franklie
10-26-2007, 04:35 PM
There have been several threads that contained good information about stainless steel in various applications so I thought that compiling a list of where the relevant threads were would be a good idea. that way people from the different trades who have questions about the material could easily locate the information in 1 location.
If you have additional information that you would like to add feel free to post it in this thread.
from this thread http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13741
there are the following quotes
I prefer not to use stainless steel braided (Watts & ProFlo), because I've seen too many burst lines in the past. The SS braids tend to rust in cabinets with household cleansers stored in them. Almost every single customer has an open can of Ajax or Comet under their sink, or an open box of SOS pads. I've noticed where ever the SS line has a loop in it, is where it bursts. The tension from the loop splits the rusted braids on the outer side, then the rubber hose ruptures. Usually you can't see if they are rusting because it's dark in the cabinet and the loops are usually behind the sink.
Because of this I was one of the last Die Hards to use C.P. tubing with the prick head and my tubing bender......I have evolved in the last 2 years,
Now I use BrassCraft Polymer Braided supply lines, which used to be SS braided originally. I feel that it's a better braided line which is more resistant to those under sink chemicals.
For Dishwashers the part #'s are:
B1 - 72 DWF -----3/8" compression both ends - 72" long
BL3 - 72 DWF ----1/2" compression both ends - 72" longFor Ice Makers the part #'s are:
B0 - 60 IM -----1/4" compression both ends - 60" long
These also come in 72, 84, 96, and 120 inches long as wellIf you are gonna install a Bosch dishwasher (easiest to level & plumb by the way), you definitely will need a flexible line.
I have done it with 3/8" copper tubing and a bender (<----my die hard days,LOL) but it is a ROYAL P.I.A.
Tracy
Keep in mind standard kitchen cleaning supplys will cause a SS supply to fail. Many of the manufacturers are switching to a mylar which looks like SS because of this.
Mark
from this thread http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11506&page=2
Good info. I think a lot of people mistakingly assume stainless steel is harder and stronger than carbon steel. This is often not the case. One of the biggest difficulties, working with stainless is that it work hardens. This makes it difficult to form. The 305 stainless used to make screws is purposely designed to allow formability. It sacrifices strength for this. Some of the coatings they have developed for carbon screws are pretty incredible. One might be better off, using coated carbon, vs. stainless...especially if you end up having to overdrill the whole and coat each stainless fastener with lubricant.
This same thing is true with knife blades. I've talked to many people that think because it says "stainless" on a knife blade they are getting a great quality blade. Don't count on it. Most of the cheap knifes with "stainless" blades use cheap stainless that is easy to form...which makes it a terrible material for a knife blade. I knife needs to be made from a steel that can be edge hardened so the sharpness will last.
you mention that you are using ASTM 305? screws. This is an almost unknown, and definately never used alloy in Europe. It doesn't even have an SS (Swedish Standard) Nr. The mixture, 18.12 is using more Nickel, and less Chrome than 316, to up the corrosion resistance. When the nickel is "out of balance" with the chrome, you get an undesired brittle alloy.
Your problem will be less using 304, or 316 depending on the required corrosion resistance.
However VASandy and CWSmith are on the right track, avoid using impact drivers on stainless, as it "work hardens". Use all the torque you want, that way Stainless is amazingly strong.
Sorry Disaster, it was your answer I was refering to! As regards Knife blades, you are right on. Normal stainless is useless for this. Knifeblade stainless otherwise known as "Martensitic" Stainless Steel, contains carbon, to enable hardening. Carbon is usually a No-No in stainless, as it causes intercrystaline corrosion. As a rule, good Martensitic comes from France or Switzerland. The percentages in a succesfull Martensitic alloy are down to 1/1000, and are of course, closely guarded secrets.
Having said this, some of the finest Martensitic blades are from the USA, Buck Knife for example. I assume that the steel is US made. It would be nice to know if this was the case.
from this thread http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13655&page=3
If you use stainless steel bolts make sure that the bolts are NOT in contact with anything rusty. A stainless steel bolt in contact with rust can begin to rust as well.
this applies not only to martensitic and ferritic stainlesses but austenitic stainless as well. the typical bolt is a 302 austenitic stainless. rust stains on porcelain can cause a corrosion cell to start on the "stainless" bolt.
my apologies for the thread hi-jack
If you have additional information that you would like to add feel free to post it in this thread.
from this thread http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13741
there are the following quotes
I prefer not to use stainless steel braided (Watts & ProFlo), because I've seen too many burst lines in the past. The SS braids tend to rust in cabinets with household cleansers stored in them. Almost every single customer has an open can of Ajax or Comet under their sink, or an open box of SOS pads. I've noticed where ever the SS line has a loop in it, is where it bursts. The tension from the loop splits the rusted braids on the outer side, then the rubber hose ruptures. Usually you can't see if they are rusting because it's dark in the cabinet and the loops are usually behind the sink.
Because of this I was one of the last Die Hards to use C.P. tubing with the prick head and my tubing bender......I have evolved in the last 2 years,
Now I use BrassCraft Polymer Braided supply lines, which used to be SS braided originally. I feel that it's a better braided line which is more resistant to those under sink chemicals.
For Dishwashers the part #'s are:
B1 - 72 DWF -----3/8" compression both ends - 72" long
BL3 - 72 DWF ----1/2" compression both ends - 72" longFor Ice Makers the part #'s are:
B0 - 60 IM -----1/4" compression both ends - 60" long
These also come in 72, 84, 96, and 120 inches long as wellIf you are gonna install a Bosch dishwasher (easiest to level & plumb by the way), you definitely will need a flexible line.
I have done it with 3/8" copper tubing and a bender (<----my die hard days,LOL) but it is a ROYAL P.I.A.
Tracy
Keep in mind standard kitchen cleaning supplys will cause a SS supply to fail. Many of the manufacturers are switching to a mylar which looks like SS because of this.
Mark
from this thread http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11506&page=2
Good info. I think a lot of people mistakingly assume stainless steel is harder and stronger than carbon steel. This is often not the case. One of the biggest difficulties, working with stainless is that it work hardens. This makes it difficult to form. The 305 stainless used to make screws is purposely designed to allow formability. It sacrifices strength for this. Some of the coatings they have developed for carbon screws are pretty incredible. One might be better off, using coated carbon, vs. stainless...especially if you end up having to overdrill the whole and coat each stainless fastener with lubricant.
This same thing is true with knife blades. I've talked to many people that think because it says "stainless" on a knife blade they are getting a great quality blade. Don't count on it. Most of the cheap knifes with "stainless" blades use cheap stainless that is easy to form...which makes it a terrible material for a knife blade. I knife needs to be made from a steel that can be edge hardened so the sharpness will last.
you mention that you are using ASTM 305? screws. This is an almost unknown, and definately never used alloy in Europe. It doesn't even have an SS (Swedish Standard) Nr. The mixture, 18.12 is using more Nickel, and less Chrome than 316, to up the corrosion resistance. When the nickel is "out of balance" with the chrome, you get an undesired brittle alloy.
Your problem will be less using 304, or 316 depending on the required corrosion resistance.
However VASandy and CWSmith are on the right track, avoid using impact drivers on stainless, as it "work hardens". Use all the torque you want, that way Stainless is amazingly strong.
Sorry Disaster, it was your answer I was refering to! As regards Knife blades, you are right on. Normal stainless is useless for this. Knifeblade stainless otherwise known as "Martensitic" Stainless Steel, contains carbon, to enable hardening. Carbon is usually a No-No in stainless, as it causes intercrystaline corrosion. As a rule, good Martensitic comes from France or Switzerland. The percentages in a succesfull Martensitic alloy are down to 1/1000, and are of course, closely guarded secrets.
Having said this, some of the finest Martensitic blades are from the USA, Buck Knife for example. I assume that the steel is US made. It would be nice to know if this was the case.
from this thread http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13655&page=3
If you use stainless steel bolts make sure that the bolts are NOT in contact with anything rusty. A stainless steel bolt in contact with rust can begin to rust as well.
this applies not only to martensitic and ferritic stainlesses but austenitic stainless as well. the typical bolt is a 302 austenitic stainless. rust stains on porcelain can cause a corrosion cell to start on the "stainless" bolt.
my apologies for the thread hi-jack