Kohler Junk

[drtyhands]

Thanks to Kohler I had to replace 3 out of 6 tanks that were cracked around the tank to bowl port.Thank goodness there was no damage.You were right guys Kohler's not what they used to be.

[westcoastplumber]

Hmmm, are you sure it wasn't installer error?? I have never had any problems with Kohler. Maybe a little to much coffee that day??

Which model was it??

As you all know, I am a huge fan of kohler products.

[Herk]

I'm not on good terms with Kohler. I've got a tub valve that is being a real pain. I got parts for both balancing spool and cartridge, and the thing squeals like a stuck pig, won't shut off and I had to put the old cartridge back in. Still drips. Been in three years and has dripped enough to plug the drain with lime.

I've seen a lot of crap from Kohler over the years, such as the valvet stems I've got that all had broken plastic rings hanging unopened on the rack. They need to go beyond the high-school level for their engineers.

Who can forget the Kohler/Bradley stems and plastic faucet bodies?

I've had Kohler toilet bowls that were so out of shape that I couldn't get them to seal - something that should have been caught by an inspector. All in all, I'm sure I've had more problems with Kohler than with any other brand.

And I've got about $150 invested in parts for that tub valve so far - I could have bought two Moen Posi's for that much. I'm hoping to recoup on one of the cartridges if it turns out to be faulty and not a misshapen body. It's on a one-piece fiberglas tub and shower unit, and in the middle of a bedroom wall on the other side where an access panel would really be out of place. Now if I could just get the renter to let me back in to fix it . . . it would have been fixed already if the parts had worked.

https://secure.dolphinplumbingsupply.com/imagemagic.php?img=images/77886.jpg&w=150&h=103&page=

[DuckButter]

....... It's on a one-piece fiberglas tub and shower unit, and in the middle of a bedroom wall on the other side where an access panel would really be out of place. Now if I could just get the renter to let me back in to fix it . . . it would have been fixed already if the parts had worked.


I absolutely hate that, defective materials that make you look bad, you wind up working twice original estimated hours, to the point of mumbling in frustration and all the customer thinks is you did something wrong. period.
I make a point of telling customers up front that I am NOT liable for defects when they purchase stock or fixtures.

[drtyhands]

Hmmm, are you sure it wasn't installer error?? I have never had any problems with Kohler. Maybe a little to much coffee that day??

Which model was it??

As you all know, I am a huge fan of kohler products.
You know what Robert,That is a good point.I've never broken a tank(Watch my next one break:)) I wonder if the plumber broke it.Is that usually where they break when one over tightens.

I wasn't paying attention to the model.The supply house had it on their original invoice and ready to pick up when I got there.I'll get the model on monday.

I just find it to be too much of a coincidence after hearing the talk on the forum.

[MrsSeatDown]

Robert, you should go to KOHLER, WI to go for a visit of the Kohler factory and their museum of old toilets, including the rainbow of colors they were once made in. It is a must-see for a true fan like yourself.

I went one summer, believe it or not it was years before I even met Rick.

[mrs. westcoast]

Robert, you should go to KOHLER, WI to go for a visit of the Kohler factory and their museum of old toilets, including the rainbow of colors they were once made in. It is a must-see for a true fan like yourself.

I went one summer, believe it or not it was years before I even met Rick.

He will come back home with pink toilet:eek:

[westcoastplumber]

Whats funny is I have been using Kohler for many years, and I have never had any problems with fixtures, valves or faucets.

I admit kohler does have many parts and they do experiement to make their products better, but for the cost, kohler is excellent.

They have the quality and look of grohe, without the cost and expense to repair or install.

I have installed nothing but kohler toilets, I did three last week, no problems, clean installs.

Maybe kohler ships their better quality fixtures to california and
new mexico :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[yasudaplumbing]

I've never really had any problems with Kohler toilets. Especially the 2 piece models. I like these toilets because they are of a 3 bolt design (Wellworth model) which makes them very rigid and stable.

I don't really care for the Kohler shower valves because they don't have a volume control. I also had a problem valve several years back that would not stop dripping after replacing the pressure balance unit & cap assembly.
The only thing I could think of was that the valve body was warped or something. I call the Kohler tech guy and he couldn't figure it out.

I prefer the Delta 1700 series shower valve with the volume control. The new numbers are R10000 UNWS (valve body w/ stops) and T17430 (Trim Kit). My Dad's house has these going on 10 years and I haven't had to replace the cartridge yet. (1500 series before the 1700 series came out).

Don't get me started on the Kohler valvets, When I buy the K-30002 or K-30004 valvets with the included plastic plungers, I always make sure to also buy the K-42299/K-42300 brass plungers. I always discard the plastic plungers. However, they do make an all in one kit K-30135-BC/K-30134-BC which contains the complete valvet assembly and the brass plunger.

I feel that Kohler makes the best quality American faucets. Good heavier brass with good chrome. Just don't buy the Lav faucets from Home Depot though. These come with the plastic pop-ups, not the metals ones.

Tracy

[westcoastplumber]

Hi Tracy,

I am trying to research your kohler numbers: kit K-30135-BC and K-30134-BC

The complete kits, I am having trouble, did these numbers come straight from kohler??

Thanks Tracy :D

[DUNBAR]

Kohler faucets, not toilets in my area are a two trip trick.

When I explain what it'll cost them to rebuild one, including my time on a manhunt to find only what maybe 1 or 2 supply houses have in a 150 mile radius have, they usually back down or head out to buy another brand faucet that can be easily worked on/parts available practically anywhere.

That's where Delta takes the helm in my area because people don't want a faucet that's nearly impossible to find the parts.

And the renegade DIY'rs that go to Kohler's website to buy the parts? Either get lost in the land of PDF's or somehow their part has been discontinued in that particular model.

Hopefully other areas have it better than my area because I can't tell you how many Kohler faucets I've removed that were less than 3 years old, the customer got sick and tired of calling 1-800 numbers and either getting the right parts that still ended up leaking or the wrong parts that just added to the frustration.

On the www front, anytime I get forum questions regarding kohler the OP has usually already went to Kohler's website and either got flustered trying to find parts or they get to the parts explosion and find out the part is no longer there for them to buy.

In a professional opinion,

Product owners/consumers of any particular brand are usually loyal to the product they buy, otherwise they wouldn't of bought it to begin with, whether it followed looks or the name, quality.

From my years dealing with countless products it almost seems like Kohler doesn't care about making money on the back end of business, meaning the serviceability of their own product. It's like they'd rather see you buy another than work on your old because we now have something better for you!

I get miffed when I have problems even with the brand new, OEM parts straight from Kohler. For the most part you cannot retrofit flappers on Kohler toilets.....they have to be the OEM's or they just won't work, even if it looks practically identical in style.

Good for Kohler, keeps them employed. I personally own a Kohler Cimmarron with the only complaint of lackluster bowl wash. Other than that I have no complaints with the majority of their toilets.

But as a forewarning to all my customers before I install their product (Kohler) I let them know that the ability to get parts in my area are non-existent on a small hardware, big box, majority of plumbing supply house spectrum in keeping parts for your faucet whether now or years from now.

I did work for a Kohler rep years ago installing a water softener and he tried to pawn off some discontinued faucets that he did on a reset at HD that wasn't purposely destroyed to keep from reentering the liability pool.

I told him that it would be bad enough to buy them with them NOT being discontinued, let alone buying them knowing that in a few short years, they won't supply the back end.

He agreed. Bring a "former" Kohler rep to this forum without an axe to grind and they'll readily stand up to admit that repair parts is not what Kohler is about..........at least in my area it isn't.


Kohler Bidet, What you don't know until years later (http://www.kohlerserviceparts.kohler.com/Product.aspx?ModelID=d075385cd2674adcb455429e23d70 417&AttributeIDs=&PageNum=all&SortBy=0) <<< Click on PDF

[yasudaplumbing]

Hi Tracy,

I am trying to research your kohler numbers: kit K-30135-BC and K-30134-BC

The complete kits, I am having trouble, did these numbers come straight from kohler??

Thanks Tracy :D

Here is the link to the Kohler parts page:

http://www.kohlerserviceparts.kohler.com/SearchResults.aspx?itemtype=servicepart&searchparameters=valvet&pagenum=all&pagesize=12&categoryid=&SortBy=0

Scroll down to the 6th row, look for only 30134 & 30135 Without BC. The website info is screwed up. :confused:
My Genuine Kohler blue & white plastic bag specifically says "30134/30135-BC" on it.

Tracy

[westcoastplumber]

HeHe, plain as view, thanks Tracy, I was searching their site by part number and for some reason it wasn't working, maybe it was me doing something wrong, we'll I got the info I needed, thanks again:D

[westcoastplumber]

Kohler Parts are hard to find ?

Try Grohe parts:speechless: I had a problem finding American Standard the other day, not a problem finding kohler, atleast yet.

[DUNBAR]

I think it's my area.....it's just not a popular brand. You're right about Grohe, difficult.

Are Kohler parts common in hardware stores, big box, supply houses in your area?

I think that would do the name justice greatly in my area if they would at least make it possible to obtain repair products. Hard water is to blame for I bet half of it.

I can see where they would spend more money on target areas, like yours if the product preference is more the norm than the exception.

[westcoastplumber]

I think it's my area.....it's just not a popular brand. You're right about Grohe, difficult.

Are Kohler parts common in hardware stores, big box, supply houses in your area?

I think that would do the name justice greatly in my area if they would at least make it possible to obtain repair products. Hard water is to blame for I bet half of it.


I can either get kohler parts from my local fergusons or a specialty store called Rebacks Plumbing and Things, if anyone makes a part, they have it or can get it, no matter how old the faucet or fixture is.

Grohe on the other hand, hard as hell and if they need to order it, it takes 6 weeks, never good.

Alot of the problems many of us are talking about, go for alot of other fixture and faucet companies out there, kohler isn't the only one that has problems, every manufacturer does.

[yasudaplumbing]

HeHe, plain as view, thanks Tracy, I was searching their site by part number and for some reason it wasn't working, maybe it was me doing something wrong, we'll I got the info I needed, thanks again:D

No prob Rob :D. My cost was about $19 each. Yours should be cheaper because they only have to truck it to your supplier. They gotta cross the deep blue ocean to get to me. :crying:

I've found that sometimes using the "K" prefix for a search yields zero results. I did a search on "valvet" and got lucky.


Kohler Parts are hard to find ?

Try Grohe parts:speechless: I had a problem finding American Standard the other day, not a problem finding kohler, atleast yet.

Kohler isn't a problem here also. I usually go online to research the part number before ordering it locally if they don't stock it.

I guess I'm lucky that we have a local supplier who only sells mainly repair parts and stocks quite a few.
Such as the Price Pfister Flomatic Cartridge, or the American Standard "Colony series" stems & seats. A bunch of Repcal & Crane items too.

Our local Grohe Rep. is the Daughter of a Mom & Pops plumbing store. She knows all the popular part numbers and descriptions as well as stocking them.

Tracy

[Tyman]

Same here, if it's a Kohler toilet or faucet it is usually two trips. Glad I'm not the only one who has issues with them. If they would standardize their parts it would be so much easier.

[DUNBAR]

A Kohler thread about product problems.


Don't even get me started on #($#(%&#%&(#$()#(%$ moen faucets.

Delta is cursed with their 3 tube torment.

Price Pfister, put it back in the box to save yourself the agony. Comes with 231 parts for 8"-16" widespreads?

[westcoastplumber]

A Kohler thread about product problems.


Don't even get me started on #($#(%&#%&(#$()#(%$ moen faucets.

Delta is cursed with their 3 tube torment.

Price Pfister, put it back in the box to save yourself the agony. Comes with 231 parts for 8"-16" widespreads?


Two trips?? I go, get what I need and come back and install it, never had to make two trips on a repair.

I have had to make two trips for price pfister ceramic stems, one was messed up inside the stem, and the other one was for a grohe cartridge.

Thank You Dunbar for bring to light the other manufacturers shortcomings.

[westcoastplumber]

I was unable to edit my last post, it wouldn't go through, but good point Tyman, yes, kohler and many others should standardize their parts, like price pfister has done.

But then again, it would be a perfect life then, and we all know a perfect life, is a boring life. :banghead:

[yasudaplumbing]

A Kohler thread about product problems.


Don't even get me started on #($#(%&#%&(#$()#(%$ moen faucets.

Delta is cursed with their 3 tube torment.

Price Pfister, put it back in the box to save yourself the agony. Comes with 231 parts for 8"-16" widespreads?

This is why we are Plumbers. :D

Tracy

[yasudaplumbing]

Same here, if it's a Kohler toilet or faucet it is usually two trips. Glad I'm not the only one who has issues with them. If they would standardize their parts it would be so much easier.

I hate making 2 trips.

This is the reason why I stock 2 or more of all the popular faucet & toilet parts.

Kohler flappers, float & flush valves for one piece toilets. Toto flappers.
Ceramic stems (most brands)
pressure balance unit/cartridges for Am. Std., Delta, Moen, Kohler, Grohe.
Toto & Eljer side mounted trip levers. Kohler Wellworth angled side lever.
Kohler & Am. Std. pressure assisted tank cartridge by SloanIt seems like a lot of money tied up in inventory but saving time on several extra unnecessary trips makes it all worth it. ;)

Tracy

[DUNBAR]

This is why we are Plumbers. :D

Tracy


Ahh tis true.



Have you reached burnout stage yet? That's where I'm at. Don't get me wrong......I still love my trade but I can't go any higher in what I'm doing and I'd like to do something more with the profession like be a teacher/instructor for the new breed of plumbers coming into the profession.

Maybe sell instructional packets to help test out for the master's/journeyman's license in my area. I believe product knowledge is crucial whether you're a new construction or service plumber and this isn't taught in a code book.....this is a see-it-as-you-go process.

I really think that a plumber's license should be a combination of both service and new construction. You should be able to set a pipe plumb and level without a level, you should be able to replace a faucet blindfolded. Isometric drawings of a 5 story buildings with acid waste system knowing size of vents and total DFU count, sizing your main drain correctly. Understanding that you can't clear a drain by accessing the cleanout on the bottom floor when only one fixture is affected by the incident. (You'd be surprised how many plumbers/drain cleaners will hit that main first and THEN head to the problem area. Maybe the onset charge?)

[Herk]

If anybody has any luck with the Kohler website for looking up parts, I'd like to know the secret. I've hunted there for parts and it just says that it can't find anything. Doesn't seem to matter if I put in a part number or a model name.

When I repair a Delta or Peerless faucet, I have everything I need on the truck - one kit will repair either type of ball, and with the SS plates on the two-handle cartridges I can usually clean them up and replace seals and springs.

The only repair part I don't regularly carry is the Rite-Temp cartridge because there are so few of them here.

I get a lot of Price Pfister tub yokes, both regular and trailer house versions, and some of them are interchangeable. I carry stems, trim kits, seats, and repair kits for those.

American Standard is rare here. And why do they call themselves 'Standard' while nothing they have is standardized?

I'd really like to find a problem-free, long-lasting faucet that I felt comfortable recommending. I repair a lot of Moen faucets. The problem with their replacement cartridge program on their "lifetime" guaranteed faucets is that we become the free service force for Moen. If we stand behind our faucets, we have to work for free, though they supply the parts. Now, they want to supply to the consumer only and some of the supply houses are giving up the replacement program.

I still think the Moen Posi-Temp is the most dependable and easiest to repair pressure-balancing tub valves on the market.

[yasudaplumbing]

Ahh tis true.



Have you reached burnout stage yet? That's where I'm at. Don't get me wrong......I still love my trade but I can't go any higher in what I'm doing and I'd like to do something more with the profession like be a teacher/instructor for the new breed of plumbers coming into the profession.

Maybe sell instructional packets to help test out for the master's/journeyman's license in my area. I believe product knowledge is crucial whether you're a new construction or service plumber and this isn't taught in a code book.....this is a see-it-as-you-go process.

I really think that a plumber's license should be a combination of both service and new construction. You should be able to set a pipe plumb and level without a level, you should be able to replace a faucet blindfolded. Isometric drawings of a 5 story buildings with acid waste system knowing size of vents and total DFU count, sizing your main drain correctly. Understanding that you can't clear a drain by accessing the cleanout on the bottom floor when only one fixture is affected by the incident. (You'd be surprised how many plumbers/drain cleaners will hit that main first and THEN head to the problem area. Maybe the onset charge?)

No, I'm not burned out yet.........but I am reaching the point where I start to think about what kind of non-labor Plumbing field I could do that would also pay well. I really think about it when my knees, elbows, wrists, etc. start to hurt ocasionally.

Maybe a TV show? Like "Ed the Plumber" on DIY network.
Or an instructional video on repairs and service work?

We already have an independent company selling classes on licensing for all the Contractor fields. They must have a lock on it with the State and the Unions. I took both of their classes, once in '91 for my Journeymans and back in 2005 for my Masters. It was definitely worth the $400 each time.

Tracy

[yasudaplumbing]

If anybody has any luck with the Kohler website for looking up parts, I'd like to know the secret. I've hunted there for parts and it just says that it can't find anything. Doesn't seem to matter if I put in a part number or a model name.

I've had that problem too. It takes a lot of patience and clicking to find what you need. Sometimes I just Google the make & model name and use the info that pops up to search at Kohler.





I'd really like to find a problem-free, long-lasting faucet that I felt comfortable recommending. I repair a lot of Moen faucets. The problem with their replacement cartridge program on their "lifetime" guaranteed faucets is that we become the free service force for Moen. If we stand behind our faucets, we have to work for free, though they supply the parts. Now, they want to supply to the consumer only and some of the supply houses are giving up the replacement program.

I still think the Moen Posi-Temp is the most dependable and easiest to repair pressure-balancing tub valves on the market.

I usually recommend Delta or Kohler to my customers. To me, they are the most problem free with parts readily available, especially Delta, all you need in your truck for Delta is:

RP3614 repair kit for single handle faucets
RP1740 cartridge for 2 handle faucets
RP4993 seat & springs for 2 handle faucetsTo me, no faucet will last long. After all, aren't all the seals made of rubber regardless of the brand? I tell my customers "you change your tires don't you?".
I've also seen ceramic stems go at 3 years.

If my customers want a long lasting faucet, I recommend a Grohe. Their cartridges usually last for 10 years or more here. I've never seen them fail in less time.

Tracy

[Herk]

It seems that the newer American Standard faucets, particularly the basin faucets with the solid brass bodies, hold up pretty well. I've not seen a failure yet, except from freezing. Ceramic cartridges don't freeze well. But again, they want the consumer to order the parts rather than supply them to stores or supply houses. The plumber is being taken out of the loop.

My Gerber kitchen pullout has been in for a long time and I've changed the standard pullout spout once or twice - about every three years. Some faucets do seem to last longer than others. But then, I've had customers with the same faucet and they seem to find ways to trash it quickly.

The problem with Delta/Peerless here is that we have very hard water and I've seen the seals quit in about two years. Usually, parts of the seal are impacted on the ball/stem and it can be cleaned or replaced. The Delta stainless seal cups work a lot better than the Valley with plain brass - those get eaten away and can't be repaired. I still run into older Deltas that are pre-stainless with the old style seals and springs.

I also fix a lot of Price Pfister kitchen and basin faucets and the washerless type stem works pretty well, but the newer ceramics have problems, I think.

[westcoastplumber]

I've had that problem too. It takes a lot of patience and clicking to find what you need. Sometimes I just Google the make & model name and use the info that pops up to search at Kohler.






I usually recommend Delta or Kohler to my customers. To me, they are the most problem free with parts readily available, especially Delta, all you need in your truck for Delta is:

RP3614 repair kit for single handle faucets
RP1740 cartridge for 2 handle faucets
RP4993 seat & springs for 2 handle faucetsTo me, no faucet will last long. After all, aren't all the seals made of rubber regardless of the brand? I tell my customers "you change your tires don't you?".
I've also seen ceramic stems go at 3 years.

If my customers want a long lasting faucet, I recommend a Grohe. Their cartridges usually last for 10 years or more here. I've never seen them fail in less time.

Tracy


You are very correct about Delta, I carry all the delta parts, and it's only a few for repairs. for grohe, I had one 2 weeks ago, the cartridge was dripping, newly remodeled, only 2 years old, had to replace the cartridge. Not the first time this has happened.

[DuckButter]

100% agreed on the Delta faucet parts, not at all a fan of the shower valves, but I always suggest the faucets on install for the one reason talked about so much on this thread - future servicing.
I keep them on my truck too, along with my Symmons parts and the other basics.
When parts aren't readily available I immediately envision myself on hold with MFG's getting more and more annoyed as I hear "Press 2 for the service department", "Press 6 for the technical support and parts dept"...then after successfully getting through the labyrinth of voice prompts..."We value you as a customer, expected hold time is 15 hours", then you get to listen to an elaborate list of alphanumeric model numbers that "might" be the right part.

Oh and then there are the MFG's that require the customer to call in and have the parts under warranty shipped to their home...that really makes me look like a pro, thanks.
Hint, I might not be installing your fixtures in the future.
I'm not even gonna start with flappers, there was a thread on that a few months back...those dreaded words on the phone.."I can't see what the name is on the toilet", just bring a Korky and hope fer the best.

[biscuit]

we dont use a lot of Kohler faucets, but 99% of our toilets, urinals, bowls etc. are all kohler.

I just got all the fixtures for a new home for my nephew from my Kohler supplier. I was somewhat impressed with the quality.

I have all Moen in my home, but after seeing/feeling these, I would not hesitate to install Kohler Faucets next time, If hte wife approved of the style.:D

Regards,