To ROOTX or not to ROOTX

[Gene Bickford]

I've been thinking about trying rootx but I'm wondering if the product is as good as the Co claims.
I use my 3" root cutter to open the line then camera before putting in a 4" to see what condition the line is in. With all the clay lines around here more often then not, I wont put the 4" in for fear of doing damage.
The 3" pretty much just pokes a hole in the root mass but the 4" does a great job getting close to the walls of the pipe but with the 4" it doesn't take much of an off set to do some damage.
So in spots that I can only use a 3" the line is left with a fair amount of roots That I'd (and I'm sure the homeowner) would like to remove.
So my question is , how good is rootx at not just killing but REMOVING these root masses and how long does it really take to see a noticeable difference?

[Drain Medic]

You have to cut out as much roots as you can...Then pretty much right after your done cabling or jetting the line to remove roots, you want to install the rootx....I tried putting some in a line acouple yrs ago just as a preventive, without using a machine, and in 4 months called out to same property for a clog and it was roots...I have found that once you cut them, install the rootx, and keep up with it yearly, it seems to work..Knock on wood i havent had to install a rootx for free...yet..... I like it and use it alot..Greg

[PLUMBER RICK]

rootx works as long as you and the customer follows the proper procedures. the most important is to properly cut the roots, install the root-x within 2 hours of cutting or 6 weeks later. install the proper amount of root-x or more, and not use the water for 6 hours afterward.

roots will absorb the chemical and will start to die. the decomposing process will take months to wash away.

just like if you pulled out roots from your snake cable. the cut roots will take months to eventually decompose and break down. that's why the root-x guarantees the line will stay free of a root stoppage caused by "living roots".

rick.

[westcoastplumber]

I would take a good hydro jetter any day, way before I dump something down the drain, expect it to find the root and kill it. With a jetter and a camera, I can buy a customer 5-10 years. Once again, it is a matter of cost, and for some reason, the customer will always choose the cheapest way, not the best way.

[PLUMBER RICK]

problem is robert, that even if you clean the line spotless with a jetter. the roots are already established and will grow back. just like a bonzi tree. bigger and stronger. root-x will actually kill the roots and stunt their regrowth.

rick.

now root-x inside of a jetter will work wonders. my idea;)

rick.

[westcoastplumber]

problem is robert, that even if you clean the line spotless with a jetter. the roots are already established and will grow back. just like a bonzi tree. bigger and stronger. root-x will actually kill the roots and stunt their regrowth.

rick.

now root-x inside of a jetter will work wonders. my idea;)

rick.


Well if we are looking for a permanent repair, line or replace/repair the sewer then, I was talking about giving the customer 5-10 years, on root based stoppages, more then root-x can offer.

I have personally ran cameras in sewers who get a good jetting every 5 or so years, they look great.

Have you ran a camera in a sewer you used root-x on 5-10 years ago?? ;)

[PLUMBER RICK]

Well if we are looking for a permanent repair, line or replace/repair the sewer then, I was talking about giving the customer 5-10 years, on root based stoppages, more then root-x can offer.

I have personally ran cameras in sewers who get a good jetting every 5 or so years, they look great.

Have you ran a camera in a sewer you used root-x on 5-10 years ago?? ;)

of course i have run cameras into lines with rootx treatment.

considering you have been doing plumbing for less than 10 years, i find that statement hard to swallow.

once you have roots, you will always have roots. jetting is a very good way of cutting roots with the right jetter and nozzle selection. a camera is the only way to determine the condition of the pipe. when i camera a line and clean it, i do a before and after video of the line. i can honestly tell you that a line with roots will regrow roots within a year. the 2 big root growing times of the year are early spring and fall.

depending on how aggressive the roots are and how large the root ends are, will determine how fast the line will regrow and eventually plug up. 5 years is a long time for roots to grow and not plug up if nothing at all is done.

root-x or any other root killer properly applied will kill roots and prolong the inevitable stoppage. root x is a foaming product, while copper sulfate is a product that sits on the bottom of the pipe and will only work if the roots are at the bottom of the pipe at time of treatment.

not knocking you robert, but 5-10 years on a root stoppage is hard to swallow. since i keep computer records of all my jobs, i can tell you that this is not the norm, but the exception.

once you have roots, you always have roots. unless you repair, reline, or replace the line.

questions:confused:

rick.

[mrs. westcoast]

of course i have run cameras into lines with rootx treatment.

considering you have been doing plumbing for less than 10 years, i find that statement hard to swallow.

once you have roots, you will always have roots. jetting is a very good way of cutting roots with the right jetter and nozzle selection. a camera is the only way to determine the condition of the pipe. when i camera a line and clean it, i do a before and after video of the line. i can honestly tell you that a line with roots will regrow roots within a year. the 2 big root growing times of the year are early spring and fall.

depending on how aggressive the roots are and how large the root ends are, will determine how fast the line will regrow and eventually plug up. 5 years is a long time for roots to grow and not plug up if nothing at all is done.

root-x or any other root killer properly applied will kill roots and prolong the inevitable stoppage. root x is a foaming product, while copper sulfate is a product that sits on the bottom of the pipe and will only work if the roots are at the bottom of the pipe at time of treatment.

not knocking you robert, but 5-10 years on a root stoppage is hard to swallow. since i keep computer records of all my jobs, i can tell you that this is not the norm, but the exception.

once you have roots, you always have roots. unless you repair, reline, or replace the line.

questions:confused:

rick.


Rick, we all know that it takes approx 30-40 years for 70% of the sewers to experience root stoppages. I have ran into 1 sooner, that was because the sewer was improperly installed using ABS and the fitting was cracked.

Do not pull the age card ricky on the experience;):D

If you hydro jett the sewer clean, while running a camera to inspect the line, I guarantee you can get 5 ++++ years until you have another root based stoppage.

Atleast one thing we can agree on is what I had said in my second post, to get rid of the roots you need to either line, repair or replace sewer.;):)

ROBERT

[PLUMBER RICK]

If you hydro jett the sewer clean, while running a camera to inspect the line, I guarantee you can get 5 ++++ years until you have another root based stoppage.

ROBERT

robert, i hope you don't put that in writing, or you will be doing a lot of free calls in those 5 years.

if you do put it writing, you better charge 5 times the going rate to cover your return visits.

i can tell you that i have the best root nozzle that you can buy, a warthog. and there is no way i would expect a line not to plug up in 5 years, even with proper jetting and camering to boot.

sure i will get more than a year, but 5 is not realistic with all the ficus i run into. even the local cities will plug up if not maintained.

i have a building that i use to do 2 times a year. the management wants me to do it every month. the city has to clean their main at least 2 times a year too.

every root will regrow. expecting the roots to not plug a 4'' line in 5 years is a real gamble. if you want to guarantee it. you will be the only one that i know of to offer this service.

who knows you might get rich, or you might go bust:confused:

my advise, don't do it.

mark, robert needs some help:D

rick.

[westcoastplumber]

Hmmmmmmm, ok rick, we will agree to disagree, I don't warranty anything for past a year. Anything past a year is a manufacturers warranty.

Good luck ricky trying to see out of the box buddy;):D


again, we will agree to disagree:D:D

[westcoastplumber]

By the way, your Warthog nozzel is also called a Root Rat by US Jetter Company, I have used them all the time;)

[PLUMBER RICK]

Hmmmmmmm, ok rick, we will agree to disagree, I don't warranty anything for past a year. Anything past a year is a manufacturers warranty.

Good luck ricky trying to see out of the box buddy;):D


again, we will agree to disagree:D:D

robert you might not know it, but your remodel is technically a 10 year warranty.

not disagreeing totally. just questioning your #'s.

i have written proof with videos that sewers with root issues do not last 5-10 years without cleaning. now at my own personal house, i have roots, but never a stoppage. every couple of years i test out a new piece of equipment in my 4'' cleanout and will pull back roots every time. have i stopped up? no, but that's because i catch it in time and there are only 2 of us here. not much use like a house full of kids.

remember that the roots don't technically stop up the line:confused: it's the waste and paper that catch on the roots that cause the stoppage. the roots just cause the paper to not flow.

buy yourself a jetter and advertise a 5 year warranty. believe me you will have more work than you can handle. just make sure you get out of town in 2 years and never come back:D

in fact i will rent you mine to get you started. it even has a wireless remote so you can do it yourself. i'll even give you some referrals to get you started, but don't say i didn't tell you so.

5 years no, 2 years yes;)

don't press your luck:D

call me to discuss further, unless you want the free advertising here with a 5 year guarantee:eek:

rick.

[PLUMBER RICK]

By the way, your Warthog nozzle is also called a Root Rat by US Jetter Company, I have used them all the time;)

2 totally different nozzles. warthog is all water cutting with a slow controlled rotation.

root rat has a chain or cable whip to do the cutting. the problem is the chain or cutter has to contact the entire pipe to clean it throughly. also the chain will have a tendency to damage pipe with the chain flailing. water can damage pipe too, but at 4000# it is minimal. go to the warthog site for real photos of the the testing of different pipes, with psi, gpm, and material removed.

rick.

[westcoastplumber]

robert you might not know it, but your remodel is technically a 10 year warranty.

not disagreeing totally. just questioning your #'s.

i have written proof with videos that sewers with root issues do not last 5-10 years without cleaning. now at my own personal house, i have roots, but never a stoppage. every couple of years i test out a new piece of equipment in my 4'' cleanout and will pull back roots every time. have i stopped up? no, but that's because i catch it in time and there are only 2 of us here. not much use like a house full of kids.

remember that the roots don't technically stop up the line:confused: it's the waste and paper that catch on the roots that cause the stoppage. the roots just cause the paper to not flow.

buy yourself a jetter and advertise a 5 year warranty. believe me you will have more work than you can handle. just make sure you get out of town in 2 years and never come back:D

in fact i will rent you mine to get you started. it even has a wireless remote so you can do it yourself. i'll even give you some referrals to get you started, but don't say i didn't tell you so.

5 years no, 2 years yes;)

don't press your luck:D

call me to discuss further, unless you want the free advertising here with a 5 year guarantee:eek:

rick.

The 10 year warranty you are refering to is the Latent Warrenty on structual work.

As far as the roots not stopping the line, geeze rick, we weren't getting elementary here, of course the waste and paper catch the roots to stop the line up:rolleyes:

I used a jetter with a wirless remote and a wireless foot pedal, no big deal;)

If you read carefully, I was never giving a 5 year warranty, I said I have cleared lines and went to re-camera them, little root growth, not enought to cause a stoppage. The customers were on a once a year camera program at a reduced rate to inspect their sewer line to prevent problems. Mostly apartments and rental units.

For the record, I don't warranty any stoppage, unless it's a jetter, then it's a year. I never said I warranty for 5 years, I said I have run cameras in sewers on the program.

If Rick dosen't agree with it, it must be wrong;););):D:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolley es:

[drtyhands]

Robert,
It looks a little pink back there.I better get the ALOE for ya:p

[westcoastplumber]

2 totally different nozzles. warthog is all water cutting with a slow controlled rotation.

root rat has a chain or cable whip to do the cutting. the problem is the chain or cutter has to contact the entire pipe to clean it throughly. also the chain will have a tendency to damage pipe with the chain flailing. water can damage pipe too, but at 4000# it is minimal. go to the warthog site for real photos of the the testing of different pipes, with psi, gpm, and material removed.

rick.


I have ordered a "Root Rat" from US Jetter before and it came to the shop, look exactly like your warthog.

I searched root rat and it does have the chains, I have never like those nozzles:)

[PLUMBER RICK]

The 10 year warranty you are refering to is the Latent Warrenty on structual work.

robert, you need to talk with mark. it's on any work that is not in sight to the consumer/ owner. not just structual work.

work underground, in walls, ceilings, slabs, out of sight.

plumbing too. you need to make sure that your insurance co will cover you 10 years down the rode. also know as a sunset clause.

mark, a little more information for all of us, since you deal with it daily.

rick.

[westcoastplumber]

robert, you need to talk with mark. it's on any work that is not in sight to the consumer/ owner. not just structual work.

work underground, in walls, ceilings, slabs, out of sight.

plumbing too. you need to make sure that your insurance co will cover you 10 years down the rode. also know as a sunset clause.

mark, a little more information for all of us, since you deal with it daily.

rick.


I have already requested that my work be covered for 10 years rick, thank you though for your concern, it has to do with the manifestation or sunset something or the other, got it covered buddy;) I requested both those areas be covered.

[ToUtahNow]

First off let me say Rick is correct in that regardless of how well you clean roots out of a drain they will only stay out until they grow back. When you cut the roots you are only cutting the roots inside of the pipe. The roots which are outside of the pipe are still going to seek the water in the drain and will return into the drain through the same voids where they entered the drain the first time. The amount of time that will take will depend on how healthy the roots are and how bad the void is.

As for insurance there are several different types of policies and you really need to understand them before you buy insurance. It seems Occurance insurance is the best coverage in that it will cover you after the policy expires. Claims Made policies require a tag policy or extra money for an Extended Reporting Period. It is also important to understand what happens to you if your insurance company files BK.

The period of time in California where an owner can still come after you is 10 years. That is assuming the problem is a latent problem as Rick explained. It is not likely anyone would come after you for a couple of thousand dollars as it costs too much to do so. However, I have seen $100 service calls which over time have created hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage. You need to make sure you are covered for that.

The cost of defense is something to consider as well. I was recently sued for a job which a Corporation did which I had no ownership of and I was not their employee. Still the Plaintiff had me listed as the principal share holder. Because I had no relation with the Corporation my E&O insurance would not cover me. I spent a bunch of money out of pocket to hire an Attorney to convince the Plaintiff they were mistaken. Of course to get my release I had to give them a waiver of fees so I ate my costs.

Mark

[Sylvan Tieger]

I've been thinking about trying rootx but I'm wondering if the product is as good as the Co claims.
I use my 3" root cutter to open the line then camera before putting in a 4" to see what condition the line is in. With all the clay lines around here more often then not, I wont put the 4" in for fear of doing damage.
The 3" pretty much just pokes a hole in the root mass but the 4" does a great job getting close to the walls of the pipe but with the 4" it doesn't take much of an off set to do some damage.
So in spots that I can only use a 3" the line is left with a fair amount of roots That I'd (and I'm sure the homeowner) would like to remove.
So my question is , how good is rootx at not just killing but REMOVING these root masses and how long does it really take to see a noticeable difference?


I have accounts where I have been snaking out roots every year or two for the past 25+ years and never use chemicals.

If one does the snaking properly, increasing the cutter head until your using full piping diameter (if possible) and the snake comes back clear then your good to go for another year.

Why peddle chemicals then tell the victims you have to come back in a year?

http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbviews/1999/chemicals.asp

[freddy]

problem is robert, that even if you clean the line spotless with a jetter. the roots are already established and will grow back. just like a bonzi tree. bigger and stronger. root-x will actually kill the roots and stunt their regrowth.

rick.

now root-x inside of a jetter will work wonders. my idea;)

rick.
I have used root-x on several jobs and, If used as instucted, it will do great keeping the roots from growing down the pipe. A lot cheaper than a jetter job. I would strongly advise not to try Ricks idea. :)

[toolaholic]

WOW,Now Rick will be dumping machines! I'll take one of those K-60s ,if the price is right!

[PLUMBER RICK]

tool, not to worry. there are no tools or k-60's for sale.

if freddy knew what my idea is, he would be 1 up on me.

but since freddy is not listed as anything, i would suggest you not listen to anything he says.

nobody knows what he does, where he does it, and for how long he has been doing it.

plus he's a little slow. it's been 6 week since this was last posted. it took him 6 weeks to come up with that answer:eek:

rick.

[freddy]

Sorry Plumber Dick,I missed this post date, as I don't live on the forum as you do. I have a life that don't revolve around plumbing all the time, or Being a post whore as youself.
Any one using Root-X should follow the instructions, and the product will do a great job.:) Freddy

[gear junkie]

Sorry Plumber Dick,I missed this post date, as I don't live on the forum as you do. I have a life that don't revolve around plumbing all the time, or Being a post whore as youself.
Any one using Root-X should follow the instructions, and the product will do a great job.:) Freddy

Being military, I've met thousands of people and amazingly ran into them time and time again. It would be very interesting if we all got to meet each other. Attitudes would quickly change.

[toolaholic]

Sorry Rick ,thought this was good natured kidding. Wow, I was wrong.

[BILLG]

Sorry Plumber Dick,I missed this post date, as I don't live on the forum as you do. I have a life that don't revolve around plumbing all the time, or Being a post whore as youself.
Any one using Root-X should follow the instructions, and the product will do a great job.:) Freddy

for many, being in the trades is more than just a job, it's a large part of who they are. they find happiness in work and are so thankful for the gifts that god has given them, can't help but share them with others. like a teacher who's eyes light up with joy when teaching, you can't help but learn from them. as an example, I never envisioned nor wanted anything to do with drain cleaning, find myself wanting a k-60. I thank everyone for taking the time to share. and those who belittle and berate those happy in life, need no further punishment other than the self induced hell they live in.

[Drain Medic]

for many, being in the trades is more than just a job, it's a large part of who they are. they find happiness in work and are so thankful for the gifts that god has given them, can't help but share them with others. like a teacher who's eyes light up with joy when teaching, you can't help but learn from them. as an example, I never envisioned nor wanted anything to do with drain cleaning, find myself wanting a k-60. I thank everyone for taking the time to share. and those who belittle and berate those happy in life, need no further punishment other than the self induced hell they live in.


Well said. I thought i would never use a K60 or any Ridgid drain machines, being i was trained on Spartan and eel machines...After talking to Rick and Ben and acouple others, i finally broke down and bought one...Now im happy that i did. Rick has had some other great advice on some other things that i had run into...You dont have to agree with him all the time, but his knowledge is 2nd to none...

Greg

[PLUMBER RICK]

tool, not to worry. there are no tools or k-60's for sale.

if freddy knew what my idea is, he would be 1 up on me.

but since freddy is not listed as anything, i would suggest you not listen to anything he says.

nobody knows what he does, where he does it, and for how long he has been doing it.

plus he's a little slow. it's been 6 week since this was last posted. it took him 6 weeks to come up with that answer:eek:

rick.

Sorry Plumber Dick,I missed this post date, as I don't live on the forum as you do. I have a life that don't revolve around plumbing all the time, or Being a post whore as youself.
Any one using Root-X should follow the instructions, and the product will do a great job.:) Freddy

great answer from a wanna be handyman. what is it that you need to hide?you don't list an occupation, location, or any experience?

doesn't look like anyone believes anything you have to say. so just don't say it. probably time for you to join a forum where you're appreciated. this one is not it.

i doubt that you have been buying root x anywhere as long as i have. i have used it before it was even called root-x.

last time i checked it's not available at your hardware store.

freddy, what exactly do you do for a living? where do you do it? how long have you been doing it? 3 simple questions. even a 5th. grader could answer it. do you have a license? a company? work for someone? go to school? nobody knows anything about you. what are you trying to hide?

rick.

[ihateroots]

Hi Plumber Rick.

I just had my sewer drains rotted out today because of tree roots. They basically dug up a part of my front yard, took out about 4 feet of the old clay sewer drain and replaced it with PVC that had a "T" joint and then ran about a 6 foot piece up to the surface so they could rot out the drain today and if need in the future. My question is if I use root-x once a year could this "theoretically" prevent me from having to have a company come out and rot the pipes again.

I am not a plumber so I hope I explained it in a way that you could understand.

Thanks
:)

[Ace Sewer]

I use Rootx, with mixed results. Any time I have roots, I camera to determine the extent of them. I then snake to cut them out, and rootx afterward. I get about 2 years out of a treatment (short growing season here). I have tried jetting with a warthog at 5.5 gpm at 3000 psi; this gives me very clean roots. What nozzle are you using at what psi/flow that removes the roots? When I blade them, I leave as much as 1/2" behind all around the pipe with the biggest blade I can get in. I'd love to have a way to rip roots with the jetter, especially if it will remove that last 1/2" of mat I can't get to with a cable. The rootx I do mostly as a regrowth inhibitor. Are you jetting preventatively during that 5-10 years?
-Alex

[Ace Sewer]

And to 'ihateroots',

I think an annual treatment of rootx (assuming you can get it... as far as I know they only sell to drain cleaning professionals) surely can't hurt and will likely keep your problem at bay if you apply it per diections. I'd say you have to balance the cost of the rootx agaist the cost of your drain cleaner coming out again. I tell every customer I have with roots to call me back for rootx every 1-2 years. With one notable exception who calls me every fall, no-one ever does. They call me back at 3-5 years when they plug up again.
-Alex

[gear junkie]

I have tried jetting with a warthog at 5.5 gpm at 3000 psi; this gives me very clean roots. -Alex
Don't have a warthog and am not the expert on jetting but don't warthog nozzles require 12gpm at a minimum?

[PLUMBER RICK]

Hi Plumber Rick.

I just had my sewer drains rotted out today because of tree roots. They basically dug up a part of my front yard, took out about 4 feet of the old clay sewer drain and replaced it with PVC that had a "T" joint and then ran about a 6 foot piece up to the surface so they could rot out the drain today and if need in the future. My question is if I use root-x once a year could this "theoretically" prevent me from having to have a company come out and rot the pipes again.

I am not a plumber so I hope I explained it in a way that you could understand.

Thanks
:)

if you have roots still in the line, that are alive, then yes. root-x should be able to control the future growth of roots. you need to know the size, length of your sewer line. this is important as you need to know how much to apply. too much is ok, just expensive. too little is a waste of money. and if you don't have roots, then it's also a waste of money.

have you had your line videoed to locate the problem and repair. were there more roots downstream?

rick.

[Drain Medic]

And to 'ihateroots',

I think an annual treatment of rootx (assuming you can get it... as far as I know they only sell to drain cleaning professionals) surely can't hurt and will likely keep your problem at bay if you apply it per diections. I'd say you have to balance the cost of the rootx agaist the cost of your drain cleaner coming out again. I tell every customer I have with roots to call me back for rootx every 1-2 years. With one notable exception who calls me every fall, no-one ever does. They call me back at 3-5 years when they plug up again.
-Alex


Thats exactly why you have clean roots...The warthog needs at least 12 GPM and flow around btwn 3500-4000PSI to be affective..I use, and i know Rick used it to cut roots....It has never let me down....I will use the camera at the same time and go from joint to joint to remove roots....Never fails...Once im done jetting, i then install the Root X right after just as a precaution for roots in the joints you cant see with your eyes

Greg

[gear junkie]

Don't have a warthog and am not the expert on jetting but don't warthog nozzles require 12gpm at a minimum?

I stand corrected. The website says the 3/8" can go as low as 5 gpm.

[ihateroots]

Rick thanks-

Yes they videoed the line and there were more roots downstream. They located and cleaned all the affected areas. They told me that depending on how quick the roots grow back that I would probably have to have the line rotted once a year. If I can use Root-X to buy me an extra year or two that would be better than dropping $300 a year to have the sewers cleaned out if they don't need it. But I would rather spend the money than have the sewer back up into our laundry room again, that’s fun :eek:.

Is there a way of checking on the root growth other than the video solution? I guess i will try the root-x and maybe have someone come back in a year to video the sewer and check the progress. Is that something that you would recommend?

Thanks again for your help

[PLUMBER RICK]

Rick thanks-

Yes they videoed the line and there were more roots downstream. They located and cleaned all the affected areas. They told me that depending on how quick the roots grow back that I would probably have to have the line rotted once a year. If I can use Root-X to buy me an extra year or two that would be better than dropping $300 a year to have the sewers cleaned out if they don't need it. But I would rather spend the money than have the sewer back up into our laundry room again, that’s fun :eek:.

Is there a way of checking on the root growth other than the video solution? I guess i will try the root-x and maybe have someone come back in a year to video the sewer and check the progress. Is that something that you would recommend?

Thanks again for your help

you need to wait at least 6 weeks once you snake the line to install root x. unless you install it within 2 hours of cutting.

re videoing the line in a year is a waste of money, unless they do it for free. i would try the root x every year and wait till you have symptoms of a slow drain.

rick.

[Ace Sewer]

Gene, Robert, Greg, Rick,

I would like to recap, then ask some questions.

- Gene cables roots, and asks whether Rootx is effective in removing the last bit of roots left after doing so
- Robert prefers jetting to remove roots, and doesn't bother with rootx; in his experience, a good jet job is sufficient for 5+ yrs
- Greg will either jet or cable to remove roots, and likes rootx
- Rick typically jets to remove roots, and feels Rootx is important, possibly crucial, to prevent regrowth
- all seem to agree that just dumping the Rootx in the line w/o first removing as much roots as possible is ineffective
- Rick advocates annual Rootx as a preventative, Robert thinks it's wasted effort, Gene's question was not directed at preventative per se, and Greg has yet to specifically weigh in on the preventative side of the debate


Vastly simplified, I know, but more or less correct?



Questions;

- No one has answered Gene's original question.... will Rootx remove, not just kill but remove the last bit of roots left after taking a cable to them?

- Those of you who jet for roots, what nozzle are you using, at what flow/gpm, in a 4" clay line? Do you find you must watch with camera and hold the nozzle at each joint until you see the roots gone, or can you do a couple nice slow passes the length of it and feel confident?

- My 3/8 Warthog has been set up by Stone Age specifically to run at 5gpm, I then push it a little to 5.5gpm... it has been excellent and is my tool of choice in any 3" or 4" line, except for roots. You seem to be having much better success with a jetter to remove roots than I am. Do you think the difference is the larger flows you are using? Are you also using the 3/8 Warthog or a different nozzle? I have long wanted a 20gpm machine but haven't been able to justify it for the few frozen culverts and city mains I get called for each year. If I can make a quick clean effective job of jetting roots with it, that may tip me over the edge.

-Alex

[Drain Medic]

Gene, Robert, Greg, Rick,

I would like to recap, then ask some questions.

- Gene cables roots, and asks whether Rootx is effective in removing the last bit of roots left after doing so
- Robert prefers jetting to remove roots, and doesn't bother with rootx; in his experience, a good jet job is sufficient for 5+ yrs
- Greg will either jet or cable to remove roots, and likes rootx
- Rick typically jets to remove roots, and feels Rootx is important, possibly crucial, to prevent regrowth
- all seem to agree that just dumping the Rootx in the line w/o first removing as much roots as possible is ineffective
- Rick advocates annual Rootx as a preventative, Robert thinks it's wasted effort, Gene's question was not directed at preventative per se, and Greg has yet to specifically weigh in on the preventative side of the debate


Vastly simplified, I know, but more or less correct?



Questions;

- No one has answered Gene's original question.... will Rootx remove, not just kill but remove the last bit of roots left after taking a cable to them?

- Those of you who jet for roots, what nozzle are you using, at what flow/gpm, in a 4" clay line? Do you find you must watch with camera and hold the nozzle at each joint until you see the roots gone, or can you do a couple nice slow passes the length of it and feel confident?

- My 3/8 Warthog has been set up by Stone Age specifically to run at 5gpm, I then push it a little to 5.5gpm... it has been excellent and is my tool of choice in any 3" or 4" line, except for roots. You seem to be having much better success with a jetter to remove roots than I am. Do you think the difference is the larger flows you are using? Are you also using the 3/8 Warthog or a different nozzle? I have long wanted a 20gpm machine but haven't been able to justify it for the few frozen culverts and city mains I get called for each year. If I can make a quick clean effective job of jetting roots with it, that may tip me over the edge.

-Alex


Alex....I will use Root X right after i jet a line to remove roots, or cable the line open....Once i use the Root X, i like to give the customer the option of once a year to snake and Root X the line to keep the tree roots from growing back....I like Root X, i have been using it for years...Only once have i root x'd a line that it backed up with roots again before the year warranty expired and that is because the customer denied the video inspection...

Greg

[DUNBAR]

And never a problem.....even though it knocks me out of job. :(


I have a list of customers that I do the follow-ups of the annual treatments.


Usually when I've been to someone's house more than a couple times is when I can upsell and convince they need it.

The history of the drains I've treated with this product has been good testament to its use.


It's the same stuff they use.....just in a different form to control growth on the glass of large aquariums....just in a different equation.


These guys that sell it on ebay? Still can't figure out how they can sell it so darn cheap and make a buck. I know what the supply houses are buying it for and these guys are charging less than that. Stolen? Who knows.

[billytwohatz]

Out here we cable the roots out then try to upsell the rootx to the customer... I have used it and to my understanding what it does to any remaining roots if any will kind of crystalize and then snap off if it comes in contact with anything. We apply it while on site, but we will not put it in past 3 weeks of cableing. We extend our gurantee on 3" stacks- from 30 days to a year and on 4" and above from 6 months to a year also. I stand by it. I have also heard that if you treat the same line 3 years in a row, you can go down to every other year... but I have not read anything to confirm it. You stand a better chance with the rootx than coppersulfate or rock salt. When I hear a customer say I have been putting rock salt down my stack once a month for the past 5 years I just cringe never good things comeing after that.

Billytwohatz

run it only once you will be back to run it again

[Gene Bickford]

It's funny this thread has been dug up. On Monday I bought 4lbs of rootX to do a test on a customers line. He just bought the home. A few months later he has my competition snake out a blockage of roots. Three months later he calls me for same thing. That was six months ago and I had to go again just the other day to remove roots. With the camera I know I cleaned the line good the first time. CRAZY ROOTS.
Easy access to basement so I wont have to tromp all through the house and disturb everyone.
He agreed to pay for the rootX and I will apply at no charge. Then I will camera once a month(free) to see the results.

[billytwohatz]

The company I work for did that for a municipality that had a lateral program once. The house was a problem house and we cabled it out applied rootx, went back at 30/60/90 days, had to recable reapplied rootx again went back at 6 months from the second aplication, and again at a year and no major growth to be reported at those last two times. I think that first thing to consider is where are you cableing from, 3" cast Iron c/o in the basement or a 6" clay or pvc c/o in the yard, The 3" you are probably going back, but with a c/o the same size as the line going out you are not going to have any worries.

Billytwohatz

run it only once and you will be back to run it again

[Ace Sewer]

It's funny this thread has been dug up. On Monday I bought 4lbs of rootX to do a test on a customers line. He just bought the home. A few months later he has my competition snake out a blockage of roots. Three months later he calls me for same thing. That was six months ago and I had to go again just the other day to remove roots. With the camera I know I cleaned the line good the first time. CRAZY ROOTS.
Easy access to basement so I wont have to tromp all through the house and disturb everyone.
He agreed to pay for the rootX and I will apply at no charge. Then I will camera once a month(free) to see the results.

Six months and they are back... wow. I'd be interested to hear about what you find on your monthly vids.

[PLUMBER RICK]

i don't typically jet lines for roots. i will jet them if it's a very long run, very steep hillside, or a small access point.

typically i cable the line with either a 3/4'' cable, 7/8'' sectional, or 1.25'' sectional. i also like to use my root saw or 4x6'' expanding cutters.

a properly sized jetter with a warthog nozzle will cut roots very effectively.

it is always nice to know where to concentrate the jetter head. a video of the line is always better than going in blind. if i know where the roots are, i can reel out the proper amount of hose or cable to concentrate my cleaning efforts.

root-x is not a miracle product. it has to be properly applied, knowing the footage, timing and absorption time.

roots just don't die and disappear. they need to decompose.

a branch falls on your front lawn. we know it's dead because it's no longer attached to the tree. how long will it take for the branch to totally decompose? same goes with root-x. also there is too many variables with root-x.

to sum it up, root-x will work on roots as long it's applied properly, by the manufacturers specs. it doesn't work overnight.

rick.

[Ace Sewer]

I have a customer who had someone else snake out his roots a couple years ago and asked me to camera to see what state they were in. There were some roots, very borderline as to whether or not I should break out the 3/4 machine and remove them. Customer agreed because of the reduced expense and no backups yet to let me just apply rootx and see how it did... 3 mo later I return and camera... virtually exactly the same. I will camera again this spring, which will be about 10 mo, and we will see. I suspect either they are dead and just hanging there (though bumping them with the camera didn't knock them off), or the guy ran water too soon after I applied the rootx.


Again, those of you who sucessfully jet roots, what nozzles, gpm, psi are you using?

-Alex