hot water heater driving me Nuts!

[ERKLINE1@COMCAST.NET]

This 40 gallon hot water heater refuses to go back to work!
It all started two days ago, we had little hot water.
I changed the Thermostats, Element, Each at least twice.
So yesterday day I tried one more time, and still ended with same results. I changed both elements, Filled the tank up with water, Set both thermostats to 125. Made sure to turn on hot water faucet to avoid burning element. Turned electric breaker back on. Checked and had 240 volts to upper element. One hour later checked water at faucet, and still only warm water. What else affects water temp?

[oldslowchevy]

what are you getting at the lowwer element? is the lowwer element set the same as the upper or just a little lowwer/higher? are you sre the breaker is working corately? there was a guy here salk98 that had a bad breaker, once replace all was right in the world

[ERKLINE1@COMCAST.NET]

I have 240 volts comming in from breaker, and 240 going into top element. The water will not get hot only warm.
Changed every part twice, tested every part with ohm and voltage checks.

[JERRYMAC]

try replaceing the moen cartidge in your single handle faucets???? :(

turn the hot water off at your washing machine,:(

JERRYMAC MASTERPLUMBER :)

P. S. I JUST FIXED THE SAME PROBLEM JUST LAST WEEK ! ! !:)

[Woussko]

ERKLINE1@COMCAST.NET

Check the temperature of the hot water coming right out of the heater. Is it nice and hot there? If just warm you may have a thermostat problem that got overlooked. Did you replace the limit switch? If you have 240 Volt rated neon test lights, connect one across each element and keep watch. The lower element should power up as soon as the upper one goes off and then later both should go off. In some cases you can set the limit switch. Set it at 180-200 as it's only for a runaway emergency shutdown. Do not ever set above 200.

JERRYMAC - Brings up a good point that there may be hot and cold water mixing somewhere. This is where it's important the check the water temp right as it leave the water heater. Turn on a hot faucet just a little bit open. When checking the water heater be sure there is no water flowing in your house anywhere other than when you open the one faucet. Listen with ears open.

[wwsmith]

Hot water leak / slab leak somewhere perhaps? Been there, suffered through that so thought I would toss it out there for the heck of it. I found mine by making sure no faucets or any water was running in the house and checking the water meter. After seeing the dials rotating we figured something was leaking and called in the experts to locate, jackhammer my floors and repair.

[ERKLINE1@COMCAST.NET]

I can fill the hot water tank up, shut the cold water feed line (to make sure cold water is;nt geeting where its not suppose to) , turn the electric on, wait 1 hour, and the water only goes up to 100 degrees tops, New thermostats and element (3 times) and still won't get hot at the tank.

[ToUtahNow]

I can fill the hot water tank up, shut the cold water feed line (to make sure cold water is;nt geeting where its not suppose to) , turn the electric on, wait 1 hour, and the water only goes up to 100 degrees tops, New thermostats and element (3 times) and still won't get hot at the tank.

How many amps are you drawing? What are the specs on the elements? Are you getting 240v to both elements? Did you double check your wiring? Do you have photos?

Mark

[ERKLINE1@COMCAST.NET]

I have 240 comming and going out of the top thermostat. I have 240 at the upper element. The element is rated 440w 240v. Same as what I removed. I even tried to fill the tank, shut off cold water input, and checked temp at the tank. Only gets warm. The temp never gets hot enough at the top to trip the bottom to come on. I'd change the hot water heater but on social security, and Christmas, left me broke.

[oldslowchevy]

bottom should come on frist as heat rises

[BAPlumber]

It's already been asked a couple of times, but I'll do it again. Are you getting 240v at the lower element?

[gear junkie]

The thermostat is usually held in place by metal tabs. Are these in place? If the thermostats are not tight against the tank it won't work very well. Not calling you stupid but I gotta ask; before you flipped on the breaker after changing the elements, did you run hot water for a couple minutes to ensure the tank was full? Have you checked the continuty of your elements?

[ERKLINE1@COMCAST.NET]

Ya, I posted all that info. Please read them. Theres no questions,
i appreciate any help, even if it makes me look stupid. LOL
Can you tell me how to change a dip stick?
I removed the cold water line and fitting from tank.
Can't figure how to pull the tube. If I put my fingure in it I can feel it and can move it a little. I'm afraid to pry it, I read somewhere that they just sit in there.

[Bob D.]

You stated you replaced the elements three times, what was the condition of the two sets you removed??

This would be the original ones which were thought to be bad going into the repair, and then the second set you installed thinking the first set was bad for some reason.

Now you are on your third set of elements and still water does not heat properly. As others have asked what about the lower element?

[oldslowchevy]

i too am tring to figure out why the answer about the lowwer element is not being answered

[ERKLINE1@COMCAST.NET]

i too am tring to figure out why the answer about the lowwer element is not being answered
Because the lower element does not get power till the upper gets hot shuts off. The water temp is not reaching 125 deg. only 1 element is on at a time.

[oldslowchevy]

who told you that is how a water heater works? they work together, or atleast mine does

[Woussko]

Connect up an AC Volt meter directly to the 2 screws on the upper element. Not to the thermostat but to the element. After taking this measurement, try the Volt meter across the lower element.

I think it's a typo but are the elements only rated at 440 Watts at 240 Volts? My bet is they are 4500 Watts.


WARNING: Never power or fire up a water heater with the inlet valve closed unless you are 1000% sure it really is full of water and then leave the nearest faucet hot valve partly open. As water heats it does expand. If your water heater has an expansion tank then this isn't as important. If it doesn't have an expansion tank you need to have a place for the water to go as it expands. If not then the T&P safety valve will leak or the tank will bust.

[plumberscrack]

Can you tell me how to change a dip stick?
I removed the cold water line and fitting from tank.
Can't figure how to pull the tube. If I put my fingure in it I can feel it and can move it a little. I'm afraid to pry it, I read somewhere that they just sit in there.

Yes they just sit in there held by a slight flare on the end of the plastic tube and a rubber ring gasket.

Don't push on it too hard or you will push it down into the tank.

Assuming you have done the electric repair properly this is the next most likely suspect

[gear junkie]

Yes they just sit in there held by a slight flare on the end of the plastic tube and a rubber ring gasket.

Don't push on it too hard or you will push it down into the tank.

Assuming you have done the electric repair properly this is the next most likely suspect
But wouldn't he have hot water for a short time only if it was the dip tube? He doesn't have hot water at all. Could a bad dip tube give the same symptom?

[plumberscrack]

But wouldn't he have hot water for a short time only if it was the dip tube? He doesn't have hot water at all. Could a bad dip tube give the same symptom?

It's weird, Ive seen broken dip tubes 2" long and the customer never said they had a problem with hot water. I've also seen 2" dip tubes that cause the cold and hot to mix right at the hot water outlet causing just warm water. This is one of his symptoms.

[BAPlumber]

I'm betting on an electrical problem with either the breaker or the wiring to the tank.

[Woussko]

I want to see 240 Volts right at the upper element. It's very easy to mess up wiring of a 2 thermostat, 2 element and limit switch water heater. If there is 240 Volts at the upper element then take a hot hair dryer and heat up the upper thermostat. That should get it to switch so there's power applied to the lower element.

[ERKLINE1@COMCAST.NET]

Got it fixed. Turned out to be a hot water line break under the house. The water was'nt staying in the tank long enough to get hot. Thanks for all your inputs

[westcoastplumber]

I think it is a slab leak........maybe on the hot side.

[NHMaster3015]

There should be a prize for the winning diagnosis, yes?

[gear junkie]

Thanks for keeping us updated on the situation.

[plumberscrack]

Hot water leak / slab leak somewhere perhaps? Been there, suffered through that so thought I would toss it out there for the heck of it. I found mine by making sure no faucets or any water was running in the house and checking the water meter. After seeing the dials rotating we figured something was leaking and called in the experts to locate, jackhammer my floors and repair.

And the winner is: WWSmith :) who is NOT a plumber by trade :speechless:

Now don't we all look foolish :o

[plumberscrack]

I can fill the hot water tank up, shut the cold water feed line (to make sure cold water is;nt geeting where its not suppose to) , turn the electric on, wait 1 hour, and the water only goes up to 100 degrees tops, New thermostats and element (3 times) and still won't get hot at the tank.

I thought it could be a slab leak also but was thrown off by this.

[westcoastplumber]

you would think at night when your trying to sleep, you would hear the sound of water running, I hear this comp[laint from my customers all the time when they have slab leaks, the other complaint is the new radiant heating floor system they never paid to have installed. The gas water heaters will keep on heating and the floor gets real nice and warm.

Thanks for getting back to us with the cause, it is nice to hear the cause of the problem.

to bad you spent so much time and money on material you never needed, by the time you decided to call an expert, you wasted alot of money, water and time.