My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

[DWfromUK]

I was cutting splines for cutting boards. I needed about 60 in all and was cutting them from 3/4 oak at about 1/8 inch thick. I had cut loads of these before and had to remove the saftly guard to run them through with the push block. I had never had any problems thus far. Then suddenly, just as I was about 2/3 the way thru the cut a spline shot back. It shot back so fast that I didn't even see it fly back, let alone where it went. I loked on the floor, but didn't see it, so I carried on cutting. My wife popped her nose in about 15 mins later and I looked back. There was the spine, sticking thru the cupboard door at the back of the garage (about 15 feet from the TS). I had on all the normal saftly gear, but just a T-shirt (its still 93 degrees here in AZ). I think I'll invest in a leather apron!! Take a look at the pics. It actually gained altitude.

[oldslowchevy]

kick backs often reach speed of 80 mph or more, scary stuff and glad you are ok. if this was only 15 feet away can you imagain what would of happened if it would have hit you??? omg

[BHD]

I have a hole in my old garage door, (1/4 Masonite type product) from a kick back, jsut about the same kind of thing.

[papadan]

I've had 2 kick backs. One was a large piece that bounced off my belly, had a mellon sized bruise for a few weeks. Next was a small piece I never found. It put a hole through the curtain on the garage door and I replaced the broken glass that it left through. I have learned to be a lot more careful!

[Hef]

What is the primary cause of a kickback....just a binding peice of wood against the blade?

I hope I'm not jinxing myself??!??!

[plumberscrack]

My first day of 8th grade woodshop class the teacher gave a safety speech on saw kickback.

He pointed to a metal cabinet behind the saw about 15 feet away that had about 6 or 7 pretty deep dents in it.

"Those dents are from kickbacks but there's one dent that's missing" :confused:

He opens his shirt to show a bare chest and a 10" scar across his belly :eek:

I received a failing grade in woodshop for not completing a single project that semester.:(

[Woussko]

PC

Don't feel bad about not passing. When I took wood shop in HS rather than Jr, H we had to watch 16mm movies about safety. The one with the guy cutting his arm off with a large table saw really made people sick. Some vomited and hard. I didn't but I kept over in the corner of the shop that day and just did some hand sanding. The funny one (we could tell it was faked) was the movie about not picking up a hammer when you're angry. It reminded me of The Three Stooges from TV.

[plumberscrack]

Woussko,

I remember those 'scare tactic' movies too, like the ones we saw in driver education.

Like showing us dead teenagers sprawled out on the roadside pavement was going to somehow make me a better driver :(

[LONGHAIR]

Ok, I'm lost here? How did what appears to be one of the cut spline pieces kick back? If you were only 2/3 of the way through the board....nothing was cut-off to be spit out? Where did this projectile come from?

None the less, this is why I cut so the small piece is away from the fence, instead of being trapped by it. It just takes a simple small jig to make repetitive cuts from the other side of the blade.

[PLUMBER RICK]

i remember in jr. high. only the teacher was allowed to use the table saw. as we all watched him rip wood to make a checker board, he had a kickback.

the piece shot all the way to the wall and through a students full sheet of formica.

we all thought was impressive,the teacher wasn't laughing.

in high school we got to use the table saws. it was the wood lathes that were scary.

the print shop had a printing press that a student was inking while it was running. he's now called lefty:eek:

that was 27 years ago:D

rick.

[blind bill]

Longhair,
What does your simple jig look like? Short of wearing a chain mail vest I can't figure out how to safely cut a small piece off a narrow board where you have to have the blade guard off in order to use a push stick. I haven't had a kickback since I installed my first ZCI but still it worries me because I can't figure out how I can use the push stick and still stand to the left of the blade (I'm right-handed and the fence is on the right side).
Does anybody use those small piece holders I see advertised? If so what's your opinion?
I still have a thumb and 4 fingers on each hand and hope to keep it that way. A year or two ago I had a piece of a board chip off and come shooting out from under the blade guard. It knicked me on the hand but did no damage. Scared the hell out of me though, because I didn't see it, but then again, even if I could see I wouldn't have seen it.

Blind Bill

[FINER9998]

i use the set up in the ridgid table saw instructions when ripping very thin pieces. never had a problem when i followed the safety instructions. when i didn't, it cost me 2 stitches in my left index fingertip. thankfully, a very cheap lesson. what is it the guy with the beard says? "be sure to read, understand and follow all the safety....."

[LONGHAIR]

blind bill,

It can really be as simple, or complex, as you choose. I have seen them with measuring devices and micro adjusters, but all of that is not necessary. All you really need is a simple "stop" that fits in your miter slot.

Take one of those cheap, simple, wooden featherboards with the metal miter bars and the slotted board, and take it apart. Cut 45 degree miters on the square end so that they meet in the middle, leaving a point. Slightly round off the point by sanding. Re-assemble the jig with the rounded point end toward the blade side of the miter slot.

To use: It is as simple as marking the width of your intended thin strip on the board and adjusting your rip fence to cut so that this strip would come off of the outboard side. Now that you have the board set-up like this, slide your new jig into the miter slot and adjust it so that the rounded point touches the side of the board. This "sets" the width on the left side of the blade. Now lock the jig and REMOVE IT!..........DO NOT CUT WITH THE JIG IN PLACE. It is just a reference point. Cut your first strip, put the jig back in place, put the board back in and slide the rip fence over to meet it and lock it down. REMOVE THE JIG.......and cut again. You can continue this way until the main board gets too narrow to cut safely.

If you do this a lot, you can get a more creative and make something a little sturdier and more acturately adjustable. This works but it requires measuring and marking the first piece.

[DWfromUK]

OK Longhair, you are 100% correct, if I was 2/3 the way thru the cut there wouldn't be anything to kick back. What was I thinking when I wrote that?!!

Cheers Dennis

[ToUtahNow]

I've never been hit with a kick back but my wife Brenda was. She was cutting a piece of 3/8" plywood which got away from her and hit her in the chest. She was convinced the saw blade came apart so she was trying to figure out how to find someone in one of the other shops to help her. Once she got up off the floor and realized there was no blood she relaxed a little bit but she has not used .hera table saw since.

Mark

[blind bill]

I couldn’t find anything in the 3650 Operator’s Manual concerning cutting thin slices off narrow boards but I did find reference to several methods in Mehler’s Table Saw Book. I have an l-shaped ¾” mdf fence that I clamp to the rip fence for cutting thin sections where the push stick won’t fit between the fence and the saw blade guard. Long Hair uses a jig for a stop on the left side of the blade to set his cut strip width thus he holds the outboard width constant and adjusts the fence on the right side of the saw to whatever stock he’s cutting from. This is a great idea and one that I will certainly use in the future. I’m wondering, though, why it is necessary to remove the jig every time I make a cut. If I could use the jig much like a feather board I could solve another of my worries – how to hold the work piece firmly against the fence without putting my right hand in the line of fire behind the blade. If I leave the Long Hair Stop in place to use as both a stop and feather board what kind of trouble am I asking for?

Thanks for all your help you all. Amongst this great group of master craftspersons I feel like the piece of pork and a can of pork and beans.


Bill

[LONGHAIR]

Don't leave the jig in place because it becomes a pretty solid "trap", maybe still resulting in a kickback. The flex of the featherboard keeps the piece against the fence, but allows movement, so things won't bind. You could use a featherboard when making these cuts as long as you keep it well away from the blade, so that you are not pushing the thin strip into it.

[blind bill]

You're right on, Long Hair. There's no reason why I can't remove the stop and place a feather board in front of the blade guard an inch or two. Good thought and thanks for the fatherly advice.


Bill

[LONGHAIR]

Fatherly?...........Thanks man, retired kinda makes you older than me.

[oldslowchevy]

i am retired and only 34

[adana]

I can relate to this incident. While doing a reno in an older kitchen, I had to trim some cabinet doors, and one of the cut-offs shot back and stuck in the wall. Not to mention another kick back after a "bind" that gave me a 12" horizontal bruise across my stomach. That’s why I'm always standing clear of the blade from now on........ but I still have all my fingers !!:eek:

[niki]

May I add my 2 cents...

I would recommend reading this article that explains with images the kickback.
http://www.waterfront-woods.com/Articles/Tablesaw/tablesaw.htm

I'm from the "Blade High" group...

There is another reason for a kickback that is not mentioned in the article...
When you rip-cut a wood (not a man-made boards) that has internal stresses, those stresses are released just after the front teeth of the blade and the part that is between the fence and the blade, bends to one side.

If this part is bending toward the blade, the splitter or riving knife will keep the kerf from closing on the blade (that's the reason that riving knife is mounted some 1/8" behind the blade) but...

If this part is bending toward the fence, well, the fence is clamped to the table and the wood starts to press to the side that it's easier...the blade...in this case, I'm not sure that the splitter or even the riving knife will protect against kickback because the splitter/riving knife are flexible.

To overcome this problem, a "Short Fence" must be used.
The "Short fence" extends to only 1~2" beyond the front teeth of the blade and if the wood bends toward the fence...the fence is not there so, nothing to press on and the wood is just bending to the side (see ilustration below)

The "Short fence" is "standard" in European table saws (by law) but you can make it just by adding or clamping auxiliary short fence to the existing long fence.

I read on many forums that "the riving knife will prevent kickback", I think that it's not exactly so...the Riving knife in European saws is only one part of perverting kickback, the other part is the short fence...that's the reason that the European safety regulations does not require the "Anti-kickback pawl" that is standard on US saws.

Saying that, I admit that I'm not an "angel" and I do use long fence...homemade, the saw comes with a short fence...

Well looking up on my reply...it looks more like $100 and not "2 cents"
Sorry for the long reply

Regards
niki
2205

[blind bill]

It took me over 70 years to figure out that age doesn't necessarily equal knowledge (or wisdom). Thanks again my father.

I use two pieces of 3/4" mdf glued together as a "short fence" by clamping them on to the rip fence (usually). I started out using the short fence as a sacrificial fence when making rabbet cuts but figured out if I turn it around aI have a good short fence. After reading Nicki's comments above I'm going to make its use routine. I may even use those left-over parts from assembling the saw (if I can still find them) to utilize the t-slot in the side of the fence.

Blind Bill

[niki]

Hi Bill

I'm "younger" that you are (63) but old enough to agree with your statement about age and wisdom.

I just thought that maybe it will be interesting for you to see a "Euro saw".

On the pics you can see the fence and the sliding table (39" before the blade).

I just forgot to mention a small detail.........it cost money and a lot.....

Regards
niki
22062207220822092210

[LONGHAIR]

Well to set the record straight, I'm 44.

niki,
I see your point, but in all of the "real wood" that I have cut, I have never seen the fence side bow enough to cause a problem. Yes I have had enough side load to get some burning, especially in cherry, but not enough to worry about.....I hope. I like the short fence idea though. Why are we so behind in America? We have to buy a very expensive imported cabinet saw just to get a riving knife. The standard around here is an above the table mounted box-type guard on a PowerMatic 66.

[niki]

Hi LONGHAIR

To tell you the true, I also did not experience anything like that (but I'm only an amateur for 13 years) and that's the reason that I mention that I'm not an "angel" and I do use a long fence (you will not see the short fence in my posts pics).

I just mentioned the stress release as another possibility for a kickback...at least, according to the "law makers".

I don't think that you are "behind", I think that it's more to do with the "market demand"... the saw on the pics costs around $2000 and it's not a full professional version...just Aluminum table, no throat plate, no dado blade can be installed and one 3/8" miter slot...I'm not so sure that anyone would by it in USA for that price.

Just to give you 2 examples;
The Bosch 4000 that costs in USA around $500 costs in EU More than $1000...how many people would buy the Bosch for $1000... riving knife or not...
Hitachi M12V router...around $120 in USA....$600 in EU....

Sometimes (well, not sometimes) I turn green when I see the price difference...

I think that the "high" European standards are because of the Unions that want's to make it safer for the workers but this "safety" costs money.
From 2008, all the rotating machines must obey the law "the machine must stop within 10 seconds"...no problem but, who do you think will pay for that....yeap, you are correct, we will...

Regards
niki

[LONGHAIR]

I am of the opinion that the cost of "true" safety practices and equipment is far less than any benefit that you might think you are gaining by not using them. Most of the time we think we are saving time and when something does happen we would give anything to get those few seconds back. Most of the accidents that I have seen or heard about were occured when the person knew better. They just didn't listen. Some do happen out of ignorance, which is just as unfortunate, but many times the person was doing something that they didn't think about, because something else was more important at the time. They didn't want to "waste" the time it would take to "set-up" the proper equipment, to reach around the guards that should be there, or make some kind of hold down other than their own fingers.

The best safety tool is your own head...the second best are the ones we use with-out thinking about them. Meaning that they are not in the way or require much adjustment or fiddling. That's what I like about the riving knife, no thought about it, it's just there doing it's thing. Magnetic feather boards, good push blocks/sticks, etc. are simple easy things.

I work in a commercial shop, so many times there are things that are repetitive, at least for the duration of the job. Jigs and hold-downs take some time initially but they save in the long run.

[rprice54]

http://benchnotes.com/Strip%20Cutting%20Gauge/strip_cutting_gauge.htm

here is one approach and you can leave the guard on.

[steveKane]

Another practical thought I've had in the recent past....the way my shop is configured, our water heater is sort of behind the table saw. It might behoove me to ensure I angle the saw (thanks once again to herculift!) just a little to the northwest, to ensure any kickback that misses me hits the concrete wall, instead of the water heater. :eek:

[big mac]

I used to cut 1/2" solid formica for cabinets (used in hi-tech labs) if you think kick-back from wood is bad try solid formica---almost like steel. We always set up gigs. Really simple---short fence--"push board" with a top handle and blade only 1/16" above work piece. This way you end up pushing cut piece past the blade and your hands never come near the blade and with blade lower there is less blade to catch material :)