Face frames and pocket screws

[FSK]

Hi,

I have made a couple of face frames to go on cabinets and screwed the joints together using pocket screws from the back. I have a problem with keeping the frame members flush & aligned when I drive the screw in. The one edge wants to offset from the other. The glue seems to act as a lubricant and the edges just slide.

I clamp the frame down (both members) to the bench, but it still moves on me. It there something I need to be doing? Am I tighten it too tight? Maybe the screw I'm using is mismatched with the hole size?

Sharing any ideas or experience would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Frank

[TOD]

I had that problem at first using the kregg pocket hole jig. It has a lot to do with the drill depth. Make sure the tip of the drill exits the end of the piece you are putting the pockets in. Also use the pocket jig clamp to clamp the pieces flush when driving the screws.

[BHD]

Are you using a kreg jig?

and I use the glorified vice grips with the pad on them to hold the frame and hardly ever have a problem. and have built many many things with the pocket screws. using the kreg jig, http://www.kregtool.com/products/pht/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=8 I have made a few extra clamps with off brand vice grips, and welding on some pads, and they work as well as the kreg units, and saved some money doing that, I have enough clamps I can clamp assemble an entire cabinet face frame usually unless it unusually large and complicated.


I had another one off brand piece of junk, first (jig) and it was a joke and all most avoided the system with the mess that thing made.

my kreg jig is the older all metal unit.

[Woodywoodchuck]

I just clamp mine down to bench.Sometimes they move away a bit when its real hardwood (jatoba,oak) but the screw hits the piece where its supposed to and sucks it back in.

[Wood_Junkie]

First pre-drill and pre-drive a couple of the screws (then back them out) before applying glue, because as you found, the glue is a lubricant.When you reattached the face frames post glue up the pre-drilling will help align and hold.

You do need to clamp the heck out of the frame to keep it from moving shifting slightly when your screw contacts the second workpiece.

[VASandy]

Great tip, Wood junkie, thanks!

Good question, too!!

[Cephus]

Wood Junkie's solution certainly works, but it's just as easy to get some of those inexpensive spring clamps and clamp the piece across the joint to hold it in alignment while you drive your screws.

[The Wood Meister]

I tried a jig similar to the Kreg some years ago. I had NO luck making it work correctly. I kept breaking off the pilot bit. I then bought a high dollar bit with a replaceable/adjustable pilot bit and it broke too. I ended up buying the benchtop Porter Cable pocket hole machine. Granted it's not 40 bucks but if you do a lot of pocket holes, it's a great tool and usually under 600 bucks.

I made a clamp for my frames using an "over center" type clamp with a few mods. I mounted it to a piece of wood and covered the base and clamping piece with 80 grit sand paper (the blue stuff on the pictures) so it would not slip. Now I can fly around a face frame in no time getting perfectly flush joints. Sand paper gets replaced occasionally too. I get some glue buildup on the paper but I clamp in a wet rag once in a while to soften the glue and then just peel it off. (i'm into cheap and functional!LOL)

Mark

http://www.wonders-in-wood.us/images/ridgid/faceframeclamp3.jpg

http://www.wonders-in-wood.us/images/ridgid/faceframeclamp2.jpg

For bigger pieces that my clamp won't span, I just come in from the INSIDE corner of the joint.

http://www.wonders-in-wood.us/images/ridgid/faceframeclamp1.jpg

[FSK]

Thanks for the replies. It looks like the way to go is to clamp the snot out of it and pre-drill both pieces.

I think I have a toggle clamp to make a jig like The Wood Meister made.

Thanks

[kenwho]

W.M thanks for that money saving idea :), i have a lot of those clamps. I changed to a flat sided drill bit instead of the beveled got mine from rockler but tyler,grizzly,amazon should have them . also the screws . the bugal /flat head screw made it shift.

[rnt80]

Nice little jig W.M. I'll have to put one together this weekend. Sanding those offset joints has always been a pain, it sounds like your solution should take care of things. Thanks!

[Andy_M]

I don't have trouble as long as it's well clamped. I like the over center jig a lot - looks fast!

Keep in mind that wood glue (like Titebond) is pretty much useless on end grain. Since your face frame puts end grain against long grain, regular woodworker's glue may make you feel better but the joint strength is coming from the screws. Your joints won't miss the glue much if you skip it! Having said that, I use a bit of epoxy. I don't think it's great on end grain either, but maybe a little better. Epoxy likes a bit thicker glue line - about 0.005 inch. So I leave the screws not too tight, then drive 'em in harder the next day after the epoxy has hardened. Yup, it's a hassle and I'm far from sure that it's worth it.

[Newman]

If you want a really strong joint, you can use a biscuit along with the pocket screws. :)