18v Ridgid cordless drills, battteries & torque

[doubtingtom]

Just purchased new 18v B840011 drill after ridiculous amount of research, etc. HD had just put them out at $99. ! HD's site had shown a different model (84015). I called to ask RIDGID tech support about the difference and was given a torque difference from 510 in lbs (84015) to 460 (B840011). Also, the batteries are different (MaxHC to HC). When I pressed for more detail a comment was made that torque has nothing to do with the batteries. I was believing that batteries would have a notable effect. Am I wrong??

The 14.4v R830153 specs more torque than the 18v B840011 but it has the HC-2.5 AHr batteries vs the standard HC. I assumed that the ability of the motor to draw more current was a factor in the torque spec. Wouldn't my new B840011 have more torque with the HC-2.5 batteries than the standard HC's?

As Ridgid closes out some of these models, I'm guessing that they are mixing and matching various inventory components to clear them out for newer models. Perhaps my new 18v drill is essentially the same as the earlier 84015? Does anyone have some info on this?

Still, a heck-of-a deal for this tool !! :D

Regards,
doubtingtom
St George, UT

[Velosapien]

It is correct that the battery has nothing to do with the drills torque rating. The difference is the Max HC batteries will have a longer runtime since they have a higher amp hour rating. The motor will only draw the same amount of current as it needs @ 18v from any of the batteries. The bigger Max batteries will be able to sustain the drain for longer periods.

The torque ratings are pretty worthless ratings. Torque is directly related to the spindle speed. You can get insane amounts of torque from the lousiest drill if you gear it low enough. Notice the 84015 does a higher 510 in-lbs but it spins at a slower 400rpm. The 84011 is rated at 460 in-lbs but it runs at a faster 450rpm. Once you factor the speed differences they should be almost identical in torque delivered. Anyway, these torque ratings don't tell how well the drill will perform. The way torque is measured is the put the drill on the slowest speed and put resistance on the drill until it stalls. Electric motors deliver the most torque in a burst of a fraction of a second just as they stall, then promptly start burning out. The actual sustainable torque is probably about half of what they are rated at. That much sustained torque would in fact make the drill impossible to handle as it would easily break your wrist. Thats when you move to impact drivers. A compact drill like the 84011 while having almost the same maximum torque rating as some of the bigger drills will very likely struggle during hard use in comparison to some of the heavy duty 18v drills.

[doubtingtom]

[quote=Velosapien;95543]It is correct that the battery has nothing to do with the drills torque rating. The difference is the Max HC batteries will have a longer runtime since they have a higher amp hour rating. <edit> ....]

Many thanks for the explanation. I had chosen the 14.4v Ridgid when I saw the new closeout price (@ -$30.) on the 18v. The 14.4v spec'd 475 in lbs and had the HC2.5aH batteries so I had a tough time making the choice. I guess the two drills/drivers are very comparable, but I'm still not totally convinced I made the best choice.

Regards,
Tom B

[roadrashray]

[quote=Velosapien;95543]It is correct that the battery has nothing to do with the drills torque rating. The difference is the Max HC batteries will have a longer runtime since they have a higher amp hour rating. <edit> ....]

Many thanks for the explanation. I had chosen the 14.4v Ridgid when I saw the new closeout price (@ -$30.) on the 18v. The 14.4v spec'd 475 in lbs and had the HC2.5aH batteries so I had a tough time making the choice. I guess the two drills/drivers are very comparable, but I'm still not totally convinced I made the best choice.

Regards,
Tom B
I believe you will find that the 18V drill will drive better than the 14.4 in the real world of work. The other bonus is I believe the 18V Lithium Ion batteries will fit in your drill which will provide a power, capacity and durability upgrade if you choose.

[doubtingtom]

[quote=doubtingtom;95564]
I believe you will find that the 18V drill will drive better than the 14.4 in the real world of work. The other bonus is I believe the 18V Lithium Ion batteries will fit in your drill which will provide a power, capacity and durability upgrade if you choose.

Very helpful comment ! .... don't know why the L-I battery option did not get my attention. Thanks for the input ... it makes a real difference.

Tom B

[Disaster]

The biggest weakness of that drill, which has been around a while, is the batteries. It comes with the older 1.4Ah batteries...as opposed to the newer 1.9Ah MaxHC or newer still 2.5Ah Max 2.5.

Of course, better still are the new 3Ah LiIon batteries that come with the $179 drill kit. Ridgid, or Home Depot, have been notoriously slow at offering the latest batteries and chargers as standalone items. I am only just seeing the Max 2.5 batteries in the store. The 24V LiIon are being offered as part of a kit with the charger to go with the MaxSelect tools...but haven't been sold alone either. Wonder how long it will take before we see the 18V LiIon batteries for sale? Even then they will probably be too expensive...if you go by the $70 bucks they charge for the NiCd battery.

[GilBeQuick]

It is correct that the battery has nothing to do with the drills torque rating. The difference is the Max HC batteries will have a longer runtime since they have a higher amp hour rating. The motor will only draw the same amount of current as it needs @ 18v from any of the batteries. The bigger Max batteries will be able to sustain the drain for longer periods.


I would have to strongly disagree. Batteries are rated at more than just they're mah, it's just that all power tool manufacturers tell you is the mah. Low quality cells don't put out as much power as a higher quality cell pack will.

Under no load you can probably even hear the difference in rpm of a freshly charged high quality (HQ) pack vs a lower quality (LQ) pack. Even though packs are rated at 18v, when freshly charged the cells will be closer to 23 volts. HQ cells peak out at higher voltages which will give your drill more power with a fresh pack. HQ cells will also put out more power under load than a LQ cell will. This will give your drill more torque under load. They'll also keep higher voltages longer before dumping out, which will keep you with more power, longer.

There's more to batteries than just mah!


On a side note, people complain about battery pack prices. IMO they're overpriced for what you get, no doubt, but they're gotta make money to stay in business. You can get top quality 3600 mah (3.6A/H) cells for around $6 a pop. $6 X 15cells = $90, and that's just for the cells. I'm sure the big companies could get major volume discounts, so maybe they can get them for $4.50/cell. That's still almost $68 for just the cells, not the casing or time/labor/packaging/shipping/markup to make profit added into that. Would you guys pay $130 for a single battery pack for your 18v drill? Not many people will, that's why they put cheap cells in power tools.

2400 mah cells were outdated a few years ago in the hobby industry, and for some reason they're considered high quality today in the power tool industry. When power tool manufacturers use higher quality cells, the prices go down quickly because they buy in such high volumes. They should quit being cheap!

[Velosapien]

Let me go back to the original topic of the thread. A battery with a higher amp hour rating will NOT give a tool more power. You are talking about a completely different thing. What you are refering to is the power drop off curve from a full charge. Going with a better battery will not give the drill more power. A better battery will leave you a flatter curve with more usable power thats closer to its full charge voltage. Thats not the same thing as saying the battery will offer more power. But that's besides the point because you can't choose what cells go into the batteries any brand tool uses. Lithium Ion batteries will suffer almost no drop off from full charge to almost empty. However, lithium ion batteries of the same voltage will not actually increase the drills power by any means. It will give it more consistant power with less drop off as the battery drains.

There's not much choice when buying NiCD or NiMH anyway. The technology has peaked as far as it can practically go a long time ago and there is little difference in quality between any brand. Lithium Ion varies wildly in the amount of different designs. 3.6ah cells are lithium ion cells and they are normally not sold alone because they need to be pre configured with a computer that monitors them according to the application. Dumb draining and charging a lithium cell like a NiCD battery will kill once if it drains too low and will explode if overcharged or drained too hard.

The reason electronics and hobby batteries with much higher ah ratings is because they use chemistries with higher energy densities. Their downside is the are unstable (read explode and catch fire) with high current draw demands like power tools. The biggest challenge of power tool batteries has been making them stable at high current draw. The compromise is chemistries which have about half the energy density. That's why power tool batteries have seemingly smaller capacities than conventional ones.

[Frankiarmz]

Thanks for all that information and the education it provided. I've been checking E-Bay recently for Ridgid 18 volt Lithium ion batteries and there are no bargains to be found. I think it just makes more sense to buy from H/D for $179 and get going. I like the traits of the lithium ion batteries although the lack of warning when they quit is a bit disappointing. I think I saw something about a indicator on the Ryobi lithium batteries which just came out. Wonder why Ridgid did not add this feature? Back to the batteries, I use NIMH AA's and D cells for flashlights and they do not hold a charge well when stored, I think the lithium ions' will do much better. Price wise $179 for the two batteries, charger and drill doesn't seem that bad.

[Velosapien]

Any Nicad and NiMH battery has a self discharge rate of about 20% in the first 24 hours and about 1 to 5% every following day, no exceptions. Mileage will vary with temperature. Storing them in cold will significantly increase how long they hold their charge. Lithium Ion has virtually no self discharge. They loose about 1 to 5% a month because of the computer that constantly monitors them.

[Velosapien]

Even though packs are rated at 18v, when freshly charged the cells will be closer to 23 volts.
Sticking a multimeter to a battery under no load will not give you its charge. It will just read around the peak voltage,even if its almost dead. Once the battery is under load that drops off right away. 18v is really a marketing term. 18v tools actually run closer to 19-20v. The voltage rating is supposed to be sort of a ball park figure based on the flatest most usable part of the battery curve. Same thing with lithium. They actually charge up to 3.9 to 4.2v but their nominal voltage is actually around 3.3 to 3.6v. A batteries peak voltage drops off very fast after use.


You can get top quality 3600 mah (3.6A/H) cells for around $6 a pop. $6 X 15cells = $90, and that's just for the cells. I'm sure the big companies could get major volume discounts, so maybe they can get them for $4.50/cell. That's still almost $68 for just the cells, not the casing or time/labor/packaging/shipping/markup to make profit added into that. Would you guys pay $130 for a single battery pack for your 18v drill? Not many people will, that's why they put cheap cells in power tools.


You couldn't buy any of those cells even if you wanted to. Currently there are few people manufacturing lithium manganese cells for power tools and the few that are, have exclusive contracts. If you actually find out who's making batteries for power tools you'll probably be surprised that they actually use the absolute best in the market. Makita uses Sony which is the worlds battery supplier, Milwaukee uses Molicell, Panasonic uses their own and they are really good at making high tech batteries, Dewalt uses A123 systems which is regarded by many as the absolute cutting edge when it comes to lithium ion. There really is no such thing as low grade lithium ion batteries. Their inherent danger requires very tight manufacturing tolerances and its a huge liability for anyone to cut corners and build cheap cells, let alone use cheap cells in their products. Just look at what happened to Sony, one of the premiere battery makers when a few of their batteries blew and about 10 million batteries were recalled.

[Disaster]

Any Nicad and NiMH battery has a self discharge rate of about 20% in the first 24 hours and about 1 to 5% every following day, no exceptions. Mileage will vary with temperature. Storing them in cold will significantly increase how long they hold their charge. Lithium Ion has virtually no self discharge. They loose about 1 to 5% a month because of the computer that constantly monitors them.

There is actually a revolutionary new technology in NiMh that allows batteries to keep up to 80% of their charge over a year later. GE/Sanyo Eneloops are one brand. Rayovac sells another called Rayovac hybrids. The energy density of these is a little lower than the better cells today but still good (2Ah vs. 2.8Ah) and in just a few weeks the low self discharge batteries will have more power than the higher powered normal cells.

In fact, they hold their charge so well, they sell them precharged and ready to go.

I'm not sure why we haven't seen the technology in tool batteries yet. So far, it's only been sold in AA and AAA batteries. Perhaps it is too expensive....even compared to Lithium. Perhaps it can't deliver as high a discharge rate (though they do seem to deliver very high discharge rates in testing.)

http://www.eneloop.com.au/

http://www.rayovac.com/recharge/hybrid_faq.shtml

[Disaster]

Sticking a multimeter to a battery under no load will not give you its charge. It will just read around the peak voltage,even if its almost dead. Once the battery is under load that drops off right away. 18v is really a marketing term. 18v tools actually run closer to 19-20v. The voltage rating is supposed to be sort of a ball park figure based on the flatest most usable part of the battery curve. Same thing with lithium. They actually charge up to 3.9 to 4.2v but their nominal voltage is actually around 3.3 to 3.6v. A batteries peak voltage drops off very fast after use.


The voltage is actually lower than it should be because most companies now "cheat" on higher voltage packs.

The flat part of the curve, for NiMh and NiCd is about 1.2V per cell. This is why we see nice even amounts like 12 volts, 9.6 volts, 14.4 volts...etc...all multiples of 1.2V.

However most manufacturers only put 14 batteries in 18 volt packs. If you divide 18 by 1.2 it should be 15. They get away with this because NiCds and NiMh run closer to 1.4 volts at full charge so they deliver almost 20 volts when "full."

What is funny is the Sears C3 19.2 volt tools actually use the correct amount of batteries for a true 18 volts, flat curve.

[Velosapien]

Interesting stuff about the new NiMH batteries. There's still a market for that sort of battery because NiMH still serve as replacements for alkaline batteries and all the equipment out there that needs 1.2v-1.5v cells. Lithium ion can't fill that role. Speaking of cheating in voltage ratings. The good old alkaline battery is a perfect example of this. Alkaline's are rated at 1.5v even though their curve drops sharply down to 1.2v in like the first 5%. They are relistically about 1.25v which is why it's ok to use NiMH or NiCD in devices that use alkaline batteries.

[Disaster]

Interesting stuff about the new NiMH batteries. There's still a market for that sort of battery because NiMH still serve as replacements for alkaline batteries and all the equipment out there that needs 1.2v-1.5v cells. Lithium ion can't fill that role.

I've started replacing all the alkalines in our house with Eneloops. This wasn't possible with previous generation NiMh's, in the lower drain devices, like flashlights and remotes, because the self drain was higher than the drain from the device. With the Eneloops I can pick up a flashlight after 6 months and know it will still have most of it's charge left.

Costco has a really good deal on the Eneloops right now. They sell a pack that includes 8 AA's, 4 AAA's and a really good charger with 4 descrete charge circuits for $28. Around my house, with AA's in everything from camera flashes to Wii remotes, it will pay for itself in a year.

There are lithium AA and AAA cells sold for replacements for Alkalines. Because of the higher voltage they are only for products with pairs of cells that you replace with the single LiIon and dummy cells...or hardwire for them. Then you have to decide if you want to also buy the protection circuit to keep the lithiums from overdraining which spells instant death to them. I considered that route, before the new, LSD (low self discharge) NiMh's were available, but decided it was way to complicated and expensive.

[Velosapien]

I'm going to look into getting some of those. Alkalines are an annoying expense because there is so much need for them. I haven't used rechargables because it's just totally impractical to have to be recharging remote control batteries every few days.

[Disaster]

On a side note, people complain about battery pack prices. IMO they're overpriced for what you get, no doubt, but they're gotta make money to stay in business. You can get top quality 3600 mah (3.6A/H) cells for around $6 a pop. $6 X 15cells = $90, and that's just for the cells. I'm sure the big companies could get major volume discounts, so maybe they can get them for $4.50/cell. That's still almost $68 for just the cells, not the casing or time/labor/packaging/shipping/markup to make profit added into that.


The manufacturers DO get a huge discount. That is why you will see RC hobbiests buying DeWalt 36 volt LiIon packs to tear apart for the batteries inside. It is cheaper to buy them this way than as individual cells. DeWalt uses the same A123 cells that are sold for $18 to $20 per cell. The packs can be found at some online stores for as little as $140 ($14 per cells) and sometimes on Ebay for as little as $100 ($10 per cell.)

If people are selling the packs for $10/battery it is likely that DeWalt is paying considerably less for them...maybe $6 or $8 dollars.

[Disaster]

2400 mah cells were outdated a few years ago in the hobby industry, and for some reason they're considered high quality today in the power tool industry. When power tool manufacturers use higher quality cells, the prices go down quickly because they buy in such high volumes. They should quit being cheap!

It has to do with durability and self discharge rates. It is much harder to produce a higher Ah battery that is "robust." Also, higher Ah batteries necessarily have higher self discharge rates which make them much less desireable for tools, which might sit a several weeks between use. RC racers don't mind topping off their batteries before a race but contractors would find that a huge hassle.

[Disaster]

Alkaline's are rated at 1.5v even though their curve drops sharply down to 1.2v in like the first 5%. They are realistically about 1.25v which is why it's ok to use NiMH or NiCD in devices that use alkaline batteries.

Alkalines don't just drop as they wear out, they drop tremendously with current draw because the slow dry chemistry used. That is why they work poorly for higher drain devices like flashes and digital cameras. It takes maybe 3 seconds to recharge my camera flash with rechargeables, more like 20 with alkalines.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

Actually there are AA sized lithium cells that put out 1.5V and are drop-in replacements for the usual AA alkalines. I forget who makes them (I believe it's Energizer or one of those big companies). They are not rechargeable though.

Lithium ion can't fill that role.

[Woussko]

http://www.energizer.com/products/lithium/default.aspx

http://www.energizer.com/products/lithium/faqs.aspx

They come in AAA and AA sizes now. They aren't cheap, but they do hold up very well in the devices they were intended to be used in.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

Thanks, Woussko.

I think too that they are the only ones making them right now, but could be wrong on that.

[Velosapien]

Yeah, actually plain lithium (non ion) cells are a very old technology. They are also used as the typical coin type batteries and have been used in camera batteries for decades. Plain lithium batteries are a little bit of a different animal though. They can not be rechargable since batteries with actual lithium are extremely unstable during recharge. Lithium is a very unstable element. That's where the break through in lithium ion comes in. Lithium ion rechargables contiain no actual lithium, or extremely little, they just use lithium ion's to achieve a stable product, hence the name. Like Disaster stated, there are drop in replacement in standard sizes but they will only work in devices where one cell can take the place of at least two or three standard ~1.2v cells. Devices that use less cells will could/will get fried if you drop in a 3.6v lithium ion cell. Then there's the issue of the protection circuits. The good thing about lithium ion is that the technology still has a lot of headroom to evolve so I wouldn't doubt that we'll see them start filling roles that are currenty impossible or impractical.

[Velosapien]

http://www.energizer.com/products/lithium/default.aspx

http://www.energizer.com/products/lithium/faqs.aspx

They come in AAA and AA sizes now. They aren't cheap, but they do hold up very well in the devices they were intended to be used in.

Thats sort of what I was refering to. Lithium batteries have been used in custom camera style batteries for a long time. The technology was invented in the 70's. I have Canon SLR cameras from the 80's that already used lithium batteries. Energizer got a clue and is making them in standard sizes since so many electronics and cemeras run on AAA and AA batteries.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

The jist that I have heard from that scene is that the A123 cells kick major a-ss too.

I don't think that DeWalt is exploiting the maximum capabilities of the cells though. They seem to limit the tools to a certain level (such as the circular saw battery protection phenomenon I mentioned in the other thread) probably with the intent of ensuring that the battery will last a long time. But I think the A123 cells can put out something like 70Amps. They can also be charged much faster than 1 hour as well. But typically when you start pushing things like that, the batteries will wear out faster in terms of charge cycles.

That is why you will see RC hobbiests buying DeWalt 36 volt LiIon packs to tear apart for the batteries inside.

[Velosapien]

Dewalt marketing aside, A123 systems is the battery of choice anyone who wants cuting edge batteries for their projects. All the high tech gadgets and most of those prototype electric cars choose their technology. You can read all the information about them out there and they are clearly very highly regarded. Dewalt seems to have taken a safe approach to their batteries. My guess is they need to establish a reputation first that the batteries will not fail. Not to mention keep service calls low. It's will cost them a pretty penny if they have to start replacing an excessive amount of batteries under warranty. I had pointed out earlier in another thread their original marketing claimed 90% charge in 5 minutes. This is possible since the lower energy density of high current draw cells have the advantage they can charge much faster. Makita is taking full advantage of this with their new fast chargers but I'm wondering how this will affect their longetivity.

[Velosapien]

The jist that I have heard from that scene is that the A123 cells kick major a-ss too.




Very soon it might not just be RC cars, but the real thing. They are being used in several electric car prototypes.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

There was also an article about them being used in a rope lift system for rescue workers (kind of like a "Batman" sort of thing :D) Pretty cool!

[Velosapien]

I remember seeing that. Quite cool, it was developed by some MIT students if I remember correctly.

Here's a report about A123's latest technology and it's very positive.
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/sep07/5490

[bob bridgewater]

Check out the new RYOBI cordless kit for $259.00
http://www.ryobitools.com/lithium/

[Disaster]

Actually there are AA sized lithium cells that put out 1.5V and are drop-in replacements for the usual AA alkalines. I forget who makes them (I believe it's Energizer or one of those big companies). They are not rechargeable though.

Yeah, but like you said, they aren't rechargeable. The Lithium non-rechargeables are about the least cost effective batteries you can buy.

[Disaster]

The jist that I have heard from that scene is that the A123 cells kick major a-ss too.

I don't think that DeWalt is exploiting the maximum capabilities of the cells though. They seem to limit the tools to a certain level (such as the circular saw battery protection phenomenon I mentioned in the other thread) probably with the intent of ensuring that the battery will last a long time. But I think the A123 cells can put out something like 70Amps. They can also be charged much faster than 1 hour as well. But typically when you start pushing things like that, the batteries will wear out faster in terms of charge cycles.

A123 cells can push very high currents. Additionally, they can be drained much lower than traditional LithiumPoly cells. Their chemistry is also much less flammable so if they are shorted they won't blow up....unlike traditional LiIon cells which, if you've read the news you already know, have been the cause of many fires.

DeWalts power limits might have nothing to do with the protecting the batteries. Motors and wiring have current limits. Perhaps the limits are to protect those other components.

I'm curious at what technology batteries the other manufacturers are using...like Ryobi. There are other technologies/chemistries out there that have similar characteristics to A123, but several of the manufacturers of those where being sued by A123 for violating it's patents. If I recall, A123 licensed technologies or worked with MIT for the patents. They, in turn, were being sued by another U of Texas for violating it's patents. The whole thing could get real messy.

http://271patent.blogspot.com/2006/09/patent-battle-heats-up-for-lithium.html

[doubtingtom]

Lots of good info on my first post here! __ Good news!

Bad news __ I added a MaxSelect Recip saw (bare tool) and was ready to add the MaxSelect Impact Driver (bare tool). Then I saw the MaxSelect Starter Kit ($150.) and decided this is the way to go for the future.... NOT !!!!!

Tried to buy an extra 24v Li-Ion battery. MUST be special ordered (per Ridgid). Bitched like hell (like buying a new car and being told I have to special order the gasoline!). Then called HD .... they had to check with Ridgid .... HD called back in one hour to inform me $187.50 for one battery and 8-12 weeks!

I am now in 'reconsider' mode and may take time to evaluate the A123 battery comments made here earlier. I hestitate to make any ill-considered comments so soon so I'll simply note that it seems like Ridgid (and HD) has/have not got their battery program together yet. :confused:

Regards,
Tom B

[Velosapien]

This has been a long ongoing problem with Ridgid's 24v tools. There are a bunch of topics discussing the lack of availability of individual batteries. If you want these tools you should buy the 24v 3 piece kit (drill, recip saw, falsh light), or if you can get a hold of one, the original 4 piece with the circular saw. Its a lot more cost effective, a much better deal and cheaper than buying max select tools with starter kits.

[Disaster]

Tried to buy an extra 24v Li-Ion battery. MUST be special ordered (per Ridgid). Bitched like hell (like buying a new car and being told I have to special order the gasoline!). Then called HD .... they had to check with Ridgid .... HD called back in one hour to inform me $187.50 for one battery and 8-12 weeks!

Regards,
Tom B

That is crazy considering they were selling the MaxSelect battery kit, R937, with charger and 24 volt battery for $150 during the Christmas sales. It's normal price was $200.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R937-24V-Starter-Kit/EN/index.htm

If you are looking for individual tools you can find the best deals on Ebay (though you won't get the lifetime warranty.) People buy kits and part them out. You can find individual tools, chargers and batteries for much cheaper there. For example, I just did a search for the MaxSelect reciprocating saw on Ebay completed auctions and in the last week one sold for $76 and another for $82. Batteries were fetching a pretty high price, from $80 to $120...which is directly related to how expensive they are in the stores and how hard they are to find.

[doubtingtom]

This has been a long ongoing problem with Ridgid's 24v tools. .... If you want these tools you should buy the 24v 3 piece kit (drill, recip saw, flash light), or if you can get a hold of one, the original 4 piece with the circular saw. Its a lot more cost effective, a much better deal and cheaper than buying max select tools with starter kits.

There is a kit here at HD, but the drill is a hammer drill. I now need to figure out if I can use it effectively for my more limited routine tasks ... I am ignorant about this and do not know the possible negatives.

Thanks and regards,
Tom B

[Velosapien]

Don't worry about it being a hammerdrill. The function can be turned of and used as a regular drill/driver. Almost every high end drill is a hammerdrill. Most manufacturers don't even bother making non-hammer versions because it barely saves anything in cost, weight, or size. Most stores don't even bother stocking the non-hammer models either.

Even if you don't need it, it's a good feature to have available. The day you actually need to drill into concrete, block, or brick you'll be stuck if you have a standard drill driver as it will pretty useless in that case.

The 24v is a pretty big drill though so you might find it cumbersome for small everyday tasks. Unfortunately no one makes kits with compact drill/drivers.

[doubtingtom]

Don't worry about it being a hammerdrill. The function can be turned off and used as a regular drill/driver. Almost every high end drill is a hammerdrill. ............ <edit> ..........
The 24v is a pretty big drill though so you might find it cumbersome for small everyday tasks. Unfortunately no one makes kits with compact drill/drivers.

Many thanks!! I went back to HD, they had the 24v L-I kit, and priced down from $379. to $269. !! Recip saw, hammmer drill, light, (2) 24v L-I batts , charger, and tool bag. Seems like a really terrific deal .. BUT .. I always get nervous when the deal seems too good ... :confused: The 24v L-I system is new and could be problemmatical, yet with Ridgid's Lifetime Service on all the items, I should be pretty well protected ??

If my new 18v drill had HC 2.5AHr batteries I might have stayed there, but ...................... I did take out the hammer drill and it feels and looks almost identical to the 18v recently purchased.

If you experienced Ridgid pros feel this is the better way to go then I should be a happy camper. :D

Regards,
Tom B

[Frankiarmz]

I've been using Ridgid 18 volt nicad tools with no complaints other than the batteries seeming to not last very long. I toyed around in HD with the 24volt lithium Ridgid and found it to be a bit heavy and clumsy. The 18volt lithium ion battery seems to be the best of both worlds, more steady power, no battery memory to consider, will hold the charge longer when not in use and at 2.9 AH? it's slightly better than the 2.5AH nicads. The price you mentioned for the 24 volt set was awfully low? Unless you really need the extra torque I'd go with the 18volt lithium and build from there. I like the hammer/drill strong and sturdy, but seriously if I had to do a lot of hammer drill work in my opinion Hilti is the way to go. No harm in having this extra feature on your drill for the rare occassion you may need it .

[roadrashray]

There is a kit here at HD, but the drill is a hammer drill. I now need to figure out if I can use it effectively for my more limited routine tasks ... I am ignorant about this and do not know the possible negatives.

Thanks and regards,
Tom B
Yep.......You're turning into the tool company dream guy. "What I have might not be good enough, maybe this bigger dog".
I started out with the 24 V LI set with the hammer drill, circ saw, recip saw, light, charger and two batteries just before new year cause it was on sale for $319.00 and included a free extra tool which I used to get the maxselect jigsaw.
Had to exchange the first set due to defective batteries. That problem seems to have been cured as I haven't seen any posts related to it lately.
The circ saw and recip saw are great with the 24V batteries as both of them like alot of power. The 24V hammer drill gets old fast unless you are doing deck work because of teh weight.
I purchased the 18V lith. Ion compact drill when it came out. Now the 24V hammer drill sits in the bag most of the time. The 18V LI compact is a dream. Light, powerfull, easy to handle.
Last but certainly not least is the maxselect impact tool. It makes driving big screws a dream especially overhead ot in any other tight spots. Just rattles the screw in with no torque on the elbow. Has a built in light like the compact drill for those tight dark spots up between rafters. I have only used the 18V LI battery with the impact tool and it is light and sweet.
I haven't used the jig saw much. I tried the planer and returned it because I couldn't get it to smooth the edge of a 1" board.
Extra 24V LI batteries are a joke so far. After waiting several months for HD to get some invevtory I sent an email to MY E-box. They returned an e-mail stating that HD could special order 24V LI batteries. Printed the email and went to HD customer service today. After trying to locate the battery on the HD computer system she called Ridgid.
Ridgid told her they had no process for HD to order individual batteries and the customer(me) would have to get the batteries from their national parts distributor.
The Home Depot customer service lady used her phone and we called 1-877-544-9253. The customer service person at the national parts dist. needed the part number which is 130377001. She then told me they could ship a 24V LI battery out today if for $199.00 plus shipping. I asked if that was for one or two batteries. She said "one" and I said "thank you very much" and hung up. That is totaly insane of course. Ridgid is not using much sense in their marketing process of these batteries. Fortunately I don't need it yet because I can mix the 24V LI and the 18V LI.
Anyway Tom, that's all I know. Last I knew you were agonizing over an entry level 18V nicad drill. Now you're hooked.
Good luck...Ray

[doubtingtom]

Yep.......You're turning into the tool company dream guy. "What I have might not be good enough, maybe this bigger dog".
............................. Now you're hooked.
Good luck...Ray

OK, now I'm starting to oscillate a bit ..... I'm starting to wonder if 24v L-I may not be like 14.4v NiCad ..... sort of a 'tweener' as the industry goes from very low v to 12v to 18v to 36v. That is my 'serious' immediate concern with the 24v kit <which I have not opened yet>. I will be weighing the hammer drill shortly to compare to my 18v drill/driver. In my hands they felt very similar. I identify strongly with your 18v L-I comments and feel that I could do well with that solution. The problem is much the same ....... what is availability of 18v L-I Ridgid batteries? (and the cost).

I really need to go back to 'basics' ..... 'I' don't get something for nothing ..... I could easily sit on my 18v 1/2" drill (HC 1.4AH batts) situation for some time (as the L-I scenario matures). My only risk is $90. .... to buy two 18v HV 2.5 AH batts at HD (in stock). Total investment is low and they are a 'proven' performer.

Dang! This is a challenge (= PITA).

Thanks guys ... I really do appreciate the perspectives and comments.

Regards,
Tom B

[doubtingtom]

Wrapping it up ?? !!

Many thanks for all the helpful comments and relevant experiences. All of my choices are reasonably good ones, but the 18v Li-Ion direction seems to be one I feel best about. For slightly more ($31.) than the 24v 'kit' I can get the 18v with 2 batts & charger and keep the MaxSelect Recip saw. I trade off work time with the saw but gain lighter weight with the drill. I weighed the 24v Hammer this morning at 4lb 11.5oz versus the 18v at 3lb 6.5oz (1lb 5oz heavier). The 24v batt is 4.5oz heavier making the total tool over 1lb 9oz heavier. Definitely a better choice for those who need it.

The most important thing is that I'm making an 'informed' choice and that is important.

Thanks and regards,
Tom B

[Disaster]

Wrapping it up ?? !!

Many thanks for all the helpful comments and relevant experiences. All of my choices are reasonably good ones, but the 18v Li-Ion direction seems to be one I feel best about. For slightly more ($31.) than the 24v 'kit' I can get the 18v with 2 batts & charger and keep the MaxSelect Recip saw. I trade off work time with the saw but gain lighter weight with the drill. I weighed the 24v Hammer this morning at 4lb 11.5oz versus the 18v at 3lb 6.5oz (1lb 5oz heavier). The 24v batt is 4.5oz heavier making the total tool over 1lb 9oz heavier. Definitely a better choice for those who need it.

The most important thing is that I'm making an 'informed' choice and that is important.

Thanks and regards,
Tom B

If you don't need the hammerdrill function...and most people don't (how often do you drill into concrete?) the 18 volt drill is probably a better option.

Also, IMHO, the 18 volt lithium battery is a more mature product. Ridgid made the mistake of integrating electronics in the 24 volt battery that constantly drain the battery. This negates one of the main advantages of Lithium...the batteries always being charged up when you need them. I haven't lived with the 18V batteries long enough to see whether they have the same problem but I notice they eliminated the battery check circuit so I wouldn't be surprised if they eliminated the energy sapping internal circuit as well. I'm seriously considering dismantling one of the 24 volt cells to see if I can install some type of switch that will disconnect the circuit for storage.

As far as your previous comment, I don't think 24 volt is just a middle step to 36 volt. I think the companies got into a little race of oneupmanship with these high voltages and they really are more of a niche product. Most people would trade a little power for a lot of portability. That is why you see lighter weight 14.4 and 18 volt tools increasing in popularity.

[doubtingtom]

Subtle and quite relevant info. The tradeoffs are now pretty visible and I have another issue separating the 18v & 24v. Been driving composite deck trim screws all morning and it's a good time to break and head for HD. ;)

Best regards,
Tom B

[Frankiarmz]

Before you spend $90.00 for the twin pack 18volt nicads, consider that for $179.00 you get two 18volt lithium ions, charger and drill! Even if you don't need the drill you could probably get $50.00 for it and still keep the batteries and charger. From everything I'm reading the Lithium Ion Batteries make the nicads a thing of the past, so why invest more money in old technology? Longer run times, less discharge when not in use and no memory. I may get mine tomorrow or Monday. :)

[doubtingtom]

Just picked up the 18v Li-Ion drill kit at HD for $179. Drill weighs 3lb 6oz (same as 18v NiCad version) BUT 18v Li-Ion batt weighs only 1lb 1oz (and is notably 'thinner' than either the NiCad or 24v Li-Ion) !! That's close to 1lb lighter. This should be a very comfortable tool to handle.

I'm not back to full sanity yet ..... 24v Li-Ion 3pc kit is still in the car (just in case ... ???? ). Already starting to wonder ..... the batts are so small, are they much lower AmpHr rating than the 24v Li-Ion? That could make a difference if they are down around 1.5 AHr and 24v is 3.0 ! Any definitive answers on this?

Hopeless ... :eek:

Tom B

[Disaster]

Already starting to wonder ..... the batts are so small, are they much lower AmpHr rating than the 24v Li-Ion? That could make a difference if they are down around 1.5 AHr and 24v is 3.0 !

Hopeless ... :eek:
Tom B

They are both 3Ah according to Ridgid. However, the 24 volt would have more power because it does deliver 24 volts. Power equals amps times volts times time. So the 30% more power. It also need 30% more cells, which is one of the reasons it is bigger. Having said that, Ridgid must be using more efficient cells in the 18 volt, or pack less in the battery...perhaps part of it can be explained by the lack of the some internal circuits in the 18 volt.

Like I said, the 18 volt is a more mature product. I wonder if Ridgid will come out with a more compact and efficient 24 volt battery down the road?

[doubtingtom]

Thanks for the spec update. So far just a few easy trim screws, but the drill seems to be running just a tad faster (higher pitch) and is a joy to handle.

Seems like your thoughts on a 'more basic' 24v Li-Ion batt would make lots of sense. I don't fully understand the internal monitoring and 'cell balancing' process but perhaps the extra 24v cells require it to function properly?

The 18v drill is a 'no brainer' for me, but I bet I would really appreciate the 24v batts on the Ridgid recip saw! Maybe a 'mixed' battery kit would make sense. Seems like that would cover lots of needs for 'home' users like me.

Regards,
Tom B

[canucksartech]

Tom,

IMHO, you're best to do a mix, like what you're thinking of now. Keep the 18V lithium-ion compact drill - it is a real treat to use, and pays for itself in dividends based on the lack of wrist/hand/arm fatigue in using it. If you can afford to, keep the 3-piece 24V kit, or try to find yourself the 4-piece version of this one if you can. The 24volt tools are made all in the MaxSelect-capability now, I believe, so that you can use the 18V batteries on the recip, or flashlight, etc. (However, do NOT use the 24volt battery on the 18V compact drill - it won't let you, because the tabs don't line up for the bigger battery, but don't try it anyway). Also, that way, you now have 4 batteries - two 18volt (perfect for using with the drill, and the flashlight), and two 24volt (for using on the higher drain tools, like the recip). Return your MaxSelect tools - the ones, anyways, that you can get in the kit.

If you are worried about the old problems with the 24volt batteries, don't worry about it. That's what the 3 year warranty, and then the LLSA, are for. Also, a few people are still upset about the first batch of 24volt batteries having a fair number of problems, but as someone said earlier, that seems to be a problem that has been corrected. Even if there's an issue with slow drain on the 24's, you still have an amazing shelf life with them, due to being lithium-ion batteries. And you'd have 2 batteries of each voltage - more than enough to tide you over while you work and maybe need to top one up on the charger, or even for the 1/2 hour that one would need to fully recharge.

If you do the math, it is waaaaay more cost efficient to pick up the kit. You will appreciate the differences in the 2 different power levels with these batteries - they will be all you would need and more. And, if you don't feel that you would get a lot of use out of the 24V hammer drill, then sell it to a buddy who also has Ridgid tools, or on eBay. You'll probably get around $70 or $80 for it (solo, without batteries or chager). This now would make the kit that much better of a deal. And/or, use the money to pick up a MaxSelect impact driver (around $119 still, I believe). If you are flip-flopping around between the 18V compact and the 24V hammerdrill for the power advantages, but you don't actually intend on using it alot for actual cement/masonry drilling, then the MaxSelect impact is a perfect partner to go along with the 18V compact li-ion drill. If you do more than 20-30% of your driving with screws longer than 1 1/2 inches, then you'll really come to love the impact. It's a noisy mule, but using it with 3" deck screws or construction/framing screws, it is a pure dream. Once you use an impact, you never go back! :D

[doubtingtom]

Tom,

IMHO, you're best to do a mix, like what you're thinking of now. Keep the 18V lithium-ion compact drill - it is a real treat to use, and pays for itself in dividends based on the lack of wrist/hand/arm fatigue in using it. If you can afford to, keep the 3-piece 24V kit, or try to find yourself the 4-piece version of this one if you can. <edit> ......... the MaxSelect impact is a perfect partner to go along with the 18V compact li-ion drill. If you do more than 20-30% of your driving with screws longer than 1 1/2 inches, then you'll really come to love the impact. It's a noisy mule, but using it with 3" deck screws or construction/framing screws, it is a pure dream. Once you use an impact, you never go back! :D

I really relate to your comments and am considering keeping both sets. No question, I would be in 'tool junky' heaven if I could do this and easily swap the hammer drill for the impact driver. Not so easy in my small town so the decision is a bit more difficult. The MaxSelect jig saw is also high on my list versus the hammer drill.

Thanks for taking time to add your thoughts. No matter what, the helpful info in this thread has let me make much better choices.

Regards,
Tom B

[doubtingtom]

I had a long (face-to-face) talk with a serious tool junky and electrical contractor over the week-end. His comments must be tempered slightly given his age <40's> and strong, stocky build. He feels strongly about heavier, more powerful battery tools allowing him to do most jobs more quickly and effectively than with lighter, less 'torque_y' versions. He states this in the context that most of his work involves short 'stints' with different tools versus having to carry and continuously operate a single tool. He also feels strongly in favor of the 24v battery in spite of the monitoring circuitry, greater bulk and higher weight. Finally, he would opt for the Hammer Drill in virtually all cases and prefers it to a combination of drill and impact driver.

I am notably older than this gentleman, but plenty big enough and strong enough to use the heavier tools without major discomfort. This, plus the many helpful comments in this thread are pushing me fairly hard to go with the Ridgid 24v 3pc L-I Kit ($269.). It is clearly not a 'black & white' choice, but with Ridgid's Lifetime Service program, I feel pretty well protected.

This has been a long thread and I hesitate to 'beat the topic to death', but will surely appreciate any additional 'refining' comments which might add perspective so I can finalize things today. :rolleyes:

Best regards,
Tom B

[Disaster]

Even if there's an issue with slow drain on the 24's, you still have an amazing shelf life with them, due to being lithium-ion batteries. And you'd have 2 batteries of each voltage - more than enough to tide you over while you work and maybe need to top one up on the charger, or even for the 1/2 hour that one would need to fully recharge.

That hasn't been my experience. I use my 24 volt tools less often because I usually don't need that much power...say once every couple to three months. When I reach for them the batteries are always dead or nearly so. That isn't any better than conventional NiCds. Heck, I keep my NiCds in the refrigerator and in there, they actually hold up better than the Ridgid 24's. In comparison, my 14.4v lithium Panasonic and even my cheap B&D lithium drill are always full.

If you are someone who uses your tools every day...or once a week...or maybe even once a month...you probably wouldn't find this too big a hassle. At my level I find it extremely annoying that I have to put the darn batteries on the charger for 20 minutes to get decent use out of them. I will either eventually dump the 24 volt tools altogether, or invalidate the warranty by dismantling the battery and installing a circuit disconnection switch.

Plus, there is one other nagging thing that I worry about. Lithium Ion doesn't like to be drained below a particular voltage level. To do so, seriously damages the batteries. I wonder if the Ridgid battery circuit is smart enough not to overdrain the batteries. On top of that, there is a limited number of charge cycles in a Lithium battery. Everytime the internal circuit drains the battery you just used up a charge cycle. This is probably less of a concern than the low voltage drain because if a self discharge takes 2 months you are only talking about 6 charge cycles "lost" per year but it is still annoying.

At this point the best preventative maintenance is to set up a schedule where you put the batteries back on the charger once a month. That is what I have started doing.

[doubtingtom]

That hasn't been my experience. I use my 24 volt tools less often because I usually don't need that much power...say once every couple to three months. When I reach for them the batteries are always dead or nearly so. That isn't any better than conventional NiCds.

CRUD!! :( Your scenario is also mine, so I must now go back to the 18v L-I drill/driver or consider a different manufacturer. My weekend contact also uses his tools daily so he would not have your perspective. Ridgid still seems like my best choice due to potential infrequent usage and the Lifetime Service program.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

** Your quote ** "At this point the best preventative maintenance is to set up a schedule where you put the batteries back on the charger once a month. That is what I have started doing."

Seems like this is what is a good program for quality Ni-Cads ..... wondering if I should just stay with the 'proven' HC2.5 AHr tools for the present.

Tom B

[canucksartech]

Disaster,

When did you purchase your 24volt stuff? I'm wondering if they have it corrected on the newer product. My dad has the full set that he bought back in March/April (plus portions of another set). He did a little wait-and-see test of his own where he let one fully-charged battery sit until the August holiday weekend, when he needed both batteries for a big job. He took one battery when he bought it, and fully charged it, and then sat it in a tool cupboard in his garage/shop. He took it out during this repair on the first weekend in August, and compared this battery to one that he had just freshly charged. Used both in the drill, one after another, to do a line of fencing. He said that the one that was sitting showed about a 3/4 charge when he started, and lasted about 70% to 85% when compared to the fresh one.

Not scientific, I know, but I'm wondering what kind of an issue fresher stock may come to play in this, if they've got this situation panned out more on the newer product, compared with earlier versions.

[Disaster]

I am notably older than this gentleman, but plenty big enough and strong enough to use the heavier tools without major discomfort.

It isn't so much whether you are strong enough as how much less convenient and ungainly heavier tools are. Once you've used a 2 and 1/2 pound drill for to hand curtain rods it feels downright silly to do the same job with a 7 pound Ridgid hammerdrill. Plus the larger drill is that much harder to carry on your belt or in your pocket and that much harder to fit in tight spaces.

If I could only have one drill it might be the Ridgid 24 but it might just as likely be a corded drill because that delivers power beyond any cordless. I'm not saying the 24 volt tool's power isn't great....just that it is probably least necessary in the drill. The circular saw and reciprocating saws benefit more.

Don't underestimate the usefulness and practicality of a nice lightweight drill. Once you have one you most likely will find the 24 volt Ridgid drill gathering dust at the bottom of your toolbox.

[Disaster]

Disaster,

When did you purchase your 24volt stuff? I'm wondering if they have it corrected on the newer product. My dad has the full set that he bought back in March/April (plus portions of another set). He did a little wait-and-see test of his own where he let one fully-charged battery sit until the August holiday weekend, when he needed both batteries for a big job. He took one battery when he bought it, and fully charged it, and then sat it in a tool cupboard in his garage/shop. He took it out during this repair on the first weekend in August, and compared this battery to one that he had just freshly charged. Used both in the drill, one after another, to do a line of fencing. He said that the one that was sitting showed about a 3/4 charge when he started, and lasted about 70% to 85% when compared to the fresh one.

Not scientific, I know, but I'm wondering what kind of an issue fresher stock may come to play in this, if they've got this situation panned out more on the newer product, compared with earlier versions.

I'd like to see more comments like that. I bought mine around Xmas of last year. I bought several of the 4 piece sets on clearance because they were such a good deal. I haven't done very scientific studies myself, just pulled them out of the basement when needed and observed the short life. After a charge they seem pretty good.

I'd love it if it were a battery issue that Ridgid has been fixed because, with the lifetime warranty, I'd just get them replaced.

One other thing. I've found the battery gauge to not be that accurate. It will fall from 3 or 4 lines to 1 pretty fast on a low battery. It will also jump to 4 lines pretty fast when charging...giving a false reading of charge rate.

[doubtingtom]

(viz-a-viz .. your comment) My DeWalt 3/8" corded drill is what makes this choice harder for me. Your comment brings the new Bosch 10.8v L-I drill/driver into the picture. There is just no easy battery selection for Ridgid's neat Impact Driver as an alternative.

Tom B

[Disaster]

Seems like this is what is a good program for quality Ni-Cads ..... wondering if I should just stay with the 'proven' HC2.5 AHr tools for the present.


IMHO, even at $100, the Max2.5 is not as good a deal as the 18 volt lithium ion set at $180. I will use the lighter lithium tool much more often than the 7 pound hammer drill. Plus, the lithium batteries are 3Ah and they do appear to be holding their charge (though I only bought mine a month ago so I need more time to evaluate this.)

The Ridgid 18 volt lithium drill set is about the best deal out there right now in a lithium drill. Ryobi has one now and B&D makes one without a built in battery (can be serviced by owner) which are great values but considerably below the Ridgid drill in terms of ruggedness. If you look at the other tools the comparison gets worse. The Ryobi reciprocating saw is a toylike joke compared to the Ridgid.

Also, Google for a HomeDepot or Lowes 10% off coupon. You email them and they either email them back to you in a couple weeks or mail them to your home. HD honors Lowes coupons.

[doubtingtom]

For my 'restricted' scenario you have really hit the key points and I already have the tried the Ridgid 18v L-I drill. For the puny extra $31. it seems to offer much, much more than the Bosch 10.8v. Lots of minor compromises trying to fit all into one tool, but I agree with you Ridgid 18v L-I preference.

Tedious process, but it feels good to have time and sound inputs to sort out the right result.

Regards,
Tom B

[Disaster]

(viz-a-viz .. your comment) My DeWalt 3/8" corded drill is what makes this choice harder for me. Your comment brings the new Bosch 10.8v L-I drill/driver into the picture. There is just no easy battery selection for Ridgid's neat Impact Driver as an alternative.

Tom B

While that tool is "cute" it is, IMHO, wayyyy overpriced. It might be the perfect tool for a cabinet maker who wants something lightweight to reach for and can justify the cost because it is part of this business. Also, remember it is a 1/4 quick disconnect chuck which can't really replace a small drill.

Another lightweight set to consider is the new Makita 18 volt lithium drill and driver set sold at HD for $270. The batteries are only 1.5Ah, but that is plenty for most small jobs and you get a very nice, lightweight impact driver. Once you've used an impact, you will ask yourself what you did all these years without one. The bad thing about the Makita is I haven't heard great reviews on the rest of the tools...ie there is some pretty unhappy reviews of the recriprocating saw, for example. On the other hand your lightweight drill might not need to be compatible with the rest of your tools.

I agonized over this decision, myself, till I ended up buying the Panasonic 14.4 volt drill and impact driver set. This was an expensive option and I might not have gone that way had the Ridgid 18 volt lithium or Makita drill/impact set been available.

[canucksartech]

Disaster,

I know what you're saying about the lights on the 24V batteries - they do seem to increase too fast during charging, giving you that false impression of quickcharge. On the flip side of the coin, that may be due to the battery technology. How, for 95% of your usage, you have flat and strong battery amperage flowing out, and then your power just cuts out and done. I'm wondering if the part of lithium-ion technology that causes this to happen also leads to the sharp increase with the lights during charging. Sort of that the voltage is there, but the amperage just isn't charged back in yet. Hard to say.

But regarding the runtime, I'm definitely liking what I'm seeing from my dad's 24V set (he is too!). In my opinion, I think it is a fade situation with the monitoring circuit, that they hopefully got resolved, and these batteries are now a 2.0 version, if you will.

Not sure if you bring them in for service what they will do. They might determine that they are working correctly and might not do anything, unless there is a "TSB" or so-to-speak, for the monitoring computer thing inside the battery, to fix this issue.

[canucksartech]

Doubting Tom,


Get the Ridgid 18 Volt Compact Lithium Ion drill/driver (steer clear of the 18 volt ni-cad version).
Keep the 3-piece 24 Volt Lithium Ion cordless set (or if you can find the 4-piece version still in your neck-of-the-woods).
Sell the 24 volt hammerdrill (unless you feel that you will be doing at least 20% of your work with masonry/cement/brick).
Use the money from the hammerdrill sale, and go and buy yourself a MaxSelect Impact driver.
Add MaxSelect tools as needed. (circular saw, jigsaw)You will thank us later.

The benefits of having 2 voltages of batteries to use with your tools are huge - definitely a huge help with cutting tools, such as the recip, and the circular saw. Also, having 4 batteries is always better than having 2 (even if there is a mild slow-drain issue still, these batteries charge in about 1/2 an hour - with 4 batteries, tons of time to drain what you got, while charging one of them). And lastly, quit agonizing over if you should go with the 2.5 Ah Max battery set. The pros/cons of lithium-ion now hugely outweigh those of Ni-Cad. If you were to use the two different versions of the 18volt drills side-by-side for a day long project, you would easily chose the lithium one. Both the 18 volt lithium-ion and the 24 volt lithium-ion batteries are better rated than the 18 volt ni-cads (2.9ah, 3.0ah, and 2.5ah, respectively). And for the price difference that you are quoting, it is an easy choice. Many make this choice, even without the sales, and with their choice being the lithium-ion version, even with a normally double-the-cost price.

You will thank us later.

[Disaster]

Disaster,

Not sure if you bring them in for service what they will do. They might determine that they are working correctly and might not do anything, unless there is a "TSB" or so-to-speak, for the monitoring computer thing inside the battery, to fix this issue.

Yeah, that is my concern. I'm not sure if they would consider the fast drain a "defect" even if they did improve it.

I just checked my batteries and one was at 3 bars and the other at 4. If I recall, they were charged 3 or 4 weeks ago.

[Disaster]

Sell the 24 volt hammerdrill (unless you feel that you will be doing at least 20% of your work with masonry/cement/brick).

I'm actually doing this with my MaxHC batteries which are unused. If the 18 volt lithium batteries pan out I'll sell the Max2.5's as well.

There is a thriving business on Ebay for buying and selling individual pieces from tool sets. As long as manufacturers bundle tools at great prices, or worse, don't offer some tools except in sets, there will continue to be a thriving business on Ebay.

[doubtingtom]

..... was told this morning (telephone) that the early 24v batts did indeed have some notable issues and that they have been greatly improved with current versions. This is not filled with details/facts, but tends to relieve some of my concerns which were pointed out earlier here.

Tom B

[doubtingtom]

OK ... 'Beam me up Scotty' .... I've slipped down again.

Very consistent with the earlier comment about hammer and non-hammer 'quality' drills ..... a Milwaukee Tool person noted today that there is only a few ounces difference between these two tools (hammer or non-). The typical bare tool weight is over 4 lbs. The inference (to me) is that the newer 'compact' drills, weighing notably less, are simply not built as 'heavy-duty' as the traditional 'pro' versions.

If this is a well-accepted conclusion, then I can ignore the 'hammer' function and decide solely on the issues of tool weight and battery weight. I agree that driving curtain rod screws with a 7lb drill seems absurd but I need to balance that with the number of situations in which a lighter version will come up short in terms of torque or numbers of tough tasks. With Ridgid tools, it now boils down to the 'paired' scenario <hammer & 24v L-I> vs <compact & 18v L-I>. Perhaps I missed this message in earlier posts, but it seems clear now. It becomes a blk&wht 2lb decision (tool +batt) unless I can step up and acquire both 18v & 24v kits. For my home job needs this is unlikely. Staying with MaxSelect offerings seems smart given the current family of tools. Things can improve (by ~1 lb) if 18v L-I batts become cheaper, available separately, and chargeable on the 24v charger. Is that asking too much? :D

Tom B

[Disaster]

Very consistent with the earlier comment about hammer and non-hammer 'quality' drills ..... a Milwaukee Tool person noted today that there is only a few ounces difference between these two tools (hammer or non-). The typical bare tool weight is over 4 lbs. The inference (to me) is that the newer 'compact' drills, weighing notably less, are simply not built as 'heavy-duty' as the traditional 'pro' versions.

I think that is reasonable except I'd add that hammerdrills are generally only put on the heavier duty models...the ones that weigh quite a bit to begin with.

I like your 4lb number. In my experience 4 to 4 and 1/2 pounds is about as light as you can go before you start sacrificing durability for weight. There are a lot of nice drills in this category. The Ridgid 18v and 24v hammerdrill are however, very heavy compared to their equally durable competitors. They give up a pound to a pound and a half. The Ridgid 18 volt lithium is much closer and I doubt it is much less durable than the competitors.

A really nice and inexpensive lightweight Lithium drill is the Black and Decker SC1400. I paid about $70 bucks for it with a 10% off coupon at HD. It weighs 2 and a half pounds. This is the drill I use for the light jobs (like curtain rods) when I don't want to take the larger drills out. The weight makes it a joy to use, yet it still has the torque of an many 18 volt drills.

You may find that you end up using this cheap drill for 90% of the jobs around the house.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41dxaq7I7OL._SS400_.jpg

[doubtingtom]

I think that is reasonable except I'd add that hammerdrills are generally only put on the heavier duty models...the ones that weigh quite a bit to begin with.
I like your 4lb number. In my experience 4 to 4 and 1/2 pounds is about as light as you can go before you start sacrificing durability for weight. <edit> ......... The Ridgid 18 volt lithium is much closer and I doubt it is much less durable than the competitors.

A really nice and inexpensive lightweight Lithium drill is the Black and Decker SC1400. <edit> ...... The weight makes it a joy to use, yet it still has the torque of an many 18 volt drills.

You may find that you end up using this cheap drill for 90% of the jobs around the house.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41dxaq7I7OL._SS400_.jpg

Methinks you are quite correct! If I go with the Ridgid 18v L-I, then it becomes my 'go to' tool. If I grab the dang nice 24v kit deal, then this B-D looks like a terrific companion.

Regards,
Tom B

[doubtingtom]

I had finally fine tuned my purchase decision and chose to go with the 18v L-I Drill. It's not MaxSelect, but the other tools will work fine with the 18v batts.

NEW INFO ! Ridgid Tech Support just (10/1) advised to my e-Box that 18v L-I batts are 1.5 AHr! Not earthshaking, but definitely another point to consider viz-a-viz the 24v kit.

Then I saw the new Ridgid offer ...... if I buy the R931 (24v L-U kit) I was also leaning toward, I get a 14.4v Impact Driver & batts freeI I guess this defines pro______ion .... it's all about the $$$. I not only save an addiitional $9. worth of 10% new acct discount, $30. on the recip saw, AND NOW ..... $149. on the Impact Driver ..... almost $200.!!!

I know my mind will turn that extra '2lbs' of Hammer Drill & 24v batt into something like '10lbs' every time I pick it up to do something mundane ..... all to have gotten some more $$ worth of stuff. Disgusting ... :p

Tom B

[Disaster]

NEW INFO ! Ridgid Tech Support just (10/1) advised to my e-Box that 18v L-I batts are 1.5 AHr! Not earthshaking, but definitely another point to consider viz-a-viz the 24v kit.


Actually, that is HUGE and totally counter to the information Ridgid gave out before.

See posting by "RidgidUser":

http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11896&page=5

"I wanted to find out what the Ah rating was, and it didn't say anywhere on the box, or even on the battery anywhere, let alone in the manual. So the guys at the contractor's desk started calling Ridgid Tech Support, and they found out that it is indeed 2.9 Ah. Then I saw a listing on eBay this morning - same thing, 2.9 Ah. So I just called Ridgid three separate times (just to make sure), and each time I was informed of the same number - 2.9 Ah."

That will be a major disappointment. Ryobi's new batteries are better than that...and considerably cheaper!!!!

[Frankiarmz]

I just checked the Ryobi site and their 18 volt Lithium Ion battery is 2.4AH. I believe Ridgid's Lithium Ion is 2.9AH as you stated, so Ridgid has Ryobi beat. Don't know why they all keep this such a guarded secret? I've used Ryobi cordless around the house for years and they were okay, always had trouble with the batteries. I'm sure the new batteries will be a major improvement, but last year I purchased the Ridgid 18volt kit and the strength and quality of the Ridgid over Ryobi is very obvious. Ridgid all the way for my money.:D

[doubtingtom]

I called Ridgid tech support to follow-up on the e-Box message. That person also confirmed the 1.5AHr number. If you look at Makita's 3 AHr batts and their lower cost (B&W) L-I batts, it seems pretty clear that Ridgid's 18v L-I are comparable to the smaller Makita product (1.6 AHr). The reason I probed this more thoroughly was that the 'physics' did not seem to bear out the notable strength for such a small physical size and weight. The Tech Support person today noted an original plan to go to 3 AHr but that the final decision was to provide lower weight. Makita stated today that they are also responding to market demand for lighter weight and that should result in more 14.4v offerings.

None-the-less, I opted for the 24v kit since the Ridgid offer of a free 14.v Impact Driver was just to good to ignore. The kit is now ready to use and I will be mailing the offer paperwork in tomorrow. ... Man! ... that Hammer drill is definitely stoutwith the 24v 'supercell' attached.

Perhaps the final chapter on this (18v L-I battery specs) is not yet written, but I will be most surprised if the 1.5 AHr rating does not hold up.

Tom B

[Frankiarmz]

We are getting some wrong information somewhere. The Ridgid 18 volt Lithium Ion battery is 2.9 AH not 1.4. Got that number from several people on this site and the Ridgid Tech line. Please call again, I 'm pretty sure my number is correct. :confused:

[Disaster]

I called Ridgid tech support to follow-up on the e-Box message. That person also confirmed the 1.5AHr number. If you look at Makita's 3 AHr batts and their lower cost (B&W) L-I batts, it seems pretty clear that Ridgid's 18v L-I are comparable to the smaller Makita product (1.6 AHr). The reason I probed this more thoroughly was that the 'physics' did not seem to bear out the notable strength for such a small physical size and weight. The Tech Support person today noted an original plan to go to 3 AHr but that the final decision was to provide lower weight.

I looked at the batteries again...specifically the weight, and sadly, I'm inclined to agree with you. Nice investigative work, by the way.

This is unfortunate because some people, like myself, made the purchase decision based on the information provided by Ridgid that the batteries were 2.9Ah and therefore a nice upgrade to our Max2.5Ah ones. The batteries only being half that makes the kit much less of a value. I wouldn't have bought it.

Knowing that the Ridgid battery is no better than the Makita, I'd be inclined instead to either buy the Makita drill which is only $20 more and lighter. Also, Makita is a little better known and commands better resale. Better still, the new kit, Makita is offering, with an impact driver for $270 which is a better value than the Ridgid drill. Then there is the Hitachi 18 volt drill with 1.5Ah batteries that Lowes sells for the same price. Like Makita, Hitachi has a good reputation and in my experience, better resale value than Ridgid.

I hope Ridgid will eventually come out with 18 volt Lithium batteries that aren't of the compact variety. They could still be 3Ah and be considerably lighter than the bricklike Max2.5's. Plus, they would have all the other advantages of Lithium Ion. Those are the ones I want.

Now I've got to see if I can find my receipt so I can return the $179 kit.

[Disaster]

I just did some comparisons of Ridgid's 18 volt "compact" drill vs. some competitors.

First lets look at weight.

Ridgid 18 volt compact = 4 lbs. 5 ounces.
Panasonic 14.4 volt = 3 lbs. 10 ounces.
Makita 18 volt compact = 3lbs. 9 ounces.
Hitachi 18 volt compact = 3 lbs 11 ounces.

Battery total power = Voltage x Ah

Ridgid, Makita and Hitachi = 27
Panasonic = 43

Max. Torque in.lb

Ridgid = 455
Makita = 450 (there have been reviews that say this number is optimistic)
Panasonic = 390
Hitachi = 374

Size - Length from chuck tip to back of motor

Panasonic = 8"
Ridgid = 9 3/4"
Makita = 8"
Hitachi = 9"** **Very approximate...need to recheck.

Features

Ridgid: worklight and bit holder
Makita: worklight
Panasonic: worklight and belt hook
Hitachi: belt hook and bit holder

Price, alone and in kit with impact
Ridgid: $180
Makita: $200, $270
Hitachi: $180
Panasonic: $270, $360

I bought the Panasonic kit. At the time, for me, it was the best compromise of weight, size, runtime and durability. I probably would have bought the Makita kit, if it had been available at the time.

Bottom line: The Ridgid compact drill is not that compact. Nor is it an great value compared to the competitive offerings...especially compared to the Makita kit that includes an impact driver.

[doubtingtom]

I looked at the batteries again...specifically the weight, and sadly, I'm inclined to agree with you. Nice investigative work, by the way. <edit> ..........

Knowing that the Ridgid battery is no better than the Makita, I'd be inclined instead to either buy the Makita drill which is only $20 more and lighter <and notably shorter>. Also, Makita is a little better known <proprietary motors, machined gears> and commands better resale. Better still, the new kit, Makita is offering, .............................

Now I've got to see if I can find my receipt so I can return the $179 kit.

I will continue to pursue this AHr issue and try to push it up the line some just to make absolutely sure of the ratings. (I still believe the 1.5AHr number, however). Ridgid's Lifetime Service is still a major issue with me and may keep me 'in the fold' in spite of some preferred competitive alternatives.

Regards,
Tom B

[Frankiarmz]

I agree with Disaster, and after another conversation with Ridgid Tech Support they are now:mad: saying the AH rating is 1.5! I did my best to tell the tech (Teresa) that 1.5AH is worthless to most of the people using these tools. I want that 3.0 and if Ryobi can make a 2.4 then Ridgid can offer a 3.0. I would pay the price and would not mind if it was the same size as my 2.5 nicads. I hate making the effort to go to the people who should know the right answers and end up being misinformed. Teresa said they were already getting negative feedback and I urge all of you who want a better battery from Ridgid to please call them and tell them. Thank you.:mad:

[Disaster]

I agree with Disaster, and after another conversation with Ridgid Tech Support they are now:mad: saying the AH rating is 1.5! I did my best to tell the tech (Teresa) that 1.5AH is worthless to most of the people using these tools. I want that 3.0 and if Ryobi can make a 2.4 then Ridgid can offer a 3.0. I would pay the price and would not mind if it was the same size as my 2.5 nicads. I hate making the effort to go to the people who should know the right answers and end up being misinformed. Teresa said they were already getting negative feedback and I urge all of you who want a better battery from Ridgid to please call them and tell them. Thank you.:mad:

I wouldn't say worthless....but worth less. ;-)

Very frustrating if you bought this set based on information from the information Ridgid previously gave.

I imagine I'm not the only one who bought this set to get Lithium Ion batteries for their existing Ridgid 18 volt tool tools. Part of the motivation was the higher power of the batteries compared to the Max2.5's.

At 3Ah's, they were a good value. At half that power, not so much.

[doubtingtom]

I posted this also on the related 18v tool thread. This response just received from Ridgid Tech Support after this morning's inquiry.

"That is correct, according to the product manager, the 18V Lithium Ion batteries have 1.5 Ah cells."

I am now going outside to work on my new deck and see if I can lift the new 24v Hammer Drill this morning. If not, the endless search will begin again ....:eek:

Tom B

[Velosapien]

Just curios, does anyone know the exact weight of the ridgid 18v lithium ion packs? That could give some clue as to the cell count and AH rating.

[roadrashray]

I had always assumed the 3AH claims were incorrect because my 18V LI batteries for the compact drill are the same size as the 1.5 Makita and Hitachi. After using the Ridgid compact 18V LI drill on the job for several weeks I am totaly satisfied. The drill has nice balance, power, and for normal use on general housing rehab jobs the battery life is totaly acceptable. Sometimes we get too myopic on the specs. In the real work world I have found this to be a very good tool. If I'm going to do a deck job where I'm running 3" coated screws all day I will probably reach for my Ridgid 24V LI hammerdrill or the Maxselect impact tool.I can choose to use the 18 or 24 V LI battery with it.
One further thought. I purchased the 24V LI set for the primary reason of having the flexibility of 24V LI power for the recip and circ saws and the 18V LI drill for the light weight of it and the choice of batteries to use in my Maxselect Impact Tool, Jig saw and others as I add them. Compared to complete sets of tools of other brands I still believe my investment in Ridgid is on balance very good. The last time I did the numbers I would have to spend more money for an equivalent set of Makita 18V LI tools and wouldn't have as good performance for the recip saw and circ saw as the Ridgid 24V LI. The Dewalt 36V LI is to expensive to consider and for less investment I also have the lightweight 18V LI batteries to use on the drill and Maxselect tools. I believe the last time I looked the DeWalt 36V LI circ and recip set was $799.00. I now have significant experiance using all these tools and they are working very well in the "real world" of the job site.

[Disaster]

Just curios, does anyone know the exact weight of the ridgid 18v lithium ion packs? That could give some clue as to the cell count and AH rating.

I posted that in one of the other 5 threads. The 24 volt pack weighed something like 2lbs, 2oz. The 18 volt pack only weighs 1lb 1oz. For another comparison, the Panasonic 14.4 volt 3Ah pack weighs 1lb 3oz.

[doubtingtom]

I posted that in one of the other 5 threads. The 24 volt pack weighed something like 2lbs, 2oz. The 18 volt pack only weighs 1lb 1oz. For another comparison, the Panasonic 14.4 volt 3Ah pack weighs 1lb 3oz.

I got consistent results for both of these batt weights. 24v L-I __ 2# 4oz,
18v L-I __ 1# 1oz. Interestingly enough (we can easily get spoiled) I weighed the 18v NiCad (for same drill body) at 1# 15 1/2 oz. I probably need to 'get real' and enjoy the extra ooommpphh of the 24v for only holding 4.5 oz more than you guys have been doing for many years with the NiCads. :D

Tom B

[Disaster]

I got consistent results for both of these batt weights. 24v L-I __ 2# 4oz,
18v L-I __ 1# 1oz. Interestingly enough (we can easily get spoiled) I weighed the 18v NiCad (for same drill body) at 1# 15 1/2 oz. I probably need to 'get real' and enjoy the extra ooommpphh of the 24v for only holding 4.5 oz more than you guys have been doing for many years with the NiCads. :D

Tom B

That must not have been a MaxHC or Max2.5, which actually weigh more than the 24 volt batteries, at 2 lbs 6.5 ounces and 2 lbs 8 ounces, respectively.

Now that was a TRUE upgrade. Lighter weight and more power.

[Disaster]

I had always assumed the 2.9AH claims were incorrect because my 18V LI batteries for the compact drill are the same size as the 1.5 Makita and Hitachi. After using the Ridgid compact 18V LI drill on the job for several weeks I am totaly satisfied. The drill has nice balance, power, and for normal use on general housing rehab jobs the battery life is totaly acceptable. Sometimes we get to myopic on the specs. In the real work world I have found this to be a very good tool. If I'm going to do a deck job where I'm running 3" coated screws all day I will probably reach for my Ridgid 24V LI hammerdrill or the Maxselect impact tool.I can choose to use the 18 or 24 V LI battery with it.
One further thought. I purchased the 24V LI set for the primary reason of having the flexibility of 24V LI power for the recip and circ saws and the 18V LI drill for the light weight of it and the choice of batteries to use in my Maxselect Impact Tool, Jig saw and others as I add them. Compared to complete sets of tools of other brands I still believe my investment in Ridgid is on balance very good. The last time I did the numbers I would have to spend more money for an equivalent set of Makita 18V LI tools and wouldn't have as good performance for the recip saw and circ saw as the Ridgid 24V LI. The Dewalt 36V LI is to expensive to consider and for less investment I also have the lightweight 18V LI batteries to use on the drill and Maxselect tools. I believe the last time I looked the DeWalt 36V LI circ and recip set was $799.00. I now have significant experiance using all these tools and they are working very well in the "real world" of the job site.

If you were looking for a lighter weight tool to add to your Ridgid collection, and are happy with the current 18 volt NiCds...or have and are happy with the 24 volt set it might not be such a big deal.

If, on the other hand, you were looking at this set as a way to upgrade your 18 volt batteries to Lithium Ion, you would be decidingly less enthusiastic...especially if you were given information that lead you to believe these batteries were an upgrade.

I for one, would be more than willing to live with a few more ounces of battery weight for more power. They could and should make up for that battery weight by taking weight out of the porky drill.

DeWalt, Makita, Hitachi, Panasonic...heck pretty much everyone else knows how to make lighter tools. Ridgid needs to review what those guys are doing.

I agree with you that it can be nice to have the 24 volt tool power. However, I am more inclined to use a lighter tool, when all that power isn't necessary....mostly for drill and impact applications. The Ridgid 18 volt and 24 volt drills are the heaviest in their class. Unfortunately, they continued this tradition with their "compact" drill.

[Velosapien]

The Makita 3.0ah batteries weigh about 1.6 lbs and they have two 18v 1.5ah rows wired in parallel. Their 1.5 ah compacts weigh about 1.1 lbs and do away with one of the rows. 1 lbs 1z puts definately puts the Ridgid 18v batteries at about 1.5ah. For 3.0h they would need more cells. No way they can make anything close to a 3.0ah battery at that weight.

[Frankiarmz]

Ridgid tech support said the AH on the new 18 volt Lithium Ion battery is in fact 1.5. Now, how do we get Ridgid to market a 3.0 or better yet 3.5 AH in place of this weak embarassment? Did they think by omitting this information on the packaging people would not find out? What kind of research and developing team do they have? I think most people who buy these tools want the most bang for their buck and more AH's equal longer run times. I would really appreciate a 18 volt lithium ion battery from Ridgid that compliments my tools and 1.5AH is a lousy joke. Come on, Ryobi can make and market a 2.4AH lithium, you think Ridgid had no clue this was going to be a problem? I think if the folks at Ridgid want to make more sales and keep more loyal customers, they'd better double that AH to at least 3.0 and get it in the stores real quick.:mad:

[roadrashray]

I had always assumed the 3AH claims were incorrect because my 18V LI batteries for the compact drill are the same size as the 1.5 Makita and Hitachi. After using the Ridgid compact 18V LI drill on the job for several weeks I am totaly satisfied. The drill has nice balance, power, and for normal use on general housing rehab jobs the battery life is totaly acceptable. Sometimes we get too myopic on the specs. In the real work world I have found this to be a very good tool. If I'm going to do a deck job where I'm running 3" coated screws all day I will probably reach for my Ridgid 24V LI hammerdrill or the Maxselect impact tool.I can choose to use the 18 or 24 V LI battery with it.
One further thought. I purchased the 24V LI set for the primary reason of having the flexibility of 24V LI power for the recip and circ saws and the 18V LI drill for the light weight of it and the choice of batteries to use in my Maxselect Impact Tool, Jig saw and others as I add them. Compared to complete sets of tools of other brands I still believe my investment in Ridgid is on balance very good. The last time I did the numbers I would have to spend more money for an equivalent set of Makita 18V LI tools and wouldn't have as good performance for the recip saw and circ saw as the Ridgid 24V LI. The Dewalt 36V LI is to expensive to consider and for less investment I also have the lightweight 18V LI batteries to use on the drill and Maxselect tools. I believe the last time I looked the DeWalt 36V LI circ and recip set was $799.00. I now have significant experiance using all these tools and they are working very well in the "real world" of the job site.

If you were looking for a lighter weight tool to add to your Ridgid collection, and are happy with the current 18 volt LIs...or have and are happy with the 24 volt set it might not be such a big deal.

If, on the other hand, you were looking at this set as a way to upgrade your 18 volt batteries to Lithium Ion, you would be decidingly less enthusiastic...especially if you were given information that lead you to believe these batteries were an upgrade.

I for one, would be more than willing to live with a few more ounces of battery weight for more power. They could and should make up for that battery weight by taking weight out of the porky drill.

DeWalt, Makita, Hitachi, Panasonic...heck pretty much everyone else knows how to make lighter tools. Ridgid needs to review what those guys are doing.

I agree with you that it can be nice to have the 24 volt tool power. However, I am more inclined to use a lighter tool, when all that power isn't necessary....mostly for drill and impact applications. The Ridgid 18 volt and 24 volt drills are the heaviest in their class. Unfortunately, they continued this tradition with their "compact" drill.

Disaster.....If you or anyone else purchased the Ridgid 18V LI batteries expecting to get a 3Ah battery you have a right to be dissapointed by receiving a 1.5Ah. I had seen the 3Amp 18V LI on the box when I purchased the Maxselect Impact tool. I was surprised and puzzled when I purchased the Ridgid 18V LI compact drill and found no reference to battery capacity anywhere on the box, battery or literature. As previously stated I assumed it was a 1.5Ah as it was virtually the same size as the 1.5 Makita and Hitachi batteries. After using the drill I found it to be very job site usable and have been very happy with it. The drill is powerful, light, well balanced has very good run time with the 1.5Ah battery. I would suggest anyone who was mislead by previous Ridigid literature or other claims of a 3Ah 18V LI battery and is not happy should return them to Home Depot for a full refund. With evidence of Ridgid misleading promotion printed on the ouside of the Maxselect Impact tool they should refund your money.
Now with regard to the weight comparison of the Ridgid 18V LI Compact drill with 18 volt drills from other manufacturers I believe over all the Ridgid drill compares very favorably. I went to a few sites and obtained the following. I tried to find the lightest 18V drill for each mfgr. Some are not LI because they aren't available yet.
Panasonic 18V 5.7lbs
Dewalt 18V 5.2lbs
Bosch 18V 5.7lbs
Milwaukee 18V 6.1lbs
Porter Cable 19.2V 5.25lbs
Hitachi 18V 4.6lbs
Ridgid 18V 4.29lbs
Makita 18V 3.5lbs
I am a little dubious about the published weight for the Makita as their web site states (net weight-3.5lbs) and goes on to describe the drill as available with 1.5Ah or 3Ah batteries. Is the 3.5lbs with or without battteries? I'm confident someone will provide the answer very quickly. Any way at 4.29lbs (with battery on our local USPS electronic scale)I would hardly describe the Ridgid 18V LI compact drill as "porky". A quick review of the above list demonstrates the weight of the 18V Ridgid is at the low end of 18V drill weights. I have no idea how durable or usable the other drills are. There have been a few posts on this site complaining about the Makita compact drill. I have no opinion on that stuff. Somebody will always have trouble with tools. I will repeat that I have found the Ridgid 18V LI compact drill to be a powerful, light, well balanced, cost effective very good jobsite tool......and the bonus is with the Lifetime Service Agreement those expensive little LI batteries are free when they go kapoot.

[Velosapien]

I verified my makita compact as 3.5 lbs exactly with the 1.5ah batteries. It's just under 4lbs with the 3.0ah.

[roadrashray]

I verified my makita compact as 3.5 lbs exactly with the 1.5ah batteries. It's just under 4lbs with the 3.0ah.
Velo....Thanks. I knew it wouldn't take long.
Yep....that's a light one. How long have you had it, what do you use it for and how do you like it?
Ray

[Velosapien]

Got mine the week they came out, must be almost a year maybe. I use it mainly for woodworking and driving smaller stuff where the impact driver is a little too much. For everything else I use a Dewalt 36v. I'm very happy with how its worked. I actually can't imagine using another drill for those tasks anymore. Its so light and handy it's a real pleasure to use.

[roadrashray]

Got mine the week they came out, must be almost a year maybe. I use it mainly for woodworking and driving smaller stuff where the impact driver is a little too much. For everything else I use a Dewalt 36v. I'm very happy with how its worked. I actually can't imagine using another drill for those tasks anymore. Its so light and handy it's a real pleasure to use.

Yes....When I hefted the Makita compact at Home Depot it felt perfect in my hand. By that time I had the Ridgid 24V set and a couple Maxselect tools so I could only hope that the then pending Ridgid 18V LI compact was close. It certainly does not quite get there in comparison to the Makita compact, however as you noticed I think its a pretty good drill.
Not to steal a thread but do you have the DeWalt 36V circ and recip saws and how do you like them?

[Velosapien]

I don't have the 36v saw yet but others here have it and they seem to be very impressed by its performance. Reviews also point to it being the most powerful cordless circular saw out there. I got the Drill and recip saw combo which was selling for $479 at HD and soon after dropped to $399. Not bad considering the Ridgid 24v kit sells for only $20 less and only includes the extra flashlight. I also bought the 36v jigsaw as a bare tool. I'm very impressed with them to say the least. They kept the same size footprint as the 18v tools with loads more power. The recip saw and jigsaw easily match the performance of their corded counterparts. The drill is pretty hefty. It's just under 7 lbs but they kept to their typical design so it's well balanced which makes the weight very managable. Their T handle drill designs have been considered very good in that regard. The only thing I really wish they had changed in the drill is the 3rd high gear which is pretty much exclusively for the hammerdrill mode. They dropped to a pretty low 1600rpm when they have traditionally used 2000rpm on the 18v models. I wish they had gone with something like an ultra fast 2500rpm to increase the blow per minute rate like the corded models. I have a feeling that would not reflect well in the torque ratings which are ever so important for marketing even though the hammerdrill mode requires very little torque and is better suited with an extremely fast speed. Either that or they want to avoid people who don't know how to properly select speeds smoking the drill trying to drive a 3" hole saw in high gear. I use it almost exclusively in hammer mode so thats my only real gripe with it.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

That's a good point about the hammerdrill having a relatively slow high RPM. It's totally fine for wood drilling, 1600RPM is more than enough for spade and twist bits and so on. But a good corded hammerdrill almost always goes way over 2000RPM and hits at 35,000BPM plus. Some are even way higher than that. I too am surprised in their quest for corded performance that they did not do that. But you can't have everything. My feeling is that they truly aimed that drill for big wood bits. In their promo material notice in fact they barely emphasize the hammerdrilling performance. In fact I think it's non-existent in the comparisons.

That said, it's geared at 400RPM in low range which makes it perfect for big bits like augers and self feeds which it handles without a problem. The drill power is more subtle that the other tools because most typical drilling tasks don't take a high amount of power. But you'll notice that in drilling big that it barely slows down or strains the way an 18V does. Plus it has the endurance to do things like 20 self feed holes at 2 9/16" one after the other without tiring or slowing down. The heat generated by the motor is far less than an 18V and the battery really never gets hot. Not long ago I mixed some concrete with it in a bucket. This is the kind of job you'd throw at a big 1/2" D handle normally.

In my opinion, the 36V circular is the "star" of the 4-tool kit. It's probably the most dramatic improvement in that it readily shows its stuff and it's very obvious from the first cut you make. Just the fact that they upped the blade to 7 1/4" and put such a high power behind it is a major achievement. There are few cordless saws out there that have a 7 1/4" blade and even fewer that have the power to turn it like a corded unit.

On the down side though, the blade guard sucks big time (gets hung up very easily and frequently stops the saw from moving) and the tool-less blade change is a nice idea on paper, but please provide a hex wrench next time.

[Velosapien]

That's a good point about the hammerdrill having a relatively slow high RPM. It's totally fine for wood drilling, 1600RPM is more than enough for spade and twist bits and so on. But a good corded hammerdrill almost always goes way over 2000RPM and hits at 35,000BPM plus. Some are even way higher than that. I too am surprised in their quest for corded performance that they did not do that. But you can't have everything. My feeling is that they truly aimed that drill for big wood bits. In their promo material notice in fact they barely emphasize the hammerdrilling performance. In fact I think it's non-existent in the comparisons.



I also have the DW520 which is their top end corded hammerdrill. It does 2700rpm and something like 50,000 bpm. Let me tell you that thing can really rip through concrete. The 36v drill easily delivers as much power. They are both rated at 750w. One thing I noticed is the hammer ring ratchet on the 36v is more pronounced than on the 18v models. It definately slams harder than the 18v drills so it still drills faster even though it turns slower. The bummer is the 36v easily has the cojones to power through at a much higher speed. For my needs I wouldn't even mind for them to completely drop the high torque modes and even the driving clutch. Just make a pure 36v hammerdrill model with only high speed gears. All construction here is concrete all around so hammerdrills are the only way to go. There still is need for large wood boaring bits every now and then its fairly rare. Most of the time the high torque modes are as useful as an air conditioner is to an eskimo. I really want to try the 36v roto hammer since that is by far the tool I most frequently use. I'm getting about 4 months out of the brushes on my corded one. The cordless would be sweet but at $799 for the kit and almost $600 for the bare tool, if I can find it, I'm not sure it's a practical investment.

[Disaster]

Now with regard to the weight comparison of the Ridgid 18V LI Compact drill with 18 volt drills from other manufacturers I believe over all the Ridgid drill compares very favorably. I went to a few sites and obtained the following. I tried to find the lightest 18V drill for each mfgr. Some are not LI because they aren't available yet.
Panasonic 18V 5.7lbs
Dewalt 18V 5.2lbs
Bosch 18V 5.7lbs
Milwaukee 18V 6.1lbs
Porter Cable 19.2V 5.25lbs
Hitachi 18V 4.6lbs
Ridgid 18V 4.29lbs
Makita 18V 3.5lbs
...Any way at 4.29lbs (with battery on our local USPS electronic scale)I would hardly describe the Ridgid 18V LI compact drill as "porky". A quick review of the above list demonstrates the weight of the 18V Ridgid is at the low end of 18V drill weights.

Your list demonstrates how most standard (not compact) drills from competitors are lighter than Ridgid's 7 and 1/2 pound 18 volt drill.

There aren't a lot of compact, lightweight 18 volt drills out there now to compare, but two are the Makita and Hitachi which weigh 3.5lbs and 3.7lbs respectively, with 1.5Ah batteries.

If you look at the size, the Ridgid "compact" drill isn't very small either.

I do agree it is much nicer to lug around than their "regular" 18 volt drill and a nice addition for someone who wants to stick to orange.

[Woussko]

When talking about hammer drills, what size holes are you wanting to drill in concrete? The larger diameter bits require slower rotation speeds and harder hits than smaller diameter. Also long length bits need harder impacts than short length bits. Maybe Dewalt had in mind that users of their 36 Volt hammer drill wanted to drill mostly 3/8 and larger holes.

Here's specs on a Bosch 36 Volt hammer drill. Please note they kept speeds down on this model.
http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tools-detail?H=175982&G=54914&I=73371&T=1


For what it's worth, try looking at specs for corded roto hammers and especially those rated for 1-1/2" and larger. Slow rotation and slower but much harder strikes. If you could find a 1/4" bit for one of them it would be hard to keep it from getting busted real fast.

[canucksartech]

Josh / ProBrand ???

Like others here have said, there's a huge letdown here if we are NOW being told that the 18 volt lithium-ion batteries are only 1.5 Ah. There's quite a few of us who got one right at the end of June, after they were released for Father's Day. And, most of us based our purchasing decision on the Ah rating. And, at that time, I myself was told by multiple sources (Ridgid customer service x 3 calls, Ridgid tech support x 2 calls, in-store Ridgid rep x 1, store associates x quite-a-few-but-we-know-they-are-usually-wrong) that these batteries were 2.9 Ah. And I, like others, presumed this to be correct due to the reference to 18 volt 3.0 Ah lithium-ion batteries on the boxes of various MaxSelect tools (even if the picture looked different - we could understand a design styling change). Also, based on my usage, I felt like this 2.9 Ah number was correct - I noticed a bit of a better performance when compared to my previous standard 18 volt drill, with the standard 1.4 Ah ni-cads (or whatever they were), plus I've done some side-by-side testing with a 2.5 MaxAh NiCad, and felt the lithium-ion did better, therefore warranting the 2.9 Ah rating I was being told of. But, if these are in fact only 1.5 Ah, and I therefore missing out more on the power of 2.9 Ah, I would feel very jaded and disappointed to know that I'm not getting the power/performance I should have been.

But now we are being told they might only be 1.5 Ah. Over 3 months since they were released. This is a huuuuuggee letdown. We're talking about multiple internal sources from Ridgid passing on incorrect information previously, if it is true that these are in fact only 1.5 Ah - whether it is being passed along fraudulently or unintentionally is a whole different matter altogether!

I for one (and I'm guessing others as well, based on posts on this forum) would like some real answers. We've talked about this for months now. And for months Ridgid has not given us a real answer to this on paper, or bothered to at least update and reflect this info on the product listing on the Ridgid webpage. Basically...WTF Ridgid?!!?!!

It's been 3 months since these were released - can we get a real answer on this??????? :confused:

[Velosapien]

When talking about hammer drills, what size holes are you wanting to drill in concrete? The larger diameter bits require slower rotation speeds and harder hits than smaller diameter. Also long length bits need harder impacts than short length bits. Maybe Dewalt had in mind that users of their 36 Volt hammer drill wanted to drill mostly 3/8 and larger holes.


Hammerdrill speed actually doesn't have as much to do with optimal bit speed as it does with the tool thats doing the drilling. In the case of a hammerdrill the impact energy is created by a counter rotating ratchet ring which all it really does is pulse the bit. The impact energy is very small so it needs to turn as fast as possible to increse the blow rate. Thats why you'll see the corded models having incredibly high rpm rates. That has always been the logic behind Dewalt drills having a 3rd high gear. Most good drills are rated up to 1/2" bits but that's highly optimistic. Even the best are practical for holes of mostly up to about 5/16" unless its softer material. The rotary hammer will create the impact energy from a pneumatic piston that can deliver a massive amount of blast energy independantly of the rotation. Bit rotation speed becomes less important because the rotation action is mainly for extracting the dust and debris through the bit flutes. For example if you're drilling a 1/4" hole with a hammer drill it will be a lot more efficient if it spins the bit faster to increase the bpm while the same bit on a roto hammer can do the same job at very slow rpm. For the most part if you want to make holes into concrete regardless of the size, a roto hammer will always be a lot easier. Problem is they are large and heavy. The impact energy is so hard that when using them for small holes for things like tapcon pilot holes they can tend to wallow them out or slightly oversizing them reducing the grip strength. Hammerdrills leave a cleaner and more precise size hole.

[doubtingtom]

Seeing all the upset comments here over the past few days makes me think that perhaps a simple solution (from Ridgid) could solve the issue for the most part. I really don't feel that the tool itself is badly deficient so perhaps a one-time offering of additional 1.5 AHr L-I batts should be made to existing owners. 1.5 x 2 = 3.0 and I can't believe the slight inconvenience of changing batts would really be a major issue for most users. This solution could be implemented very quickly and easily and would seem to provide the result most owners originally intended. I do not have strong links to Ridgid, but there must be some on this Forum who could intervene and ask about making this solution available.

Would this work to the extent that it would satisfy a number of very unhappy exisiting Ridgid 18v L-I drill users ?? :confused:

Tom B
.

[canucksartech]

Starting a new thread on this battery issue (18 Volt Lithium-Ion batteries - Ah rating situation).....

We'll see about getting some answers hopefully.....

[Sceeter W Wheels]

Intresting, do you mean the 36V drill, depite the lower BPM/RPM can challenge the DW520 on hammerdrilling speed? I've done some 1/2" holes in concrete block and it seemed very effective, but for the amount of hammerdrilling I do, I'm probably not the best person to make the comparison.

There are number of corded replacement possibilities for the 36V line. Now that they have that level of juice, it should open up areas for things like cordless portable miter saws, dedicated hammerdrills like you're saying, right angle drills. You could even make a decent chainsaw as well. I'm not sure where DeWalt is going with it, the line is already pretty versatile, but I guess like any tool company, they cater most to what they think will sell.

I also have the DW520 which is their top end corded hammerdrill. It does 2700rpm and something like 50,000 bpm. Let me tell you that thing can really rip through concrete. The 36v drill easily delivers as much power. They are both rated at 750w. One thing I noticed is the hammer ring ratchet on the 36v is more pronounced than on the 18v models. It definately slams harder than the 18v drills so it still drills faster even though it turns slower. The bummer is the 36v easily has the cojones to power through at a much higher speed. For my needs I wouldn't even mind for them to completely drop the high torque modes and even the driving clutch. Just make a pure 36v hammerdrill model with only high speed gears. All construction here is concrete all around so hammerdrills are the only way to go. There still is need for large wood boaring bits every now and then its fairly rare. Most of the time the high torque modes are as useful as an air conditioner is to an eskimo. I really want to try the 36v roto hammer since that is by far the tool I most frequently use. I'm getting about 4 months out of the brushes on my corded one. The cordless would be sweet but at $799 for the kit and almost $600 for the bare tool, if I can find it, I'm not sure it's a practical investment.

[workerbob]

From what I have seen it would seem that Dewalt is getting rid of the 36V altogether. They always seem to be on clearance and I see no new tools coming out with it.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

Not that I know of. I've seen a couple of stores selling off some of it, but it's still in the Home Depots around here. I have not seen V28 in a long time, which is too bad. They had it for a while, but it seemed to disappear. Don't know why because V28 is a nice tool set.

[Velosapien]

Intresting, do you mean the 36V drill, depite the lower BPM/RPM can challenge the DW520 on hammerdrilling speed? I've done some 1/2" holes in concrete block and it seemed very effective, but for the amount of hammerdrilling I do, I'm probably not the best person to make the comparison.



It does pretty good but doesn't quite match the DW520. It can outdo the DC925 which runs at 2000rpm but the DC925 can still give it a run for its money in some cases. If the 36v drill could do at least 2500rpm with at 40,000bpm+ then I have no doubt it would at least match the 520. When it comes to drilling in block its usually no big deal. Block is relatively soft and even smaller drills do quite well there. It's the poured stuff, particularly very old well cured concrete that can sometimes even make a roto hammer beg for mercy with bits as small as a 3/16"! I think I'm going to contact Dewalt and suggest they make a dedicated 36v hammerdrill like the DW520.

[Velosapien]

I don't think Dewalt is not getting rid of the 36v group, it's their largest and still as of now only established lithium ion group. They still are releasing new tools. Not so long ago they updated the rotary hammer and release the angle grinder.

I wouldn't use HD as an indicator. Those types of large tools don't tend to sell very well at that type of store. The HD's around here sporadically stock the stuff but small groups like the Makita LXT and V18 as well as all the other major 18v groups are always well stocked. It's what the average consumer that buys there wants to buy.