Installing toilet in cement floor

[bluecon]

I want to install a toilet in a cement floor and need to cut the cement about 3 feet for the toilet piping. What is the best/easiest way to do this?
Is there any sort of toilet that flushes out the back so I wouldn't need to cut the floor? After I go the 3 feet I am in a lower level and close to the piping vent stack.

[garager]

Here you go buddy, this should help you. If its way to expensive, then build a new floor on top of the cement, big enough for you and the commode.

http://www.saniflo.com/index.asp?gclid=CPTQtcKt344CFQdqIgod0iXoNw

[freddy]

bluecon, yes they do make backoutlet toilets. you may need to go to a plumbing supply house to find.:)

[Velosapien]

What's underneath the floor? Is this a ground floor or an upper floor? If it's a ground floor, it's probably just best to rent a chipping hammer or hire someone to cut out the concrete and install the tubing for a standard toilet. I don't know how much of a headache replacing or getting parts for backout toilets might be in the future. For an upper floor you will very likely be forced to just bore straight through and run the pipe externally on the floor underneath. The slab will not be thick enough and breaking 3 feet to fit the pipe will almost certainly involve cutting through a lot or rebar which is a big no no.

[BHD]

Guessing your talking a ground or basement floor,
using a diamond blade in a skill saw would probly be the cheapest route to actually do the cutting. (bought a blade a 7' dry cut blade at home depot for under $35 a few weeks ago)
It would cut about 2" deep but would give you a nice straight line to fill back in with, the segmented blades are more designed for dry cutting, (make sure it is for dry cutting), wear a dust mask and goggles, and if in a living space drape off the area it will be messy and dirty and dusty, I find that putting a shop vacuum in the space helps clear the air some,

OK now you have the perimeter marked, it is time for a trip down to the rental shop, Rent a (bosh) electric jack hammer,

Start in a spot in the center, and then work around in a small circle (8" to a foot) and in it center, going in a 1" or so and then another spot, until you have pulverized area of concrete dig it out,
(don't jsut hammer and hammer in one place until the bull point chisel penetrates the slab and then buries it self as you will have the chisel stuck in the slab),

To break the concrete it will have to have some place to go, (dig out the chunks as you go) then taking about 2" to 3" at a time work around that hole chipping out chunks, if it's very hard you may have to take the bull point chisel and hit a number of places in a row wreaking the slab, and then go back and do them again until it breaks out,
Work out to the perimeter, I like the 3" flat chisel in or at the saw cut and it will break off the rest of the slab below the saw cut usually very nicely.

wear some ear protection and eye protection, and good shoes,

then haul out the chunks of cement and dig and do your pluming and re pour the slab.

Don't forget to return the jack hammer, that day charge can add up in a hurry, :)

[Velosapien]

For a project that small I think a jack hammer might be a bit overkill and potentially difficult to control for someone with no experience with one. Might end up causing more damage than good. A good mid range rotary hammer with chipping function or dedicated demolition hammer will get the job done just fine even it it takes a bit longer. It will give a very high measure of control over where to break or not. Definately get at least a bull point and flat chisel no bigger than maybe about 1" wide. Anything too wide will just cause the impact energy to dissipate along the bigger surface and will only make a lot of noise with little effect on a poured slab. Use the bullnose to loosen up excessively hard parts and as explained, breaking holes in a line. Beware the bullnose offers little control over what breaks. It just cracks everything around. The flat chisel allows for precise control and scooping out chunks. Use it to cut clean lines like the sides or clean off the bottom.

Using a saw with a diamond blade will give a clean line to patch up later and ease up the breaking a bit but beware it will kick up a cloud of dust like you wouldn't believe. You need to cover up the area 100% airtight. Even with a mask indoors the dust will get to intense you'll need to leave the room if not using water on the blade. Take proper precautions or otherwise just skip it, it helps but it's not necessary.

[plumberscrack]

You may need a small pair of bolt cutters (18") for getting the wire buried in the slab out of the way.

[BHD]

If you re read I said to use the 3" to finish up cleaning up along the saw cut ONLY,
Other wise a bull point, or a 1" to break out the slab.
and since my daughter could run that type of jack hammer when she was 13 years old, I would think most any one could run one.

[bluecon]

What's underneath the floor? Is this a ground floor or an upper floor? If it's a ground floor, it's probably just best to rent a chipping hammer or hire someone to cut out the concrete and install the tubing for a standard toilet. I don't know how much of a headache replacing or getting parts for backout toilets might be in the future. For an upper floor you will very likely be forced to just bore straight through and run the pipe externally on the floor underneath. The slab will not be thick enough and breaking 3 feet to fit the pipe will almost certainly involve cutting through a lot or rebar which is a big no no.
It is a 4 level house and the toilet is going on the second floor up from the lowest basement level. The floor is concrete like a regular basement floor and the walls are concrete block. I need to cut out about 3 feet to get thru the concrete to the lowest basement level.

What is the proper slope to put on the pipes?

Thanks for the help to everyone.

[BHD]

What is under the concrete floor, is it on gravel or dirt?

or is it a concrete deck with living space under it, (self supporting deck), AIR ?

[Velosapien]

What's directly underneath where the toilet will go? Is it the basement?

[VASandy]

It is a 4 level house and the toilet is going on the second floor up from the lowest basement level. The floor is concrete like a regular basement floor and the walls are concrete block. I need to cut out about 3 feet to get thru the concrete to the lowest basement level.

What is the proper slope to put on the pipes?

Thanks for the help to everyone.

Someone already pointed out that on an upper-level concrete floor you will have rebar. Cutting rebar is really not a good idea...I'm no engineer but I figure the stuff needs to be continuous to actually do what it's supposed to do!! You may have to get some kind of device to "sound" the floor and find the area where the rebar ISN'T and locate your toilet piping there. A decent commercial toilet should be able to go in the space.

It sounds like you're saying the concrete is 3' thick?!?! Otherwise, I'm not sure why you say you need 3' of concrete cut out. If you're trying to connect to existing plumbing 3' from where the toilet's going, and it's an upper floor concrete floor...then no...I wouldn't do it. Get a professional, at the very least to draw out where to put things and how to run the pipes. Cutting concrete on an upper floor is tricky, dangerous, and could put you in code violation if not done absolutely correctly.

[Velosapien]

Yeah if this is an upper cealing slab, cutting 3' across for a pipe that size is not an option. Residential ceiling slabs are usually not that thick, as little as 5". You will have to cut several bars which is not allowed and will leave a weaked structure. Breaking straight through to run the pipe externally along the lower level ceiling is the only option and if you hit rebar cutting through you should shift the hole location.

[BHD]

I agree with VASandy on this one if it is a self supporting concrete floor, call in a professional.

[bluecon]

The floor is like a regular basement floor.(gravel underneath) There are 2 basement levels in the house.(personally I think it is a stupid house design)

I need to cut 3 feet out since the existing stud and drywall wall is not at the edge of the floor due to the location of the furnace.

I checked out the toilets that flush thru the back at a local plumbing supply house supply and they wanted around $500.

I am going to hire someone to do the work. Thanks for the help.

[plumbdog10]

For a project that small I think a jack hammer might be a bit overkill and potentially difficult to control for someone with no experience with one. Might end up causing more damage than good. A good mid range rotary hammer with chipping function or dedicated demolition hammer will get the job done just fine even it it takes a bit longer. It will give a very high measure of control over where to break or not. Definately get at least a bull point and flat chisel no bigger than maybe about 1" wide. Anything too wide will just cause the impact energy to dissipate along the bigger surface and will only make a lot of noise with little effect on a poured slab. Use the bullnose to loosen up excessively hard parts and as explained, breaking holes in a line. Beware the bullnose offers little control over what breaks. It just cracks everything around. The flat chisel allows for precise control and scooping out chunks. Use it to cut clean lines like the sides or clean off the bottom.

Using a saw with a diamond blade will give a clean line to patch up later and ease up the breaking a bit but beware it will kick up a cloud of dust like you wouldn't believe. You need to cover up the area 100% airtight. Even with a mask indoors the dust will get to intense you'll need to leave the room if not using water on the blade. Take proper precautions or otherwise just skip it, it helps but it's not necessary.

I note that your occupation is "space cadet". Your post shows. A rotohammer? Stick to space walks.

[Velosapien]

Yes, as in a rotohammer with chipping function, like most have, sort of self explanatory. I'm sure if you're not familiar with the tool then a quick search would easily clear that up. I'm a space cadet, because in an open forum where you can put whatever you please as your ocupation, it must give anyone all the credibility in the world, therefore I must really be a space man :rolleyes: