$7000. drain cleaning

[PLUMBER RICK]

well it was going to be a $7000.00 job if the k-1500 didn't make such a good first impression:D

a call came in this afternoon from an older couple that has lived in their home for 30 years. the guy from mr. rooter was there and wanted to have them ok a $7000. pipe bursting job for a plugged up drain. he said the line was broken and that he couldn't clear it. yet he was able to run a camera and show the customer the problem:confused:

the customer got nervous and called a local realtor friend who recommended me;)

i told the homeowner to have the guy leave and i'll be there in a few hours. the invoice was billed for $175 to snake the line and camera it. they stated the line was broken.
the 4'' front cleanout was dry and i ran the hose to fill it up. once filled and overflowing i put my 4'' cutters onto the 1.25'' cable and ran 40' to clear the line with no problem. i continued to 70' to clean the balance. ran the washing machine and hose full blast to test.

the owner was thrilled and thankful for clearing the stoppage. meanwhile they feel that they were deceived by the mr. rooter guy.

he told them that they couldn't use the drains and he had called 2 times before i showed up to get them to approve the work. he never made a videotape or marked anything.

i asked where they got his #from. the yellow pages:eek:

moral of the story, you get what you pay for. $175 to snake and camera the line is no deal when you end up with a stoppage and a $7000. estimate.

$145. to snake the line and assure them that a new line is not needed.

they are in their 70's and the last time they had a stoppage was 10 years ago.

at that time they were also taken by a local notorious plumbing co./ george brazil:eek: also from the yellow pages.

i know they learned their lesson today after i fixed their drain:D

no more calling service people in the blind. always get a referral from a friend or neighbor.

rick.

[Australian Plumber Josh]

tree roots?

K1500 is my only machine. ive always had good results.

[apf]

Rick,kiss my *** with your yellow pages **** you pompous ***.

[oldslowchevy]

Rick,kiss my *** with your yellow pages **** you pompous ***.


let me guess, you have a yellow page ad??:eek:

[apf]

I am new to this city ,don't know a soul ,but am very fair and very good at what I do.How else do I frickin' survive but an ad until the business is built -up.You are keen in observing I have an ad.:rolleyes:

[Wild Weasel]

This sort of attitiude isn't going to win you any friends though!

Sure, everyone has to start somewhere, and obviously people who don't know someone to refer them will look at those ads. If you're as good and fair as you say you are, then in time you will likely be in the same position as Rick and also be warning people away from the random experience of picking from the yellow pages!

[Josh]

haha... a little touchy on the yellow pages comment. We need yellow pages with reviews. That would take care of the problem.

APF... I agree it could be a problem being in a new town and not having a reputation yet. Gotta start word of mouth somehow. You do a few good jobs and the word starts spreading. Just like roto rooter gets a bad name from trying to take that couple for 7k

Rick,kiss my *** with your yellow pages **** you pompous ***.

[apf]

Rick,at least I have the balls to open shop in a city I"ve never lived in before.Me thinks you would crap your pants in the same situation.I pull permits for everything,inspectors don"t bother me,most work is guaranteed between 90 days for faucet repairs and such to 1 year for new fixtures,service lines,etc.I send thank-you notes after each job listing my other services and state that they should feel free to call if there are any questions concerning work I've performed or new work they are considering.Oh Lord Rick,what else can a humble yellow pages/internert advertising contractor do to prove himself???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[apf]

Weasel,you don't know my history with Rick on this subject.If you don't wanty to talk to me,no sweat !:D

[Wild Weasel]

Fair enough. I don't. And if Rick means his comments, however subtly, as a jab at you specifically then I suppose you have a right to be mad but I don't think anyone here would have taken it that way until you posted.

I tend to believe that regardless of your existance, his advice is still valid. Picking someone from the yellow pages is a crap shoot and while you could be very good, the ad next to yours could be for someone like what this thread is about. There's just no telling.

That being the case, as mentioned, once you've worked for a while and built up your reputation, the people you've worked for will be referring you to others and eventually, you won't need those ads anymore.

In the meantime though, what else can you do, eh?

[toolaholic]

Here's My take , some won't like it,so be it. Rick is a caring human,as most of You are !
The LORD sent Rick to help these Good older Folks. Looks like The Devil isn't The only Guy in The Underground Buss. $7000 ?
A.P.F. Remember,Anger is fear ! I have tons of it , I don't do so well with it Myself! Good luck,and think about this

[Woussko]

Me thinks that APF and Rick have a howling contest going on here.:p

[apf]

Fear is also a motivator.I have 4 kids,I have a wife,I have people who depend on me.I need to take care of them.There are important people that come to this site and I don't like to be catoragized .I respect Rick in a lot of ways,but this here we differ.I have never publicly said don't use a tradesman because he does things a certain way or uses a certain form of advertising.It's just not fair,and when something is not fair I speak my mind.Many good people here,Robert,/WC,dirty hands,Garager,Mark[toutah],drain medic,many more seem nice but I don't really know them,and I have no problem with them.Later,maybe.

[Drain Medic]

He is not bashing anyone who has a yellow pages add...Simply stated that you cant trust everyone with a yellow pages add...I 100% agree...word of mouth referrals are the best advertising....They had your service and like it, so they are going to recommend you...I have a yellow pages add....but i need it right now, i dont get enough business from word of mouth yet, but ive only been on my own for just over a year...Hopefully in the yrs to come i can get alot of word of mouth referrals, then i can stop advertising in the YP and save a ton of money and update equipment

Greg

[Drain Medic]

Hmm for some reason editing wont let me edit, i wanted to add the APF your right on , family is 1st and foremost...If your just starting out or in still new in the buisness by yourself, yes you need to advertise in the YP...i have to do the same thing...Im sure you will be able to rely on word of mouth advertising in the future like i hope to do...Main thing is just to believe in your work, offer better and more caring service then the next guy....which it sounds like you do...

Rick, good job on the drain line:D:D

[Herk]

Kudos for getting the line clear. But I can't help but wonder - Plumber Rick, did you camera the line? Is it OK, or have roots cracked it all along its length? And another thing, I don't do pipe bursting, but is $7,000 a lot for the job? Seems as though it saves a lot of trenching and yard destruction.

I'm certainly no fan of Mr. Rooter, and I have no doubt they'll try to take advantage of somebody, but without confirmation that the pipe is reasonably intact, perhaps we're jumping to conclusions.

OTOH, I realize that clearing the line once every ten years doesn't indicate a need for sewer replacement. Still, it would be nice to be able to assure the customer, with a video record, that their sewer is sound.

As to advertising: if you don't need it, you're saving a lot of money - savings you can pass on to your customers. That's not skill - that's luck. It means you have more work than competition, that you aren't being overrun with low-ball Billy Buttcracks and that the economy in your area is still strong enough that some people can afford to hire a plumber. The only "skill" involved is living in the right place.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Rick,kiss my *** with your yellow pages **** you pompous ***.

I am new to this city ,don't know a soul ,but am very fair and very good at what I do.How else do I frickin' survive but an ad until the business is built -up.You are keen in observing I have an ad.:rolleyes:
how did you expect to move to a new town and open up shop. unless you're the only plumber in town, grew up there and moved back. what do you expect. the phone to start ringing when you move there.

an electrical friend of mine got married and moved to his wifes home town in washington d.c. even though he is connected with her family and friends, he still commutes/ flies to los angeles 1 week every month to work. he still has a house here and his truck. that's been 2 years now.

why not get settled in and work for a company for a year or more:confused:

it took me 15 years of full time new construction before i went off on my own.

Rick,at least I have the balls to open shop in a city I"ve never lived in before.Me thinks you would crap your pants in the same situation.I pull permits for everything,inspectors don"t bother me,most work is guaranteed between 90 days for faucet repairs and such to 1 year for new fixtures,service lines,etc.I send thank-you notes after each job listing my other services and state that they should feel free to call if there are any questions concerning work I've performed or new work they are considering.Oh Lord Rick,what else can a humble yellow pages/internert advertising contractor do to prove himself???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i would not move to a town that i didn't know and expect to be as busy as i am in a town that i've grown up in and worked in for 32 years.

at what point did i ever pick on you or single you out? go back to all of my 3100 post and find 1 post i ever picked on you.

you make it out that because your phone doesn't ring from the yellow pages, it's all my fault.

why don't you tell all your yellow page sales reps to start pulling the ads of the dishonest and unscrupulous companies that prey on the desperate, elderly and uninformed.

maybe your book is different, but any plumber who knows the reputations of other companies already know the good and the bad. the bad can be found in the large ads on 40 pages. most with multiple ads in different categories.

there are 40 plus pages of yellow page ads just in the local book here. i can't say anything positive about anyone of the large (1/2 page plus)ads. there is a reason why i don't advertise. i don't want to be associated with any of these companies. i can selectively pick and chose who i work for, where i work, and what i want to work on.

my best referrals comes from another very busy reputable local plumbing co that doesn't advertise either.
his elderly mother in law who lives in colorodo was also taken on a water heater install because she didn't ask for a referral. i'm going off of memory, but i think it was 1700 to install a 40 gallon heater. after her daughter and son in law found out, it was too late. eventually she did get a refund after some calls.

ask robert, or adam if i have referred a job or 2 to them?

if i knew anyone in oaklahoma i would give them your #. but i don't.
get the people that you know, have worked for, wife works with, to pass your # on to new customers. it's free and a reliable source of clients.
i always screen new customers, where they got my # from.

on a closing note, i asked the elderly couple if they looked in the yellow pages for their doctors? she smiled and said of course not.


rick.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Kudos for getting the line clear. But I can't help but wonder - Plumber Rick, did you camera the line? Is it OK, or have roots cracked it all along its length? And another thing, I don't do pipe bursting, but is $7,000 a lot for the job? Seems as though it saves a lot of trenching and yard destruction. i charge $50.00 a foot including the material. 40' would be $2000. for the pull, plus whatever the digging cost for the 2 locations. this varies based on depth and location.

I'm certainly no fan of Mr. Rooter, and I have no doubt they'll try to take advantage of somebody, but without confirmation that the pipe is reasonably intact, perhaps we're jumping to conclusions.

OTOH, I realize that clearing the line once every ten years doesn't indicate a need for sewer replacement. Still, it would be nice to be able to assure the customer, with a video record, that their sewer is sound.

As to advertising: if you don't need it, you're saving a lot of money - savings you can pass on to your customers. That's not skill - that's luck. It means you have more work than competition, that you aren't being overrun with low-ball Billy Buttcracks and that the economy in your area is still strong enough that some people can afford to hire a plumber. The only "skill" involved is living in the right place.

i don't camera for free and i don't feel that with a 30 year track record in the house, they need to worry about running a camera at this time.

i can tell you that every clay line in this 50 plus year neighborhood has roots, including mine. that's no reason to have to change them or camera them.

until i have a real track record of a sewer, i wouldn't spend the money on camering the line. especially since it took seconds to cut through the stoppage. if i can get a 4'' cutter through a 4'' clay line, how bad could it be?

anyone who gives them a "free" camera job is not doing it to be a nice guy. they are doing it to sell them something. same reason why they didn't pop in a $1.50 video tape. (price went up since costco doesn't sell them anymore)

if every time a person went to the dr. with the sniffles, they don't don't do anything free and they don't order expensive test.

get to know your customers and their issues. everyone of mine has a computer profile including a sewer history with quick notes. until they have serious reoccurring problems, they don't need an expensive camera or fix.

rick.

[Herk]

We don't have many clay lines here, though there are some city sewers that are still clay. We do have a lot of orangeburg, and some is still serviceable.

My experience with clay is that any old clay lines have broken at every hub. I can't help but wonder how much of the sewage actually makes it to the sewer. That said, I've seen water lines so rusted that the only thing holding the water is the surrounding clay soil. (We also have a lot of old water lines crossing sewer lines, so you can imagine the possibilities of contamination!)

But you're correct that there's no need to panic unless the stoppages become a common problem. I did consider that, in this instance, where the previous company had camera'd the line, it might be warranted to do the same - if only to prove that they were attempting to rip off the customer.

[Wild Weasel]

If, as Rick says, there are roots in all the lines and they're not posing serious problems, perhaps that's why the other company chose to use the camera.

If I didn't know any better, and someone came and showed me a bunch of the roots in the pipe and said they needed to be replaced, who am I to argue?

That could have been part of the sales pitch. If you do that for 20 people and one of them ponies up the 7 grand, then it's worth it, right?

[ToUtahNow]

I believe Rick is talking more in general terms. The problem is most HO are limited to looking in the YP and anyone including a non-licensed plumber can buy an ad. That of course does not mean every plumber who advertises is a bad plumber.

Mark

[Herk]

That could have been part of the sales pitch. If you do that for 20 people and one of them ponies up the 7 grand, then it's worth it, right?

It is worth it, especially if you only plan to be in business ~ five years and then retire to the Caribbean.

Around here, backhoes don't charge a whole lot - you can probably get a line like that dug and reburied for about $400. And an hourly plumber charging ~$70 per might come to the same amount, for a total of around $800. I have no idea what a pipe bursting company charges for a sewer replacement, but I'm thinking that I'd opt for something a lot cheaper.

A number of years back, I read a trade magazine article about a plumbing company that had just picked up a camera. They were selling a lot of repair jobs and they were talking about $2,000 or so to repair a couple of feet of pipe, if memory serves. I was astounded that they could get so much for a couple of Ferncos and a couple of feet of pipe and a hole.