New dewalt drill and impact driver

[l_bilyk]

Long time lurker, first time poster... just got a flyer and wanted to share

http://i1.tinypic.com/4y66ght.jpg

[Velosapien]

Cool! The new impact looks sweet! I think my Makita LXT impact driver will be finding its way to ebay very soon.

[l_bilyk]

I think I will give my old dewalt impact driver away and pick up this one as well. I have always liked the makita LXT impact driver much more than my dewalt because it was so compact... plus this new one will come with the new battery packs! sweet

The drill doesn't look much different though. Looks like you can switch from driving to drilling or hammering without upsetting the clutch settings on this one, but i never use the clutch settings anyways so it does not matter to me.

[Velosapien]

I replaced the Dewalt 18v kit with a Makita LXT group but that didn't last too long. The Makita tools are pretty wimpy and I ended up going back to most of the Dewalt tools. The impact driver is the only tool I still use regularly because it was much better and smaller than the Dewalt. The drawback is I now have to keep yet another charger and set of batteries. If I can get a Dewalt impact driver than can match the Makita I can go back to only needing one set of 18v batteries and charger which would be fantastic.
The drill looks like its the 18v DC925 merged with the 36v drill clutch system that allows for switching to drilling and driving without having to jump through all the clutch settings. The new batteries look much smaller too, about the same as the 14.4v nicads. I really hope these batteries charge fast though. It was quite nice that the Makita batteries charge in 22 minutes with the new charger.

[ohiohead]

Wow, the new DeWalts look nice! Where did this "flyer" come from? Any spec's? Does this flyer show pictures of the new "compact" cordless and "improved" impact wrenches that are currently on the "press release" part of the dewalt.com?

http://www.dewalt.com/us/service/company/pressreleases.asp

I spoke with a DeWalt rep 2 or so weeks ago, and the end of 2007 & beginning of 2008 is supposed to be very exciting for fans of DeWalt cordless tools!

[Sceeter W Wheels]

Wow, great find and post!

This is a good move on DeWalt's part because most of their 18V line is very good already, they just needed to fine-tune a few things like the impact driver. It looks like they took a few tips from Makita & Hitachi and decided to get with the times in terms of size.

The drill actually looks more like the current 12V/14.4V NiCad due to the smaller battery size. Should also reduce the weight a fair bit if the drill itself stays around the same weight. It's hard to believe the DC925 has been out for over a year now!

I too got the Makita impact/compact drill set a while ago, the set with the 1.5AH batteries. Very nice tools and the impact with the small battery is freakin' amazingly light and small. Best I've used so far. The drill has turned out to be surprisingly useful as well. Because of the small size and fine torque settings, it's almost as versatile as a cordless screwdriver. But other that that, I have no interest in the LXT line of tools.

It will be interesting to see how fast the DeWalt Li Ions charge too.

[Velosapien]

Lol! I hope they make no changes to the 36v line. I'm going to be furious if they come out with all new and imprived versions now that I just started investing in them!

[donutboy]

I doubt that you see anything like 22 minutes on the Dewalt charging. THe kool-aid that DW is using for the batteries is different than Makita, Bosch, and Miligidobi. Seems that someone from DW told us that 1hr was the best could do to get the cycle lifes up to 2000+. Anything under 1hr and the cycles went south.

correct me if I am wrong but the Makita doesn't offer a 2000 cycle warranty right?

Nice score on that flyer.

[Velosapien]

Actually that I know of, Dewalt is the only one making any sort of claim on cycle life. Thats actually a bit interesting, and its not just the powertool market, but in general everyone who uses lithium-ion batteries is very hush hush about the actual cycle life of their products and for good reason. Lithium Ion has quite a lower cycle life than nicad and nimh. About 400 to 500cycles vs about 800 for nicad. It does make sense that they will need a slower charge rate to extend the cycle life and possibly achieve a better balanced charge accross all the cells. Originally when DeWalt anounced they were working on lithium ion with A123 Systems they were claiming up to 90% charge in the first 5 minutes and full charge within the hour. Clearly they ended up dropping that, probably in exchange for higher cycle life and less percieved product failure and warranty calls.

[l_bilyk]

Wasnt milwaukee advertising something crazy like 5000 cycles? I know the V28 packs carry a long warranty

[Sceeter W Wheels]

Arrrrrg, that would suck! LOL I guess that's the nature of the business. It's just like computer technology. Next year they have something better and faster for half the price you paid.

It's hard to say though. So far the 36V tools have been a lot slower coming than the 18's. Which is to be expected because 18V probably outsells 28V and higher by quite a bit.

Lol! I hope they make no changes to the 36v line. I'm going to be furious if they come out with all new and imprived versions now that I just started investing in them!

[Sceeter W Wheels]

If you go to the DeWalt site and then to the "Battery Technology" section they recently put up, they list some cycle life comparisons. They don't name names, but the colors are pretty obvious LOL So assuming they are talking about Milwaukee, the number of cycles that they claim that lithium manganese gets is pretty low (I think the guy says 400 cycles). A lot lower than Milwaukee was advertising before.

Now..... this is according to DeWalt LOL I'm sure that if Milwaukee had a battery technology thing like this, they would claim that DeWalt only has 400 cycles and their batteries can do 10,000 or something.

I doubt that you see anything like 22 minutes on the Dewalt charging. THe kool-aid that DW is using for the batteries is different than Makita, Bosch, and Miligidobi. Seems that someone from DW told us that 1hr was the best could do to get the cycle lifes up to 2000+. Anything under 1hr and the cycles went south.

correct me if I am wrong but the Makita doesn't offer a 2000 cycle warranty right?

Nice score on that flyer.

[Velosapien]

Thay all claim a higher cycle life but none will ever really give any hard numbers. 5000 sounds too ridiculous to even be remotely believable. The thing is there aren't that many lithium manufacturers out there. I bet that if you pop open Makita, Milwaukee, Bosch, or most other battery packs up you'll find most of them use the same brand cells which makes all those claims bunk. Sony makes lithium ion cells for just about anyone who uses them so I wouldn't doubt they or some licensed version of, power most other brands. Anybody wanna rip open their battery pack? :D

Edit: Seems that's exactly the case. Makita is using Sony cells. Sony was apparently the first to get to the market cells suitable for powertool use so its very likely anyone who started making li-ion tools around the same time as Makita is almost certainyl using the same Sony batteries. I'm trying to find out who Milwaukee is using since they supposedly did their own research.

[Woussko]

Here's some info on the totally BS 2000 charges or 5 years from Milwaukee V28 batteries. NO way will they really do that.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/news.nsf/vwPressReleases/AC8C1DAB0ED84B798625714E006266AE?OpenDocument

[Velosapien]

If you go to the DeWalt site and then to the "Battery Technology" section they recently put up, they list some cycle life comparisons. They don't name names, but the colors are pretty obvious LOL So assuming they are talking about Milwaukee, the number of cycles that they claim that lithium manganese gets is pretty low (I think the guy says 400 cycles). A lot lower than Milwaukee was advertising before.

Now..... this is according to DeWalt LOL I'm sure that if Milwaukee had a battery technology thing like this, they would claim that DeWalt only has 400 cycles and their batteries can do 10,000 or something.

Something that needs to be considered is the cycle life is a universal problem. It applies to lithium ion used for phones, laptops, music players, you name it. Power tool manufacturers didn't stumble upon the magic formula to make them last longer. They spin numbers differently. If someone came up with a battery that had such a ridiculously high cycle life, you can bet the likes of Dell, Apple, and and countless others would be all over that if it means they could save millions upon millions of device service calls and warranty due to exhausted cells.

[Velosapien]

Here's some info on the totally BS 2000 charges or 5 years from Milwaukee V28 batteries. NO way will they really do that.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/news.nsf/vwPressReleases/AC8C1DAB0ED84B798625714E006266AE?OpenDocument

I'd really love to see the answer someone gets trying to warranty a 5 year old dead battery considering most batteries don't last that long anyway. Li-ion deteriorates at about 20% per year as it is which means in 5 years they will be largely unusable regardless or their cycle count.

[Paladin2025]

Here's some info on the totally BS 2000 charges or 5 years from Milwaukee V28 batteries. NO way will they really do that.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/news.nsf/vwPressReleases/AC8C1DAB0ED84B798625714E006266AE?OpenDocument

Thay all claim a higher cycle life but none will ever really give any hard numbers. 5000 sounds too ridiculous to even be remotely believable. The thing is there aren't that many lithium manufacturers out there. I bet that if you pop open Makita, Milwaukee, Bosch, or most other battery packs up you'll find most of them use exactly the same cells lwhich makes all those claims bunk. Sony makes lithium ion cells for just about anyone who uses them so I wouldn't doubt they or some licensed version of, power most other brands. Anybody wanna rip open their battery pack? :D

I don't get it guys. What's not to believe? Regardless, they're the ones backing up their warranty (and whatever claims that are made on it). According to Toolmonger http://toolmonger.com/2006/06/28/preview-milwaukees-new-v18-cordless-line/
they claim that Milwaukee has electronics in the battery that counts the number of times the battery is charged. It'll be interesting if someone out there in the real world does hit the magic 5000 cycles.

If you want to read up on the technology that Milwaukee is using, hit the manufacturer's website.
http://www.molienergy.com/Press%20Releases/release040117.htm

I don't own any of the Milwaukee lithium, but I really like their tools. I don't think it's as good as the pre-TTI stuff, but it's still pretty good compared to what's on the market.

[Woussko]

Velosapien

Didn't you see where people blasted off about that Milwaukee being now part of TTI refuses to honor warranty claims? The people blasting off on this forum stated that their way is about like this. "If it worked when it was new and then quit after a week, YOU broke the tool so *** you." Several people were howling about it. Now I remember all too well before the evil greedy **** of TTI came along when Milwaukee did the right thing and took care of their customers. Back then they would not make claims of 2000 cycles per battery.

With the above put to rest, I'll gladly still buy old stock corded Milwaukee tools that are mostly USA inside and out. They are good tools. There still is some NOS that were pre TTI tools just waiting to be put into use.

[Velosapien]

Yeah I remember that actually. It would be great if they stand by their word but the skeptic in me has a hard time believing they won't come up with any excuse to not honor such an ambitous warranty. 5 years on a battery is pretty much a lifetime warranty since like I said, everbody knows that while not impossible, it is still rare for a battery to still function past 5 years, and if they do they will be seriously degraded condition.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

I think if you read the fine print on the Milwaukee warranty, after 2 years they do some sort of prorating scheme where you pay a portion of the replacement or repair cost. I might be a little off on that, but I do remember that it's not exactly the 5 years they print on the box.

[l_bilyk]

yeah it's like a car battery... 2 years free replacement, 5 years pro-rated

[Velosapien]

http://www.dewalt.com/nano/index.html

The new groups are officially out. Nothing new in the 36v department. The 28v is pretty much a 28v carbon copy of the 36v stuff. The 18v new tools aren't shown yet other than the battery. Interestingly enough they have a chart comparing the cycle life with their yellow bar at 2000, a blue one at 600 and a red one at 400. I wonder who the blue and red bars represent? :D

edit: Looks like the new 18v is showing properly now.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

So, Velosapien, are you feeling the power of Nano? LOL

Yeah it's an interesting new section. Looking through the 18V drill specs, notice that they backed the power off on the DC927 to 425UWO from 510UWO (DC925)?

Still not sure what the point of 28V is, but I guess it could be a good idea. At least now they are competing with everybody 18V (Makita) 28V (Milwaukee) and 36V (Bosch, Hilti).

[l_bilyk]

I think the 28V will be the new bread and butter like like the 18V was

[Velosapien]

Interestingly enough it seems like the DC927 is going to be a step back. 5.5lbs, 425UWO and max speed reduced to 1800rpm which means probably decreased hammerdrilling performance. The DC925 is claimed at 6.1lbs with the Nicd. With the Li-ion battery which is a pound lighter it should be about 5.1 lbs with 510UWO and 2000rpm max. These are just numbers on paper though so real world performance could be identical to the DC925. The impact driver looks is exactly the same length as the Makita although still a bit heavy at 3.7 lbs. I can't tell if the new nano battery is the same size but if it is they will also be a fair bit larger than Makita's. There really doesn't seem to be much of a purpose for the 28v group. Particularly when the price gap between 18 to 36v is shrinking. They are clearly trying to cover every corner of the competition as it's obvious these new groups are aimed squarely at competing with Makita and Milwaukee, with the 36v thrown in for good measure. I do agree the 28v has the potential to become the new bread and butter. A little lighter and more managable than the 36v with performance which should be quite close.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

It could be more widely accepted. But with the power that those 36V batteries can put out, there are some huge opportunities for corded replacements where 28V will still be limited. You can probably tell that I want to see more 36V tools :D

For the 18V decline in power and RPM, I'm thinking it's a marketing thing. They don't want it to compete too much with the 28V, where the DC925 is closer in power, and as you pointed out, geared higher at the top end which can give it a bit of a speed advantage in some tasks. So I wonder if they will keep the 925 in their lineup.....good question.

If the battery is shorter in length (which it looks, but I could be wrong), then it might not fit the existing 18V tools too well. The tower part might snap in, but the base of the battery mount will extend over the ends of the battery wouldn't it? There's another thing TBD.

Interestingly enough it seems like the DC927 is going to be a step back. 5.5lbs, 425UWO and max speed reduced to 1800rpm which means probably decreased hammerdrilling performance. The DC925 is claimed at 6.1lbs with the Nicd. With the Li-ion battery which is a pound lighter it should be about 5.1 lbs with 510UWO and 2000rpm max. These are just numbers on paper though so real world performance could be identical to the DC925. The impact driver looks is exactly the same length as the Makita although still a bit heavy at 3.7 lbs. I can't tell if the new nano battery is the same size but if it is they will also be a fair bit larger than Makita's. There really doesn't seem to be much of a purpose for the 28v group. Particularly when the price gap between 18 to 36v is shrinking. They are clearly trying to cover every corner of the competition as it's obvious these new groups are aimed squarely at competing with Makita and Milwaukee, with the 36v thrown in for good measure. I do agree the 28v has the potential to become the new bread and butter. A little lighter and more managable than the 36v with performance which should be quite close.

[Woussko]

With Black & Decker owning Dewalt and Porter-Cable along with other companies, I wonder why they don't try leaving well enough alone at Dewalt and if they just have to do it, make a new line of Porter-Cable 28 Volt cordless tools. I have a bad feeling that in 5 years there may not be must left of P-C other than a few of their top selling woodworking power tools. The rest will be changed over to Yellow and Black under the Dewalt name.

[Velosapien]

I don't think Porter Cable will ever be getting a new cordless group. I wouldn't be surprised if they drop their cordless line soon. The way things are shaping out it looks like PC will be left as a dedicated woodworking brand. Its kind of anyones guess where they are going to go. Right now PC and Dewalt are taking the better version of each ones tools and standardizing it among both brands with some minor features added or taken to differentiate them.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

Porter Cable have some nice niche tools. Compressors, nail guns, woodworking stuff. True their cordless stuff doesn't seem to be their main thing. But a while ago they used to have this 19.2V router, which was pretty cool. Don't know if they still make that or not. But it was an interesting idea.

Also, on the DeWalt Nano stuff, I noticed that they got rid of the keyless blade change on the 28V circular saw. I have to say that's a good thing. Like most of these reviews say, it's more of a pain in the a** than a real help. The little lever that slides out is spring loaded and always wants to pull back in, so you're always fighting that, and it's not long enough to get enough leverage to tighten the nut without being uncomfortable on your fingers.

Actually it must be possible to replace the keyless nut on the 36V with the regular hex key type nut. I'm going to look into that.

[workerbob]

Sorry, I don't believe DW's website or DW for anything they say about other companies. They should just give their products advantages and not throw mud..and mud that is totally off. It is common knowledge that the Makita Lithium gets 1800 charges and that it can charge in 45 minutes. Dewalt is known for skewing numbers. Dewalt is behind in the game since Milwaukee, Makita, Ridgid, and Ryobi all have Lithium. Dewalt has to sling mud to make up for lost ground. Believe what you want but I won't believe the kings of marketing Black and Decker.

[Velosapien]

Edited: read post below

[Velosapien]

Dewalt is behind in the game since Milwaukee, Makita, Ridgid, and Ryobi all have Lithium.

How do you figure that? They were among the first to offer lithium ion and they pulled if off with probably the least technical snags. Ridgid had a rocky start with lithium ion which is still undertain if some of the kinks have been worked out, ryobi just got them last week, and milwaukee suffered overheating problems.

[Velosapien]

Sorry, I don't believe DW's website or DW for anything they say about other companies. They should just give their products advantages and not throw mud..and mud that is totally off. It is common knowledge that the Makita Lithium gets 1800 charges and that it can charge in 45 minutes. Dewalt is known for skewing numbers. Dewalt is behind in the game since Milwaukee, Makita, Ridgid, and Ryobi all have Lithium. Dewalt has to sling mud to make up for lost ground. Believe what you want but I won't believe the kings of marketing Black and Decker.


Its all marketing, from everybody. I don't know where you get the 1800 charges from as that number is obvious marketing itself. I highly doubt anyone is actually getting that high a cycle rate of more than 400-600 full cycles for their batteries because it goes against all the technical knowledge out there. That is that lithium ion has a LOWER cycle rate than older technologies. Nobody has really figured out the magic formula to solve that rather fundamental limitation. Any manufacturer can skew the numbers in their favor. The difference is a cycle with NiCD doesn't matter whether its half charged or empty. Once it's popped to charge it's a cycle. Lithium ion, if the battery only drains 50% then when you charge it, it's 1/2 of a cycle. If they estimate that people don't always fully drain their batteries before poping them in the charger then they can massage the numbers to mean anhything, like a cycle can be every time the person puts the battery is topped of on the charger assuming it's done on an average at 2/3 drain.

Unlike Dewalt and Milwaukee who worked directly with battery manufacturers to develop their own respective battery technologies, Makita went with off the shelf Sony batteries. I bet if we look up the specs for Sony batteries they will contradict those numbers. They avoided a large amount of development time and costs by going with more basic batteries. Thats why they were able to come out so early with lithium ion tools in large quantities. For what its worth A123 systems, who makes the nano-phosphate chemistry batteries for Dewalt is considered the most advanced lithium ion technology currently on the market by most reputable companies and engineers who have nothing to do with Dewalt.

Techincally speaking there is a reason Dewalt's claims hold some water. They are the only manufacturer using nano-phosphate chemistry. All others use conventional manganese based chemistry. Manganese cells have higher voltage of 3.9v peak charge voltage and 3.6v nominal. Nano-phosphate has a peak charge voltage of 3.6v and 3.3v nominal. Guess what the number one factor cutting a lithium ion's cycle capacity is? Higher voltage. Cells that run at 3.3v have considerably higher cycle capacity. Sony I believe Sony actually uses a variation based on cobalt manganese chemistry. This type has the highest energy density of high current capable cells. It can peake at 4.10v. This comes at a huge disadvantage since such a high voltage means the cycle life is almost cut in half. Lithium cobalt manganese cells have a known cycle life of as little as 300. While A123 phospahate batteris have the lowest energy density (slightly less than lithium manganese), that means thet are the most stable at heavy discharging. They can remain stable up to 100c where others will only do 80c before catastrphic failure. Phosphate batteries tend to fail mostly harmlessly as opposed to manganese, and even worse, the old cobalt based which pretty much means get the hell away and call the fire department.

[Spinalzo]

Whew!! Thank goodness for battery warranties. Regardless of the technology, manufacturer, R&D process, or claimed number of cycles, unless you're paying out of pocket for a replacement, it's going to come down to whether you can get your battery replaced if there's a problem. I know what's being said is that the technology is being developed to produce a dependable power source with a long life for the end user. But, nothing is going to make me happier in a failed battery situation than the company coming to my rescue with a zero cost replacement. At something over $100 per, replacing lithium ion batteries is pretty low on everyone's list of favorites. So, given that companies may have initial problems, or make some incredible boast as to cycle properties, it still comes down to the battery warranty and the manufacturers' willingness to make it right for the end user. Just an opinion, if no thing lasts forever, at least let it fail within the warranty period.

[workerbob]

Its all marketing, from everybody. I don't know where you get the 1800 charges from as that number is obvious marketing itself. I highly doubt anyone is actually getting that high a cycle rate of more than 400-600 full cycles for their batteries because it goes against all the technical knowledge out there. That is that lithium ion has a LOWER cycle rate than older technologies. Nobody has really figured out the magic formula to solve that rather fundamental limitation. Any manufacturer can skew the numbers in their favor. The difference is a cycle with NiCD doesn't matter whether its half charged or empty. Once it's popped to charge it's a cycle. Lithium ion, if the battery only drains 50% then when you charge it, it's 1/2 of a cycle. If they estimate that people don't always fully drain their batteries before poping them in the charger then they can massage the numbers to mean anhything, like a cycle can be every time the person puts the battery is topped of on the charger assuming it's done on an average at 2/3 drain.

Unlike Dewalt and Milwaukee who worked directly with battery manufacturers to develop their own respective battery technologies, Makita went with off the shelf Sony batteries. I bet if we look up the specs for Sony batteries they will contradict those numbers. They avoided a large amount of development time and costs by going with more basic batteries. Thats why they were able to come out so early with lithium ion tools in large quantities. For what its worth A123 systems, who makes the nano-phosphate chemistry batteries for Dewalt is considered the most advanced lithium ion technology currently on the market by most reputable companies and engineers who have nothing to do with Dewalt.

Techincally speaking there is a reason Dewalt's claims hold some water. They are the only manufacturer using nano-phosphate chemistry. All others use conventional manganese based chemistry. Manganese cells have higher voltage of 3.9v peak charge voltage and 3.6v nominal. Nano-phosphate has a peak charge voltage of 3.6v and 3.3v nominal. Guess what the number one factor cutting a lithium ion's cycle capacity is? Higher voltage. Cells that run at 3.3v have considerably higher cycle capacity. Sony I believe Sony actually uses a variation based on cobalt manganese chemistry. This type has the highest energy density of high current capable cells. It can peake at 4.10v. This comes at a huge disadvantage since such a high voltage means the cycle life is almost cut in half. Lithium cobalt manganese cells have a known cycle life of as little as 300. While A123 phospahate batteris have the lowest energy density (slightly less than lithium manganese), that means thet are the most stable at heavy discharging. They can remain stable up to 100c where others will only do 80c before catastrphic failure. Phosphate batteries tend to fail mostly harmlessly as opposed to manganese, and even worse, the old cobalt based which pretty much means get the hell away and call the fire department.

You can quote technical jargin all you want and you can drink kool aid too. The Dewalt site says their XRP battery gets more cycles than a Makita or Milwaukee lithium Ion. The Makita is supposed to get 1800 and there is no skewing or slinging mud done when they said that 2 years ago. It is a known fact that Nicd gets about 400-800 and lithim gets easily double that number. Dewalt is false advertising by saying they can get more out of XRP NICD than a lithium. Dewalt XRP batteries are known to fail early in their life. Go ask any contractor how many XRP batteries they have bought over the years and it is amazing...now those are real people not websites.

You think Makita picked a battery off the shelf and shoved it in their tool? I think you would be mistaken. Makita also has a chip in their battery and in the charger which can tell you technical information about the battery and it's life.

You speak of battery failure and fires. I have yet to hear of a Makita battery failure that has lead to a fire. The Miluakee had a recall because of issues.

[Velosapien]

Funny, now when presented with some facts its technical jargon? I guess I should just go with marketing. You complain a lot about Dewalt marketing yet seem to have no problems with eating up makita's marketing.

It is a known fact that Nicd gets about 400-800 and lithium gets easily double that number. Dewalt is false advertising by saying they can get more out of XRP NICD than a lithium. Dewalt XRP batteries are known to fail early in their life. Go ask any contractor how many XRP batteries they have bought over the years and it is amazing...now those are real people not websites.

Lithium Ion does not get higher cycle than Nicad. Read what I said about partial discharges which can make a difference but at full cycle's they are generally lower. There is no hard set rule because so many factors are involved. Oh, and makita actually claims 1400 cycles so don't know where you get 1800 from.

You can ask any contractor what they prefer and every single one will tell you whatever they prefer is better. For everyone that hates Dewalt there's one that swears by them. For everyone that loves Makita there's another that hates them.

You think Makita picked a battery off the shelf and shoved it in their tool? I think you would be mistaken. Makita also has a chip in their battery and in the charger which can tell you technical information about the battery and it's life.

Yes, they did. Sony was the first to independantly develop the VT series of lithium ion cells capable of high discharge so they went with their cells to be able to quickly break into the market. Sony VT series cells are interestingly enough rated at 500 cycles.

Every single lithium ion battery pack in the market regardless of it being a power tool battery or laptop battery or anything else has a computer monitoring the cell charge. Without it the batteries would die once drained too low and very literelly explode without something monitoring their charge limit. This is not a Makita exclusive feature, no matter what you read on their website ;)

You speak of battery failure and fires. I have yet to hear of a Makita battery failure that has lead to a fire.

None of the Makita batteries have ever been recalled. But sony recently had a 10 million battery recall for some batches of batteries after multiple explosive failures. Never believe the possibility is not there.

You speak about not chewing up marketing nonsense yet thats really all you're doing. Seriously, your comments boil down to not liking Dewalt, which is fine, but go look up some information on lithium ion instead of quoting off Makita's website. This information is quite widely available.

[Velosapien]

In the end cycle life is actually quite irrelevant because chances are the batteries are going to be dead long before the cycle rate is reached. All Lithium Ion batteries age and loose about 20% of their capacity every year. Even more if not kept in warm or hot conditions extensively. Their natural aging is actually the most common cause of failure. Never buy more lithium ion batteries than you need. They will degrade even if you don't use them. Try to buy batteries that have been manufactured as recently as possible. They start deteriorating as soon as they come off the assembly line. That means avoid those dusty kits sitting in the back of the store shelfs for the last year.

[Velosapien]

sorry, should read: Even more if kept in warm or hot conditions extensively.
Edit function won't work.

[workerbob]

You can't rely on any of the manufacturers sites. I don't like to see one company sling mud at the others. The XRP batteries are inferior to Li-Ion and Dewalt claims they are just as good or better. I find that to be false advertising.

Buy the tool that fits the job. I like the better tool not the one with flashy ads and cool sponserships. Bosch, Ridgid, Makita,Dewalt, etc. all make a quality tool, but don't I try not to let hype and advertising affect my decision.

[l_bilyk]

Lets not even get into how the motors are made with Dewalt.

Do tell.......

[Velosapien]

You can't rely on any of the manufacturers sites. I don't like to see one company sling mud at the others. The XRP batteries are inferior to Li-Ion and Dewalt claims they are just as good or better. I find that to be false advertising.

Buy the tool that fits the job. I like the better tool not the one with flashy ads and cool sponserships. Bosch, Ridgid, Makita,Dewalt, etc. all make a quality tool, but don't I try not to let hype and advertising affect my decision.

I think if you go back and read all of our discussions here you'll understand that most of what we talk about is disecting what basis in reality most of those claims have. Some of it has some basis in fact some of it is wildly twisted. About what you refer to on the Dewalt NiCD cycle life, there is some truth to it, but its not just Dewalt's NiCD. That applies to Makita, Milwaukee, and the technology in general. They just conveniently leave out that everyones NiCD batteries do about the same.

I actually have Makita's 6 tool LXT group and some of the tools are great, some where nothing short of a spectacular dissapointment.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

workerbob,

In terms of "mud slinging", if you want to call it that, DeWalt have done nothing in terms of making claims that hasn't been done by any other manufacturer in the past. For some reason you are singling out DeWalt here as if they are somehow hitting below the belt. I mean it's advertising, what do you want them to say? Of course they are going to say their batteries are better than everyone else's. All lithium ion power tool makers have some sort of claim that attempts to put themselves above the others.

I noticed too that you seem to have removed some of your stuff from your post, especially with regard to DeWalt copying other manufacturers. But with if you want to look at it from that perspective, then you could also say that Makita have obviously had a look at DeWalt's XRP line and started copying every tool that they do from XRP. I mean, an angle grinder, jigsaw, flourescent worklight, concrete vibrator, rotary hammer. DeWalt have had those for quite a while, and now Makita is trying to duplicate them. Instead of trying to think of new ideas for tools they are just trying to make the same thing. I guess Makita came out with that 4-in-1 hybrid impact/drill, but I hear it's a bit of a flop.

Anyway, I don't personally care if they are copying DeWalt or not, I'm just trying to illustrate the point. Especially when talking about ultimately trivial features such as LEDs in the handle and ringtones in the battery charger. Really anyone can do that. That's not really that innovative.

[workerbob]

workerbob,

In terms of "mud slinging", if you want to call it that, DeWalt have done nothing in terms of making claims that hasn't been done by any other manufacturer in the past. For some reason you are singling out DeWalt here as if they are somehow hitting below the belt. I mean it's advertising, what do you want them to say? Of course they are going to say their batteries are better than everyone else's. All lithium ion power tool makers have some sort of claim that attempts to put themselves above the others.

I noticed too that you seem to have removed some of your stuff from your post, especially with regard to DeWalt copying other manufacturers. But with if you want to look at it from that perspective, then you could also say that Makita have obviously had a look at DeWalt's XRP line and started copying every tool that they do from XRP. I mean, an angle grinder, jigsaw, flourescent worklight, concrete vibrator, rotary hammer. DeWalt have had those for quite a while, and now Makita is trying to duplicate them. Instead of trying to think of new ideas for tools they are just trying to make the same thing. I guess Makita came out with that 4-in-1 hybrid impact/drill, but I hear it's a bit of a flop.

Anyway, I don't personally care if they are copying DeWalt or not, I'm just trying to illustrate the point. Especially when talking about ultimately trivial features such as LEDs in the handle and ringtones in the battery charger. Really anyone can do that. That's not really that innovative.


I agree to an extent about the trivial nature of some of those additions but in the tool world as in any company those little innovations you speak of are huge. A Dewalt representative was telling me how they were the only ones allowed to have a charging radio. Bosch did it too and from what I understand they pay Dewalt for that right. Trivial to some but big money to the companies themselves.

I know it is just advertising but people believe what they advertise even if it is not reality.