window casing/door casing

[franklin pug]

Can anyone enlighten me on how to install casing around a widnow/door in a timely fashion? I have been hanging some window casing and its taking me a long time, with many trips to the saw and back.

I am cutting standard MDF casing, surrounding the window with said casing, miter cutting the corners at 45 degrees. I can get good results, but i seem to take forever to sneak up on a solid joint (4 to 5 cuts).

Any tips on measuring faster so that I can make a few less trips to the saw?

[Woodywoodchuck]

Can anyone enlighten me on how to install casing around a widnow/door in a timely fashion? I have been hanging some window casing and its taking me a long time, with many trips to the saw and back.

I am cutting standard MDF casing, surrounding the window with said casing, miter cutting the corners at 45 degrees. I can get good results, but i seem to take forever to sneak up on a solid joint (4 to 5 cuts).

Any tips on measuring faster so that I can make a few less trips to the saw?

So its paint grade right? Easy to fill mistakes with putty. You can try cutting the inside miters 44 degrees and the outside 46. Sometimes that helps. Its also more forgiving if your installing against carpet so if its off the floor a bit its okay.
Also measure all of them and make the cuts. Install one side (nail at top),then get top fitting against the side joint so you can turn each one a bit to get solid fit then nail top , then other side.

[woodenstickers]

I used to install windows and doors pro and although some of the guys made fun of me, I used good ol arithmetic. If you have 2 1/4" casing and you want a 1/4" reveal left on the jamb which is pretty standard you can measure inside jamb to jamb on top, add 5" and there is your outside miter to miter measurement. For the sides you do the same, but only add 2 1/2" and you get your bottom to outside miter measurement. As for tight miters, as stated above paint grade is very forgiving when caulked, but I always tried to get it as tight as possible. I found that nailing one side, then the top, then the other side gave me the best chance to work the miters tight when installing solo. Eyeball up the reveal on the side, or measure it and mark it first if you need too, and nail it up from the bottom leaving the top a little loose so you can move it where you need it as you install the top piece. Don't go nuts with the pins at first, and remember you can always pull it or push it where you need it before you pop the nail.

The last thing is if you are really having trouble keeping those corners tight it is okay to have your reveal off a tiny bit if you have to cheat it. That is far less noticable than other places. The rule for paint grade in existing houses (never square or plumb to start) is "split the difference".

Just how I did it and do it. I hope I made the math part clear. I'll be back later tonight so if it don't make sense let me know.

Good luck.


PS. If you need to pull the casing away from the wall a bit at the miters to make them tight it is okay as the casing to wall line will be caulked and painted. Use a small pry bar to hold the corner out so miter is tight and shoot your nail while holding it. This will give you a gap at the wall that is easy to caulk and hide and keep the miters tight.

[mspaugh24]

I will start by saying "Sometimes this method is dangerous".. But,i like to measure the inside width of window or door add 1/2" for reveal,and cut everything short 2 short. Then,most importantly,i nail the frame together on the floor or a flat surface,with glue on the mitres. In my case i would have 20 or 30 windows/doors to work on at a time. So,i would skip to another window/door and cut,glue, and nail it together while the previous frame's glue is drying.
This is just the best way for me. I installed custom trim in high end homes for about 6 years.That is very satisfying work,especially if you're working with a good sawman or helper.This is one of the houses i worked on last year. My boss and i trimmed out this house by ourselves. FUN STUFF! :D

http://www.hometouramerica.com/detail.cfm?ad_id=2197

[Wild Weasel]

http://www.hometouramerica.com/detail.cfm?ad_id=2197

Damn! My wife would LOVE that place!

[staab29]

I will start by saying "Sometimes this method is dangerous".. But,i like to measure the inside width of window or door add 1/2" for reveal,and cut everything short 2 short. Then,most importantly,i nail the frame together on the floor or a flat surface,with glue on the mitres. In my case i would have 20 or 30 windows/doors to work on at a time. So,i would skip to another window/door and cut,glue, and nail it together while the previous frame's glue is drying.
This is just the best way for me. I installed custom trim in high end homes for about 6 years.That is very satisfying work,especially if you're working with a good sawman or helper.This is one of the houses i worked on last year. My boss and i trimmed out this house by ourselves. FUN STUFF! :D

http://www.hometouramerica.com/detail.cfm?ad_id=2197



that is exactly the best way to do it and that is how we do it too. also after you brad nail your casing to the jambs you need to finish nail it to the wall but keep you finish nails back from the miters at least 8'' to prevent the miters from opening up when it is sucked back against the wall.

[mspaugh24]

Sorry all,I forgot to say why this may be "dangerous". Sometimes the brad will pop out of the wood,so make sure you hold the joint together far enough back that it will not hit your finger. This may be a problem with the mdf, I haven't had experience with this material,but i know it's fairly hard.If the nail does pop out it can be snipped off and sunk into the wood,and of course ,a lil putty can fix that! :D Glad to see others doing it this way!! :D:D

[garager]

I will start by saying "Sometimes this method is dangerous".. But,i like to measure the inside width of window or door add 1/2" for reveal,and cut everything short 2 short. Then,most importantly,i nail the frame together on the floor or a flat surface,with glue on the mitres. In my case i would have 20 or 30 windows/doors to work on at a time. So,i would skip to another window/door and cut,glue, and nail it together while the previous frame's glue is drying.
This is just the best way for me. I installed custom trim in high end homes for about 6 years.That is very satisfying work,especially if you're working with a good sawman or helper.This is one of the houses i worked on last year. My boss and i trimmed out this house by ourselves. FUN STUFF! :D

http://www.hometouramerica.com/detail.cfm?ad_id=2197

Ditto, that is the correct and most satisfaction way of doing trim. Once you know your lengths, use a stop block with the cutting procedure, thus all the same length pieces will be 100% identical. Make a jig for a stop block.

[franklin pug]

cut everything short 2 short.

forgive me, but was does "short 2 short" mean?

Then,most importantly,i nail the frame together on the floor or a flat surface,with glue on the mitres. In my case i would have 20 or 30 windows/doors to work on at a time. So,i would skip to another window/door and cut,glue, and nail it together while the previous frame's glue is drying.
So the casing is like a large picture frame? It dries on the floor and then you hang the form when its dry?

Beautiful trim work on your link! Bravo!

[biscuit]

"short 2 short" = measuring the short dimension to the opposite short dimension.

Yes, he is building a picture frame so to speak. Its the best/easiest/quickest to put them together.

Regads,

[mspaugh24]

Shortest point of the mitre ends. Wodenstickers referred to the long points,this is just the opposite.
Yes , the casing is like a picture frame. I nail everything possible together on the floor. It's the best way to get tight joints, imo.
I just made a google skethcup pic for ya,try not to laugh,im not very good with sketchup yet.!

[mspaugh24]

Hmmm... File upload failed, i'll get it for ya in a sec.

[mspaugh24]

Can't say i'm proud of this drawing, but I hope it helps.

http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/33947/2000628118861217935_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2000628118861217935)

[woodenstickers]

I have never done production trim work on a new construction site, always retro fit and always in a house that is full of stuff. I love the technique described and the work in the link, very nice! (what kind of wood is that in the office pics?)

For the retro/remodel work or homeowner who is upgrading trim or replacing windows/doors they might not be able to use the production process though. For one it is not often you find enough room to pre-assemble the frames on the floor in front of each window/door.

You are also faced with un-flat walls and openings that unlike new construction have twisted and settled and are rarely square. I live in the bay area, and the earthquakes have made pretty certain that no window or door opening is within 1/8 of square. This makes tweaking the reveal necessary sometimes.

Also, I have always found it easier to measure and mark long to long for double mitered pieces since I can hook my tape on the point of one miter instead of trying to "cut an inch" by myself on the short. Am I missing a good trick for this?

Eli

[mspaugh24]

All the trim in that house is finger-jointed poplar.
I always hook my tape on the base of my mitre saw,then move my board to 1" mark, I have a large table for my mitre saw, you can also hook the table.:D
All you need is a door slab and some saw benches. You wouldn't want to do this over a finished floor,cuz the glue will squeeze out. Or even the garage floor,if you have a garage.

[franklin pug]

cool idea - i always just did it one peice at a time. I will certainly try your method.

What about door casing where you only have 3 pieces. Any problems falling out of square?

[mspaugh24]

No problems, just get the top right, and work your way down,with the BRAD nailer or stapler 1st.Then you can nail it to the studs.

[woodenstickers]

Is there any reason you measure short to short instead of long to long? Also I'd love to hear your technique for crown if you don't mind sharing?

Was the finger-jointed poplar stained? I have not seen it used with an unpainted finish like that before. Very interesting look!

[mspaugh24]

Is there any reason you measure short to short instead of long to long? Also I'd love to hear your technique for crown if you don't mind sharing?

Was the finger-jointed poplar stained? I have not seen it used with an unpainted finish like that before. Very interesting look!

That's just the way i was taught. When you deal with different widths of casing, it's easier to just add 1/2 " rather than add the thickness of casing, plus your reveal, 1/4" each side.It works with any casing,if you know what i mean.:)
Here's my technique for running crown: The boss stood by the saw and watched me hang 16' pieces by myself..Good thing daddy made me tall,with long arms.:p :eek: No here's what we really do: He cut everything on compond mitres, laying flat, on the base of the saw. This is the best way to get consistent results when cutting crown. We glued all joints, even butt joints, which also had a very small "nailer" block behind them. We would often have to put 1 side in and bow the other to fit between walls. It's all in reading your measuring tape and communication with your sawman, once you figure the best technique for you.
As far as i know, no finger jointed wood get stained. There would be big variations in color,as some of the joints are only 10- 12" apart. That pic is deceiving,it was taken much earlier than the rest of those. That room hadn't been painted yet.
I would love to hear some of y'alls methods of running crown moulding. I often cope my crown, when doing it for myself. Only real difference is a little more patience, and i brad nauil the copes together, no glue. There is not really any surface for glue, when coping.

Damn, now i wanna run some trim, I've always loved it.!!!! :D:p
Back to building swingsets in the morning. I'm taking the camera,so you guys can see these things. They are very nice! :)

[woodenstickers]

I do a lot of crown now a days, but only around cabinets. The material I get is prefinished cherry, maple or oak or else laminated mdf. The biggest I get is 2 1/2" so my 10" miter saw--no slide single bevel--is plenty big. I am usually wrestling with funky ceilings, and again, less than perfect cabinets (I do refacing for a big BIG company) existing in peoples kitchens so I don't use the flat/bevel miter method anymore. I find it easier to use my bevel t square to get any miter measurements if they look like they may be odd and then hold the crown upside-down against the fence of my saw and cut the 45. It works pretty sweet for the most part. If my angle is not quite 45 I can easily adjust it.

Since I am using pre-finished crown I stain the inside edge of the miters before installing. If the run is small enough I'll pre nail the miters with my 23 gauge pinner first and try to install it pre assembled. I am constantly tweaking stuff since the crown we get is not always straight on top of the ceiling and box issues and I have found that starting with the miters perfect gives me the best opportunity to end up with em that way.

I use my 23 gauge pinner for installing it too to keep the marks down. I used to be worried about the pins being able to hold up the long runs, but I pin the heck out of it and when I have to pull a piece back down have to wrestle it off, so I feel confident it will stick. With the laminate crown I'll put a blocker strip because that stuff is pretty heavy. I'd like to use 18 gauge brads but with the laminate the holes look like craters.

I'll post some pics someday, I always forget to take the before or after pics. With my trade it's more about the transformation than the fine results like you have shown, we don't get to do any really fancy stuff. Still, the trim is my favorite part too:D!

[dwlatham]

Sometimes this can be dangerous. I was doing a job last week. Unfortunately it was late and I was getting complacent. Needless to say my brad hit some wild grain and found its way through the end of my thumb and out my thumbnail.

Moral of the story be aware of your tools, materials and body parts. I was in a hurry to finish and got stupid.

The method described will yield quality work in a timely manner. One other thing that will help is to put a back bevel on your miters to compensate for irregular drywall