the drum machine

Greg

[All Clear Sewer]

I only use Drum machines. My best of all times is the K-7500.with 125` of 3/4 cable
I`m going to get a K-60 but only to work in basements so I don't have to call one of my helpers in to move the K-7500 up and down the stairs.
Sectional machines take to long to set-up and put-up. The K-60 will be the only one I will ever have in my Trailer ;)

Now take that for what it`s worth as it`s only my $0.02 ;)


Oh and for locating those lines underground I use my recon locater ;)
I`v been working in sewers since the mid 80`s ;) I know the tricks :D
You can run a small drill type cable down the vent and do your locating to dig and install a clean-out.

BTW, I have one of my old locaters for sale ;)

[Gene Bickford]

I prefer a sectional(1 1/4") but I use a drill to run it. With the drill in my hands I get a lot more feel for whats going on. I have a nice rod runner machine to run the sectional but have only used it once and I often run well over 150'.
With a lot of old homes in my area the sectional is much easier to get in and out of the basements.
Now if I were in an area with a lot of outside c/o's I think a drum machine would be easier.
I think it has more to do with what your use to using. I think I've only used a drum machine 4 times so to me they just don't feel right.
One advantage of a drum machine I can think of is its one continuous cable. With a sectional I often find myself only able to go in one section at a time, so every 10' I have to stop, unhook the drill, attach the next section, unhook that section from the others and, reattach the drill. After about 100' that gets pretty old.

[plumberscrack]

I'm with Drain Medic and All Clear on this on too. Stick to the drummy.

I used to hate clearing sewers when it was Orangeburg. :(

Stay away from the root cutters :eek:

Orangeburg made me a rich man when it was time for replacement. :D

[All Clear Sewer]

Orangeburg made me a rich man when it was time for replacement. :D

I just did a replacement yesterday.
120` in 2 hours and $250 in parts and we walked away with $2200.00 :D
you just gotta love Orangeburg ;)

[freddy]

All clear, sounds like you gone flat rate :eek:and you put the cheapest type of pipe that they make in for your customer. Nice guy

As far as a machine for snaking lines, you could go with the K-60. /It will work great for roof top kitchen drain stoppages basement locations, And the 7/8" cable can be used to unstop main lines. If your having to much problem getting down the 4" line,then the pipe needs replaceing anyway IMO :D

[PLUMBER RICK]

ever since i was told to try a sectional, my drum machines have gotten jealous. i still carry a 7500 in the truck, but i also carry the k-60 and k-50 along with 2 jetters and a few k-39's.

i would have to say that the machine that is getting the most use now is my k-60:D it will do lines that my 7500 with 3/4'' cable can't. such as roofs, tuff access, and styrene pipe and fittings.

i love that k-60 and i need my 7500 for brute strength, my 1.25'' machine and cables stay at the shop until all hell breaks loose.

try the k-60 and if you don't like it, i'll buy it from you;)

more later as joey is bugging me to go to dinner:rolleyes:

rick.

[gear junkie]

I like my k-60, scratch that--love it. I've used the spartan 1065 from work and I also have a k3800. The reasons why i like the 60 is as follows:
--clutch gives you instantanous control over the cable, less chance of over torquing the cable, once you lift the handle, any built up torque goes away.
--faster- the setup time is longer but the overall process time is quicker. how fast can you push a cable in and out of the hole? pretty quick.
--the sectionals give you an indication of how far in the pipe you are, drums don't have that.
--take up less room. my 60 with all the guide hose, a 90' reel of 7/8 cable, a 75' reel of of 5/8" cable takes up less room than my 3800 with a big and small drum.
--lighter, when i do a roof I leave all my cable connected and tie it to a rope which i tie to me. when i get to the top, i pull the cable up as needed, i can take the 60, guide hose, extention cord and the rope in one trip.

my boss hates ridgid, he's a spartan guy. Every week I change his mind a little bit more when i do jobs that the rest of the guys can't do. Not that he'd ever admit that.

[westcoastplumber]

ever since i was told to try a sectional, my drum machines have gotten jealous. i still carry a 7500 in the truck, but i also carry the k-60 and k-50 along with 2 jetters and a few k-39's.

i would have to say that the machine that is getting the most use now is my k-60:D it will do lines that my 7500 with 3/4'' cable can't. such as roofs, tuff access, and styrene pipe and fittings.

i love that k-60 and i need my 7500 for brute strength, my 1.25'' machine and cables stay at the shop until all hell breaks loose.

try the k-60 and if you don't like it, i'll buy it from you;)

more later as joey is bugging me to go to dinner:rolleyes:

rick.

now daddy, you made that deal with me;)

[PLUMBER RICK]

robert, the deal goes for you too. but what do i get when you decide to keep it:confused:

since this is a suckers bet, i'll let it ride.

ben is 100% correct. the sectional machines have practically no overrun as there is no drum to continue running like a flywheel. the sections will stop the instant you let go of the handle. the cable sections are more flexible and therefore they will get past tuff turns and even traps.

the open wind cable acts like a giant continuous auger and will grab roots and baby wipes. also it augers the sludge out.

i very rarely use my rear guide hose and therefore am almost as fast with the sectional as i am with a drum.

when it comes to weight, the sectional is the hands down winner.

mark is the one i have to thank for pushing me over the edge and buying a sectional machine. problem is i didn't know he meant only 1.

as of last count i now have 8:eek: thanks mark:rolleyes:

by the way, when you get your's, you can thank me:D

your welcome ben:)

rick.

[freddy]

Another great thing about the k-60 is if you running the machine from the roof you can adjust the jaw setting to turn the cable, so you are able to go down and hear the location of your cable. This is great for a one man plumber. The old way you had to tie off the handle and hope it held. The best would be use a locator but this some times is faster. IMO:)

[TomSV650]

Well, a drum machine should be alot quicker. I use a Spartan 300 which holds 75' of cable. There are two nuts to loosen and remove the drum from the machine. Then I use a rope to haul up the rest of the machine. I usually get the line open in the first 75', if not I have an extra drum. I can often lower the whole machine off the roof with out taking it apart.(depends on the roof though)

Now how hard is that? :)

[freddy]

It's your back not mine. The k-60 is easy to work with on the roof, you carry the machine up then the cable 90 feetready to use, very easy to know how many feet you have put in. I would only use a drum machine on a inside bathroom job.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Well, a drum machine should be alot quicker. I use a Spartan 300 which holds 75' of cable. There are two nuts to loosen and remove the drum from the machine. Then I use a rope to haul up the rest of the machine. I usually get the line open in the first 75', if not I have an extra drum. I can often lower the whole machine off the roof with out taking it apart.(depends on the roof though)

Now how hard is that? :)

a 300 spartan is quicker than a sectional on the ground when you just wheel it to the c/o. but on the roof, when you have to take it apart and hump it up is not even close. i too own a spartan 300:D and it's basically a scaled down 7500.

i know that i can easily carry the 60 with 1 hand and the 75' of 7/8'' sectional with the other hand to the ladder. still need to make to trips up the roof as i don't climb without holding on with 1 hand.

plus how would you keep the 300 from rolling off a pitched roof?

believe me, after using both machines you would be much happier and proficient with the k-60 on a roof than a drum machine. unless that roof is a flat roof with an elevator access to it.

rick.

[ToUtahNow]

I've posted before when I sold my plumbing business I could have kept what ever drain cleaning equipment I wanted. All of the drain cleaning equipment I kept was Ridgid sectional. As a matter of fact the guy who bought my business has bought two K-50s from me recently.

Mark

[TomSV650]

Hmmm, well I only need to up the ladder once with the drum and then I use the rope to pull up the machine. I also don't have to keep putting cables together.

I've been doing it this way for years. I've gone on two story roofs, wood shingled roofs, spanish tiled roofs(with some plywood) and even moss covered roofs! :o I agree it's hard, but it's not like I do this everyday, probably only a couple of times a week, if that.

I always try to keep an open mind about things. If I could find a used k-60 at a decent price I would get it, but I just don't think it's worth it at full pop.

[ToUtahNow]

Hmmm, well I only need to up the ladder once with the drum and then I use the rope to pull up the machine. I also don't have to keep putting cables together.

I've been doing it this way for years. I've gone on two story roofs, wood shingled roofs, spanish tiled roofs(with some plywood) and even moss covered roofs! :o I agree it's hard, but it's not like I do this everyday, probably only a couple of times a week, if that.

I always try to keep an open mind about things. If I could find a used k-60 at a decent price I would get it, but I just don't think it's worth it at full pop.

Just consider moving up to a K-60 would be kind of like moving up to a SV1000.

Mark

[PLUMBER RICK]

Just consider moving up to a K-60 would be kind of like moving up to a SV1000.

Mark


you got me stumped:eek: wtf is a sv1000:confused:

please, don't keep me waiting till thursday:D

rick.

same offer goes to tomsv650, just got it tomsv1000:rolleyes: if you don't like the
k-60, i'll buy it from you.

a good used one goes for approx. $650 on ebay without cables.

a new one with all the cables and cutters is $1400 on a real good day.

rick.

[ToUtahNow]

you got me stumped:eek: wtf is a sv1000:confused:

please, don't keep me waiting till thursday:D

rick.

same offer goes to tomsv650, just got it tomsv1000:rolleyes: if you don't like the
k-60, i'll buy it from you.

a good used one goes for approx. $650 on ebay without cables.

a new one with all the cables and cutters is $1400 on a real good day.

rick.

I;m guessing Tom rides an SV650 which is a naked Suzuki sports bike and the SV1000 is it's big brother. Of course since he would be moving up with the K-60 I should have compared it to a Hayabusa (biggest Suzuki Sports Bike).

Mark

[All Clear Sewer]

All clear, sounds like you gone flat rate :eek:and you put the cheapest type of pipe that they make in for your customer. Nice guy

As far as a machine for snaking lines, you could go with the K-60. /It will work great for roof top kitchen drain stoppages basement locations, And the 7/8" cable can be used to unstop main lines. If your having to much problem getting down the 4" line,then the pipe needs replaceing anyway IMO :D
I just bid the job and I used 4" PVC SC/40

[TomSV650]

I;m guessing Tom rides an SV650 which is a naked Suzuki sports bike and the SV1000 is it's big brother. Of course since he would be moving up with the K-60 I should have compared it to a Hayabusa (biggest Suzuki Sports Bike).

Mark

Mark, most of the guys I know prefer the 650 over the 1000. Why? because the 650 is lighter, handles better and is much more flickable. It's awesome in the twisties and on the track. Plenty of power too.

Now if you were to compare the Hayabusa to a drain machine :o I would say a spartan 1065 would be a better comparison. The busa is big, powerfull, mean, ugly and heavy, and much like a 1065, people who see it for the first time,are impressed. But I wouldn't take it to the track though, just like I wouldn't take a 1065 on the roof. :)

TomSV650whoiscomparingmotorcyclestodrainmachinesis notcrazy! :o

[ToUtahNow]

Mark, most of the guys I know prefer the 650 over the 1000. Why? because the 650 is lighter, handles better and is much more flickable. It's awesome in the twisties and on the track. Plenty of power too.

Now if you were to compare the Hayabusa to a drain machine :o I would say a spartan 1065 would be a better comparison. The busa is big, powerfull, mean, ugly and heavy, and much like a 1065, people who see it for the first time,are impressed. But I wouldn't take it to the track though, just like I wouldn't take a 1065 on the roof. :)

TomSV650whoiscomparingmotorcyclestodrainmachinesis notcrazy! :o

Tom,

If you want to see a Hayabusa which is intimidating you should see the stretched one we helped Shaq with. Victory was suppose to build him a bike but refused to stretch it so I told them no. Honda wanted too much in exchange from Shaq so he told them no. Finally, we had him pay cash for the bike and I had my Victory dealer build the bike. It is one sweet looking bike.

Mark

[ToUtahNow]

OK here is another example. One of my ex-plumbers is being interviewed for a position on a local PD on Monday. He spent most of the afternoon at our house getting ready. We got him set up with a nice suit and my two LEO sons were prepping him for the interview. My son Jon went home with his wife and four kids at about 9 PM and Jim left with his little girl around 10 PM. With everyone gone my son Jared and I went online and were visiting with his wife and kids in Texas via web cams while Brenda went to relax in her Jacuzzi tub. Around 10:30 Brenda came out to report we had a main line stoppage.

With 5 little kids over this afternoon my guess is one of them probably lost something down the water closet and stopped up the drain. Jared set up a ladder and jumped up on the roof with 45’ of 7/8” cable while I got the K-60 and a cord out. By the time I got the machine out Jared had already popped the stoppage but wanted to make sure it cleared our lateral. While using the K-60 he hit another spot at 80’ so he ran 105’ which would be around 15’ into the County line.

With the drains flowing smoothly we went ahead and cleaned everything up and put the tools away. Total time to run the drain was less than a ½ hour from when Brenda reported the news to us to when Jared was in his truck headed for work. Anyone who complains about sectional machines taking too long to snake a line is doing something wrong.

Mark

[PLUMBER RICK]

mark, what took so long:confused:

you could have called me.

steve , i , and a few others spent 3 hours driving to lake perris tonight to watch the sprint car races.

got there in time to watch the 30 lap final.

best part was it was skirt night and all us guys wore skirts to get in for $5.00 with $1.00 hot dogs and $2.00 beers. since i don't drink i bought the $3.00 pepsi:eek:

like i said, you should have called me. it would have been better and i still would have worn the skirt for you:D

sorry but i don't have photos:p but steves daughter does:eek:

rick.