How much do you make an hour?

[gear junkie]

This is not a flat rate discussion!!!! I'm interested for business owners, after everything is paid for i.e. gas, materials, taxes, employee wages, etc. how much do you figure you make an hour?

[drtyhands]

That is a very general question in my field as it's const'.Every job has different unseen variables.

When out on a job I would like to see $700.00 a day.

But you have to realize how much time and energy that goes into that one day of work.

Adam

[PLUMBER RICK]

probably about 2 cents net:D

ben hard question and answer.

it varies. there is no set answer for me.

depends on a few factors.

at the end of the year, i can figure it out pretty easy based on my gross and my net. then divide my total billable work hours and also my total hours billable and non billable.

i know my fixed expenses for the year.

maybe the gopher can figure it out better than me:confused:

rick.

[ToUtahNow]

I'm too expensive for me to hire.

Mark

[drtyhands]

I'm too expensive for me to hire.

Mark

In all reallity Mark,Doesn't that go for every single human being:rolleyes:
As each individual can provide his/her individual need.

Even the Trophy girl has a price for her PROS AND CONS.

[mrs. westcoast]

That is a very general question in my field as it's const'.Every job has different unseen variables.

When out on a job I would like to see $700.00 a day.

But you have to realize how much time and energy that goes into that one day of work.

Adam

wow, $21000 a month....not bad...

[westcoastplumber]

Thanks adam, I have to work 7 days a week, make 700 a day now, she knows it's possible:eek:

I think 700 a day, for 6 days is good, of course in service and repair it is up and down, an average of 700 a day sounds feasable.;) some days you make 80, others you make 2000, up and down.

[ToUtahNow]

Ben,

The reason the question is so hard is because you have to average it out over the entire year. Your monthly cost remain the same whether your phones are ringing or not. The hard part for most new business owners is understanding how to budget for the hard times.

Mark

[gear junkie]

The reason for my question is that I'm trying to figure out what I want to do in my way distant future. Open my own business, work for someone else? I understand most people who start their own business do it for control (in a good way) rather than money. I'm just curious after all was said and done, what I would make. Maybe here's a better question; what rough percentage of your money is yours after everything is done and paid.

[drtyhands]

Ben,

The reason the question is so hard is because you have to average it out over the entire year. Your monthly cost remain the same whether your phones are ringing or not. The hard part for most new business owners is understanding how to budget for the hard times.

Mark
Bingo Mark,I am inking less than one project a month so there is a lot of reasources invested into building an entirely new network.Later on the numbers will be entirely different.

On the other hand Gear,for associates I charge $85.00 per hour.I cannot live on that because the tit-for-tat sporaticism(2hrs per week average)for service work ain't enough,I'm not geared for it.I'm more geared for ground up.But you understand this as much as anyone:)

Zeljka,see that's why so many are leary of talking money.So many see numbers that are eye popping.So many want the money.So few understand the knowledge and reasources needed to provide for what they are charging for.There is a great deal of investment that goes into the compensation that the customer pays for.I can go on and on.

21,000 a month,in my dreams.Look at how much time I spend on the forum.You have to know Robert and I would much rather be working in our field than yanking each others posts:eek::D:)

Me and my big mouth:p

Adam

[ToUtahNow]

The reason for my question is that I'm trying to figure out what I want to do in my way distant future. Open my own business, work for someone else? I understand most people who start their own business do it for control (in a good way) rather than money. I'm just curious after all was said and done, what I would make. Maybe here's a better question; what rough percentage of your money is yours after everything is done and paid.

If you start out with the proper business plan you will always make more money on your own. It may be slow starting but if you stick with it you will make it. In addition, to your income you are also building assets when you own your own business.

Mark

[Bogart]

I charge 90 bucks an hour. Strictly service and repair. I have done one new house for money, and one for Habitat for Humanity. Last year, my first full year of business, I made 80 grand. 50 in wages, the rest in disbursements and loan repayments. However, I didn't make any pension contributions. If I closed up and went back to the hall, I would get 40 an hour, plus the pension and insurance. But I would probably be working for some "get it done wrong faster" type. Hourly, I am way under scale, but I plan on building the business into something valuable and that will make up for the unpaid time I put in now.

[Josh]

Very tough one for anyone to answer on here and probably uncomfortable to post in your line of work. Its easy for salaried employees like me to answer what they make (I'll never tell ;-) I would guess in the plumbers line of work its feast or famine. You take entire days setting stuff up for big days like drtyhands 700 dollars a day then you have some days where you make squat. As your career goes on and your name gets out there more your 700 dollar days probably increase. You guys deserve every penny you make. Some plumbers do incredibly well financially but they put in the hard work to get there.

If Adam is making 21k a month he needs to hire me onto his workforce ;).

Actually.. 21k a month in CA pry just gets you by... I cant believe the cost of living out there :-0

[PLUMBER RICK]

If Adam is making 21k a month he needs to hire me onto his workforce ;).

you would think with that kind of money, he would be a better golfer:D

the way you golf josh, you should be making that kind of money.

i thought all the big deals were made on the golf course:confused:

maybe adam can treat us to golf the next time;)

i forgot he did beat joey and i in mini golf and i had to buy the desert:D

rick.

[BayleyBrown]

This is not a flat rate discussion!!!! I'm interested for business owners, after everything is paid for i.e. gas, materials, taxes, employee wages, etc. how much do you figure you make an hour?

Insurance is a big one, it really can eat into your bottom line. The company I work for does about 20 million per year in work. Everyone eats but no one is getting rich.

[westcoastplumber]

Insurance is a big one, it really can eat into your bottom line. The company I work for does about 20 million per year in work. Everyone eats but no one is getting rich.



Darn, I think it is better to stay smaller, keep overhead down. 20 million a year has a large expense report that comes along with that. The key is overhead, overhead, overhead, keep the cost down as much as possible. from to a 1/2" 90 to a dirty rag, keep the overhead lowwwwwwww:eek::D

[gear junkie]

If you start out with the proper business plan you will always make more money on your own. It may be slow starting but if you stick with it you will make it. In addition, to your income you are also building assets when you own your own business.

Mark

Mark what kind of assets are you talking about? How did you learn about starting your business?

[westcoastplumber]

Mark what kind of assets are you talking about? How did you learn about starting your business?


Assets like customer base, yellow page ad listing position, vans, equipment and commercial property you aquire, material inventory etc.

[ToUtahNow]

Mark what kind of assets are you talking about? How did you learn about starting your business?

Robert pretty much covered it in his post.

As far as starting my own business I learned by making lots of mistakes but always sticking to my word. I pretty much ran my business like I run my life. You also have to know how to balance your receiveables so your charge jobs do not consume all of your time.

Mark

[TomSV650]

The reason for my question is that I'm trying to figure out what I want to do in my way distant future. Open my own business, work for someone else? I understand most people who start their own business do it for control (in a good way) rather than money. I'm just curious after all was said and done, what I would make. Maybe here's a better question; what rough percentage of your money is yours after everything is done and paid.

I also think you should consider how many other plumbers/drain cleaners there are in your area.....where I live the market is flooded. I sure in the heck wouldn't start a company here.

[ToUtahNow]

I also think you should consider how many other plumbers/drain cleaners there are in your area.....where I live the market is flooded. I sure in the heck wouldn't start a company here.

Then again Crappy Days (John) just started his business in San Diego in the last few years and claims to be doing well.

Mark

[Tieger plumbing]

This is not a flat rate discussion!!!! I'm interested for business owners, after everything is paid for i.e. gas, materials, taxes, employee wages, etc. how much do you figure you make an hour?


Depends last Thursday I installed two roof drains in less then 2 hours and charged $3,000 ($1,500 per drain 3" IC) and I was working alone total material cost drains and sheet lead was under $500 so I guess I averaged $1,000 per hr BUT that is not my personal best which was when I made $71,000 installing roof drains 55 in 28 hours using a helper (4 - 7 hr days).

I quote over the phoine main sewer cleaning MIN of $325 per half hr Video inspection starts at $500 up to 100 feet of 4" pipe

Regular plumbing like changing a washer service call is $150 per hr plus parts

Expert witness $2,000 per day (6 hrs)

But being in NYC we do have a higher cost of living so that has a lot to do with the pricing

[Ozone89]

This is not a flat rate discussion!!!! I'm interested for business owners, after everything is paid for i.e. gas, materials, taxes, employee wages, etc. how much do you figure you make an hour?

When we are busy..after all our expenses are paid (over-head,profit,materials,gas,etc..) we average anywhere between $250.00 - $600.00 in our pocket for the day. It all depends on the call though..you take the good with the bad. You will also have days, in where you will make nothing..it all depends.

1 day you may make $1,200.00 after all your expenses, or you may make $200.00. The phone ringing, dictates how much you make each day.

You work for your slow time...can't stress that enough. You will hit a lull in where you will be slow for a few weeks..and the stock pile of money you should be saving, will compensate you for your bills.

Pay attention to Uncle Sam..and the Supply house..you will never have a problem.
Also pay attention to your Supply house bills...go line by line. You will find that mistakes rarely ever go in your favor. Plus..shop your material..no need for someone to get in your pocket...it ads up over a course of a year.

[westcoastplumber]

Depends last Thursday I installed two roof drains in less then 2 hours and charged $3,000 ($1,500 per drain 3" IC) and I was working alone total material cost drains and sheet lead was under $500 so I guess I averaged $1,000 per hr BUT that is not my personal best which was when I made $71,000 installing roof drains 55 in 28 hours using a helper (4 - 7 hr days).

I quote over the phoine main sewer cleaning MIN of $325 per half hr Video inspection starts at $500 up to 100 feet of 4" pipe

Regular plumbing like changing a washer service call is $150 per hr plus parts

Expert witness $2,000 per day (6 hrs)

But being in NYC we do have a higher cost of living so that has a lot to do with the pricing



Rick are you going to comment.............. you must have something to say:confused:

[PLUMBER RICK]

Rick are you going to comment.............. you must have something to say:confused:

i didn't want to say it, but here we go again:eek:

i know nyc is probably a tad more expensive to live than southern calif. but with numbers like that i can't imagine the average homeowner can afford to clean their sewer of fix a dripping faucet.

i would think the roof drains was a competitive bid?

welcome to the forum and let the fun begin:rolleyes:

rick.

[Ozone89]

We(Pa) were always told to TRIPLE what we make..to find out what New Yorker's make in the City.

Quick story...

We were going to take a job in Manhatten a few years ago, and the guy told us..if you don't tip the elevator operator $200.00 a day..you won't see the elevator! This job was 3 months long..you do the math.

Guess which career I wanted to switch too?


PLUS..we would of had to park our truck a few blocks a way, and leave a note on the dash, in which building we were working in, in case we had to move it!

New York Plumbing wages, are on a different stratosphere then most of us.

[PLUMBER RICK]

We(Pa) were always told to TRIPLE what we make..to find out what New Yorker's make in the City.

Quick story...

We were going to take a job in Manhatten a few years ago, and the guy told us..if you don't tip the elevator operator $200.00 a day..you won't see the elevator! This job was 3 months long..you do the math.

Guess which career I wanted to switch too?


PLUS..we would of had to park our truck a few blocks a way, and leave a note on the dash, in which building we were working in, in case we had to move it!

New York Plumbing wages, are on a different stratosphere then most of us.

i do a lot of work in the business district/ medical suites of beverly hills. we can't legally park on the street/ meter without a city issued paid permit. the alleys are limited to 15 minutes for loading and unloading.

i can't imagine that nyc. is that much more out of line than beverly hills:confused::confused:

$325 for 1/2 hr. of drain cleaning is outrageous:eek:.

i can't imagine that is what the going rate is:confused:

rick

[Josh]

I can hear everyone packing their bags to move to NY :p

Welcome Tieger Plumbing. good to have another NYer on the board.

[BigThom]

Hey, I make $20,000 per day. Unfortunately I haven't worked since I put my current fee schedule into effect.

[westcoastplumber]

Yeah, NYC, here I come!! I will deal with the parking if I can charge, with a clear mind, $300-$500 hr:D:D

[Josh]

Plus housing aint that much more than CA. Work for 20 years in NY then retire back to CA when you are 45 :D

Yeah, NYC, here I come!! I will deal with the parking if I can charge, with a clear mind, $300-$500 hr:D:D

[PLUMBER RICK]

Yeah, NYC, here I come!! I will deal with the parking if I can charge, with a clear mind, $300-$500 hr:D:D

robert, at that kind of money, we could hire a limo company to drop us off and stay with the van. the driver will worry about parking, gas and tickets.

i think a limo is $80 an hour. and drain cleaning is $650. an hour.

imagine the look on the customers face when you pull up in a limo.

imagine the look on the customers face when you give them the drain cleaning bill:eek:

lets pull up a nyc yellow pages and get some realistic #'s:D

almost forgot, i don't recommend the yellow pages:eek:

almost forgot. the only time i've been ripped off on ebay, was a few weeks ago buying a new k-50 from a nyc mechanical contractor. i guess times are tuff and he had to sell his equipment. problem is he was selling nothing:eek:

rick.

not sure if tieger plumbing can afford to post here.

at his going price, the post will cost him hundreds in lost wages:rolleyes:

[Tieger plumbing]

i do a lot of work in the business district/ medical suites of beverly hills. we can't legally park on the street/ meter without a city issued paid permit. the alleys are limited to 15 minutes for loading and unloading.

i can't imagine that nyc. is that much more out of line than beverly hills:confused::confused:

$325 for 1/2 hr. of drain cleaning is outrageous:eek:.

i can't imagine that is what the going rate is:confused:

rick



Rick, think about this before you say "outrageous" I have an account that has 21 - 3" leader lines and wanted a per unit price which I quoted $125 each.
At that time I used 1/2 snake and a garden hose and averaged 2 drains in an hour. I contacted Ridgid and spoke to the area manager Jay Blau about how long it takes to clear mud and leaves using a snake.

Jay came to the job site with a KJ 1250 and and showed me how it works, I did all 21 lines 8 hours... I called my supplier and orded the Jetter with all the bells and whistles that came with it.

This machine paid for itself the very first day I used it. (about 12 years ago)

The house directly across the street saw me working and asked what kind of machine I was using and I explained how water jetting is better for soft stoppages and we agreed $125 per leader for 17 of them.

I called Jay and a gentleman at Rigid (Tim Smith) and he told me about a gas powered one KJ 2200 and it would fit the same cart I bought for the electric model and use the same hoses.

When the 2,200 arrived I did both houses in approximately 10 hours 21 + 17 x $125 which more then paid for the 2200 gas jetter.

I was impressed with the added pressure and volume I then contacted a company called Jet Max bought a 3010 (3,000 PSI 10 GPM 25 HP Kohler engine) so now I am able to do these drains in a 6-7 hr day one man
Of course doing these jobs on a yearly basis makes it a lot easier as there is less acclimation of debris in the lines.

What I find strange here I am as an LMP with years and years of schooling and if I charge $200 per hr to replace a washer or ball cock some people say wow and call a BBC YET when I use an auger to clear a toilet stoppage and it takes 7 minutes they do not have any problem paying the "service call" of $200.

Rick, why dont you one day go to an office building a high rise preferably that has several hundred law firms working there and then ask each law firm their hourly rate.

Some are willing to work for $100 per hr others charge over $1,000
Same building same licenses but each person knows what they feel they are worth and what they can charge.
Why should I work a 40 -60 hr week when I can make the same amount working 15 -20 hrs a week

Even some doctors are content to accepting insurance payments and others refuse to accept it you pay them and you worry about collecting.
I retired at 40 and became so bored I started working again but now its more like a hobby as I can cherry pick my accounts.
Suppose you double your prices and lose 50% of your accounts wont you make the same money for working half the hours?
You call it "outragious" I call it being independent

[Tieger plumbing]

Plus housing aint that much more than CA. Work for 20 years in NY then retire back to CA when you are 45 :D

Nope my insurance One man is $57,000 plus I have to have a commerical store front ($1,200 per month) plus utilities and insurance for the office and maintain my vans and equipment.

NYC will not let a LMP work out of their home unless it is comerically zoned.

[HouseOfAtlas]

Nope my insurance One man is $57,000 plus I have to have a commerical store front ($1,200 per month) plus utilities and insurance for the office and maintain my vans and equipment.

$57k?? Is that what the average rate is around the country? If so, that's just nuts!! You'd have to charge probably $60/hour just to survive!

[Bob D.]

$57k?? Is that what the average rate is around the country? If so, that's just nuts!! You'd have to charge probably $60/hour just to survive!

$60 would not be enough, that would be starvation wages.

120,000 ($60*2000 Hr )
-57,000 Insurance
_________
$63,000

Now take taxes, SSI, Medicare, Health Ins. Licenses, vehicle expenses, tool repairs and replacement (except the RIDGID stuff, that lasts forever) storefront rental and maintenance, etc. from that $63K and if you've got two nickles left, you're doing good.

Oh and don't forget the $125 to buy a new copy of the code :(

[PLUMBER RICK]

Nope my insurance One man is $57,000 plus I have to have a commerical store front ($1,200 per month) plus utilities and insurance for the office and maintain my vans and equipment.

NYC will not let a LMP work out of their home unless it is comerically zoned.

tieger the only thing that you stated that is off the wall is your insurance cost.

the majority of my customers are doctors and lawyers. along with homeowner associations. my insurance is steep for the home owner associations, but your's is nuts. i can't imagine every 1 man plumbing shop is that much.

the equipment you mentioned is just a drop in the bucket of what i own. your $1200 a month rent, doesn't even compare to what my shop cost me a month that i own. still by charging twice as much and working half as much is not exactly something to be proud of. it tells me that the customers are paying for your laziness.

i would love to see your insurance coverage. i know what i pay and others know what they pay, but i don't think for a second your liability insurance for a 1 man shop is 57,000.

simple math tell me that's $1096.00 a week and $156.00 a day 7 days a week , 52 weeks a year. it doesn't add up in my books.

there might be a reason why your rates are so high, i just can't figure it out since i shop mine every year. i don't do steam boilers.

if that's how you run your business great, nothing i would be proud of or would want to share with your customers.

retiring at 40 is great, but at whose expense did it come?


rick.

robert, you see what you started:eek:

[gear junkie]

So how much do you make an hour?

[westcoastplumber]

LoL, had to do it for the fun:D I do agree on some of the points, I don't agree with the insurance cost, that must be a typo, not for a 1 man shop.

Continue the discussion, I am going to get some pop-corn!

[Josh]

Its seems like any thread that discusses money always leads to arguments. Hope this stays more civil than the mole electrocution thread. :D:D

[ToUtahNow]

Sylvan obviously needs to have higher rates than everyone else when you figure he is only working 15 hour weeks and paying $71,400.00 just for insurance and store rental (incredibly cheap by the way). At $100 per hour he would only have $7.17 per hour left to pay for his vans, utilities, equipment, taxes and his own personal salary.

Mark

[Ozone89]

I'm all for everyone making as much money as possible. Regardless if you're hourly or flat rate.


True Story -

I took the Master Plumber test in New Jersey..and they have business and law on the test. Well..the state gives an example(in their text book) of how you should charge for a job. Some of you guys would have a heart attack at how much they say we should charge.

It all boils down to the economics of business. Look how much a builder makes on the sale of a house they build.

Lawyers make loads of money to know the law and argue for you. My buddy got charged $300.00 for a 30 minute phone conversation with his lawyer.

I also saw a program that states..Plumbing systems installed should be 17% of the cost of the home.

I hope everyone here makes as much money as possible.

[westcoastplumber]

Since we are on the subject of money, I will have to make a comment on the conversation I had this morning with the owner of a plumbing company.

He uses a flat rate book when he quotes his job, he shows the customer his book, they are very happy when he gives them the lower price of the 2 prices in the book.

:D:D:D:D

[Drain Medic]

Since we are on the subject of money, I will have to make a comment on the conversation I had this morning with the owner of a plumbing company.

He uses a flat rate book when he quotes his job, he shows the customer his book, they are very happy when he gives them the lower price of the 2 prices in the book.

:D:D:D:D

I do the same thing. I will bring the book in, show the customers the 3 columns i have.... Service, Preferred, AddonThen they ask, how do we get to be preferred customer...show them how...Then i will usually tell them, let me give you your options..To this day i have never had a price complaint, objection, or recall on a price..Customers love it Greg

[gear junkie]

Since we are on the subject of money, I will have to make a comment on the conversation I had this morning with the owner of a plumbing company.

He uses a flat rate Robert what did you do?!! You said dreaded F.R. word!!:eek::Dbook when he quotes his job, he shows the customer his book, they are very happy when he gives them the lower price of the 2 prices in the book.

:D:D:D:D

Thanks Robert, you've sabatoged my thread. No worries, it'll get interesting real soon.:)

[ToUtahNow]

How'd we go from hourly profit to flat-rape pricing?

Mark :D

[Drain Medic]

How'd we go from hourly profit to flat-rape pricing?

Mark :D


Its all the same...still need hourly percentages to make up flat rate

[DuckButter]

I had a conversation with a customer of mine that I was doing a remodel for.
He was hemming over the prices he'd gotten from builders, electricians and plumbers.
He said "I went to 4 years of college, have over ten years experience as a programmer and I sub at $75 on projects...why should I pay a guy $85-$100 to do manual labor??"
I asked him how much his equipment costs, travel time/gas, advertizing and overall expenses.
His start-up figure was around 3K...for a high end computer, editing software and compiler, he worked from home so travel was minimal, his source for work was online - no advertizing needed.
After giving him a crude itemization of my overhead he said "OK...gotcha...lets chalk that up to inexperience and change the topic before your rate goes up!"
Ben, I bill at least 3 times what I "need" to make an hour IF I were employed 40 steady hours a week.

On smaller jobs I won't pull out the truck keys if I'm not making more then that per hour...I tell the customer up front what my rate will be and warn them if any additional work is needed it'll be more.
I've made $2,500. in one day, but then I've gone a week with nothing.
I think "Ozone" said something to the effect that you have to bill with the frame of mind that work WILL slow down.
Thats about right on target.

[Ozone89]

Duck -

If the guy had 4 years of College, I'm pretty positive he took an economics class...he should of realized that from the start. Every once in awhile I get the same questions from customers, and I explain it the same way you do. Customers forget, that we are bringing OUR SHOP to them.

Customers also think we are stuffing that money in our pockets..I wish it was that easy. We all know how much this stuff costs to operate a business.

Customers fail to realize, the rate we give them, covers all of our expenses to fix there problem.

On the other hand..there are laws for price gouging, to protect the consumer. I agree 100% that if I'm not getting my rate, I wont start the truck..I'd rather sit home an lose money, then go out and beat up my truck and equipment, so someone can throw a few dollars at me.

I also agree with you on...whatever rate I give for the job..it doesn't mean you add on 5 other things, because they think it covers the time while I'm there. I've had to explain that a few times to people, after I was upfront about it.

Bottom line is..we are entitled to charge for Overhead,Profit,and wages for the task at hand.

There are many professions who mirror the same things we do, when it comes to charging.

[DuckButter]

Ozone..LOL...You should know better!
College has had little bearing on some of the far fetched assumptions we see almost daily.
One of the worst "offenders" are engineers, you'd think they, of all people would recognize the importance of doing things right, yet it's the call from the wife that usually gets the ball rolling on some pretty ugly DIY repairs.

[Ozone89]

Speaking of Engineers, I had an Engineer one time, who installed a Fluid Master ball cock, and for the life of him, he couldn't figure out why it was leaking at the tank.

So I head on over there..and I asked.."where are the little parts that came with this ballcock?" The Engineer didn't know he had to use that black washer. He also didn't know that the center piece can be pushed out! I'm sure it clearly explains that in the directions sent along with it. He really felt stupid afterwards...extremely stupid.

Ya know..I shouldn't laugh though...I had a stupid attack a few times. I'll never forget the time I forgot to "knock out" the stop on a garbage grinder for the dishwasher hose...LOL.

[Tieger plumbing]

I can hear everyone packing their bags to move to NY :p

Welcome Tieger Plumbing. good to have another NYer on the board.


Thank you Josh, It is hard to imagine doing business in Manhattan so members of my plumbers list decided to pay me a visit one from Australia and one from Washington state one from New Jersey etc

What really surprised them was the lack of mileage on my vans.
My 1995 GMC 3500 has less then 40,000 my 2005 Ford less then 6,000 and my Dodge 1991 B 350 8,400 and when they rode around with me going from the East side to the West took over 45 minutes to go 1 mile. They told me they travel over 100 miles a day If I travel 3 miles a day normally its a lot

The insurance on commercial work is horrendous, parking there is no such thing as a permit you pay meter parking I think it is now $9.00 for an hr and they used to tow away the trucks.

I spend more time waiting for an elevator then doing the actual installations plus the union buildings shut down from 12- 1 so if you do not have all your materials on the roof your dead.

I have been installing roof drains for well over 40 years as I am a 3rd generation roofer before becoming a plumber which really helps having that back ground
Normally I will receive a calling "go to 2XX Delancy street see the supt and install the drains"

No mention of size or materials and many are lead pipe (one was lead pipe 6" diameter I never saw that before) and are copper boxes lead wiped to the lead and were installed in the late 1800's

Some are galvanized and others are cast iron so there is no way to give a price as many were sleeved over the years and looking down you may see a 3" opening and find the actual drain is 5" or 6" and NO access below

So I now quote a drain will cost to install a minimum of $1,200 up to 4" depending on model.

Last year sheet lead cost me .80 per pound NOW it cost me $2.85 and I normally use 3 x 3 x 4 PSF

The Cast Iron drains last year cost me under $80 now over $160 plus the cast Iron domes are extra

I open the roof remove the old drain install a new drain install the sheet lead and flash it all in and in many cases a roofer does not come behind me for several months if at all so I am taking full responsibility for guaranteeing the water tight integrity on a drain on high rise buildings over computer rooms and or museums.

Merrill Lynch told me when I installed the 43 roof drains that every hour their computers are down they lose over 1 million dollars in transactions THATS PRESSURE to make sure not a drop of water gets into the computer rooms and someone has to pay for it.

About the $325.00 for a main sewer cleaning think how much it would cost to hire a toxic clean up crew to remove raw sewerage from a living space and the cost of replacement inlaid flooring or carpeting.

Some plumbers have this self hate feeling thinking they cant charge enough to live in a million dollar home and some work in new construction where they are used to being a low ball bidder.

I posted all over the net go to any office building and ask the law firms how much they charge by the hr same building same licenses and you will have varied prices from $100 to over $1,000 per hr.

Go for an MRI and see how much that cost and our equipment also is expensive and we have to figure in wear and tear and replacement costs.

NYC has more millionaires then any other state and our mayor is the richest New YAWKER so when one decided to be a "plumber" in this area they have to make a decision.

Do I want lots of volume at cut rate prices or be upper middle class and charge accordingly.

I am far from being the highest priced. I just cherry pick my accounts and the area I want to work in.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Merrill Lynch told me when I installed the 43 roof drains that every hour their computers are down they lose over 1 million dollars in transactions THATS PRESSURE to make sure not a drop of water gets into the computer rooms and someone has to pay for it.

About the $325.00 for a main sewer cleaning think how much it would cost to hire a toxic clean up crew to remove raw sewerage from a living space and the cost of replacement inlaid flooring or carpeting.

Some plumbers have this self hate feeling thinking they cant charge enough to live in a million dollar home and some work in new construction where they are used to being a low ball bidder.

I posted all over the net go to any office building and ask the law firms how much they charge by the hr same building same licenses and you will have varied prices from $100 to over $1,000 per hr.

Go for an MRI and see how much that cost and our equipment also is expensive and we have to figure in wear and tear and replacement costs.

NYC has more millionaires then any other state and our mayor is the richest New YAWKER so when one decided to be a "plumber" in this area they have to make a decision.

Do I want lots of volume at cut rate prices or be upper middle class and charge accordingly.

I am far from being the highest priced. I just cherry pick my accounts and the area I want to work in.

there is a difference between a handyman and a plumbing professional. a professional knows how to deal with the hazards of the trade.

interesting that your mileage and my mileage are almost identical. i drive 6000 miles a year. i work in some of the priciest real estate in the nation, for some of the most famous people and yet i can charge $80. an hour and not have to worry about the phone ringing. i own every piece of equipment one can think of. i own my own commercial 2500' shop. i own my own home. yet i don't need to charge an arm and a leg to justify what i consider the cost of doing business.

an if you think you're the only one to work in fancy buildings with fancy computers, think again.

i can't imagine the look on my customers faces if i try to charge the prices you posted. don't care if it's an average joe or a multi millionaire.

try parking in the commercial district of beverly hills one day.

i think a million dollar mri machine is a little bit more costly than a top of the line sewer camera and locator. i only have 8 of them.

i'm just amazed at the way you justify your prices. especially for someone like yourself that's been at it for such a long time.

if your honest, work hard and do a good job, anyone can become a millionaire. don't expect it to happen overnight.

rick.

[ChrisConnor]

And so it begins....

Now Sylvan will tell the story of his wonderful JetMax jetter and how he charges $125.00 per hour per man. and people will gasp and gaw. Then Sylvan will show pictures of his drunken fracas at the embassy and a few lead roof drain pics. Then after a few have grown weary, Sylvan will pick one special person to go on and on with. After a few weeks of this antagonization, Sylvan will say that it was all in fun.


Right, Pal?

[ToUtahNow]

And so it begins....

Now Sylvan will tell the story of his wonderful JetMax jetter and how he charges $125.00 per hour per man. and people will gasp and gaw. Then Sylvan will show pictures of his drunken fracas at the embassy and a few lead roof drain pics. Then after a few have grown weary, Sylvan will pick one special person to go on and on with. After a few weeks of this antagonization, Sylvan will say that it was all in fun.


Right, Pal?

It sounds as though there may be some history here but Sylvan stated he is a one man shop who charges $200 for a service call and $1,000 per hour for camera work. Perhaps you have the wrong Sylvan of Tieger Plumbing?

Mark

[PLUMBER RICK]

And so it begins....

Now Sylvan will tell the story of his wonderful JetMax jetter and how he charges $125.00 per hour per man. and people will gasp and gaw. Then Sylvan will show pictures of his drunken fracas at the embassy and a few lead roof drain pics. Then after a few have grown weary, Sylvan will pick one special person to go on and on with. After a few weeks of this antagonization, Sylvan will say that it was all in fun.


Right, Pal?

$125.00 an hour for that jetter would not be an issue. $1000.00 an hour is:eek:

sounds like sylvan has a cult following, or an interesting past:confused:

rick.

[plumberscrack]

And so it begins....

Now Sylvan will tell the story of his wonderful JetMax jetter and how he charges $125.00 per hour per man. and people will gasp and gaw. Then Sylvan will show pictures of his drunken fracas at the embassy and a few lead roof drain pics. Then after a few have grown weary, Sylvan will pick one special person to go on and on with. After a few weeks of this antagonization, Sylvan will say that it was all in fun.


Right, Pal?

That's an interesting introspective Chris I must say ;)

Rick = 'special person' :confused: :D

[Tieger plumbing]

And so it begins....

Now Sylvan will tell the story of his wonderful JetMax jetter and how he charges $125.00 per hour per man. and people will gasp and gaw. Then Sylvan will show pictures of his drunken fracas at the embassy and a few lead roof drain pics. Then after a few have grown weary, Sylvan will pick one special person to go on and on with. After a few weeks of this antagonization, Sylvan will say that it was all in fun.


Right, Pal?

Hi Chris, I still see your behind the times (as usual) my $125 per hr per man rate went up more then 3 years ago and JETMAX Which was a great company run by Tom went out of business about 2 years ago after his business got hammered by a tropical storm that hit Fla.


The Jetmax Jetter FYI is still going strong and the Kohler 25 HP command engine really is a work horse BUT then again you never did care to know facts. Your the typical BBC folks think of when they look for cheap prices

Chris do you still use th hand crank to snake out lines?

RE: the Embassy what can one say when their accounts invite them to parties like the UN and at the embassy's I work for (told you I cherry pick my accounts) . Don't worry Chris you will never have this type of client's as you never do contribute anything but try to nit pick.

By the way did you notice the picture of Rudy G and me at a republican fund raiser?

FYI $1,000 per plate and I went twice and took several guests? $10,000 TWICE pal

As i know you love to eat your heart out following me all over the net you can see Rudy and me on other sites if you look under Tieger plumbing on any search engine.

You really should try to keep abreast of changes and take an active role in conversations not spewing the nonsense your known for guy.

Trying to raise the bar is something you seem to be totally against. Have a great one Chris and who knows possibly in 10 or 15 years you to can charge a living rate ONCE you learn the trade properly :-)

[mrs. westcoast]

You mean this picture? Could shed some pounds off:):)

Welcome to Mr. Sylvan Tieger's articles on plumbing and heating, plumbing codes, gas, sewer, environmental issues and other interesting topics. Please read about his training and experience below. 7/13/65- 7/18/68 United State Navy Boiler Tender/Rigger (17 -21 years old)
1969 - Joined plumbers local Union # 2 for year apprenticeship (1969-1974) 10,000 hours OJT ( on the job training) plus 744 hours of class room studies
Received 5 certificates of completion (1 for each of the 5 years) code, theory, welding, blue print drawing/reading gas piping systems, water supply. drainage (all types)

Passed Federal testing for Stationary Engineer to work on Air conditioning plants with central absorption systems and high pressure steam 125# and Electrical services up to 440 V 1981 - Passed an American Society of Mechanical Engineers course of low pressure Boiler and unfired pressure Vessel inspector as given by Oklahoma University (Federal Boiler inspector and unfired pressure vessel inspector) for the US government
1982 - received my Master plumbers License. Continued taking technical courses roofing inspection and several courses on welding from Nassau Research.
1983 - started my own business doing plumbing, hydronic and steam heating, gas fitting, drain cleaning and low pressure boiler inspections.
http://masterplumber.net/stlmp/sylvan_crew.jpg
Sylvan & "The Crew" Bought out another plumbing/heating company and started another company doing high rise fire suppression systems and pump installations and large boilers continuing my repair business and alterations. Doing commercial, residential, institutional and industrial work.
Going to other area's and taking several more master plumbers licenses and doing roof drain installations (specialization). Continued taking courses and receiving more diplomas in heating and Fire suppression training. As a New York Master Plumber. I am Licensed and Certified do all aspects of Gas fitting - drainage and plumbing.
1986 - Received my master fire suppression piping contractors license.
During my free time, I was an Auxiliary police officer for the city of NY going on patrol and taking several police emergency courses and passed my Sergeants test.
For the US Postal Service I gave welding safety classes and instructed the safety department how to find cross connections of the potable water systems and did numerous asbestos abatement inspections.
I worked as a Safety inspector for the plant Manager of Manhattan and as a certified unfired pressure vessel and low pressure boiler inspector for the North Regional office.
I worked on writing plumbing codes and fire safety.
For the General Services administration I was certified for plumbing and roofing.
http://masterplumber.net/stlmp/nyc_mayor.jpg
NYC Mayor Juliano & Sylvan (Left to Right)At the Federal building in Manhattan I was in charge of the operation of the plant I continue to take courses relating to my profession as this is a never ending education


http://www.bobvila.com/BBS/images/BBS_UserImages/TOPIC_0x/TOPIC_5/Thread9xxx/9739-Sylvan_Tieger.jpg

http://members.aol.com/tiegerlmp/myhomepage/sylvan_retouch.jpg


I DID MY HOMEWORK

[plumberscrack]

Chris and Tieger have history together? :confused:

I find it interesting they both joined this forum the same day :confused:

[Nevada plumber]

Sylvan has posted on other plumbing forums that I read. He runs his business the way he wants to, and that can rub some people the wrong way. His prices sound high to me, but I live and work in a totally different environment then he does. Will I complain about what he charges? No. I have people complain about what I charge, and that drives me nuts. That's why a lot people go into business for themselves. To run the business how they want to. If Sylvan is able to make a living that suits his style, more power to him.

[Tieger plumbing]

$125.00 an hour for that jetter would not be an issue. $1000.00 an hour is:eek:

sounds like sylvan has a cult following, or an interesting past:confused:

rick.

Hi Rick, what is interesting is how Chris or anyone can say $125.00 an hr for water jetting. I guess the labor cost is not taken into consideration or the cost of having an office and the cost of gasoline (if applicable) and insurance and of course the Jetter was at the job site and no van was needed to get the jetter to the site and hoses last forever and never need replacement and the nozzles are FREE.

Being in NYC I am paying my mechanic's between $35 - $45 per hr in the envelope not including benefits.

Chris thinks an employee should be given a non living wage as only he should make a semi decent living and it just is not how to make friends and influence people.

Even my helpers started off at $25 per hr (providing they have a clean drivers license)

Phones, yellow page ads, vans, equipment, office staff, insurance, taking classes to keep abreast of code changes all cost money and $125 per hr will not cut it unless your in death valley and have little or no liability working in a log cabin.

Also because the Jetter is 3,000 PSI @10 GPM and the liability involved OSHA and having a jetter in the street unattended while someone is using a foot peddle is a law suit looking to happen... THUS using the high pressure jetter should be a two man job. Suppose a hose ruptures or a child goes near the machine? Remember there are 8 million people in NYC half walking around looking for a law suit, so a machine can not be left unattended.

Chris thinks $125 will cover the true cost of running a business and doesn't mind working a 60 hr work week to make ends meet.

Jetting takes longer then snaking and Jetting equipment cost a lot more and Jetters need to be maintained more then a snake does so it stands to reason using this kind of equipment one has to charge more for its use.

Hoses in cast iron lines do get torn up a lot faster then a 3/4 cable.

A properly maintained cable that is cleaned as it is being retracted and oiled after use can last years, a Jetter hose is not as rugged and thus the wear has to be considered in the pricing and the expertise of using this kind of equipment.

Unfortunately Chris was not in class that day when the instructor told us about profit and loss and employee compensation, so he is a believer the $125 goes into the pocket and everyone works out of their house with an answering machine

They be out there, good thang he works a lot of hours rather then charge prices commiserate with ones skill level. So if he thinks $125 per hr is fair pricing for a machine that cost in excess of $14,000 more power to him...

[gear junkie]

If Sylvan feels comfortable charging his prices and he can sleep at night about it; then that's his perrogative. I am in no way defending him because I do feel he is a scam artist ($1000 per hr camera job) but that's his business and he runs it the way he wants. I will continue to be successful by #1 working hard and #2 charging fair prices NOT BY charging way too much for the same amount of work. My house will not be built on the backs of my customers. It will be built by hard work.

[ChrisConnor]

Mr. T, I do believe that again we have gotten off on the wrong foot. Let me clarify.

$125.00 an hour was just for the technicians ,correction for the PLUMBERS, not the equipment. I did not know you current pricing, as I've not been on YOUR board for some time, but it's nice to know that you are still the same old blow hard.

Yes I know that JetmaX went out of business.

$14,000.00 is cheap, buy a REAL trailer jet @ $30,000 plus-US JET 4018 (4000 psi 18gpm)

I see that you still haven't learned about the real power of the waterjet, as I tried to school you on the Warthog nozzle six years ago, but alas if it wasn't covered in your 10,000 hour class I guess it doesn't count.

Perhaps you are too closed minded or your brain is full.


I charge more than you do anyway, with less overhead to boot.

I was getting to make a joke about how you tout who you are and what you do and what you have, it's funny you are telling the same old stories.

Are you still using that junk fluidmaster 400?

In true fashion, you tell the story of your Microengineering brand camera and how they were bought out by My-Tana (it's My-Tana, NOT My-TANYA) you've always got that wrong. (Wow sylvan that buyout was way back in 2001).

What the heck is a Mechanic? Are you a garage or a plumbing shop?

Let's not forget to mention your beloved subaru, oh, wait I better leave some stories for you to tell.


Guiliani? $1000.00 per plate, you told a similar story in 2003, I can't seem to remember what fundraiser it was though, probably the same one you are still crowing about. How much is the interest on that credit card, haven't you paid it off yet

C'mon you can do better than that, RONPAUL2008.com

You can't see the forest for the trees.

[gear junkie]

Chris, what's the history between you two?

[ToUtahNow]

If Sylvan feels comfortable charging his prices and he can sleep at night about it; then that's his perrogative. I am in no way defending him because I do feel he is a scam artist ($1000 per hr camera job) but that's his business and he runs it the way he wants. I will continue to be successful by #1 working hard and #2 charging fair prices NOT BY charging way too much for the same amount of work. My house will not be built on the backs of my customers. It will be built by hard work.

Ben your ethic are more important than the balance in your bank account or toys in your garage. You will do fine for yourself and your customers.

Mark

[ToUtahNow]

Chris,

It sounds like the jetter Sylvan is using is the JetMax 3010 which is just a mediocre jetter which costs less than nine grand brand new before they went out of business. Comparing his jetter to a US Jet 4018 is hardly a fair comparison. That's like comparing his Auto-Spin to one of Rick's K-60s.

Regardless of the above we are pretty good here with using our BS meters for those who spend too much time praising themselve's. I would like to welcome you to the forum but ask that you try to leave your distain for Slyvan at the door and we will judge him for ourselves.

Mark

[ChrisConnor]

I know Sylvan from the old SCL (sewer cleaners list), PDL (plumbers discussion list). He was banned from the PDL for being AA (antagonistic and abrasive). He then started his own YAHOO list, the PiPDL (politically incorrect plumbers discussion list).

He has written a couple of E-articles on masterplumbers.com

He has been there, done that and will tell you all about it.

Sylvan doesn't discuss much, just tells you how to do it his way and how any other way is wrong. Then he spouts his credentials, talks about some sort of job that may or not be related and how things are in New York.

Pretty much what you've seen here recently. Sylvan is just a nice Jewish boy with a Me,Me,Me complex.

He will be around as long as he can be the center of attention and then repost this forums discussions on his own board. He loves when people talk about him.

[ChrisConnor]

but ask that you try to leave your distain for Slyvan at the door and we will judge him for ourselves.

Mark


HUH?

You think I DON'T like Sylvan?

Nothing could be further from the truth. That was just my way of welcoming Mr. Tieger. Nothing more than a little jab for an old PAL that I haven't seen for a while. Isn't that right, GUY?

(Sylvan likes it when you use all caps sometimes)

[PLUMBER RICK]

I know Sylvan from the old SCL (sewer cleaners list), PDL (plumbers discussion list). He was banned from the PDL for being AA (antagonistic and abrasive). He then started his own YAHOO list, the PiPDL (politically incorrect plumbers discussion list).


sylvan hasn't met our watch "dog" yet.

let's see dogs opinion on this one. although dog is a new construction man, i think dogs ethics will still shine through;)

rick.

[plumberscrack]

Personally, I think this forum could use a few more over educated, opinionated, pompous a$$ plumbers talking about themselves. :eek::D:eek:

It keeps things real :D

[westcoastplumber]

I agree, I am interested:p

[Tieger plumbing]

LoL, had to do it for the fun:D I do agree on some of the points, I don't agree with the insurance cost, that must be a typo, not for a 1 man shop.

Continue the discussion, I am going to get some pop-corn!

Nope NOT a misquote $57,000

Manhattan, the NYC housing authority wants $5,000,000 coverage to install a roof drain (YES FIVE MILLION) ask your agent how much that would cost you

Office has to be covered fire, theft and liability if someone falls in the snow etc.
Medical $1,400 per month (and it is going up)

Umbrella policy to cover my home, Van (3) insurance car insurance Liability on my Fire Suppression license was over $29,000 alone because If a sprinkler fails and flood in a building in NYC you have to figure 12 floors of apartments can be involved

If the sprinkler fails to function during a fire and a life is lost there is a bigger claim.

Do not take my word call your own insurance agent and ask what would be the cost of general liability for a commercial building water damage on a 42 story structure if a roof drain leaks

One MORON carried $200,000 insurance working in a condo and he caused a major leak that destroyed a Picasso and other priceless antiques.

A one family home even costing in the millions has ONE main shut off normally very easily accessible how do you stop a 10,000 gallon roof tank from flooding once you bust a galvanized line.

A little leak these days is cause for a major lawsuit because of Mold damage alone.

I work as an expert witness and seeing some "victim" burning his child's foot because the "water was to hot" and the insurance company settled out of court for $800,000 rather then say this moron turned on the hot water never tested the temperature and just placed his child in scalding water and they reward people for their stupidity as now they are victims who are entitled to be compensated for being stupid.

Did you know that NYC has five borough's and the insurance on cars can vary as much as $4,000 within a few blocks depending on the zone you live.
Ask any NYC plumbing contractor what is the biggest nut they have to crack, ask your own agents.

When folks ask how come I charge $350 for snaking a 4" sewer I say do you remember when gas cost 25 cents a gallon and a subway token was 15 cents and parking at a meter was 10 cents an hr (today $9.00)
My first car cost me $3,040 74 Plymouth Valent slant 6 engine my third car cost me slightly over $125,000

Things go up and the cost of insurance cost plumbers MORE then a pediatrician as my brother in law was paying $25,000 per year when mine was over $40,000 and I never had a claim against me.

So My prices reflect my over head and my profit and the cost of doing business.
A guy making $65.00 an hr in a small town is possibly netting more percentage wise then I am.

[Tieger plumbing]

If Sylvan feels comfortable charging his prices and he can sleep at night about it; then that's his perrogative. I am in no way defending him because I do feel he is a scam artist ($1000 per hr camera job) but that's his business and he runs it the way he wants. I will continue to be successful by #1 working hard and #2 charging fair prices NOT BY charging way too much for the same amount of work. My house will not be built on the backs of my customers. It will be built by hard work.


Gear Junkie, I posted on my list the reasons I charge the right price and a gentleman from Long Island called me and we went out to dinner Jim said you know I sleep great now being able to afford the things in life that I never thought possible and having no out standing bills is a great feeling.

Did you know that there was a discussion going on about cameras and the danger they pose in sanitary sewers in case the lens breaks and the spark hits a pocket of methane gas?

The newer safety heads would have added another $500 to the camera. How did I get this information one would ask?

By charging enough money I can afford to up grade (schooling) my talents and stay abreast of various code changes including those affecting sewer cleaning not just plumbing and heating

What is the difference between a doctor doing an endoscope and a Master of a trade doing a video inspection for diagnostic purposes?

The Masters are exposed to hepatitis several strands of this virus and many other highly toxic fumes found in sewers and if you think that placing yourself or your employees at risk you should not be compensated and you think being fair prices is short changing yourself is fair GOD BLESS YOU.

I just hope your not making to much money as you just may feel guilty making to much and have more time to spend with your family.

I base my year on 1,200 billable hours and I strive to work a lot less then that and still live in a certain life style.

The only time I felt guilty making money was when I was 17 years old in the Navy getting paid to learn about high pressure boilers and getting to travel all over Europe getting a 3 year paid vacation really made me feel terribly guilty.

Being A highly trained professional being compensated for my training, I still feel I deserve more just like I feel Bill Gates is under paid and Ted Kennedy should be in jail not being paid as a civil servant who cant pass a sobriety test IN MY OPINION.

To each his own but I do sleep soundly knowing my bills are current and I am able to give back to society with donations to Saint Jude and make a wish foundation and being a member of the NRA, life member DAV and I am fortunate to have made a darn good living to share the wealth and not live from hand to mouth wondering how am I going to afford a new car every two year .

Thank God for heroes like you that would rather take money out of your pocket and the people you work for say wow he charges a really cheap price.

Even hear the expression you normally get what you pay for well I found that to be true.. Are you sure your not charging a tad to much?

[ChrisConnor]

Ahh, the good old days!

Sylvan, don't for get to call your customers/clients VICTIMS.

Man, this brings back memories.

[freddy]

Welcome Tieger Plumbing, Finally someone who brings this trade up to what the real cost are. You are not going to find many supporters on this forum. These folks claim to have pride in there trade, but shrink down to little babies
when it come to holding a Quality price, for their learned trade. I guess they really feel that they are only as qualified as a handyman and therefore charge like one.
I for one charge 215.00 for outside drain cleaning on 4" drain. And Yes I sleep very good at night with my prices. I hate to think at the wages these guy would pay for a extra plumber. If they every could find one for their slave wages. Most likely a rent a drunk. Freddy

[Tieger plumbing]

Sylvan has posted on other plumbing forums that I read. He runs his business the way he wants to, and that can rub some people the wrong way. His prices sound high to me, but I live and work in a totally different environment then he does. Will I complain about what he charges? No. I have people complain about what I charge, and that drives me nuts. That's why a lot people go into business for themselves. To run the business how they want to. If Sylvan is able to make a living that suits his style, more power to him.

Hi Nevada, One of my accounts moved from my area to Nevada she was a writer for day time soaps and her husband was a senior editor for the New York times and both retired and she and now writes a column ask Sadie.

A few months after she sold her home and move your neck of the woods she called me and said Sylvan you have to move here its God's country.

Then told me when she sold her 3 bedroom home for 1.6 million and moved there her new home cost about $300,000 central air 4 bed roms and three bathrooms ( here she had window units) built in pool lots of land (here she has the property 35 ft x 70+)

Said the night life is amazing and a steak cost her only $11 (Manhattan figure $60)

Totally different style of living and of course a big difference in the cost of living.

She told me her basin was stopped up and the local guy charged her $35 and laughed how I charged her $125 as this was several years ago.

I bet the guy that charged the $35 got to put the entire amount in his pocket and I normally either bill my clients or let them pay VISA or Master or Discovery.

On a yearly bases the guy living in Nevada charging 1/3 my prices will have more money in his pocket to spend.

What did surprise me was the plumbers van had windows and no extra locks on the doors. My vans have locks like an armed truck and there is still break ins WHICH is part of the cost of doing business as theft has to also be taken into consideration

[ToUtahNow]

Welcome Tieger Plumbing, Finally someone who brings this trade up to what the real cost are. You are not going to find many supporters on this forum. These folks claim to have pride in there trade, but shrink down to little babies
when it come to holding a Quality price, for their learned trade. I guess they really feel that they are only as qualified as a handyman and therefore charge like one.
I for one charge 215.00 for outside drain cleaning on 4" drain. And Yes I sleep very good at night with my prices. I hate to think at the wages these guy would pay for a extra plumber. If they every could find one for their slave wages. Most likely a rent a drunk. Freddy

freddy,

I find it interesting that 16 months ago you were asking why the galvanized nipple you screwed into a copper adapter was corroding and today you are a plumber who charges $215 for outside drain cleaning on 4" drain.

I expect even Aaron at 16-years old found it kind of funny you would ask such a silly question and still profess to be a plumber. Mixing of dissimilar metals is one of the first things most learn as a helper.

Mark

[mrs. westcoast]

freddy,

I find it interesting that 16 months ago you were asking why the galvanized nipple you screwed into a copper adapter was corroding and today you are a plumber who charges $215 for outside drain cleaning on 4" drain.

I expect even Aaron at 16-years old found it kind of funny you would ask such a silly question and still profess to be a plumber. Mixing of dissimilar metals is one of the first things most learn as a helper.

Mark

You go Mark:):)

If sylvan was charging normal rates he wouldn't be able to have a dinner with his mayor:)

[ToUtahNow]

Zeljka,

Some of us have been in the business too long and know too much to take some of these guys too serious. The unfortunate part about the Internet is we don’t know if we are talking to full grown men or 13-year old girls. That is one of the nice parts about the interactions the Southern California group has had as we have met face to face.

Mark

BTW: I wasn't too impressed with Robert, Adam or Rick but you, Mellie and Joey are sure hotties. ;)

[drtyhands]

Welcome Tieger Plumbing, Finally someone who brings this trade up to what the real cost are. You are not going to find many supporters on this forum. These folks claim to have pride in there trade, but shrink down to little babies
when it come to holding a Quality price, for their learned trade. I guess they really feel that they are only as qualified as a handyman and therefore charge like one.
I for one charge 215.00 for outside drain cleaning on 4" drain. And Yes I sleep very good at night with my prices. I hate to think at the wages these guy would pay for a extra plumber. If they every could find one for their slave wages. Most likely a rent a drunk. Freddy
Freddy,

You are a talker,a salesman,the nu breed of Bu!!shi$$ers that do not understand how plumbing is designed or works,but let the customers believe that you know what you are talking about.

Sorry I missed the electrolisis issue.What's up with that PLUMMER freddy

What's up with the lack of respect,PAL.

I don't see anyone taking cold shots at anyone else as you have.

You guys do a lot of hot talk with no back:mad:

If you would like I can start giving you the attention you are hollering for.

It is ugly and counterproductive here for me to throw the switch on your lame,But your not going to post something like that and not get popped.You threw a sucker punch.Not cool

[freddy]

Well I could go into along story explaining that perticular job, but why bother. your just a consultant wanna bee. Could not make a good living in construction or no good at it, and now your just bitter that a few other shops are making money . by the way, Go get a real job. :D

[Tieger plumbing]

Mr. T, I do believe that again we have gotten off on the wrong foot. Let me clarify.

$125.00 an hour was just for the technicians ,correction for the PLUMBERS, not the equipment. I did not know you current pricing, as I've not been on YOUR board for some time, but it's nice to know that you are still the same old blow hard.

Yes I know that JetmaX went out of business.

$14,000.00 is cheap, buy a REAL trailer jet @ $30,000 plus-US JET 4018 (4000 psi 18gpm)

I see that you still haven't learned about the real power of the waterjet, as I tried to school you on the Warthog nozzle six years ago, but alas if it wasn't covered in your 10,000 hour class I guess it doesn't count.

Perhaps you are too closed minded or your brain is full.


I charge more than you do anyway, with less overhead to boot.

I was getting to make a joke about how you tout who you are and what you do and what you have, it's funny you are telling the same old stories.

Are you still using that junk fluidmaster 400?

In true fashion, you tell the story of your Microengineering brand camera and how they were bought out by My-Tana (it's My-Tana, NOT My-TANYA) you've always got that wrong. (Wow sylvan that buyout was way back in 2001).

What the heck is a Mechanic? Are you a garage or a plumbing shop?

Let's not forget to mention your beloved subaru, oh, wait I better leave some stories for you to tell.


Guiliani? $1000.00 per plate, you told a similar story in 2003, I can't seem to remember what fundraiser it was though, probably the same one you are still crowing about. How much is the interest on that credit card, haven't you paid it off yet

C'mon you can do better than that, RONPAUL2008.com

You can't see the forest for the trees.


Glad to still have a fan Club and YES you do remember the 400A and YES I Still use them as I like the idea of the tell tale sound they make when the Douglas valve tank bulb / flapper is failing.

The Guiliani dinner was ok BUT not as good as his first run or second run for mayor and although I did meet him several times I think Thompson is the guy for the job NOT HELLery

I am glad you are charging much more then I do, as I said I am not the highest priced and as long as more folks do like you did it makes it better for all as now the bar is going higher if everyone did like you price high and then higher.

The US Jet is a great machine no doubt about it BUT the largest sewer I have cleaned thus far was only 36" so the Jet max did a great job.

If your a drain professional why not go with O' Brian 7040 SC or a Vactor

Remember I am a Master plumber/ LMFSPC/ heating thus drain cleaning is more of a hobby as it gets me away from welding /soldering / brazing /pouring lead joints etc. and makes each day different.

I like drain cleaning but I would hate to do it for a living day after day.

The Subaru that you menthioned YES I do BUY one about EVERY two years and the 2003 Forrester (Forrester was great for heating calls) I traded in with 12,000 miles for a TURBO Legacy GT with the Boxer engine that put my Mercedes to shame in pick up and handling so I dumped the Benz.

0-60 in less then 6 sec 250 HP 160 MPH the dealer is said he can up the power by changing a chip or go to the WRX with 350 HP but its a much smaller car and all under $34,000 poormans Porche BEATS the hell out of the BMW 3 series

CALL SUBARU in Danbury Connecticut (call the 800 number) ask for the manager George and ask which NY City guy buys the most cars from him

Re Wart hog HOW do you put water in reverse once the cutter nozzle gets hung up?

Snakes are IDEAL and meant for hard stoppages and water jetting is for soft stoppages and restoring the lines to full flow (read Master plumbers.com 1999 articles by yours truly) go to google or Yahoo or AOL or any search engine and follow me around Chirs like you normally do my BEST FAN and type in

"Tieger plumbing" then read Master plumbers articles
(to bad Chris didnt make the writers list possibly next time)

Snakes, drums, sectionals and Jetters are all tools and like a wrench there is no one tool that fits all.

Besides its borning just jetting hearing the engine and smelling the gas fumes when a drum can get really close up to a trap in doors in a basement.

Chris, I want to be just like you HIGH priced when I grow up YOU DA MAN and thanks for remembing the quality of 400A and the ease of repairing them and ease of installations and GREAT profit margin.

Now go out and test drive the Legcay BUT wait until the new model 2010 comes out, supposed to have 400 HP Turbo and still all wheel drive and still a cheap car to knock around with plus with a little tinkering you can up the HP

[ToUtahNow]

Well I could go into along story explaining that perticular job, but why bother. your just a consultant wanna bee. Could not make a good living in construction or no good at it, and now your just bitter that a few other shops are making money . by the way, Go get a real job. :D

freddy,

I don’t want to make this personal but besides your trolling comments you have started seven threads on this site since you signed up. By reading the threads you have started and the questions you’ve asked I believe questioning your qualifications is reasonable.

As for my experience I am more than willing to compare my qualifications to yours any time you would like. Don’t confuse my working as an Expert Witness for the last twenty years as a failure as a contractor. I guarantee you my hourly rates far exceed anything you will ever hope to see.

Mark

[Woussko]

Plumberscrack

If you see this and remember please tell what you can about Warner the flying plumber and his insane TV adds where he played his own version of SuperMan. The law finally got his business and shut it down. $2500 for a used, yes they were used 40 gallon repainted electric water heater was just nuts but some people fell for it. His had some crazy brand name sticker on them. They were totally crap but sold as the 100 year life water heater. I'm sure Plumberscrack remembers some about this gamer. I never had or knew anyone that had them do anything. The fact that a pumber could run TV adds during primetime and over and over again, told us to stay far away. Those adds cost big $$$.

The reason I want Plumberscrack to tell the story is that I'm pretty sure at one time he or another good plumber he knows has had to go and undo the huge messes his (Warner) company made.

PC Do you remember the TV adds for "Johny B Quick" another big ripoff plumbing and HVAC contractor?

[drtyhands]

Well I could go into along story explaining that perticular job, but why bother. your just a consultant wanna bee. Could not make a good living in construction or no good at it, and now your just bitter that a few other shops are making money . by the way, Go get a real job. :D
You are being rude to an extremely intelegent and articulate individual who has done a great deal for others.

I will not waste energy on you.

Childsplay freddy,just suck it up and better yourself;)

[ToUtahNow]

Adam,

Thank you for the kind words but I just consider the source. A review of freddy's other post makes me believe he is missing something.

Mark

[drtyhands]

Adam,

Thank you for the kind words but I just consider the source. A review of freddy's other post makes me believe he is missing something.

Mark
OHHHH-HO-HO

I would love to say so many things to the MISSING thing I can hardly keepa hold on my thoughts:p

Nah,I'll keep the board clean.

Good luck freddy.

[Tieger plumbing]

Well I could go into along story explaining that perticular job, but why bother. your just a consultant wanna bee. Could not make a good living in construction or no good at it, and now your just bitter that a few other shops are making money . by the way, Go get a real job. :D


Hi Fred, I honestly cannot understand why someone who has a trade and really marketable skill is willing to work for less money then someone working at a fast food store.
Plumbing, heating, drain cleaning are professions many of which do require an apprenticeship and we should be compensated for our expertise.

This self hate is not going to cost me anything in this stage of my life as I made it already and now look at this as a hobby and have a blast doing it.

Even now some guy is advertising in my area "sewer and drains cleaned for $49.99"

Yet today I started at 9 AM finished by 1 PM and charged $1,600 for water jetting and snaking and was told to come back and do the other side of the building tomorrow.

The real problem as I see it many,many plumbers and drain guys are really talented in doing the work but have no idea how to price a job for their skills.

Today I did two 4" floor drains and two service sinks (slop sink) stoppages using a 3/4" snake to open the floor drain lines and the Rigid Jetter to scour them 1350 indoors and 2200 out doors and a 3/8 hand held snake to remove rags etc from the slop sink line.

Why people knock someone not afraid to charge is beyond reasoning as the public decides who they want to work for them.

Not everyone wants to drive a yugo I learned let my accounts say your charge to much and call someone else if they felt the price is not worth the quality I try to give.

This new account I took away from a franchise drain cleaning company what's fair is fair they went into plumbing so plumbers should go into drain cleaning.

My selling point to take the roto guy out was meeting the building owner and explaining "no one but no one knows more about sewers and drains then the masters who install them and my vast training is in valuable to keeping your systems working properly.

I showed him my Masters licenses he asked the roto guy how much training he had and he looked down and said a few weeks

Now he could have stayed with the franchise but decided to take the small shop owner @$400 per hr as he found over kill was a lot cheaper in the long run

What I do consider a crook is an over priced stumblebum who has no clue to how to do the jobs properly even if it is only using an auger to clear a toilet stoppage.

Another thief is the guy who robs a better life from his own family thinking he is not worth the money he is charging and thus he is selling himself short and taking a better life away from his wife and children.

I really would love to be the highest priced plumber / drain cleaner in NYC and work one hr a week for $10,000 instead of schlepping a Jetter and a 3/4" drum snake for chump change of $400 per hr.

Soon I may give myself another raise....

[Tieger plumbing]

Chris,

It sounds like the jetter Sylvan is using is the JetMax 3010 which is just a mediocre jetter which costs less than nine grand brand new before they went out of business. Comparing his jetter to a US Jet 4018 is hardly a fair comparison. That's like comparing his Auto-Spin to one of Rick's K-60s.

Regardless of the above we are pretty good here with using our BS meters for those who spend too much time praising themselve's. I would like to welcome you to the forum but ask that you try to leave your distain for Slyvan at the door and we will judge him for ourselves.

Mark


Thank you Mark ..Sylvan

At least the list is jumping keeps the heart pumping and Forgive Chis is my lot in life to train

[ChrisConnor]

The wart hog head doesn't use flails, blades or saws that could get tangled in roots. It uses nothing but good old high pressure water to destroy roots.

No need for reverse.

As to your masterplumbers.com article, Your little pressure washers might be "for soft blockages", but a real waterjet WILL cut roots. Your soft blockages only idea is grossly inaccurate. Do you still throw away your speed rooter cables when you get a kink? YOu gotta get with the times man. I could splice a 3/4" cable in the field when I was 16.

As for "Vactors" I bought a VacCon combination 4500± CFM three stage fan
2000 psi @ 80 gpm for working in that crap hole called new orleans.

Dec 13, 2006 made one year since I left and I still haven't gotten paid. God bless FEMA. YOur girl Hillary wants to build the poor people of NOLA a 3.3 million dollar monument, but the fed won't pay their bill.

As to the 10 gpm machine cleaning a 36" inch line, what are you smoking?

Much too little flow from your machine to CLEAN such a large pipe(in a reasonable amount of time), unless it was a high flow drain line and the standing water behind the blockage scoured the pipe clean after you made a hole in it.

As to being your BEST FAN(?), I've read more accurate articles with better grammar, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I was just letting everyone know what to expect when "the kid" started his bellowing.

Just for the record your aren't the only LMP in the world GUY.


You think Thompson is the guy? C'mon Syl, I know that new thoughts hurt your already lead fumed brain, but we need a President that will stand for America, not foreign interests. Also Ron Paul would abolish the IRS and stop "borrowing" money from the world bank that we can print ourselves.

I know that Fred has the blessings of Zion, but let's watch our own interest, OK PAL.

[drtyhands]

Tieger,

This is a good thing that you have found a way to separate the fool(corperations) from his(their) money.Your salesman skills are off the charts.Mine are the worst and need a great deal of improvement.:D

There is plenty of profit in what I charge hourly.I agree with some others I could go as high as $100.00 an hour and be under the average hourly rate charged in my community.But I'm not confident in that move yet.

Tieger what do you want here,Why are you here.You are more than welcome to bring your years of plumbing knowledge and give us a hand helping others.But something is starting to go sour here.It sometimes gets this way when we talk about money.

Welcome to the forum,I hope you and I enjoy your stay here;)

Adam

[gear junkie]

Tieger, I think I figured it out (yes, you are that transparent) you're a genius in your own mind. I applaud your efforts for ripping off your customers and thinking of ways to justify your "talents". Your talent with the text is only rivaled by the sheer stupidity of freddy. You seem to think the money in your pocket and not the character within makes you a man. Sadly mistaken. Chris was right, you do like to antagonize. You've managed to respond to every reply to you to get more attention. Don't waste your time on this one. You are a waste of time and this is the last 5 minutes I will devote to an individual such as yourself. I suggest others do the same.

Ben

[Drain Medic]

Hi Fred, I honestly cannot understand why someone who has a trade and really marketable skill is willing to work for less money then someone working at a fast food store.
Plumbing, heating, drain cleaning are professions many of which do require an apprenticeship and we should be compensated for our expertise.

This self hate is not going to cost me anything in this stage of my life as I made it already and now look at this as a hobby and have a blast doing it.

Even now some guy is advertising in my area "sewer and drains cleaned for $49.99"

Yet today I started at 9 AM finished by 1 PM and charged $1,600 for water jetting and snaking and was told to come back and do the other side of the building tomorrow.

The real problem as I see it many,many plumbers and drain guys are really talented in doing the work but have no idea how to price a job for their skills.

Today I did two 4" floor drains and two service sinks (slop sink) stoppages using a 3/4" snake to open the floor drain lines and the Rigid Jetter to scour them 1350 indoors and 2200 out doors and a 3/8 hand held snake to remove rags etc from the slop sink line.

Why people knock someone not afraid to charge is beyond reasoning as the public decides who they want to work for them.

Not everyone wants to drive a yugo I learned let my accounts say your charge to much and call someone else if they felt the price is not worth the quality I try to give.

This new account I took away from a franchise drain cleaning company what's fair is fair they went into plumbing so plumbers should go into drain cleaning.

My selling point to take the roto guy out was meeting the building owner and explaining "no one but no one knows more about sewers and drains then the masters who install them and my vast training is in valuable to keeping your systems working properly.

I showed him my Masters licenses he asked the roto guy how much training he had and he looked down and said a few weeks

Now he could have stayed with the franchise but decided to take the small shop owner @$400 per hr as he found over kill was a lot cheaper in the long run

What I do consider a crook is an over priced stumblebum who has no clue to how to do the jobs properly even if it is only using an auger to clear a toilet stoppage.

Another thief is the guy who robs a better life from his own family thinking he is not worth the money he is charging and thus he is selling himself short and taking a better life away from his wife and children.

I really would love to be the highest priced plumber / drain cleaner in NYC and work one hr a week for $10,000 instead of schlepping a Jetter and a 3/4" drum snake for chump change of $400 per hr.

Soon I may give myself another raise....

You know what...this "self hate" is being brought onto you by YOU.. You make yourself out to be Donald Trump of plumbing and drain cleaning..WHO CARES!!! If you want to charge $1000 an hr for a camera, go for it..I hope you can look yourself in the mirror and feel good about yourself.. I know that if you came into my neck of the woods and charged those prices...i would be totally happy..for 1, you would get laughed out of here, for 2, i would be doubling my business....Thats great that you can charge $1600 for 4hrs worth of work...better be a hefty warranty with it though...but did you video the lines to make sure they are clean???? did you offer a preventive maint. program???? What are your warranty lenghts im curious???? I for one dont care what you charge, or who you have dinner with...or how much you think we should charge...everyone is different...But ill tell you what, i wont take you serious with all this nonsense, the way you talk about yourself, you should be king of drain cleaning..if you have so much knowledge..please share it with us..tell us how you got some of these drains open...as you can see im pretty new here, but alot of these guys are great...some very knowlegable, i take advice, i give advice...i dont brag to them about the people i talk to or have dinner with, or that im driving a 120,000 vehicle..good for you....Thats all im going to say about this...if you want to share some knowledge...other then prices..im all ears...until then im done with this thread

Greg

[drtyhands]

Tieger, I think I figured it out (yes, you are that transparent) you're a genius in your own mind. I applaud your efforts for ripping off your customers and thinking of ways to justify your "talents". Your talent with the text is only rivaled by the sheer stupidity of freddy. You seem to think the money in your pocket and not the character within makes you a man. Sadly mistaken. Chris was right, you do like to antagonize. You've managed to respond to every reply to you to get more attention. Don't waste your time on this one. You are a waste of time and this is the last 5 minutes I will devote to an individual such as yourself. I suggest others do the same.

Ben

DANG GEAR,

The old days of street fighting still shows some teeth:p

:):)

[mrs. westcoast]

Tieger, I think I figured it out (yes, you are that transparent) you're a genius in your own mind. I applaud your efforts for ripping off your customers and thinking of ways to justify your "talents". Your talent with the text is only rivaled by the sheer stupidity of freddy. You seem to think the money in your pocket and not the character within makes you a man. Sadly mistaken. Chris was right, you do like to antagonize. You've managed to respond to every reply to you to get more attention. Don't waste your time on this one. You are a waste of time and this is the last 5 minutes I will devote to an individual such as yourself. I suggest others do the same.

Ben



Ben,

You sure we are not related?:)

[plumberscrack]

WOW more punches being thrown here than the 1st round of 'Marvelous' Marvin Hagler and Tommy 'The Hit Man" Hearns 1985 fight in Vegas.:D

[ToUtahNow]

WOW more punches being thrown here than the 1st round of 'Marvelous' Marvin Hagler and Tommy 'The Hit Man" Hearns 1985 fight in Vegas.:D

OH YEAH, well pull your pants up and your upper lip down. You are an emBAREassment to our trade. :mad:

just kidding - Mark :D

[drtyhands]

Oh Sh3t!!

I just checked the active user list.Big daddy's in the house,Everyone quiet.

:p

[ToUtahNow]

I have actually not been on the site today but I do admit to having a very clever cat. I guess I will have to start locking my CPU to prevent him from posting.

Mark

[PLUMBER RICK]

The US Jet is a great machine no doubt about it BUT the largest sewer I have cleaned thus far was only 36" so the Jet max did a great job.

If your a drain professional why not go with O' Brian 7040 SC or a Vactor

Remember I am a Master plumber/ LMFSPC/ heating thus drain cleaning is more of a hobby as it gets me away from welding /soldering / brazing /pouring lead joints etc. and makes each day different.

I like drain cleaning but I would hate to do it for a living day after day.


Re Wart hog HOW do you put water in reverse once the cutter nozzle gets hung up?

Snakes are IDEAL and meant for hard stoppages and water jetting is for soft stoppages and restoring the lines to full flow (read Master plumbers.com 1999 articles by yours truly) go to google or Yahoo or AOL or any search engine and follow me around Chirs like you normally do my BEST FAN and type in

"Tieger plumbing" then read Master plumbers articles
(to bad Chris didnt make the writers list possibly next time)

Snakes, drums, sectionals and Jetters are all tools and like a wrench there is no one tool that fits all.

Besides its borning just jetting hearing the engine and smelling the gas fumes when a drum can get really close up to a trap in doors in a basement.


tieger if you knew anything about jetting or warthog nozzles, you might be an interesting person to have a debate with. but since your clueless in jetting and warthog nozzles, it's really a waste of time even explaining it to you. as far as cleaning a 36'' line with your jetmax, the only thing you cleaned was the customers wallet.

i would suggest you stop talking like an expert about drain cleaning and jetting as you are just burying yourself in all your self proclaimed knowledge.

i'm just getting tired of reading your b.s. post on this forum with your b.s. flunkies surrounding you.

please do everyone a big favor and go back to the forum you came from and leave the ridgid forum alone. all you've managed to do is screw things up like what i've seen posted about you and your ways of conducting business.

if you really want to have a debate about drain cleaning and jetting you've found the right person to put you back in your hole you crawled out from. time to rewrite your so called expert articles.

it takes a lot to get some of these guys pissed, but you managed to do it in a record time.

have fun in new york and i'll keep my eyes out for you the next time i see a news story on unscrupulous contractors.

rick.

[ToUtahNow]

Actually I will be spending some time in Manhattan in November of this year. I may have to check out the plumbing industry in New York while I am there.

Mark

[drtyhands]

Actually I will be spending some time in Manhattan in November of this year. I may have to check out the plumbing industry in New York while I am there.

Mark
Can't think of a better candidate for special ops:cool:

[ChrisConnor]

Well, I did warn you.

That is Sylvan Tieger at his finest. I don't know how many years it has been, but Sylvan hasn't changed a bit.

Perhaps I am a little guilty myself, I did goad him just a wee little bit.

But hey, was I right or what?

[ToUtahNow]

Chris,

It would be nice if you could stick around and contribute. We have a pretty well rounded group here and while we may not always agree we respect each others opinions.

Mark

[drtyhands]

Nope, he cannot stay.

He has to leave.

He has to leave,Now.

This is only for us,the arrogant,rude,obnoxious and unhelpfull plumbers.
....................................:p:p:p........ ..........................


Chris,What do you like about plumbing,I am still trying to gain more confidence in the tankless W/H thing.Do you trust them?

Adam

[PLUMBER RICK]

Welcome Tieger Plumbing, Finally someone who brings this trade up to what the real cost are. You are not going to find many supporters on this forum. These folks claim to have pride in there trade, but shrink down to little babies
when it come to holding a Quality price, for their learned trade. I guess they really feel that they are only as qualified as a handyman and therefore charge like one.
I for one charge 215.00 for outside drain cleaning on 4" drain. And Yes I sleep very good at night with my prices. I hate to think at the wages these guy would pay for a extra plumber. If they every could find one for their slave wages. Most likely a rent a drunk. Freddy

freddy,

I find it interesting that 16 months ago you were asking why the galvanized nipple you screwed into a copper adapter was corroding and today you are a plumber who charges $215 for outside drain cleaning on 4" drain.

I expect even Aaron at 16-years old found it kind of funny you would ask such a silly question and still profess to be a plumber. Mixing of dissimilar metals is one of the first things most learn as a helper.

Mark

Freddy,

You are a talker,a salesman,the nu breed of Bu!!shi$$ers that do not understand how plumbing is designed or works,but let the customers believe that you know what you are talking about.

Sorry I missed the electrolisis issue.What's up with that PLUMMER freddy

What's up with the lack of respect,PAL.

I don't see anyone taking cold shots at anyone else as you have.

You guys do a lot of hot talk with no back:mad:

If you would like I can start giving you the attention you are hollering for.

It is ugly and counterproductive here for me to throw the switch on your lame,But your not going to post something like that and not get popped.You threw a sucker punch.Not cool

freddy,

I don’t want to make this personal but besides your trolling comments you have started seven threads on this site since you signed up. By reading the threads you have started and the questions you’ve asked I believe questioning your qualifications is reasonable.

As for my experience I am more than willing to compare my qualifications to yours any time you would like. Don’t confuse my working as an Expert Witness for the last twenty years as a failure as a contractor. I guarantee you my hourly rates far exceed anything you will ever hope to see.

Mark

guy's freddy is not even proud enough to list his occupation,location, years of experience, or anything except that he too is a money hungry hoard.

interesting that when he first came on he was p.m. to get info on jetters. i guess in a year he has gone from looking for advise to giving us crap.

i think him and sylvan have a few things in common. except freddy doesn't have the money to afford listing his occupation, age, location, or anything else about himself. in reality freddy doesn't exist except on this forum. maybe sylvan can take him under his big wings since the rest of us are getting tired of his b.s. too. they can drive off together. maybe he'll get picked up in sylvans fancy 120k. car.

you two should really talk, you both really need each others support at this time. looks like the regulars are finally tired of you:p

rick.

[ChrisConnor]

What do I like about plumbing?

What's not to like? Poop, crawling under houses, crawling under houses in poop. it's heaven.

Do i trust tankless?
absolutely.

[biscuit]

WOW more punches being thrown here than the 1st round of 'Marvelous' Marvin Hagler and Tommy 'The Hit Man" Hearns 1985 fight in Vegas.:D

No kidding, dont know how I missed all of this!:eek:

[Josh]

ok guys.. time to move on. This one has run its course.