Heavy Duty vs Compact Drills & Drivers __Really struggling

[doubtingtom]

Gentlemen: I know there is no pat or single answer here, but I do not have the experience with all of these tools to sort out the factors that should separate them for my diverse homeowner needs. For lack of a better term I tend to try to place them in 'real' tool class or 'toy' class. That is obviously extreme and general, but I can learn from your experience and thoughts.

My current choices are: Ridgid 24v L-I Hammer Drill & 14.4v NiCad Impact Driver (~$250. but includes MaxSelect Recip Saw), Milwaukee V18 (L-I) Hammer Drill & Impact Driver Kit ($~260.), Makita 18v L-I Compact Drill/Driver & Impact Driver (~$250.), Bosch Litheon Pocket Driver and Impactor (~$250.). These are my available local prices with minor HD local discounts (~10%) applied. I had to equalize the Bosch pair by pricing the Drill/Driver as 'tool only' so it was comparable with only 2 batts & charger.

For me, the Ridgid & Milwaukee are clearly 'real' tools, the Makita pair are sort of in-between and I can't sort out how they will do in the long haul, and the Bosch pair look very attractive but seem pricey given their size and weight.

How would you users with experience rate these choices? Also, try to stand in my shoes ..... early retirement age, healthy & active, can handle the heavier tools of my normal usage periods, but definitely recognize their weight and its effects. I enjoy the 'pro' feel of the 'pro' tools, but do not 'require' it in many (most) of my homeowner tasks. I obviously do not want 'cheap' tools or there are many other possible choices.

If you would eliminate some of these choices, based on your experience, I can benefit from knowing which ones and why. It's Sunday, but I hope some help is out there. I have followed and absorbed the recent Threads re. Ridgid support and have factored it into my decision to keep the Ridgid Kit on my short list.

Best regards,
Tom B

[Frankiarmz]

I just tried to post an answer but it didn't go through, so here goes again. I am a retired homeowner and have used many corded and cordless tools both around the house and when I worked as a Telephone lineman. If you were going to be installing small hardware and things like blinds and shades, then I'd opt for a light compact drill but for your needs the 24 volt Ridgid set is great. I have the 18 volt nicad set and it's been great, the tools are strong and sturdy. The impact driver is a blast to use and it's a time saver for jobs around the house and even on the car. You have to get the knack of all that power so you don't snap the heads off of screws and drivers. The heavy duty drill will probably last you a lifetime and it's always good to have more power when you need it. My only complaint is that Ridgid did not offer a higher amp hour 18 volt lithium, but with the 24 volt set you don't have that problem. I've stirred many 5 gallon buckets of paint and driveway sealer with my drill and it just keeps going. I'm sure there are pros here who have had problems with all their tools Ridgid included, but consider the long hours of use and harsh conditions. My tools get cleaned and put on a shelf when I'm finished with them. For the price and max select options, I think you would be very happy with the Ridgid 24 volt lithium set. Good luck.:D

[cactusman]

I suggest the ridgid 18v tool group with the 18V 2.5Amp batteries
The Ridgid 1/2" hammer/drill will accommodate almost anything a semi-retired homeowner will do. Then the 18v impact driver will take care of fastening tasks with minimal stress on the operator.

The reciprocating saw, 6" circular saw, planer, and jig saw round out a complete set of tools.

Use the dual charger with the cooling fan for best charging results. You should plan to have maybe 6 or 8 batteries. Then you'll never run out of power.

I honestly can't remember when I used my corded Dewalt drill or corded Porter Cable 1/2" hammer drill. I have used the Ridgid 18v tools and find them excellent!

Now if you are a pro and use the tools heavily eight hours a day, then perhaps the ridgid 18v tools may not last. As a weekend warrior I'm certain I'll get many years of reliable service from them.

Cactus Man

[BadgerDave]

I suggest a 14.4V cordless drill/driver and maybe a 14.4V impact driver. All other tools should have a tail on them.

[doubtingtom]

I appreciate the timely responses and have incorporated them in my decision. I have survived the initial 'setback' from the Ridigid support Threads and feel that their Lifetime Service more than compensates. The key is for me to set my expectations accordingly and purchase the proper tools and quantities to cover most problem scenarios.

Many thanks,

Tom B

[l_bilyk]

I think the makita kit is the best for your needs. They look a little weedy but they are in every way as good as the ridgid or milwaukee. If weight is a factor, this is your best option IMO.

[Disaster]

Another vote for a compact set.

Cordless tools are all about convenience and comfort. You can quickly grab a tool and drill a hole without needing to find an extension cord. The convenience factor is greatly diminished when the tool weighs 7 pounds.

Having said that, if you see some big jobs ahead in your future...like building a deck putting in subflooring, you might find the lightweight drill's lower power and capacity a bigger hindrance than the weight of the full sized drill. In that case I'd recommend a quality full sized drill (the Ridgid 24 volt set is competent) and a lightweight "easy-duty" drill to go with it.

Black and Decker is coming out with a new set of VPX tools that will have interchangeable lithium batteries. There will be a bunch of lightweight tools that work off these common batteries. This might be a good choice as a lightweight backup drill.

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-VPX1212-14-4-Volt-Driver/dp/B000UME3FG/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_2/102-7161189-6419312

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31ofkvQhIWL._SS400_.jpg

P.S. In the typical cordless toolset, that includes the basics of a drill, impact driver, circular saw and reciprocating saw, the drill and driver are the two tools that really benefit from the lighter weight in most situations. The circular saw and reciprocating saw really benefit from the higher power of the bigger 18, 24, 28...even 36 volt tools.

P.S.S. Love the 24 volt MaxSelect Reciprocating saw. I've chewed through some huge outside tree cleanup jobs with it. Run right out and get yourself a Skil Ugly blade, and take care of some of the fall pruning and I suspect you will be too. A word of warning. There is one design issue with the Ridgid saw. The blade stop clamp can vibrate loose. It this happens the pin can fall out and it isn't so easy to find in a pile of leaves below a tree. I was lucky and found the part and now keep a velcro strap around it.

[workerbob]

The Makita tools are by far the best of those you listed in my opinion. The Makita Li-Ion has been out for a while now and is tested to work. Yes the Compact tools have a 1.5 Ah battery but it is clearly labeled on the battery which is more than I can say for some other tools I have looked at. The quality of the Makita tools are rugged to say the least. I could easily say that my Makita Compact are "Pro" grade.

[erngum]

Tom,
Most of the work I do takes place in my garage shop, with odd tasks around the house/deck/etc. With that level of usage in mind, I recently completed my "dream combo". A Makita compact Li drill, a Bosch PS20 driver, and a Bosch PS40 Impactor. I have various other Ryobi cordless "gadgets", but all of my other serious tools are corded.

I truly appreciate the lightweight Makita after drilling dozens of pocket holes or shelf pin holes. Before the Makita I used a corded Ridgid, or an older Ryobi hammer drill. They both weigh around 6.5 lbs. which got to be a chore after extended use.

Since getting the Makita, and Bosch lightweights, my policy has been "As small and light a tool as will get the job done". Next on my list is the Makita compact impact driver to replace the Ryobi impact.

Also, do not forget to consider the new Milwaukee 12v lithium driver. It looks real nice and just became available from Amazon. Sorry, didn't mean to make your decision harder.

Ern

[doubtingtom]

Well, things just got worse (in one respect) this afternoon, and my options got easier (in another respect). I am very tempted to add this to one of the 'beat up HD or Ridgid' Threads, but will likely just let it go. Perhaps Josh will catch this post and work from his end to cause some long term correction at HD or Ridgid.

I had returned my 24v 3pc Ridgid Kit on Oct 10, due to the very negative posts re Ridgid support. I continued to monitor those posts and think through how I might deal with the issues raised. I became comfortable enough to make a larger commitment to Ridgid and contacted HD by telephone. I spoke with the on-duty store manager and explained the return on 10/10/07. I related the Forum impact on my decision but asked his help in allowing me to come back the the store and 'repurchase' the 24v Ridgid Kit .... actually the exact same one I had returned since it had a notable inventory tag on the box and was easy to identify. He said he would allow it and I drove to the store to make the 'repurchase'. When I brought the kit to the cashier and asked her to call him, per his instructions, he came out and noted that the Kit price had been increased back to its original value (+$110.) and that the best he could do was offer a 10% discount on the higher price. I declined, showed him my receipt for the purchase earlier in October, the refund receipt, and said I did not see why the latest price increase had any bearing on the specific 'repurchase'. He offered a typical 'Corporate Policy' excuse and apologized for my 10 mile drive out to the store. I reminded him that I had made the higher price issue clear when I called him earlier. He apologized again but said it was not possible to do what he had offered on the telephone.

I make this lengthy narrative because this type of decision making seems to be more and more common with local managers, who really manage very little. They 'parrot' store or Company policy to customers and do little else. This particular store also brags consistently about their unique implementation of the ESP program , which is totally at odds with his stated inability to manipulate Corporate policy related to my unique 'repurchase' scenario.

Unless something dramatic happens in the next day or so, instead of me essentially locking myself into complete commitment to Ridgid cordless power tools, I will end up going in a totally different direction with Makita or possibly Milwaukee. This is not by free choice, but because of absurd and significant price fluctuations at HD for these Ridgid 24v kits. $379. to $269. and back to $379. I watch their store inventory and they were moving quite slowly at $269. They are gathering dust at $379.!

I remain open to revisiting this situation for a couple days, but after that I will make the alternative product choice and that will block my Ridgid additions for many years to come. I had planned on adding the MaxSelect Impact Driver, Jigsaw, possibly the 9.6v Screwdriver, and the corded Worm-drive Circular Saw. Instead, this business will likely go over to Lowes as soon as their imminent Christmas inventory arrival.

What a sad shame and testimony to pathetic policy and absence of management judgement! Good luck selling that kit at $379. when Milwaukee just shipped in their V18 Hammer Drill and bonus Impact Driver 2 L-I batts and charger, nice red case for $299. and a 10% discount is there for the asking.

Guys, I'm not mad, I'm disgusted !! Your replies to my post have been quite helpful and I am now 'unwinding' all the decision making process that led me back to Ridgid and reevaluating the alternatives you offered.

Tom B

[Kevin4317]

I use several drills during the day.I use my makita lxt 3.0 ahr set (drill impact sawzall and circ saw) during my big jobs framing roughing out plumbing electrical.But I have the ps20 and a 12volt for light work working on fixtures electrical boxes and so on. I think you always need 2 drills now a days cause you dont wonna use you 18v drill on electrical boxes or putting up simple shelfes for your home all just prefrence i guess

[doubtingtom]

I use several drills during the day.I use my makita lxt 3.0 ahr set (drill impact sawzall and circ saw) during my big jobs framing roughing out plumbing electrical.But I have the ps20 and a 12volt for light work working on fixtures electrical boxes and so on. I think you always need 2 drills now a days cause you dont wonna use you 18v drill on electrical boxes or putting up simple shelfes for your home all just prefrence i guess

The trend to lighter tools is really clear and that brings a lot of focus on the Makita 18v L-I and Bosch 10.8v Litheon offerings. Since my 3 new composite raised decks are now in ... just trim to do ... my major need to drive large numbers of deck screws is past. I did most of it with a corded DeWalt and it worked pretty well. I agree with the 2+ drill scenario and am thinking that I may do better with 2 drill drivers (1 heavy duty, 1 light) than to 'force' the Impact Driver purchase for very low volume work. I spent some time with the Ridgid 1/2 inch 24v Drill/Driver and got really comfortable with setting the clutch to drive composite deck screws.
Of course, heavy drills always work well when working DOWN !! :D

Thanks,

Tom B

[erngum]

After receiving a free 9.6v screwdriver with a finish nailer combo last year, I no longer use my drill/drivers as drivers. Between a screwdriver and an impact driver (currently a Bosch PS20 and PS40), all of my driving needs are met. I will eventually compliment my Makita drill with the impact driver. The Makita compact combo for $269 is very tempting, and it would give me a second drill.

Ern

[threecreeks3]

After much waiting as the place I ordered it from was out of stock.Friday the Makita 14 volt nimh drill driver light combo arrived.I'm not feeling well and haven't used it yet but looked it over pretty well.They look very well made a comfortable grip..a bit heavy I thought with the battery pack but still seem to "feel right".Iv'e had my old 9.6 makita dril a very long time and it amazingly still functions just fine but is close to needing yet another set of batteries.I like that its nimh I'm about as far from a tree hugger as you can get but I like that nimh isnt some toxic waste thing.I converted a couple years ago to nimh for all my battery needs for flashlights cameras etc and really like the batteries.
Look around ,the Makita set I got can be bought for 219$ at several places.Admittedly for some tools I'm a Makita fan.The only Makita tool that has failed me is a drywall driver and that only after uncounted boxes of drywall screws and a few pt deck projects which really taxed its power.I really use tools hard and don't baby them..they survive or don't
Sam

[Disaster]

He offered a typical 'Corporate Policy' excuse and apologized for my 10 mile drive out to the store. I reminded him that I had made the higher price issue clear when I called him earlier. He apologized again but said it was not possible to do what he had offered on the telephone.

Sorry to hear that. I'm not surprised. I've seen way too much arbitrary decision making liike this from store managers to be surprised.

Reading your other posts, I'd lean toward the Makita set. I'd do a little more online and store investigation to see if there have been an inordinate amount of battery failures. Barring that, I'd go Makita. My 14.4 volt Panasonic gets used 10 times for every one time I reach for the 24 volt Ridgid.

[doubtingtom]

There is consistency to what I see and my choices are the Makita 1.5 AHr L-I Kit or the Bosch 20/40 pair. If the Bosch is up to most homeowner tasks for several years, I would likely go that way even though they don't offer a 'kit'. Their current $20 rebate is attractive though. The safe buy is surely the Makita Kit since is more than strong enough for my needs based on some brief Impact Driver 'hands-on' at a local store. The best Bosch deal locally is both 20 and 40 for $$300. (less the $20 rebate) = $280. [ BUT I get 4 batts and 2 chargers]. The Makita Kit is $269.and they will through in a 10% discount = $242. Based on your comments, I can't go terribly wrong with either choice.

Thanks and Regards,
Tom B

[l_bilyk]

What about the makita 3.0 Ah kit? The reason I suggest this kit is because the drill has a hammer function, and you're not saving that much weight with the 1.5 ah batteries. Plus if you ever want to get more tools, the reciprocating saw and circular saw will run better with the higher capacity batteries.

If I were buying the bosch tools, I would probably just get the impact driver. I don't see a whole lot of benefit from having the pair.

[doubtingtom]

What about the makita 3.0 Ah kit? The reason I suggest this kit is because the drill has a hammer function, and you're not saving that much weight with the 1.5 ah batteries. Plus if you ever want to get more tools, the reciprocating saw and circular saw will run better with the higher capacity batteries.

If I were buying the bosch tools, I would probably just get the impact driver. I don't see a whole lot of benefit from having the pair.

Sound thoughts, but that opens the earlier Milwaukee V18 Kit ($299. less 10% local discount = $269.) issue. That's a heck of a Hammer Drill and the Milwaukee Impact Driver tossed in free (plus two L-I batts and charger of course). I am not being argumentative ... just do not have experience with the Makita Hammer Drill to make a comparison.

How do you regard the Milwaukee compared to the Makita?

Tom B

[Disaster]

There is consistency to what I see and my choices are the Makita 1.5 AHr L-I Kit or the Bosch 20/40 pair. If the Bosch is up to most homeowner tasks for several years, I would likely go that way even though they don't offer a 'kit'. Their current $20 rebate is attractive though. The safe buy is surely the Makita Kit since is more than strong enough for my needs based on some brief Impact Driver 'hands-on' at a local store. The best Bosch deal locally is both 20 and 40 for $$300. (less the $20 rebate) = $280. [ BUT I get 4 batts and 2 chargers]. The Makita Kit is $269.and they will through in a 10% discount = $242. Based on your comments, I can't go terribly wrong with either choice.

Thanks and Regards,
Tom B

Woe there Nelly.

The Bosch tool is a 1/4" quick connect driver....not a drill with a chuck and it has a minuscule 90 in-lbs of torque. It is great for what it was intended to do, drive small fasteners...like in cabinets and when hanging curtains.

The Bosch impact version raises the bar quite a bit, for torque...but only "impact" torque and is even less of a drill.

The Makita compact 18 volt has over 400 in-lbs of torque and a real Jacobs chuck.

If they had sold the Makita as a set, with the drill and driver it would have been my choice over the decidingly more expensive Panasonic. Nothing wrong with the Panasonic, you just get more for your money with the Makita kit.

[doubtingtom]

Woe there Nelly.

The Bosch tool is a 1/4" quick connect driver....not a drill with a chuck and it has a minuscule 90 in-lbs of torque. It is great for what it was intended to do, drive small fasteners...like in cabinets and when hanging curtains.

The Bosch impact version raises the bar quite a bit, for torque...but only "impact" torque and is even less of a drill.

The Makita compact 18 volt has over 400 in-lbs of torque and a real Jacobs chuck.

If they had sold the Makita as a set, with the drill and driver it would have been my choice over the decidingly more expensive Panasonic. Nothing wrong with the Panasonic, you just get more for your money with the Makita kit.

Exactly ... which is why I said the 'safe' choice is the Makita Kit. Any of my projects are diverse enough and infrequent enough to make me worry that the next one will be more than the Bosch is intended to handle. It's a much 'safer' choice for active users who know their tasks and volumes and know that the Bosch pros and cons work for them.

No matter how many cycles this process goes thru, the Makita L-I Kit keeps coming up as a very sound choice.

Tom B

[roadrashray]

Well, things just got worse (in one respect) this afternoon, and my options got easier (in another respect). I am very tempted to add this to one of the 'beat up HD or Ridgid' Threads, but will likely just let it go. Perhaps Josh will catch this post and work from his end to cause some long term correction at HD or Ridgid.

I had returned my 24v 3pc Ridgid Kit on Oct 10, due to the very negative posts re Ridgid support. I continued to monitor those posts and think through how I might deal with the issues raised. I became comfortable enough to make a larger commitment to Ridgid and contacted HD by telephone. I spoke with the on-duty store manager and explained the return on 10/10/07. I related the Forum impact on my decision but asked his help in allowing me to come back the the store and 'repurchase' the 24v Ridgid Kit .... actually the exact same one I had returned since it had a notable inventory tag on the box and was easy to identify. He said he would allow it and I drove to the store to make the 'repurchase'. When I brought the kit to the cashier and asked her to call him, per his instructions, he came out and noted that the Kit price had been increased back to its original value (+$110.) and that the best he could do was offer a 10% discount on the higher price. I declined, showed him my receipt for the purchase earlier in October, the refund receipt, and said I did not see why the latest price increase had any bearing on the specific 'repurchase'. He offered a typical 'Corporate Policy' excuse and apologized for my 10 mile drive out to the store. I reminded him that I had made the higher price issue clear when I called him earlier. He apologized again but said it was not possible to do what he had offered on the telephone.

I make this lengthy narrative because this type of decision making seems to be more and more common with local managers, who really manage very little. They 'parrot' store or Company policy to customers and do little else. This particular store also brags consistently about their unique implementation of the ESP program , which is totally at odds with his stated inability to manipulate Corporate policy related to my unique 'repurchase' scenario.

Unless something dramatic happens in the next day or so, instead of me essentially locking myself into complete commitment to Ridgid cordless power tools, I will end up going in a totally different direction with Makita or possibly Milwaukee. This is not by free choice, but because of absurd and significant price fluctuations at HD for these Ridgid 24v kits. $379. to $269. and back to $379. I watch their store inventory and they were moving quite slowly at $269. They are gathering dust at $379.!

I remain open to revisiting this situation for a couple days, but after that I will make the alternative product choice and that will block my Ridgid additions for many years to come. I had planned on adding the MaxSelect Impact Driver, Jigsaw, possibly the 9.6v Screwdriver, and the corded Worm-drive Circular Saw. Instead, this business will likely go over to Lowes as soon as their imminent Christmas inventory arrival.

What a sad shame and testimony to pathetic policy and absence of management judgement! Good luck selling that kit at $379. when Milwaukee just shipped in their V18 Hammer Drill and bonus Impact Driver 2 L-I batts and charger, nice red case for $299. and a 10% discount is there for the asking.

Guys, I'm not mad, I'm disgusted !! Your replies to my post have been quite helpful and I am now 'unwinding' all the decision making process that led me back to Ridgid and reevaluating the alternatives you offered.

Tom B

Re: Ridgid sucks ... can't be worse than Bosch !!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After my own Ridgid issues, I tried to register my new Bosch Jigsaw online ... the form did not transmit yesterday or today ... the URL is not working. I called Bosch and they said to try in a few days .... only my 'worthless' time to recomplete the long form each time, right ??? Then I called Customer Service to get clarification on their $20 Oct 2007 Rebate ..... she told me to contact the online dealer where the form was made available .... after 10 deep breaths I told her that the rebate form had Bosch logos all over it and had nothing to do with the dealer. I wanted clarification that I could buy the 'bare tool' only and receive the rebate. There is absolutely no hint of anything saying otherwise on the form. She checked and told me that the bare tool was probably not included. I asked for Bosch Tool Corporate phone number and pushed the Customer Service choice .... got back to the same 'outsource' people. Called back (long distance) again and dialed for the Operator. I asked for Corporate Marketing and got a lady's voicemail. She was on vacation and provided another lady's extension. I called again and got that lady's voicemail. I called again (long distance) and the Operator extension just plays music. I called two more times and the Operator never picked up .... just 'on-hold' music. That is Bosch Power Tool Headquarters 'professionalism' ??????

I KNOW ..... the Litheon tools are probably fine ..... BUT GUESS WHAT ??? ... I'm NOT buying them with that pathetic experience trying to reach a human being at Bosch with a functioning brain !!! Maybe the Ridgid situation needs to be revisited in a more positive light ???? .... I can't say, but I can at least talk to people there !!!!!

Go Ridgid !!

Tom B

.........WOW Tom! I don't know if the Home Depot mgr thought you complaineth or returneth to much. You're first post seemed sincere enough. You had just purchased a Ridgid 18V Nicad drill "after much agonizing" and were questioning other legitimate sounding options. In the short couple of weeks since that first post you have flitted around like a butterfly in heat. Evaluating tools, buying tools, using tools, building decks, returning tools, getting into the middle of a couple of controversies and ultimately joined the complainers club dissing Ridgid, Home Depot, and now Bosch.
You bought and returned the Ridgid 18V drill, you bought, built a deck with and returned the Ridgid 24V LI set, you suggested buying the Ridgid 12V Right Angle impact(.....and return after using?), you talked about buying the Ridgid 18V LI Compact Drill. You jumped into the middle of the great Ridgid 1.5Ah battery controversy throwing opinions in every direction. You jumped on the Ridgid professional dissers bandwagon. You claimed to have made momentous decisions based upon input from those two threads. You're posts indicate an articulate intelligent man. Were you really making decisions from threads that were being run by a couple of professional complainers? Did you notice that the entire responding audiance was approximately twenty by the posts to their own surveys?
I'm not sure if you were a leader or a follower? I did notice that of the tool choices you are now making one is the Makita Compact Drill-Driver set. Did you notice that it contains the accursed 1.5Ah Li batteries?
Did you notice that the Milwaukee 18V LI Compact drill uses 1.4Ah batteries? Think of all the energy you used up getting your panties in a twist ever Ridgid using 1.5Ah batteries. You didn't know anything about the tool. You didn't pay any attention to the people who were making very positive comments about the Ridgid Compact drill using the 1.5 batteries based uppon actually using the tool . Did you notice that the largest number of responces to the "battery survey" were from users who were going to keep their drills regardless of the mistakes made by Ridgid? No, probably not. You were all caught up in the great conspiracy game.
You have quickly gone from a poster with a legitimate question to someone who thinks the combined efforts of Ridgid customer service, technical reps, Home Depot store managers, department managers, and who knows who else should respond to your purchases, returns, repurchases, evaluations, manipulations and complaints. You need to take a valium.
In my opinion Home Depot would be well advised to pay Lowe's to take you as a customer.

[Frankiarmz]

Tom does sound confused a bit but it takes all kinds to make the world go round. I only have buyers remorse if the product doesn't live up to it's claims. I would have kept that 24 volt lithium kit if it was working fine, on the other hand if I bought the compact 18 volt lithium after several Ridgid reps said it was 2.9AH I would have returned it. The guys who are using these compact drills don't seem to be complaining and neither are the 24 volt lithium guys. I'm happy with my 18 volt nicad tools, just would like to have the higher amp hour lithiums. I'm sure the folks at Ridgid won't get left in the dust, in the mean time if I was Tom I would buy that 24 volt Ridgid set and enjoy it!:D

[Disaster]

.........WOW Tom! I don't know if the Home Depot mgr thought you complaineth or returneth to much. You're first post seemed sincere enough.

....ultimately joined the complainers club dissing Ridgid, Home Depot, and now Bosch.
...You're posts indicate an articulate intelligent man.

...You didn't know anything about the tool. You didn't pay any attention to the people who were making very positive comments about the Ridgid Compact drill using the 1.5 batteries based uppon actually using the tool .

...You were all caught up in the great conspiracy game.
You have quickly gone from a poster with a legitimate question to someone who thinks the combined efforts of Ridgid customer service, technical reps, Home Depot store managers, department managers, and who knows who else should respond to your purchases, returns, repurchases, evaluations, manipulations and complaints. You need to take a valium.
In my opinion Home Depot would be well advised to pay Lowe's to take you as a customer.

Woe (my second woe today) RoadRash. You started out conciliatory...heck, I like some of the basic stuff you were trying to say...but then you moved on to insults and got downright nasty.

Here is my viewpoint.

Some people do agonize over purchases more than others. Some enjoy the process, others are just a little more on the obsessive compulsive side. We are all different and should be accepting of our differences. Personally, I love the people that get into it and do all the research for me. I appreciate that Tom was able to smoke out the real Ah of the Ridgid compact 18 volt drill.

Having said that, I agree with you that Tom got a little caught up in the Ridgid complaints. Heck, I feel a little guilty and was a bit shocked he had already returned his 24 volt set already. While there are shortcomings to the 24 volt Ridgid set I will be the first to say, at the pricepoint he bought them for, they were a good value. In fact, value is the main reason I have a Ridgid 24 volt set. You can't have value with good prices and poor goods. To be a value the stuff has to perform and the 24 volt Ridgid tools do that. My two biggest "cons" to the Ridgid 24 volt set is the weight and the self-draining battery. Neither of these things caused me to return my set though.

Moving on to the 18 volt Lithium compact drill, I find this less of a value compared to the Makita. The $30 lower price, IMHO, is offset by the Makita name, weight, and size. On the other hand, if really are looking for a single battery system, IMHO Ridgid's other tools, the circular saw and reciprocating saw are better than the Makita 18v tools.

Regarding Home Depots policies, I'm not surprised they didn't offer him the old lower price. I haven't seen managers bend prices more than the 10% which they will usually offer anytime there is an issue.

However, Home Depot has always been very good about returns. Heck, at one point they had advertisements that showed people turning in beat up tools because they decided they didn't like them a year later. That turned out to be an ill advised move because it brought the sleazebags out of the woodwork....the guys who would buy tools only to return them after every job.

I don't believe Tom was trying to be that kind of customer.

My suggestion for Tom is to take a wait and see attitude. I suspect we will see Ridgid discounts return. There seem to be good deals before every holiday season.

In fact, I just read a report that said stores had a particularly bad third quarter and to expect deals in the 4th.

Good luck.

[doubtingtom]

(posted prior to seeing Disaster's intervening post) ................

I actually used only two tools (18v L-I drill) and opted for the heavier duty 24v kit. BTW, every major manufacturer and both Lowes and HD encourage customers to purchase their tools and trial them for 30 days to see how they perform. I have only done this twice and with minimal 'trial' use .... NO project work of any magnitude PERIOD! I do not consider that as doing anything more than responding to their open offers.

Returning the 24v Ridgid Kit was (in retrospect) my mistake and an overreaction to a number of support complaints seen here. Once I sorted these out I tried to resolve my mistake by purchasing back the very kit I had returned. Had the HD manager told me on the telephone that he could not do this, I would have not made the drive out there and would have accepted his 'policy' statement. Posting this factual experience was not useful and was a reaction to his 'backing up' on a commitment. My misjudgement .....

The Bosch experiences this morning are accurately stated and specifically posted to 'offset' the Thread subject "Ridgid Sucks". Again, perhaps not a useful exercise.

I enjoyed a long career in high tech domestic and international field sales and support. I was always held to a very high standard in terms of customer satisfaction. Perhaps others take these problems lightly or have accepted them as ' just the way it is'. I do not.

Being retired offers me more time than appropriate on Forums like this and I take your comments as good advice to back off and keep the comments to relevant tool issues.

Regrets and regards,
Tom B

[Disaster]

One other suggestion the "real tool" people might frown on.

You might want to consider the Ryboi OnePlus setup. While Ryobi's aren't as tough or capable as the Ridgid lineup, they are very competent tools...especially for the occasional use of a homeowner and retiree.

There are several advantages of the Ryobi tools.

Pros:
1. Lighter
2. Less expensive
3. Much more extensive lineup (hedge trimmer, weed sprayer, grinder, right angle drill...etc...etc.)
4. Better availabilty of tools and accessories...especially batteries.

Cons:
1. Less robust
2. Less "capable"...less torque, lower Ah batteries. (This is with current 1.7Ah batteries...I will re-evaluate when I get a hold of the new 2.4Ah Lithium cells.)

I have have used my Ryobi OnePlus tools for years now and never had a failure.

Here are some side by side comparisons.

-Ryobi: 3 speed impact drill vs. Ridgid hammer drill.

Ryobi 1 1/2 pounds lighter. Lower torque....but quite capable.

-Ryobi 2 speed drill vs. Ridgid compact.

Ryobi a half pound lighter. Not as much torque but adequate. Nice bit holder.

-Ryobi impact gun vs. Ridgid.

Ryobi considerably lighter. Battery life not less but not as big and issue as impact seems to run and run. Both have way more torque than is needed for wood screw driving.

-Ryobi sabre saw:

Ryobi lighter and easy bit changes. Noticeably shorter battery life than Ridgid.

-Ryobi reciprocating saw.

Wayyyy less power than Ridgid. Vibrates horribly. One of the worst tools in the Ryobi lineup, IMHO.

-Ryobi circular saw.

Adequate but noticeably less torque runtime than Ridgid.



Some tools Ryobi has that Ridgid has not counterparts for.

-Garden sprayer (fantastic device, I have two...one for grass killer, one for weed killer.)

-Hedge trimmer (quite capable for hedge trimming...as long as you aren't doing a big cutback...with major branches)

-Pruning saw (Ryobi reciprocating saw on a 6 foot pole...this is the best use of the Ryobi reciprocating saw.)

-Grinder (handy gadget)

-Hole cutter and high speed saw (wayyy handy...use like big cordless Dremel all the time to polish and grind.)

-Fan (great for when working in a tight hot space like attic.)

-Hand vac (works like Dustbuster with rechargeable batteries.)

-Right angle drill (don't use a lot but when I do I'm so glad I have it....like when I needed to bore holes in studs to run wiring.)

[NavyBuck]

I'll second Disaster's comments about the Ryobi OnePlus tools. They clearly do not have the "pro" standard of power and (probably) durability, but they work well for me puttering around this house. Hell, I even have a miter saw in the series (you can't find that one anymore :p). I sort of collect them like Matchbox toys. I also have the chainsaw in the line, but haven't used it yet.

Having said that, I also have the Bosch 10 and 20 and love them. I throw them in my tool bag and forget about them until I need them. The Li batteries are nice for that as the Ryobi NiCads will discharge fairly quickly just sitting around. I am on the fence about getting the Bosch impact driver, though. I wouldn't use it nearly as much as I am using the 10 and the 20 and I already have the Ryobi impact.

[roadrashray]

(posted prior to seeing Disaster's intervening post) ................

I actually used only two tools (18v L-I drill) and opted for the heavier duty 24v kit. BTW, every major manufacturer and both Lowes and HD encourage customers to purchase their tools and trial them for 30 days to see how they perform. I have only done this twice and with minimal 'trial' use .... NO project work of any magnitude PERIOD! I do not consider that as doing anything more than responding to their open offers.

Returning the 24v Ridgid Kit was (in retrospect) my mistake and an overreaction to a number of support complaints seen here. Once I sorted these out I tried to resolve my mistake by purchasing back the very kit I had returned. Had the HD manager told me on the telephone that he could not do this, I would have not made the drive out there and would have accepted his 'policy' statement. Posting this factual experience was not useful and was a reaction to his 'backing up' on a commitment. My misjudgement .....

The Bosch experiences this morning are accurately stated and specifically posted to 'offset' the Thread subject "Ridgid Sucks". Again, perhaps not a useful exercise.

I enjoyed a long career in high tech domestic and international field sales and support. I was always held to a very high standard in terms of customer satisfaction. Perhaps others take these problems lightly or have accepted them as ' just the way it is'. I do not.

Being retired offers me more time than appropriate on Forums like this and I take your comments as good advice to back off and keep the comments to relevant tool issues.

Regrets and regards,
Tom B

I did get a little caustic in some of my comments. If I was offensive please accept my apology.
I don't remember EVER seeing a statement from any power tool manufacturer or retailer "encouraging people to trial their products for 30 days". What is very common from the large retailers is a "satisfaction guarantee policy that allows for the return of products that if for any reason you are not satisfied". That is a great deal. Return of a product "if not satisfied" has a much different meaning and level of customer responsibility than "encouraging people to try products for 30 days".
"Encouraging a 30 day trial" implies taking various products home for a test and returning them taking the next product in line and continuing the process until finding the perfect match. I would be very happy with such a process as it would greatly diminish my research process before purchasing a tool. Just keep taking them home until I get the perfect match! You state that you "spent a long career in sales". I would suggest that a little reflection on the costs related to wholesale "trialing" of power tools would be very difficult to sustain from an economic standpoint. When a tool is used "even just a little" then it must be discounted for sale.
I have always concluded that "Satisfaction Guaranteed" requires some responsibility on my part. I research tools through this and other forums, review product evalution articles, talk with other tool users and do my best to make an honest purchasing decision. In some of the stores that rent tools I will try them through that process. After the purchase if the product does not meet it's manufactuer's claims, is not reliable, has problems that are not supported properly by customer service I may return it for a refund or exchange. I very much remember the "good old days" before the liberal policies of the Big Box retailers when we were held captive by arbitrary and capricious policies of the small independents. Try purchasing an expensive DeWalt tool from a small independent and returning it after use with a "I just didn't like it" or "some guys were saying bad stuff about their customer service on a forum" or "can I try the Makita now." See how that goes over with them!
I always try to remember that customer service people and retail sales people and managers are human beings and subject to the same human interaction response as myself. If someone comes on to me with an "attitude and all demanding and telling me how they can buy their stuff someplace else and how important they are with all the stuff they buy and their big time worldliness and how dumb my company is and the people who work there and blah and blah", I might get an attitude. Many customer service people will smile and talk pleasently and sweet and somehow the paperwork will be lost or the computer file will be erased or the phone mail discarded. These people are on the "front lines" of company policy.....good or bad and have to deal with it five days a week, eight hours a day. I have found over the years that I can browbeat them and my problem will probably get worse or I can sweet talk and empathise with them and in many cases a problem that "company policy would not fix" will be taken care of. It's the CEOs that get the big hundred million dollar bonuses and all to often the customer service gets a reduction in staff.
Good luck with your tools...Ray

[Frankiarmz]

Ryobi is a decent alternative for homeowners although I know a couple pros who use them. If their 2.4AH lithiums work well the tools will be a real bargain. I really like my Ridgid 18 volt nicad tools but I can't just get rid of my Ryobi tools. Just got a response from Dewalt support team, their 18 volt nano lithium battery is rated at 2.4AH and they will not be offering anything higher.

[Disaster]

Just got a response from Dewalt support team, their 18 volt nano lithium battery is rated at 2.4AH and they will not be offering anything higher.

I think that is plenty.

With all this recent concern about battery power it might put things into perspective to take a look at a decade ago when 12 volts was a high voltage tool and 1.2Ah batteries were common. I just sold my first premium drill on Ebay. It was a Bosch 12 volt powerhouse with a "high capacity" 1.6Ah NiCd battery! I think I paid something like $175 dollars for it. That works out to 19.2 Watts of power. In comparison, 10 years later we can buy a Ridgid 18 volt drill with 1.5Ah Lithium batteries for $180. ...actually about $35 dollars less if you take inflation into account. The Ridgid batteries have 27 Watts of power....almost 50% more.

[woodenstickers]

I use my tools every day for work and have been grandfathered into continuing with DeWalt 14.4. I can't imagine needing much more than the power I get from my XRP batteries, but do look forward to the Nano batteries becoming available in this voltage.

All this said, I have several co-workers who use the ryobi +0ne system with nothing but compliments for it. I know that my dewalt stuff feels more solid and stays stronger longer than theirs after years of use, and being spoiled this way has kept me spoiled. I also know though, that they are getting the same work done that I am and paid half the price for their tools.

How do I rationalize this? I look at the relationship these guys have with their tools compared to mine. I love my tools. I love using them. Sometimes I like running into a problem situation on a job just so I can pull out a much loved specialty tool and put it to use. I take care of my tools. I keep them in their cases. I oil the ones that need oiling. I don't misuse them (unless I absolutely HAVE to), though I do use them hard.

My point?

I enjoy them. This makes the extra $ worthwhile, because like an automotive enthusiast, or a wine connoisseur, I understand the difference that quality makes in use. And I appreciate it. AND I am willing to pay for it because it makes me happy while I work.

This is your sticking point, my friend. Are you like my buddy, a damned good carpenter and powerhouse producer who loves to beat his ryobi drill to it's last breath, toss it and get another one, gleefully passing up the chumps who pay 2-3 times what he does and still can't touch him on productivity?

Or are you like me, enjoying the fact that, unlike him, I know that the impact driver I'm holding is not a "hammer drill" and quietly appreciating how much better it feels, and my wrist feels, while using it, not dropping it on the floor, and taking the process of each job as part of the reward?

I don't think either is wrong, they both have their merits. Almost any tool you get for around the house projects as a home owner is guaranteed to be better than what I had in my kit when I started in construction 10 years ago. You will get any job done easier than could have been imagined in the past.

So what will make you happiest, Tom?

Ehh. If the philosophy angle doesn't work just go hold them all and see which on e feels the best. I personally don't like the angle on Makita drills. I also think you'd be better off getting a true drill and driver set and staying away from the pocket driver as a drill. No chuck as stated before.

For me it would be between the DeWalt 14.4 which has served me incredibly well, and the new ryobi LI set which gives you three more tools for the same price, drill, light, circ saw, impact and your choice of bare tool for $279 I think?

Neither one on your list. Sorry for that!:D:D

[woodenstickers]

And as a PS, I have never been that bothered changing batteries. I just always keep one charged. I don't really get all the fuss about longer AH, but then maybe I am not QUITE the connoisseur that I think I am:rolleyes:

[Disaster]

And as a PS, I have never been that bothered changing batteries. I just always keep one charged. I don't really get all the fuss about longer AH, but then maybe I am not QUITE the connoisseur that I think I am:rolleyes:

Not me, man, the only thing that bothers me worse than running low on juice so I have to recharge before I can finish a job is to pick up a tool only to find I need to charge it before I can even get started.

I think this depends a great deal on whether you have a few cordless tools that you use to zap a screw in, or drill a hole here or there....or whether you have a cordless arsenal that you intend on doing nearly everything with. In the latter case, if you get low on battery power, it knocks you right out of commision. The only way to keep going is to run back and get your corded tool, find an outlet and......grrrrrrrrrrrr. Makes you curse and ask yourself why you bought the darn things in the first place.

I can remember way too often working on a bigger job where I got "ahead" of the batteries. Before I knew it I was down to my last one and the tool was starting to strain and the reserves were waiting to cool to recharge. Heck, I used to use the "stuff 'em in the freezer" trick to speed up the process.

For my 1.7Ah Ryobi OnePlus stuff I kept 4 batteries on hand. With the Ridgid 24 volt tools I can get as much work done with one battery as took 3 OnePlus batteries, and I don't have to go through the crazy battery cooling rigmarole. I'm loving it.

[Frankiarmz]

Since I've done a lot of complaining about longer AH's, I'll give my reasons again. I like to think that as technology improves to give us better or more user friendly products, we don't lose anything in the mix. I don't want a car that gives me fifty miles to a gallon and only a three gallon tank! I'm use to the 2.5 AH nicad, but a 3.0 AH lithium would be even better. The weight doesn't bother me and the rewards of steady power and longer run times without having to recharge are part of the benefits of progress I mentioned. I have no problem with the offering of a compact, lighter and lower AH battery, it's a great idea for those who don't need that longer run time. Just understand the usefulness of a longer run time through higher AH's for the guys who are using their tools hard, are working a distance from their charger, and don't want to waste time switching and charging batteries when it would be so simple to just give them a product that is profitable to make and sell. I recenty saw a Panasonic 15.6 volt NIMH drill, it had a 3.5AH battery. My point is that there is a market for the higher AH battery, so what's the down side of giving it to us? Maybe I don't know enough about design and technolongy but it seems simple enough to double the size of that compact lithium and have a 3.0 AH product. Ridgid would have bragging rights over Ryobi (2.4AH) and Dewalt (2.4AH). I like my 18 volt Ridgid tools, I just think if they're going to offer advances in technology they shouldn't weaken the product with shorter run times than the older technology 18 volt 2.5AH nicads. I want it all, and I'll pay for it. Give me an 18 volt lithium 3.0 or greater, give me lithiums for my other Ridgid tools 12 and 14.4 volt. Give me a wall of single and double packed lithiums and single and double bay chargers at my local Home Depot. If Ridgid is in the business of selling tools and making money, then they need to give the customer what he/she wants. Why do I have to switch brands in order to get a higher AH lithium battery? The answer is I shouldn't, because it would be a foolish move to have all those 18 volt tools out there and instead of leading the group of manufacturers with a substantial run time lithium battery, be the one with "Half" the amps! Can you imagine Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks all fighting to be the one Pros want to buy and use, and all similar in power, fuel economy and warrantee but the Chevy has a six gallon gas tank while the others have a fifteen gallon tank? Even if you like the Chevy more, that small gas tank is gonna bother you. I want that big tank, give me equal or greater range than the competition.:D

[doubtingtom]

I use my tools every day for work and have been grandfathered into continuing with DeWalt 14.4. I can't imagine needing much more than the power I get from my XRP batteries, but do look forward to the Nano batteries becoming available in this voltage.

My point? ...
I enjoy them. This makes the extra $ worthwhile, because like an automotive enthusiast, or a wine connoisseur, I understand the difference that quality makes in use. And I appreciate it. AND I am willing to pay for it because it makes me happy while I work.

So what will make you happiest, Tom? ............

I also think you'd be better off getting a true drill and driver set and staying away from the pocket driver as a drill. No chuck as stated before.

For me it would be between the DeWalt 14.4 which has served me incredibly well, and the new ryobi LI set which gives you three more tools for the same price, drill, light, circ saw, impact and your choice of bare tool for $279 I think?

Neither one on your list. Sorry for that!:D:D
------------------------------------------------------

Most of my lifetime 'key' purchase choices have been based on the type of factors you incoporate in your decisions. They were also made when growth and opportunity were before me versus now in active, but older early retirement years. I would never have labored over these decisions in times past ..... OTH .... my lifetime 'high tecky' side leans toward a newer, L-I batt solution, even though the XRP's are clearly capable for my needs.

Your post triggers some meaningful issues and I know I will not be 'AS' happy with anything less than a quality solution that brings pride as well as functionality. Deep inside, I guess I would rather struggle with a bit more weight and size than try to find similar enjoyment in the lightweight attributes of something like the 'pocket' driver ...... even though it will likely function very well.

I would be inconsistent .... after reading the comments here ..... if I did not at least take time to review the Ryobi +One products .... which I will do. I will also check on the nano L-I time frame.

This specific process has been overworked, for sure, but I know I will be more content with the result.

Tom B

[l_bilyk]

Sound thoughts, but that opens the earlier Milwaukee V18 Kit ($299. less 10% local discount = $269.) issue. That's a heck of a Hammer Drill and the Milwaukee Impact Driver tossed in free (plus two L-I batts and charger of course). I am not being argumentative ... just do not have experience with the Makita Hammer Drill to make a comparison.

How do you regard the Milwaukee compared to the Makita?

Tom B

I like the milwaukee v18 much more than the ridgid 24v. The 24v tools are much too heavy and bulky, up to the point where i would rather drag a cord around. I think given the options I would lean towards the milwaukee kit. However, I think makita makes the better impact driver. The milwaukee and ridgid impact drivers are too big and bulky

[Disaster]

...
I enjoy them. This makes the extra $ worthwhile, because like an automotive enthusiast, or a wine connoisseur, I understand the difference that quality makes in use. And I appreciate it. AND I am willing to pay for it because it makes me happy while I work.
...
This is your sticking point, my friend. Are you like my buddy, a damned good carpenter and powerhouse producer who loves to beat his ryobi drill to it's last breath, toss it and get another one, gleefully passing up the chumps who pay 2-3 times what he does and still can't touch him on productivity?

Or are you like me, enjoying the fact that, unlike him, I know that the impact driver I'm holding is not a "hammer drill" and quietly appreciating how much better it feels, and my wrist feels, while using it, not dropping it on the floor, and taking the process of each job as part of the reward?


...I know I will not be 'AS' happy with anything less than a quality solution that brings pride as well as functionality.

This specific process has been overworked, for sure, but I know I will be more content with the result.

Tom B

I think you have a bit of the pride effect that effecting how "durable" a more expensive tool is. When you pay more, and have more pride, you tend to take better care of your tools. This is a bit like comparing a house owner to an apartment renter....or a car buyer to a leaser.

While I might never tax a tool such that I would benefit from it's superior workmanship, I do appreciate it.

Having said that, I agree with someone who posted on the Ryobi forum. He said "Buying a Ryobi is like getting 80% as much tool for 40% as much money." You definitely give something up compared to a DeWalt or a Ridgid. The question is, do you need it and do you care? Similarly, oen might arguably say buying a Ridgid is often like getting 95% as much tool for 80% of the money compared to DeWalt.

With Ridgid you give up weight, spectrum of available tools and accessories, and service and serviceability in general (replaceable brushes for example.)

I look at tools as having a bunch of tiers of quality....with diminishing returns as you go up.

First tier (low quality knockoffs): Cheap chinese ripoffs sold by Harbor Freight and similar places. These are drills you can buy for $30 bucks and usually aren't going to last even the casual user very long. Brushes and wiring fail. Batteries often don't last a year.

Second tier (trademark tools): Branded chinese tools that passed some level of quality control. They have brand names like Coleman and Kawasacki and are sold in Kmart and Costco.

Third tier (homeowner/weekend warrior): Homeowner brands like Black and Decker and Ryobi. These are mix of decent tools and ones and some that border on flimsy. They have smaller batteries...sometimes non-replaceable, and often come with trickle chargers. Black and Decker is a little more fly-by-night, making some real cr_p and some stuff that competes well with Ryobi. Black and Decker also takes some risks and comes out with some real innovative designs.

These tools aren't really designed to be used hours upon hours day after day. Lately, I've seen DeWalt and a couple other companies selling these tools as low end entry models.

Fourth tier (work/business tools): The workmans tools. DeWalts, Ridgid, Milwaukee, Makita, Hitachi, Panasonic...etc. These are the tools designed to be used on the job sites, day after day. They have better and more bushings and bearings. They are often serviceable. They have higher power batteries and metal transmissions and 1 hour chargers.

Fifth tier (specialty/high end): This is the high end stuff. The brands that command very high prices because of their unique niche and name. Freud comes to mind. Snap-on is another one. These are the tools for people who demand a tool that will perform exactly how it claims and will back up the claims with a solid warranty.

My philosophy is to buy the best value for what I do. If I'm only going to be using a tool occasionally, a homeowner model will probably suffice. If I'm going to really work a tool at times, and I don't want to have to replace it every few years...or I want the little extra performance, I'll buy the workman's model.

[Frankiarmz]

Disaster, that was some post! Your education and real life experience are obvious to me and I totally agree with your complete coverage of this issue. When I did work as a fleet mechanic years ago I went through the different phases of buying such things as impact sockets and pry bars from different manufacturers. There was junk that didn't last very long, and better quality like Craftsman and then there was Snap On! When you get to the very top there is a difference, but as you said buy to fit your needs. I know I sometimes buy beyond my needs, but I just hate to buy the same thing two or three times when I could have spent the extra money in the first place. None of my Snap On tools have ever failed, and while many manufacturers offer life time warrantees if you buy the best or better quality you may avoid having to exercise this option. Thanks for that great post.

[Disaster]

...real life experience are obvious to me.....I know I sometimes buy beyond my needs, but I just hate to buy the same thing two or three times when I could have spent the extra money in the first place..............None of my Snap On tools have ever failed, and while many manufacturers offer life time warrantees if you buy the best or better quality you may avoid having to exercise this option.

School of hard knocks, I'm sorry to say.

Here are a couple classes I took.

Bought a cheap Harbor Freight Pancake compressor. It was LOUD!!! and spit out oil but did work...kind of. The next season, when I went to use it again it would barely spin. A motor brush failed. Couldn't get a replacement. Took it to a local motor repair shop. The guy showed me the next 5 things that were going to fail. Carried it to the curb with the trash and bought a Hitachi for twice the price. Runs quiet, doesn't spit oil and has continued to run, like the day I bought it...for 10 years now.

Bought a cheap cordless Black and Decker drill for maybe $50. Had a little plug to charge the internal battery. Always seemed to be dead when I needed it. Trickle charger took 14 hours. Graduated to Ryobi for $125. Clutch failed in a couple years. Bought a second one for $75. It's clutch failed in another year. Bought a Bosch for $175. It was still working (except for one battery that finally gave up the ghost) 10 years later when I sold it on Ebay. Like you said, for the money I spent on the three earlier drills I could have almost bought the Bosch and been done with that nonsense.

Then there was the one that actually worked in my favor. Was looking for an inexpensive car. Had about $10K to spend. Was ready to buy a Ford Escort when I saw a used Mercedes 190 Diesel for around the same price. Sure it was slow as a dog but it was a Mercedes with heated leather seats and I drove that car for the next 6 years putting another 100,000 miles on it (had close to 70K when I bought it.) I only ever replaced the wheel bearings and the key assembly and a fuel tank (but that was because I had gotten bad fuel, with water in it and it rusted the tank.) Still worth $3000 when I got rid of it.

Funny story about Snap-on. I was busting a mechanic at work who would only buy Snap-on about how much cheaper my Craftsman wrenches were than his and they came with a lifetime guarantee too. He said, "Will the guarantee get the stuck nut off for you? If they made them out of Balsa wood, and they didn't work at all what good is the guarantee?" He had a good point which I learned the hard way a few years later while doing a brake job. Snapped 6 Craftsman sockets trying to remove a frozen nut.

[doubtingtom]

No argument with these comments but for me the single product in my short list which is very hard to 'place' in these groupings is the Makita 'Black & White' Kit (Drill/Driver & Impactor). I feel the quality is probably a great fit for my needs. I like the weight and size of both tools. I trust Makita to have done their homework and provided appropriate quality at this price point.

My problem has been that I cannot comfortably consider buying either product 'standalone' ...... due their very seductive 'kit' pricing. I am just too close to the kit price, with either tool choice, to justify not purchasing the kit instead. Once that choice is made, I am faced with the 'quality' tool options available very near that >$270. price class. This precisely why the Milwaukee V18 Kit suddenly became a distraction. This is my 'mind' problem and I accept that I need to 'grow up' and make the best choice I can. I really do not need both of these tools at this time given my existing corded DeWalt drill ... it actually performed quite well for me in the past few weeks driving a couple thousand 3" deck screws. This current decision would be far easier if the project was before me, not just past.

I am now doing tedious trim work with thinner composite boards and the ability to both pre-drill, and drive, screws is a great benefit. Clearly I can do this with almost any tool out there. Then, my concern has been what will be most versatile for years of unknown projects ahead?

Makita B&W looks very attractive. I screwed up my Ridgid 24v Kit purchase and have to let go. Milwaukee 8024-24P kit is very hard to ignore at the current price point. DeWalt is very comfortable, but I really want L-I batts.

Doesn't sound like I've made much progress. It would be far easier if I made my living with these tools ..... this decision would have been made in the first store visit!

Tom B

[Disaster]

I am now doing tedious trim work with thinner composite boards and the ability to both pre-drill, and drive, screws is a great benefit. Clearly I can do this with almost any tool out there. Then, my concern has been what will be most versatile for years of unknown projects ahead?


That is the kind of job that really makes a drill and impact driver pair strut their stuff....especially a lightweight pair so you can carry both with you. I love my Panasonics for these kind of jobs. I either have both of them hanging off my belt or sitting at the top of the ladder. I quickly swap back and forth...from drilling to driving.

That is also one of the HUGE advantages I forgot to mention about the Panasonic over other brand drivers. Most drivers have wayyyyy too much torque than they need. This can be a real problem controlling smaller screws so you don't shear off the heads or bury them too deep. The Panasonic has three "power" levels and very nice control. The lightest setting is perfect for trim work. The heaviest will crank in lag bolts with ease.

[doubtingtom]

Just checked with Coastal Tool and Panasonic would be an outstanding choice .... BUT ... the same 'kit' dilemma. $299. for the L-I Impacr Driver and $349. for the 3 pc Kit. No way I could not take the Drill/Driver and Light for +$50. !!
This just up'd the ante by $100. but really puts everything in a different perspective for the longer haul.

Tom B

[Disaster]

Just checked with Coastal Tool and Panasonic would be an outstanding choice .... BUT ... the same 'kit' dilemma. $299. for the L-I Impacr Driver and $349. for the 3 pc Kit. No way I could not take the Drill/Driver and Light for +$50. !!
This just up'd the ante by $100. but really puts everything in a different perspective for the longer haul.

Tom B

The Panasonic is expensive. Don't know that I would have bought it if the Makita 18 volt kit would have been available for almost $100 less. It certainly isn't a very good deal alone...the kit is what makes the deal...especially having two tools running off the same batteries.

Comes with two hard cases. I like hard cases but wish they would have seen fit to package both tools in one case.

Is the variable torque of the impact worth it? Not sure but I can remember way too many heads sheared off screws before I got it and only one after...and that was a brass one that popped off before the screw bottomed.

They didn't include the light when I bought mine...plus I paid more....something like $365 with a 5% off coupon from Toolup. :-(

[Disaster]

P.S. Panasonic has some loyal followers. They love their Panasonic drills. Check out the reviews at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/B000OWLRPG/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful/102-7161189-6419312?ie=UTF8&n=228013#customerReviews

Some more Lithium tool reviews from "Tools of the Trade."

http://www.bigbuilderonline.com/content/special-reports/LithiumIon.pdf

[firefighter5143]

Hello, I currently own a selection of tools and have some of the same likes and dislikes as you might have. I am just an average home owner, very rarley do I get to break out my vast selction of power tools and accomplish a task. But when I do get to I wanted something that had great power, durabilty but was light weight.

I own the ridgid 18v nicad hammer drill, recip saw, circul. saw, and flash light combo. The set works greats but the weight of the drill and become a little to much especially when trying to do smaller more criticle projects. So I also purchased a 12 volt ridge drill because the 12v battery work in the same charger as my 18v battery. I was happy with that combination until I won a Bosch ps-40 impactor.

The bosch is really a great tool when it comes to small quick projects and it has a pro feel to it. It however doesn't even come close to the speed or power that my 18v has.

After owning all of these tools I plan on keeping my 18v for the big jobs and the Bosch Impactor for the smaller ones. My intentions are to sell my 12 v ridgid. Hopefully this experience will help you decision.

[Frankiarmz]

FireFighter, I have the Ridgid 18 volt set and I also think the tools are great when I need them. Problem is I don't use them often enough to keep the batteries charged without making a special effort to get them in the charger once in a while. That's why I was disappointed when Ridgid came out with the 24 volt lithium that fits the max select tools but not my 18 volt nicad tools. I'm still hoping Ridgid will sell a higher amp hour 18 volt lithium that will fit my tools. I won't have the same problem with the batteries draining between uses and still have the fine power and run time. :D

[doubtingtom]

Hello, I currently own a selection of tools and have some of the same likes and dislikes as you might have. I am just an average home owner .......................
I was happy ..... until I won a Bosch ps-40 impactor.
The Bosch is really a great tool when it comes to small quick projects and it has a pro feel to it. It however doesn't even come close to the speed or power that my 18v has.
After owning all of these tools I plan on keeping my 18v for the big jobs and the Bosch Impactor for the smaller ones. Hopefully this experience will help your decision.

It does ...... I have a sizeable gift card credit at Lowes and they have the Bosch PS-40 Impactor. It would be a great advantage to buy some of my tools there and use the card. No new L-I tools until around Dec 1, I hear.

I must admit that the Panasonic kit has really defined my 'upper limit' choice.

Tom B
EDIT ____ No decision on one comment either way, but there is a user rating on Amazon .com where the user loves the tools, but dropped the tools and had notable damage. Did they make these tools a bit too light? At close to 50% premium compared to other decent alternatives, these Panasonic drills and drivers need to be pretty dang good!

[Disaster]

Agreed. I think Panasonic is good, but don't know if they are good enough to be worth the premium.

On a side note, I picked up the Ryobi Lithium Ion drill and flashlight kit today. This kit comes with the drill, two 2.4Ah batteries, charger and flashlight for $159, if I recall.

I compared it to Ridgid's "compact" 18 volt Lithium Ion drill.

Size: The Ryobi is slightly longer and slightly taller (due to the thicker battery.)

Weight: The Ryobi weighs 4 lbs, 13 ounces, 1 lb, 11 ounces of that battery. The Ridgid weighs 4 lbs, 5 ounces, 1 lb, 1 ounce of that battery.

Chuck: The Ridgid has a name brand Jacobs chuck with plastic body. The Ryobi has an unknown chuck, with plastic body.

Battery: Ridgid 1.5Ah, Ryobi 2.4Ah. Both are compatible with all their previous 18 volt tools.

Charger: Ridgid comes with a Lithium charger that is compatible with the 18 volt Lithium battery and possible other new lower voltage lithium batteries but it is not compatible with the 24 volt lithium or previous generation 18 volt NiCads. Ryobi comes with a Universal charger that is compatible with the older generation 18 volt NiCad batteries. In fact, it is a smarter charger than the previous generation NiCad AC charger, and is kinder to NiCads...thus improving their life. It is considerably lighter and more efficient as well.

Extras: Ridgid comes with an onboard tool light. Ryobi comes with a magnetic tray to hold screws. Both have a tool holder.

[Disaster]

To muddy things up some more. Here are a couple OnePlus reviews.

http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/ryobioneplus.htm

http://www0.epinions.com/content_312485187204

[roadrashray]

To muddy things up some more. Here are a couple OnePlus reviews.

http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/ryobioneplus.htm

http://www0.epinions.com/content_312485187204

Unfortunately both of these reviews are for sets with the old Nicad batteries.

[Disaster]

Unfortunately both of these reviews are for sets with the old Nicad batteries.

Yeah, but the tools are basically the same. Just double the runtime.

[doubtingtom]

This struggle goes on .... the thread has taken several directions, and today a whole new can of works was opened ...... the Makita 6952 was totally unknown to me until now. All the of the corded tools I have seen have been Impact Wrenches, most 1/2 inch. This is only 2.9 lbs, otherwise very competitive with the drivers discussed here, and cost is about $180. Due to home use and unknown 'idle' periods with batts and tools just sitting around, why isn't this a very good alternative? I apologize for not raising this earlier, but I really did not know of it. :o

EDIT .... the Impact Driver portion of this tool choice has risen in importance to where a new Thread seems more appropriate. Since there are not many alternatives to the Makita 6952, this may be a good place to "toss in the towel" ... unless there are some loud and useful comments re. the corded I_Driver.

Tom B

[Frankiarmz]

Unless you plan on having "idle times" in years instead of months, why would you regress to a corded tool? I use my Ridgid 18 volt 1/4 inch impact maybe three to five times a year, and when I do I make sure my batteries (nicads) are charged. My Ridgid is stronger than the corded tool you mentioned and for $449.00 I got the impact, hammerdrill, reciprocating saw, circular saw and flashlight! Now if you are an apartment dweller, then pulling out an extension cord is no big deal but even as a retired man I don't want to waste my time dragging power cords around when I can just pop in a battery and get the job done. You really need to get these cordless tools and use them to appreciate the freedom and convenience, the many uses. Things I use to do painstakingly slow with a hand tool , I can now do in literally seconds. The uses are many working on home projects, appliances, electronics, cars, and no cords. I said earlier I use my 18 volt impact maybe three to five times a year, but thinking back I've used it much more often. Once you own these tools you catch yourself using a 1/4 inch or 3/8 inch ratchet or screw driver or cordless drill and think "Hey, my 1/4 inch impact will make easy work of this task". I respect your caution, prudence to make a wise purchase, but sometimes you just have to take the plunge to enjoy the water for yourself. Good luck.:D

[erngum]

Tom,
You're gonna hate me for this, but check this out, available this month. The Dewalt rep. told me that HD has a short "exclusive" on the line and it will only be available through them:

http://www.toologics.com/Manufacturer_News/DeWalt/Another_First_Look_at_DeWalt%27s_new_Nano_Tools%3A _DC827KL_Impact_Driver_20070925379.html

I suspect the HD price will be around the same as the Makita 3.0 Ah impact ($329), but for now, the stated MSRP is $349. 1330 in./lbs. and weighs 3.7 lbs.

I'd be tempted, but I have no Dewalt cordless tools, and thus will stick with Makita. The Dewalt rep. tried to tell me that Makita only has FOUR lithium tools (a lie). My buddy who was with me (who is a Dewalt loyalist) reminded her that as she stood there, Dewalt had NO 18v lithium tools available:p. She was not a total Dewalt snob though. Before we spoke with her she was actually recommending a Ryobi set to someone after she'd assessed his needs. From what the guy was telling her, that's exactly what he needed and that's what he walked out with. Kudos to her, she could easily have talked that guy into spending $300 more than he needed to.

BTW Tom, my quest for a FOURTH impact driver in the form of a matching Makita lithium "was" on the back burner until you started this post. I will place all blame on you when LOML sees the UPS truck arrive w/#4:D.
Ern

[Disaster]

This struggle goes on .... the thread has taken several directions, and today a whole new can of works was opened ...... the Makita 6952 was totally unknown to me until now......corded tool...

Unless you plan on doing most of your work in a shop, I can't see getting a corded impact. The cordless ones are sooooo convenient...not just because you don't have to pull out a cord....but because you don't have to play the "dance around the cord game." Impacts are the kind of tool you grab fast and use quickly in 30 different spots. Their speed is their main selling point. I can't imagine having to work with a tetherd one.

[doubtingtom]

All the 'corded' points are valid and taken in context. For my case, a key issue is having two tools to avoid changing bits or drills when doing pilot holes and driving screws. My DeWalt corded drill will do one of the tasks so I felt a corded 'partner' was not such a bad choice. No question about the other scenarios and convenience of cordless!

For cordless, Ridgid then becomes a top choice due to high Lithium-Ion batt cost and LSA program. With the R931 Ridgid 3-pc Kit I get the recip saw thrown in for the identical cost of Makita B&W, versus another $119. for a Milwaukee or Bosch. If money was no issue, the Makita B&W Kit is a clear winner. the 1.5 AHr batts are just fine for me and the tool is a great fit for almost everything I am likely to do.

HD did a nice deal and I can repurchase the returned R931 Kit at the previous lower price ... and still get the 'promotional' 14.4v Impact Driver free! Ridgid then threw another 'wet towel' on things and told me they were working on May, 2007 promotional applications. Their initial 8-10 week statement for the Imp Dvr doesn't seem to be very realistic and that is the tool I want the most right now.

Thank-you for repeated guidance and a needed 'wake-up' message here and there. My choices are now in place so I can apply my specific issues and make a sound choice. ;) I better do it quick, 'cause the Christmas promotional deals and new products are about to muddy the water! :p

Regards,
Tom B

[Disaster]

What would be really convenient is a drill with a pop-off head that you could swap between a drill and driver. I've seen a few variations on this theme but none of them were satisfactory.

Panasonic made a combination drill, impact driver. You could switch modes between the two. It was expensive and you still had to switch the drill and driver bit out.

Black and Decker made a drill that had a removable chuck that exposed a 1/4" bit holder. Only problem is that you couldn't keep a bit in the holder and attach the drill chuck. So you had an extra operation of inserting and removing the bit.

There was an infomertial drill sold that had two heads that rotated 180 degrees to choose one or the other. Too bad it was heavy, had poor torque, runtime and had poor build quality (reviewed by Consumers Reports.)

I'd love to see a drill sold with a bare "drive" head. Then as accessories they would include a drill chuck and a 1/4" driver head....maybe even an impact head. You could just swap between the heads...saving you from having to carry two tools. They could sell extra heads so you could keep two or three different drill sizes (for piloting or the like.) Black and Decker has done some innovative stuff close to this, selling tools with multiple cutting and sanding heads.

[doubtingtom]

Makita BTP140 is pretty slick if you have a spare $400. lying around.

[Disaster]

Makita BTP140 is pretty slick if you have a spare $400. lying around.

That is pretty similar to the Panasonic that ties you into using 1/4" hex shank drill bits. Those are expensive and more limited in availability.

[erngum]

Makita BTP140 is pretty slick if you have a spare $400. lying around.


Tom! You haven't decided yet? Go get the Makita $269 set while they last! (flying off the shelves here)

You then have 90 days to decide what you want and the $269 deal is locked in just in case. Just tape the receipt to the box and don't get the tools dirty.

Take them for a short test drive. Opinions can change when you get the tools home. In the past, I've gotten right back in the car to return tools after a short test.

Ern

[doubtingtom]

Tom! You haven't decided yet? Go get the Makita $269 set while they last! (flying off the shelves here)
You then have 90 days to decide what you want and the $269 deal is locked in just in case. J.....................
Ern

This Kit has been right at the top of my shortlist since the beginning. I handled the Impact Driver (at HD) and saw what it does into steel and with larger bolts ..... very impressive! The size and weight seem to be ideal for my needs.

I have since realized :o that my indecision problem has been a 'minimal' need for a recip saw and its inclusion in the Ridgid 24v 3pc kit at the same $269. price point. Mixed up in this conundrum is the fact that it really takes the huskier (3 AHr ... preferably 24v) batt to run the saw effectively. Tossing the saw into the mix just adds too many variables.

The B&W Makita Kit is an excellent choice.

Thanks,
Tom B

[erngum]

The B&W Makita Kit is an excellent choice.

If you get it, I'm sure you'll be satisfied. OK now I'm jealous:p I don't have the impact driver yet. Time to order the bare tool from Amazon:D

And about the recip. saw; I have a Ryobi cordless recip. saw. I have used it for pruning trees but I have yet to get my $49 dollars out of it in the two years I've had it:mad:.

Ern

[doubtingtom]

If you get it, I'm sure you'll be satisfied. ..............
And about the recip. saw; I have a Ryobi cordless recip. saw. I have used it for pruning trees but I have yet to get my $49 dollars out of it in the two years I've had it:mad:. Ern

Pretty much decided on a 'low-end' for the recip since my needs are like yours .... very limited pruning and some exterior 'cut-off' tasks. The Ryobi is one choice and no more than the $99. DeWalt at the upper extreme.

Regards,
Tom B

[Disaster]

And about the recip. saw; I have a Ryobi cordless recip. saw. I have used it for pruning trees but I have yet to get my $49 dollars out of it in the two years I've had it:mad:.


IMHO, the Ryobi OnePlus reciprocating saw is one of the worst tools in the OnePlus lineup. It is shakes the bejabbers out of you, has a sloppy blade mount that will fail...just a matter of time, and so-so power. I didn't use mine very much either. I think one of the issues with the OnePlus lineup is Ryobi tries to make everything under a certain price...say $100...but they really shoot for $30-$50. You can't make a decent reciprocating saw for that kind of money.

On the other hand, I've already used my Ridgid reciprocating saw more than I ever used the Ryobi. Used it to hack out a recessed light box that was built into wall. Used it to prune branches off a Maple tree. Used it to clean up and section a fallen willow tree.

I good reciprocating saw, with a good blade (like the Skil Ugly blade) can rip through wood nearly as fast as a chain saw...but it does it quieter and cleaner with way less saw dust to deal with afterwards.

A good reciprocating saw is nice to have...but definitely isn't going to get a lot of use unless you do a lot of demoing....which I'm guessing, as a retired person and not a contractor, you won't.

[erngum]

Tom,
Your quest has influenced me to compliment my Makita compact drill with the compact impact driver set. I bit the bullet and got the full kit w/ batteries and charger because even though I rarely use them, I prefer to have the case. Besides, the two batteries are cheaper to get w/ the kit than to buy a pair for $117 on Amazon, plus the bare tool for $99 and no charger. I blamed it all on you when I told LOML what I bought:D. My Ryobi 18v NiCd will be relegated to spare/loaner when the UPS truck arrives on Tuesday.

Disaster,
I also have the old Homelite (same as the current Ryobi) tree pruner. It works great w/ an Ugly blade. I did hear that the new green Ryobi recip. saw seems better.

[roadrashray]

This Kit has been right at the top of my shortlist since the beginning. I handled the Impact Driver (at HD) and saw what it does into steel and with larger bolts ..... very impressive! The size and weight seem to be ideal for my needs.

I have since realized :o that my indecision problem has been a 'minimal' need for a recip saw and its inclusion in the Ridgid 24v 3pc kit at the same $269. price point. Mixed up in this conundrum is the fact that it really takes the huskier (3 AHr ... preferably 24v) batt to run the saw effectively. Tossing the saw into the mix just adds too many variables.

The B&W Makita Kit is an excellent choice.

Thanks,
Tom B
The Ryobi recip saw is junk. With HD giving you the Ridgid 3pc set at the original sale price and by taking advantage of the two current offers for a free 14.4 impact driver and a free MaxSelect Hand Planer you cannot find a better value for you're needs.
Stop the chattin and get to buyin...Ray

[Disaster]

I also have the old Homelite (same as the current Ryobi) tree pruner. It works great w/ an Ugly blade. I did hear that the new green Ryobi recip. saw seems better.

I have the Ryobi version, along with the hedge trimmer and sprayer. I recommend all three. I wouldn't recommend it to a tree removal contractor, but for a homeowner, such as myself, who does a little annual cleanup, it is great.

[erngum]

I have the Ryobi version, along with the hedge trimmer and sprayer. I recommend all three. I wouldn't recommend it to a tree removal contractor, but for a homeowner, such as myself, who does a little annual cleanup, it is great.

I've got those too:D. The outdoor gadgets are the only thing keeping me attached to Ryobi cordless. Otherwise it's Makita and Bosch for me.

Ern

[doubtingtom]

Tom,
Your quest has influenced me to compliment my Makita compact drill with the compact impact driver set. I bit the bullet and got the full kit w/ batteries and charger because even though I rarely use them, I prefer to have the case. Besides, the two batteries are cheaper to get w/ the kit than to buy a pair for $117 on Amazon, plus the bare tool for $99 and no charger. I blamed it all on you when I told LOML what I bought:D. .........

Congrats on your addition! These tools seem to be a superb pair and complement each other very nicely.

I have just this week-end identified my likely next project which is tied closely to the new composite decks. My material source was ChoiceDek and I hear they may be very close to a new product announcement ..... composite fencing. I like this material very much and have something over 150 ft of perimeter to enclose. I could start fairly soon, but material availability may delay things. An Impact Driver is my highest priority and I doubt Ridgid's promotional tool would reach me in time .... especially based on theri recent telephone comment that they are now working on May, 2007 LSA and promotional requests. Earlier I refocused on Makita, with lighter weight and smaller size as important criteria. The B&W Kit would be superb for the new project and the corded 6952 is also very attractive.

I expect to see some posts when you receive the new treasure ......

Regards,
Tom B

[erngum]

Tom,
Will do... if I can figure out how to post photos. It should be hear Tues. Along with about a dozen or so Christmas gifts. The UPS guy calls me "Mr. Amazon". I think he hates me:rolleyes:.

BTW, I have seen the composite fence material at HD but I only saw one color. I do not recall the pricing, but it can't be any better or worse than the cost of the decking. Did you get the right angle impact?

Ern

[doubtingtom]

Tom,
Will do... if I can figure out how to post photos. It should be hear Tues.
BTW, I have seen the composite fence material at HD but I only saw one color. I do not recall the pricing, but it can't be any better or worse than the cost of the decking. Did you get the right angle impact? Ern

I estimate about $130. per 6ft section not counting concrete and other post prep costs. A rough estimate is over 1800 screws for fence boards and another 300 for rail-to-post pieces. I hope whatever driver I pick is up to the job!

HD tool guy talked me into a Milwaukee 'angle' attachment which he even uses with his Impact Driver (not the right-angle kit, but much smaller and a fixed configuration ... ~$20.).

Tom B

[Disaster]

HD tool guy talked me into a Milwaukee 'angle' attachment which he even uses with his Impact Driver (not the right-angle kit, but much smaller and a fixed configuration ... ~$20.).

Tom B

How much does he really use the Milwaukee angle attachment? They generally aren't designed for the huge impact torques and don't last long when used that way.

Note their "heavy duty" RA is only rated for 235 in-lbs.

http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-49-22-8510-4-Inch-Drive-Attachment/dp/B000BYEJ02

Their lighter duty screw head is rated for an even lower 100 in-lbs.

http://www.toolbarn.com/product/milwaukee/48-32-2100/

Consider that most impact drivers are over 1000 in-lbs and you have a recipe for disaster.

It isn't just right angles that can have a problem with impact but lots of bits that aren't designed for it. For example, you often will see hex extension drivers with the hex bit pressed onto the shaft. These usually don't last long on an impact driver. Even driver bits can get chewed up a lot faster on an impact.

[plumbmaster]

QOUTE: My current choices are: Ridgid 24v L-I Hammer Drill

PERSONALLY I DONT RECOMMEND THIS TOOL UNLESS ALL YOUR GOING TO BE DOING IS SCREWING SOMETHING < NO PUN INTENDED

I'VE BEEN THRU TWO OF THESE ALREADY, THE MOTORS LIKE TO SET THEMSELVES ONFIRE, EVEN THOUGH A DEDICATED FUNCTION OF THE DRILL IS HAMMER, WHICH IT DOES DO NICELY. BUT DRILLING INTO STUDS OR DRILLING HEAVY LUMBER CAUSES THE DRILL TO STRUGGLE AND SEIZE SETTING IT ABLAZE.

YOUR FRIENDS WILL ENJOY THE FIREWORKS SHOW FROM THE MOTOR VENT HOLES, HOWEVER THE ACRID SMELL AND SMOKE WILL IMPREGNATE YOUR NOSTRILS AND MAKE FOR A BAD COMPANION

YOURS IN FIREWORK SHOWS

PLUMBMASTER

INLANDVALLEYPLUMBING.COM

[doubtingtom]

QOUTE: My current choices are: Ridgid 24v L-I Hammer Drill

PERSONALLY I DONT RECOMMEND THIS TOOL UNLESS ALL YOUR GOING TO BE DOING IS SCREWING SOMETHING < NO PUN INTENDED

I'VE BEEN THRU TWO OF THESE ALREADY, THE MOTORS LIKE TO SET THEMSELVES ONFIRE, EVEN THOUGH A DEDICATED FUNCTION OF THE DRILL IS HAMMER, WHICH IT DOES DO NICELY. BUT DRILLING INTO STUDS OR DRILLING HEAVY LUMBER CAUSES THE DRILL TO STRUGGLE AND SEIZE SETTING IT ABLAZE.

YOUR FRIENDS WILL ENJOY THE FIREWORKS SHOW FROM THE MOTOR VENT HOLES, HOWEVER THE ACRID SMELL AND SMOKE WILL IMPREGNATE YOUR NOSTRILS AND MAKE FOR A BAD COMPANION

YOURS IN FIREWORK SHOWS

PLUMBMASTER

INLANDVALLEYPLUMBING.COM

Just what I need! ..... sparks, smoke and fire when an important 'drilling' project is at hand .... :D Actually, this is the lowest prioirity tool in the Kit, for me, but I was overwhelmed with the sale price and promotion. Now that my focus is clearly on the Impact Driver (and some on the Recip Saw), I see other choices which are better both now and in the longer haul. Right now, Makita seems to have the edge with more than one good driver in their offerings. I know the other guys will catch up soon, but a purchase right now goes to Makita (driver) and Milwaukee (recip saw).

Keep something nearby to cool that tool !! ;) ..... especially in those high winds down there !

Tom B

[doubtingtom]

How much does he really use the Milwaukee angle attachment? They generally aren't designed for the huge impact torques and don't last long when used that way. <edit> ........................

Thanks .... I took some of his comments as being a bit overstated, but if I can get just these 20-30 deck screws drilled and driven, under the tight rock overhang, it will be money well spent. I will use my DeWalt corded drill and minimize any strain on the Milwaukee Attachment as I go.

Regards,
Tom B

[Jay6]

Have you seen the new Milwaukee compact Tools? V18 compact 2601-22 (http://www.ohiopowertool.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=2601-22) has been really popular and the 12V compact 2401-22 (http://www.ohiopowertool.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=2401-22) (it does look like a toy) can beat most 14.4V NiCd in power and battery life.

Also for $299 you can get the V18 Hammer Drill 0824-24 (http://www.ohiopowertool.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=0824-24)and V18 Impact Driver 0881-20. These lithium Ion tools are top of the line and will blow away pretty much all the other 18 volts.

[doubtingtom]

Have you seen the new Milwaukee compact Tools? V18 compact 2601-22 (http://www.ohiopowertool.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=2601-22) has been really popular and the 12V compact 2401-22 (http://www.ohiopowertool.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=2401-22) (it does look like a toy) can beat most 14.4V NiCd in power and battery life.

Also for $299 you can get the V18 Hammer Drill 0824-24 (http://www.ohiopowertool.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=0824-24)and V18 Impact Driver 0881-20. These lithium Ion tools are top of the line and will blow away pretty much all the other 18 volts.

Looked at the Kit and with additional 'local' 10% off it is impressive ... but heavy stuff! The other local HD got in another new Kit adding the Recip Saw at $399. If I got 10% there also, that would be ~$360. but still husky stuff for my needs. The Compact tools look good, but no Impact Driver yet. I assume it will be coming along very shortly. The smaller 12v implementation will likely be a good step up from Bosch at 10.8v and maybe an ideal size.

Regards,
Tom B

[Frankiarmz]

Tom, I know you are a smart man and trying to buy with your needs in mind
but sometimes it's hard to anticipate what lies ahead. I would rather have a heavy duty tool and not need it all the time, than be left with only lighter duty when a serious task arises. I could see buying the lighter duty tool or equipment if there was a significant difference in price, operating expense, or maintenance, but here you have the opportunity to buy strong tools that will stand up to any homeowner work you may need to do so don't leave yourself at a loss buy once and buy right.;)

[Disaster]

Just what I need! ..... sparks, smoke and fire when an important 'drilling' project is at hand.

No disrespect meant to Plumbmaster but I've never heard anyone else report of these problems with the 24v line. In fact, I've found the current protection on the batteries to be a little too conservative. I had the drill catch a couple times and flat out die. Had to put the battery back in the charger to "awaken" it.

In general, you should never let a power tool lug...it really strains the motor and battery. Make sure your drill is in the lowest gear available and back off the force a bit if it starts to slow way down on full power.

Having said that, IMHO, all tools should have overload protection (though I know this is not the case with most.) It really isn't very expensive to have a current or temperature cutoff switch.

Speaking of the Milwaukee tools, in two different Consumer Reports tests, they fried the V28 drill motor. In the second test, they said Milwaukee had told them they had "fixed" the issue but the new drill they bought failed just like the older one. I haven't heard the same issue with the V18 line.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

I think someone mentioned on here a while ago that it still happens with the V28 drill. It sounds like you'd really have to be abusing it for that to happen.

[doubtingtom]

Tom, I know you are a smart man and trying to buy with your needs in mind but sometimes it's hard to anticipate what lies ahead. I would rather have a heavy duty tool and not need it all the time, than be left with only lighter duty when a serious task arises. I could see buying the lighter duty tool or equipment if there was a significant difference in price, operating expense, or maintenance, but here you have the opportunity to buy strong tools that will stand up to any homeowner work you may need to do so don't leave yourself at a loss buy once and buy right.;)

Your comments are precisely why the indecision and 'nagging' revisit to Ridgid 24v and Milwaukee V18 Kits. It's hard to imagine future needs which these kits would not meet. That is also why the 'corded' alternative has risen on my list. The cost is very attractive, weight is lower due to elimination of (larger) batteries, and I do not sacrifice tool quality. I can do the Makita 6952 Impact Driver for ~$185., Milwaukee Recip Saw for ~$120. and deal with a heavier drill need later (given my existing DeWalt 3/8" corded drill). I need power at my 'main' workstation site anyway for my worm-drive Skil Circ Saw. Also, I did not find a cordless Jigsaw to my liking and went with the Bosch 1590EVS corded tool.

Whether it's this purchase cycle or later next year, I think the cordless Makita B&W Kit or perhaps the imminent Milwaukee contender will be an ideal 'convenience' pair.

Tom B

[Disaster]

...I would rather have a heavy duty tool and not need it all the time, than be left with only lighter duty when a serious task arises.

With my apologies to Frank, and because I am enjoying seeing all this played out in Tom's mind (guess I owe him an apology as well) I'm going to play Devil's advocate.

The reality is we don't need many tools...probably way less than we buy. As you get heavier duty tools, that you need less often, it becomes more cost effective to rent them. How many people out there own a bulldozer? I actually know someone and he said the purchase was justified because of all the work he did with it. Yeah right.

A hammer drill is for one thing. Chewing into concrete and stone. It is something that the average homeowner probably won't be doing very often. Or maybe you will. Heck, I drilled in concrete, cinder blocks and brick long before I owned a hammer drill....probably more than I have since I've owned one. The job certainly would have gone faster with one....but the drill I had eventually got the job done.

On the other hand, if you are like me, you will find yourself reaching for a drill fairly often...for this project or that. But when you do, how much drill do you need? How much do you want to haul around?

Impacts are another tool that could go in the nice to have category. I installed my entire deck without one. However, now that I have one I love it.

Bottom line, if you are a tool geek by all means use whatever rationalization you can to buy whatever tool you can. I do. That is why I have 7 or 8 drills last time I counted...including two of the very seldom used hammerdrills.

Otherwise, take a long hard look at the renting vs. owning equation. You may find you have a lot more money in your pocket at the end of the day.

[erngum]

I would tend to agree w/ Disaster. For instance, I bought the right angle impact to get myself out of a bind on a project. It is a great tool, but 99% of the time it is a paperweight. For Tom's project he'd most likely be best served with a decent drill and the right angle adapter to drill pilot holes then drive the screws with a regular drill/driver.

When I first got back into woodworking/home improvement, I thought I needed every cordless gadget out there, and the biggest and baddest at that. But time has shown what my needs are and nowadays, the only cordless tools I seem to use regularly are a drill and an impact (we'll leave the cordless lawn/garden stuff out for now:D). I just ordered that new Makita impact (because I wanted, not needed it). The truth is that my tiny 10.8v impact will see much more use than the Makita ever will.

My greatest frustration is that I know exactly which tools "I want". But prudence (and LOML) dictate that I stick to what "I need". I should write a book about being a tool junkie, the book would include an integrated lithium powered LED light:rolleyes:... with a 6 Ah battery and radio/charger... yeah, that would be the bomb.
Ern

[Frankiarmz]

Disaster, I'm guilty of being a "Tool Junkie" in case you haven't guessed by now. I'm actually laughing as I read your post because today I had to drill a 1/64 hole through 1/16 plastic on a car dashboard, my drill of choice? Ridgid 18 volt hammerdrill! Call it overkill, but if that dash was 1/4 steel I would have been prepared.I have a bad back among many bad body parts and if I can get a tool to make my life easier I do. That's only part of my excuse to owning so many tools, truth is I like tools, corded, cordless, air, OH! what a thrill to own a compressor. Sure I didn't need to trade my 10" Bosch sliding compound for my buddies 12" Dewalt, but you never know when you might want to miter a few 2x10's. If I lived close enough to Tom I'd grab him by the neck and we would get him that 24 volt Ridgid set, heck I might have gotten him worked up enough to buy the Dewalt 36 volt. The guys retired and the heavier tools will keep him in shape. Please stop trying to have him buy some wimpy, girlieman tools, real men have hernias. Take care.:D

[erngum]

The guys retired and the heavier tools will keep him in shape. Please stop trying to have him buy some wimpy, girlieman tools, real men have hernias. Take care.:D

I'd just put some ankle weights on my Makita:p;):D

Ern

[Disaster]

...today I had to drill a 1/64 hole through 1/16 plastic on a car dashboard, my drill of choice......

You know the crazy thing, tough for us toolaholics to understand, is doing a job and not having to decide which drill to use because you only have one...or maybe none...maybe you borrow one from a neighbor.

Seriously, I have more than one friend who doesn't even own a drill!!! GASP!!!

Somehow, they've managed to live their whole lifes without buying one!

Me, I decide between the Ryobi 3 speed hammerdrill, Ryobi RA, Ryobi 2 speed, Ryobi 2 speed lithium, Panasonic 14.4v, Ridgid 18v hammerdrill, Ridgid 24v hammerdrill, B&D 14.4v lithium, Skil 7.6v lithium, B&D 7.4v versapack, or Bosch T-handle corded drill.

Thankfully, my choices are less confusing because I no longer have to worry about the Bosch 12v because I just sold it on Ebay, the Makita 18v...likewise, or the Ridgid compact 18v...returned to HD.

The sad thing is I probably forgot a drill or two when typing that.

The first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem.....

[Frankiarmz]

Problem, what problem? Those guys who don't own a drill have the problem, losers. Heck, I have a flock of big chains saws and I don't even have any trees left on my property. I keep them just in case CT gets hit with a hurricane. I recently got rid of a few tools on E-Bay, Hilti TE5, Ingersoll Rand 8053, hurts to even think about it. Now that we've established "We" don't have a problem, let's turn our attention back to Tom! What's it gonna take to get this guy down to Home Depot and Man up to some seriously unnecessary tools? Tom needs to get off that fence and make a choice, it's either join the elite who are prepared for anything or be one of those guys looking to borrow a real tool because he bought something light and fluffy. Make us proud Tom, 24 or 36 volt nothing less will do. If anyone asks why you needed a 36 volt three speed hammerdrill to hang eight by ten picture frames, tell them if they have to ask they would not understand.:D

[Woussko]

This has me laughing at the poster I see in a local tool rental yard. If you have a few small bushes to plant, which of these do you really want/need to make use of? Please see both pictures and you'll get the idea. Now if you needed to plant a few big trees then you might want to think about this some.

No one tool or set of tools will do all jobs well so sometimes we need more than just one of a given type of tool and to select the one best suited for the job at hand.

[Disaster]

Heck, I have a flock of big chains saws and I don't even have any trees left on my property.

I could probably count the guys who actually own a chainsaw on one hand in my neighborhood. Yes, I'm one of them. Heck, half my neighbors don't even own mowers. They have a lawn service. We live in an age where people can tell you all kinds of info about the latest stock market darling or the latest mp3 player but couldn't light a fire without box of matches and a can of lighter fluid.

I recall one visit by a neighbor where she was amazed I'd installed an overhead fan...like that was rocket science. "Oh, my husband could never do something like that." She said. These are the people that call the plumber when the flap on their toilet starts leaking.

[Frankiarmz]

Disaster, I live in one of those neighborhoods although through a turnover there are now a couple of hands on guys. I remember having a few of the wives impressed with how handy I was around my property and home, and one of them asked if I could give her husband some handyman tips. He was quick to point out once we were out of her hearing range that he had no intention of ever using "Tools", his spare time was spent playing golf or watching sports! I get a good feeling from being a helpful neighbor in a pinch, but some of the folks will try and take advantage if I let them. I laugh when we have a power failure and few of these rather wealthy business types have a flashlight, is it that difficult to prepare for such and event? I have a propane Coleman camping stove and a few other things that allow me to weather the weather. I've been joking on these boards but I take the safety, comfort and welfare of my family and myself seriously. I think any man who loves his family should own a chainsaw and extreme power tools (Tom). :D

[doubtingtom]

Woussko ...... I want that 1st (pic) tool for my next desert shrubs!

My addiction seems to be finding more options ... NOT necessarily owning them ...:o

One local HD just got in 2 Milwaukee kits (0920-24) $399. with almost everything I want. They will also do 10% ... given the current HD on-line offer. IN ADDITION ... Milwaukee is offering a Free Tool mail-in deal, with these kits, where one can choose either an extra V18 Batt, an Impact Driver, or a Job-site Radio. Just when I was ready to jump, I saw Amazon's listing for the 0920-29 Kit (includes Circ Saw) for $435. including shipping. It also qualifies for the Free Tool.

Since I have not 'jumped on' either super deal, my addiction seems clear .... I get really pumped up on these deals, but don't really NEED the tools .... like some helpful, earlier posters. :D ..... but I still keep looking at Amazon's deal.

The Impact Driver OR 2nd Drill/Driver are not critical but would really make my trim work more efficient. The Recip Saw is an overkill but useful for the 'infrequent' thorny shrub pruning. The rest are like all the other stuff on the 'eat-all-you-want' buffet spread since the 'Kits' offer so much for so little more. [[ What I can justify costs ~$300. but I get so much more for ~$400. ]]

Apologies for all the 'non-helpful' b-s, but maybe some will benefit from he Amazon.com info above.

Tom B

[Disaster]

Just when I was ready to jump, I saw Amazon's listing for the 0920-29 Kit (includes Circ Saw) for $435. including shipping. It also qualifies for the Free Tool.

I would jump on that deal.

In fact, I'm tempted to sell the rest of my Ridgid tools on Ebay and move over to Milwaukee.

I'd miss the 24v sabre saw but I bet Milwaukee eventually offers one.

The main thing that attracts me to Milwaukee is the availability of accessories like batteries. With Milwaukee you aren't captive to the whims of Home Depot's tool stocking managers.

[erngum]

Tom,
The fact that you are on this forum alone indicates that you have "the gene". So no matter what you get initially, it really does not matter. You WILL end up adding to the arsenal. Resistance is FUTILE. I know this from experience So, you might as well jump in and get your feet wet:D.

Here is how I manage my addiction:
1. Just buy it.
2. Hide it in the shop.
3. When tool is sighted by LOML, claim to have had it for months.

Ern

[erngum]

Waaa Hooooo!
DHL just delivered my Makita Impact! See ya guys, be out in the shop:D.

Ern

[doubtingtom]

Waaa Hooooo!
DHL just delivered my Makita Impact! See ya guys, be out in the shop:D.
Ern

Well ??? ......... I trust the new driver did all you expected. I now feel this is the clear leader in this class of tools with the Bosch PS 20/40 for for lighter, smaller situations and Milwaukee Kits for really husky needs.

My choice revolves around the recip saw and Milwaukee 0920-24 for a battery solution or the Makita B&W pair if saw can be corded.

Good luck with your new 'toy'!

Tom B

[erngum]

Well ??? ......... I trust the new driver did all you expected. I now feel this is the clear leader in this class of tools with the Bosch PS 20/40 for for lighter, smaller situations and Milwaukee Kits for really husky needs.

My choice revolves around the recip saw and Milwaukee 0920-24 for a battery solution or the Makita B&W pair if saw can be corded.

Good luck with your new 'toy'!

Tom B


Wow!
Previously, my only experience actually using an impact was the Ryobi 18v, and Ridgid 12v right angle. The Makita will actually drill most of a 3/8" hole through a 2x4 without the impact mechanism engaging. I was surprised.

The balance is incredible. I was comparing it to my PS40 and although the Makita is actually a tad heavier. The Makita actually feels lighter than the Bosch when in use. This is because the Bosch is top heavy due to the tiny battery, and metal housing. The Makita feels totally neutral in your hand. The Makita also fits nicely in the Bosch holster I got w/ the PS40.

OK Tom,
Your turn to tell us about what ya got!:D
Ern

[doubtingtom]

Wow! ....... <edit>
The balance is incredible. I was comparing it to my PS40 and although the Makita is actually a tad heavier. The Makita actually feels lighter than the Bosch when in use. This is because the Bosch is top heavy due to the tiny battery, and metal housing. The Makita feels totally neutral in your hand.
OK Tom,
Your turn to tell us about what ya got!:D
Ern
------------------------------
Hang in there .... it's very close now. Your PS40-2 comments are very relevant as it was quite high behind the B&W Makita. Dollars no longer count since my two remaining choices are within $48. of each other.

Milwaukee 0920-24 Kit or Makita B&W Kit + Ridgid corded Recip Saw. No question that I will enjoy USING the Makita pair ... no question that I get a 'ton' of great 'interchangeable' cordless tools with Milwaukee. The likely hernia gets no value points.:rolleyes:

[erngum]

Hey Tom,
I was in HD today, and I saw that they still have a few of those promotional Makita AVT recip. saws with free angle grinder. I believe it was $179. Your store(s) may have a few left.

Here's a link for the saw:

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-JR3070CT-Amp-Reciprocating-Saw/dp/B0009OR92E/ref=sr_1_1/002-2488976-6884840?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1193278959&sr=1-1

They are supposed to be one of the smoothest running sawzalls out there.

Ern

[doubtingtom]

Hey Tom,
I was in HD today, and I saw that they still have a few of those promotional Makita AVT recip. saws with free angle grinder. I believe it was $179. Your store(s) may have a few left.
They are supposed to be one of the smoothest running sawzalls out there.
Ern

A deal like that would definitely work ... have not seen this at either local store or HD online, but will definitely doublecheck tomorrow. The corded Milwaukee 6520-21 was on my list at $149. so $30. more for the grinder adds a little incentive and the Makita may be a better saw as well.

Thanks for the info.
Tom B

[workerbob]

The Makita Recip-Saw in the pack at HD for $179 is the best Recip-saw I have ever used. I picked it up because it was a great deal and had the free grinder. I read that the Anti vibration they used on it really helped and man did it ever. The Recip is heavy-duty not and gives much less vibration back to my hands than other saws I have used. I liked my Milwuakee because they have always made the best Sawzalls. I was surprised that this Makita was much easier to use and had less vibration for me than my Milwaukee.

[doubtingtom]

Neither of my local HD's (or Lowes) have any Makita Recip Saws except in a few kits.

My exhaustive (and exhausting) search is complete and the choices certainly surprise me ....... One (1) Ridgid R3001 Corded Recip Saw and One (1) R86006 18V L-I Drill/Driver.

This has drawn out so long (and many posts) that the supporting detail has been covered in 'tidbits' throughout this Thread and need not be repeated. Ridgid's product offerings met my needs best, pricing was excellent, and the LSA had a dominant effect. I am very content with these choices and most appreciative of the many helpful comments since my initial post. I could not be so comfortable with the outcome without so many perspectives covering the range of potential choices.

Sincere thanks and best regards,
Tom B :)

[Jay6]

You can't go wrong with Milwaukee they coined the term "Sawzall" and have been building these things for a long time. The quality is also top shelf. That being said you can get the base model 10 amp corded model 6509-22 for $129.60.

http://www.ohiopowertool.com/item-detail.cfm?&ID=6509-22

[Woussko]

A 6509 for $129.60 ... Why pay that for one when I can get a factory reconditioned one (most are new with a ding or two and don't need any fixing) for $99.95 plus shipping.
http://www.powertoolservices.com/Tools/6509-22.htm

Sorry Jay but you'll have to do a little better. I bet a few forum members will show me up with better yet deals.

[Newman]

You can get the 6509-22 for $109 new at Depot. You can find it online for $90-100 new, so why buy recon for $100?!

[MrToolman]

The Milwaukee Sawzall line is the cream pf the crop in sawall saws. Simply built to take abuse,just examine the 10 and 13AMP units,they look like tanks and perform the part.

I have a large Makita 15AMP SVT sawall,tyhe 13AMP Milwaukee beats the Makita in toughness and performance.And the big Makita is no whimp.

For corded circular saws,sawall or drills Milwaukee is very high quality and extreme durability.

Makes the competition look like toys...no Ryobi for sure. ;)

[workerbob]

My Makita JR3070 Recip saw destroys anything Milwuakee has out right now. I tried both at the store and even did some speed tests. The Anti vibration technology that the Makita has really works to reduce the vibration. I couldn't believe it until I tried it.

[Disaster]

My Makita JR3070 Recip saw destroys anything Milwuakee has out right now. I tried both at the store and even did some speed tests. The Anti vibration technology that the Makita has really works to reduce the vibration. I couldn't believe it until I tried it.

Good to know. Also good to know is the Makita cordless LXT reciprocating saw is an underpowered piece of junk.

[canucksartech]

......... You jumped into the middle of the great Ridgid 1.5Ah battery controversy throwing opinions in every direction. You jumped on the Ridgid professional dissers bandwagon. You claimed to have made momentous decisions based upon input from those two threads. You're posts indicate an articulate intelligent man. Were you really making decisions from threads that were being run by a couple of professional complainers? Did you notice that the entire responding audiance was approximately twenty by the posts to their own surveys?

Ouch. That seems like it was a bad day. Glad that I was away on vacation.

Did you notice that the largest number of responces to the "battery survey" were from users who were going to keep their drills regardless of the mistakes made by Ridgid?

Ummm.....wrong?

Yowzers.

[canucksartech]

Tom,
The fact that you are on this forum alone indicates that you have "the gene". So no matter what you get initially, it really does not matter. You WILL end up adding to the arsenal. Resistance is FUTILE. I know this from experience So, you might as well jump in and get your feet wet:D.

Here is how I manage my addiction:
1. Just buy it.
2. Hide it in the shop.
3. When tool is sighted by LOML, claim to have had it for months.

Ern

LMAO!!!! Best. Post. Ever.

Sadly, your honor, I must confess to the crime. I am regrettably a 2nd generation offender. Addiction, it seems, must truely be genetic. I'm sorry to everyone - I've had my addiction so well contained by the 3 steps described, that I never thought anything of it. *sobs* I'm so sorry to my wife and everyone I've hurt. I'll never do it again! *wiping away tears* Unless there's a really great sale again. But that's it, I swear on my mother's grave. No, your honor, she's not dead, but one day she might be. So I've got time to change!

LOL.