I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

[Team Scream]

Ok fellas, here we go.
I took everyones advice.
I replaced the 3" closet bends with 4x3 closet bends.
I replaced the flat vent (3x2 wye) and rolled them up A LOT more.
I bit the bullet and bought a long 3" test balloon (glad I did this).
I "shaded" all the pipe as much as I thought would be good.
I cleaned the dirt as much as I could where I "shaded" the pipes.
I did a full test run by filling the flat vent until water came out of the closet bends at first, then I capped those off and kept filling until water came out of BOTH offices flat vents which I have 10 feet of vertical pipe above the finished floor of the offices.

I then released the air and pulled the plug and it all drained out perfectly!:D

I called for inspection and am scheduled for tomorrow morning sometime.
Keep your fingers crossed for me PLEASE!

Heres some pictures.

This one is the WEST OFFICE from the back, you can see all of the fittings here, the perspective is way off because I was using a 10mm lens.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2314/2193263209_22809d370a_o.jpg

East office rear same concept, but wide perspective, as an example the back of the house here is 45 feet wide and you can see the whole thing.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2118/2193263175_fec0a3a95f_o.jpg


West office front side looking back.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2312/2194049004_e39ccfbccc_o.jpg

East office front side looking back.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2418/2194049060_63560fd9d7_o.jpg

The TIE IN wide shot.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2375/2193263369_6edb1baaca_o.jpg


My test balloon ready for action.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2309/2193263305_ffac032e34_o.jpg


Ok guys, tell me what you will, I did the best I could with what I had to work with, it drains properly, I have the right size fittings, and while I agree that it could have been routed a little differently, I think it should work fine forever, there is plenty but not too much slope, there are only 2 bends after the closet bend totaling 45 degrees so the crap is not on a "roller coaster" in the east office and there is only (1) 22 degree bend after the closet bend for the west office so it is a pretty straight shot to the 4" main for both offices.

Let er rip......tell me what you think, I am pretty damn happy with myself as I am sure this would have been a $2500.00 or more event had I had a licensed pro do it for me?

I would be really interested in hearing what you guys would have charged me to come and do this including replacing the 3" main with the 4" like I did.
Give me estimates if you would please?

And dont worry, I will be around for a while here, I like this place and I have a lot more to do so thanks again for having me!

[westcoastplumber]

Looks great, like the shading and all, clean, question though,

Did you grade your flat vent back towards the drain a 1/4", it looks flat, maybe just the picture.

Does not look quite like 60 degrees, or above center line.

Good job, can't wait to see pics of the water and the gas!!

[plumberscrack]

I like it :)

I would have put a sleeve around the pipe where it goes through foundation but you look ok.

[Team Scream]

Yes they (flat vents) are sloped.

I decided last minute to bring the water and gas in above ground, I just dont want to have to jump through huge hoops to pull that off and since I have plenty of room on each side near the EOL cleannouts I decided to go that route just today in fact.
I figure it will be much easier to put shutoff valves for each office on the side near the rear of the building where nobody will really see them and that way I dont have to have a supply line encased in concrete in the event of an issue down the line.
The other reason was so that I could T off of the supply line after it leaves the house and hit each office independently instead of looping through one office to the next that way you wont hear water in the pipes in one office when the other office uses the toilet for example.

The other thing is that I did not want to be forced to install a water heater in the attic, this way I can install them outside each unit if I really want/need to.

[Team Scream]

I like it :)

I would have put a sleeve around the pipe where it goes through foundation but you look ok.

Hey PC, glad you mentioned that, in fact I did just that.
Each office has a 4" piece of ABS around the 3"waste line where it will penetrate the foundation.
If you look closely at the wide tie in view you can just make it out on the east office.

[drtyhands]

LOOKS GREAT!!!!!

Robert,He's got the wye and 1/16th kicked up as high as possible without getting into the 4" slab.An inspector should see this.And appreciate the fact that it's higher than most guys who tell their significant others they are plumbers:eek:

Concrete is not allowed to come in contact with pipe.P-crack we don't sleeve in this scenario we wrap with foam.Kindof hard to do all the other pipes in the footings with sleeve.

Scream....Cut that dang form out under the cleanout so you can get the form off the pipe after the pour:D:D

:way-to-go:

[tinmack]

I have no idea about plumbing whatsoever but everything looks pretty keen with the water flowing and whatnot.

Best part is the California landscape........considering I'm currently watching the snow fall.........

[drtyhands]

You are over your 135 degrees of aggregate change of direction.He may make you move your cleanout upstream to the form outside the office before that 45.

[gear junkie]

Good enough for government work. lol Looks great, couple things we would do different here but looks good overall. Great pics, thanks for the updates. Welcome to the forum(I know I'm late but I see you'll be here awhile).

[drtyhands]

Make sure you put enough flex-wrap around the closet riser to get your ring on after concrete.They also make a fabricated cardboard you can slide down over the 4",you may have to remove the jim cap.

[PLUMBER RICK]

:thisthreadisworthle

either you guys have computer vision, or the pictures have been removed?

rick.

[Bob D.]

:thisthreadisworthle

either you guys have computer vision, or the pictures have been removed?

rick.

Rick, I think you must be spending too much time on the wrong kind of web sites and your better half has turned off image display in your browser. :-)

Everything appears normal here, all photos posted are visible.

[drtyhands]

To much methane today Rick?

[PLUMBER RICK]

guys, both joey and i saw no pictures. 2 minutes later they appear:shrug:

i still feel the flat is an issue. it is required to be on a 45 or greater angle.

i would install a cleanout on the 2'' vent and hope the inspector is not a real plumbing inspector. if that line ever plugs due to a stoppage, you'll have no functioning vent.

you can never have enough cleanouts:D

now if you don't believe me, then you don't believe joey either. (pictures).:rolleyes:

rick.

[gear junkie]

:thisthreadisworthle

either you guys have computer vision, or the pictures have been removed?

rick.
You need to have professional membership to see the pics. Josh already sent the password out to all of us. You didn't get one? Interesting.

[gear junkie]

Just a joke. I imagine Josh's pm box got full in 2 minutes. lol

[Team Scream]

LOOKS GREAT!!!!!

Scream....Cut that dang form out under the cleanout so you can get the form off the pipe after the pour:D:D

DUDE!
I am so glad you mentioned that.
I guess worst case I could have cut the 90 off there and slipped the form off and used a coupling to put it back together which is probably how i am going to do it anyway now that I think about it.
I guess I could try some creative sawzall navigating tocut the bottom of the form out now......see it is the little things like that I miss as a DIY'r :rotflmao1:
Thanks for the heads up DH!



i still feel the flat is an issue. it is required to be on a 45 or greater angle.
i would install a cleanout on the 2'' vent and hope the inspector is not a real plumbing inspector. if that line ever plugs due to a stoppage, you'll have no functioning vent.


Dont forget the 2" vent for the lav which is on the branch right below the flat, worst case that vent will also allow the toilet to vent wont it?

Thanks for the votes of confidence guys, we will see tomorrow morning, I will definitely post up results.....either I get my inspection card signed or I have to change some things....one way or the other you guys will know how it works out tomorrow as soon as I do. :: :confused:

[drtyhands]

I'm gonna be watching you from over the fence over the fence.Trust me,cut the form.Once you start pulling a few forms that are sandwiched between the footing and the excess that pushes out from underneath you'll thank me.

[toolaholic]

Pretty clean for a part timer. That 2" vent looks less than 45 degrees up ,like Rick said ,I see 180 degrees on the 1 clean out. Why is Rick the only one to catch this?

[drtyhands]

your not trying to tell us you want to dump the lav into the toilet vent are you.I don't speak homeowner,sorry:confused::D

[drtyhands]

Pretty clean for a part timer. That 2" vent looks less than 45 degrees up ,like Rick said ,I see 180 degrees on the 1 clean out. Why is Rick the only one to catch this?
Far from it Tool:mad:

[drtyhands]

Far from it Tool:mad:
"GOTCHA":D

[plumberscrack]

Hey PC, glad you mentioned that, in fact I did just that.
Each office has a 4" piece of ABS around the 3"waste line where it will penetrate the foundation.
If you look closely at the wide tie in view you can just make it out on the east office.

Yea now I see it... duh :embarrassed2:

Here, our sleeves would have to be 2 pipe diameters larger but for I doubt he'll call you on it.:ignore:

[drtyhands]

Yea now I see it... duh :embarrassed2:

Here, our sleeves would have to be 2 pipe diameters larger but for I doubt he'll call you on it.:ignore:

Sooo what do you sleeve with when a pipe and fitting rolls up a footing into a wall:joyful:

[plumberscrack]

Sooo what do you sleeve with when a pipe and fitting rolls up a footing into a wall:joyful:
More concrete :D

Only need a sleeve where passing through or under a footing

You can't protect every fitting from stress ;)

[drtyhands]

Glad to see your sense of humor Crack.On raised foundation we sleeve as well.Then plumb through after floor joist before floor sheating.:boring::grin-square:

[PLUMBER RICK]

Dont forget the 2" vent for the lav which is on the branch right below the flat, worst case that vent will also allow the toilet to vent wont it?

Thanks for the votes of confidence guys, we will see tomorrow morning, I will definitely post up results.....either I get my inspection card signed or I have to change some things....one way or the other you guys will know how it works out tomorrow as soon as I do. :: :confused:

yes it will in theory. but not in code:D

it too is considered flat and when the toilet vent plugs, the lav draining can create a negative pressure and siphon the toilet trap.

your job is as good as any homeowner or plumber so far;) keep up the great work:have-fun:

rick.

[Team Scream]

yes it will in theory. but not in code:D

it too is considered flat and when the toilet vent plugs, the lav draining can create a negative pressure and siphon the toilet trap.

your job is as good as any homeowner or plumber so far;) keep up the great work:have-fun:

rick.

Ok, I have to stop posting here because every time I do, I get conflicting clues from you guys and it scares me to death,
I am already a nervous wreck with this thing and have spent more time dicking around with this plumbing stuff it makes my head spin.

If this guy calls me on those flat vents I am going to throw dirt at him and squirt him with the hose.:cool:

I can see him requiring me to put another clean out in front of the east office because of the bends but those flat vents are a pain in the ***, that will be the 3rd time I will have had to do it if he calls me on it.

Im out until after I get past this crap, you guys are hard on my nervous system now.:eek:

P.S. thanks Rick! I appreciate the good words....and everyone elses words as well, DH has me all worked up now, I wont sleep tonight.

[westcoastplumber]

LOOKS GREAT!!!!!

Robert,He's got the wye and 1/16th kicked up as high as possible without getting into the 4" slab.An inspector should see this.And appreciate the fact that it's higher than most guys who tell their significant others they are plumbers:eek:

Concrete is not allowed to come in contact with pipe.P-crack we don't sleeve in this scenario we wrap with foam.Kindof hard to do all the other pipes in the footings with sleeve.

Scream....Cut that dang form out under the cleanout so you can get the form off the pipe after the pour:D:D

:way-to-go:

I still don't think it is above center line and kicked up enough.

grade is not an issue as he could have gone further down the line if needed, it's not like he was at the 6 x 4

C/o's are always great, the more the better, it never hurts to have a c/o.

[MrsSeatDown]

Im out until after I get past this crap, you guys are hard on my nervous system now.:eek:



In that case, I hope my hubby is wrong about your flat vent. . .so your poop floats all the way down the line :rotflmao1:

[AFM]

OK I must be at the wrong forum I don`t mind giving advice on plumbing but I feel you have to be qualified licensed plumber to do plumbing and drainage.


Regards

Tony

[markts30]

I must be missing something...
I don't see a problem with the cleanouts the way they are...
The one that people are objecting to does not have to clean out all the way to the combo - only to the wye...
Then the line is served by the other and that is good till the combo...
If I am missing something please tell me...

[ToUtahNow]

I must be missing something...
I don't see a problem with the cleanouts the way they are...
The one that people are objecting to does not have to clean out all the way to the combo - only to the wye...
Then the line is served by the other and that is good till the combo...
If I am missing something please tell me...


The Code says a cleanout is required after 135 degrees of direction change. Although the Inspector will likely look the other wat I see 4-1/8 bends and a 1/4 bend from the cleanout to the combi. The 1/8 bends by themselves total 180 degrees of change add the 1/4 bend and you have 270 degrees of direction change between cleanouts.

Mark

[NHMaster3015]

Not sure about your code but the IPC will not allow any kind of flat venting. The vent must run vertical untill it is at least 6" above the flood level rim of the highest fixture served. That means that rolling a wye 45 degrees and then going flat is a no no also. In my opinion if you're going to flat vent, you might as well not vent at all. Sooner or later that horizontal pipe is going to plug up and then there will be no vent at all. I'm not sure where this whole flat vent thing came from in the first place. You never saw it under the old boca code. It's sloppy plumbing at best and should never be allowed.

[drtyhands]

Not sure about your code but the IPC will not allow any kind of flat venting. The vent must run vertical untill it is at least 6" above the flood level rim of the highest fixture served. That means that rolling a wye 45 degrees and then going flat is a no no also. In my opinion if you're going to flat vent, you might as well not vent at all. Sooner or later that horizontal pipe is going to plug up and then there will be no vent at all. I'm not sure where this whole flat vent thing came from in the first place. You never saw it under the old boca code. It's sloppy plumbing at best and should never be allowed.
Oh,so now I'm a slob:slap:

[toolaholic]

Would a low heel 90 been a better choice?

[NHMaster3015]

Nope, also a prohibited fitting. It's really quite simple. Unless the fitting is washed by waste flowing upstream past the fitting it is prohibited for use as a vent. And even if it is washed (wet vented) it can only be used for bathroom groups and must still be within vent to trap distances.
If you use a high or low pattern, heal inlet elbow under the toilet, where the end outlet is used for vent only, what happens when the toilet flushes waste straight down and some of the nasty poo splashes into the vent? It eventually plugs up, that's what happens. The UPC and IPC codes are very specific about how venting must be and what fittings can and can not be used in certain positions.

[Team Scream]

I am happy to report that I have a signed inspection card!:jumping:
Woooohoooohoooo freakin hoooo hoo!

the only thing the guy called me on was the east office where it dives down into the tie in he thought was a little to shallow, but when I pulled out the pre hooked up string line with a line level and showed him where grade was and topped that off with the fact that between the house and the offices is all going to be concrete he was ok with it.

He cited 718.3 of the plumbing code as a reference stating that all drain lines had to be buried 12".

He was actually really cool today, he showed me a different side of himself as on previous inspections he was a little more harsh and unforgiving.

It is a glorious day.

Thank you guys for your help....all of you!

[plumberscrack]

Not sure about your code but the IPC will not allow any kind of flat venting. The vent must run vertical untill it is at least 6" above the flood level rim of the highest fixture served. That means that rolling a wye 45 degrees and then going flat is a no no also. In my opinion if you're going to flat vent, you might as well not vent at all. Sooner or later that horizontal pipe is going to plug up and then there will be no vent at all. I'm not sure where this whole flat vent thing came from in the first place. You never saw it under the old boca code. It's sloppy plumbing at best and should never be allowed.

FINALLY!, someone has brought sanity to this flat vent talk nonsense :bow-down:

[Team Scream]

FINALLY!, someone has brought sanity to this flat vent talk nonsense :bow-down:

Obviously it is a recognized method of properly venting a fixture, even though it may not be universally recognized it still is a viable method here in California or this guy would not have passed me, he consulted the code book for a few things after he got here and the only red flag he saw was the depth of the one waste line prior to the tie in.

He also thought that the 3" wye at the intersection of the 2 offices should have been rolled a little more than it was but he went on to say that it would all work just fine and that I should never have a plumbing problem with this set up.

This guy is by the book in every respect, remember he made me knock out every cell of my block walls where there was vertical steel to clean out the grout that fell in to the bottom prior to filling (grouting) the cells.

He makes it clear that his job is to "interpret the code" and make sure it is adhered to.

[NHMaster3015]

I'm not trying to be a ball buster here, and I realize that some codes do allow flat venting, Massachusetts for one. Anyway certain things just drive me nuts. Flat venting, AAV'S, wet venting with 1 1/2, 1 1/2 below the slab, I could go on and on. So if your code allows flat venting, and you're happy then by all means go for it.

[westcoastplumber]

congrats on your inspection. good job.

[Team Scream]

I'm not trying to be a ball buster here, and I realize that some codes do allow flat venting, Massachusetts for one. Anyway certain things just drive me nuts. Flat venting, AAV'S, wet venting with 1 1/2, 1 1/2 below the slab, I could go on and on. So if your code allows flat venting, and you're happy then by all means go for it.

My balls don't feel busted brother, not at all :)

I had to consider the options and what the future may hold for these outbuildings.
The factors involved were these:

(1) Total cost per unit (my rough estimate is $10,000.00 each)
(2) Actual use of the units (an office for me and a game room for the kids)
(3) Potential future use if/when we sell (most likely be used as bedrooms by next owner)
(5) what will work perfectly for many, many years vs. what is a necessity.

Taking all of those things into consideration I am forced to make decisions that may not be the very best possible way to do it, but the cost of doing it differently negates the added value of such a move.

Every California plumber I have spoken with (some here in these threads) seem to think that flat venting is a perfectly sound way to do it GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

The bottom line for me was the alternative would have required me to break up almost 50 feet x 5 feet wide x 3" thick concrete walkway as well as tear up the entire front porch flower garden area my wife happens to like a lot.
It just did not make financial, time, wife stress sense to try and go deeper with all the plumbing in these 2 little detached rooms just to do it "the more bitchen way" because at the end of the day, everybody I talked to said the poopoo will still flow downhill like it is supposed to.

I hear ya, and if you are into motorcycles at all I can point you to some pretty bitchen work I have done which should quantify my ability and desire to do things the bitchen way whenever possible, I do not like half assed stuff at all.

I appreciate your insight and value your professional opinion, but in this situation it was a decision that added up to more than just splitting hairs, it would have amounted to several thousand dollars in added expense.

Scream

[DuckButter]

I'm not trying to be a ball buster here, and I realize that some codes do allow flat venting, Massachusetts for one. Anyway certain things just drive me nuts. Flat venting, AAV'S, wet venting with 1 1/2, 1 1/2 below the slab, I could go on and on. So if your code allows flat venting, and you're happy then by all means go for it.

On wet vents for bath groups & closets where they're washed out, not just arbitrarily anywhere.
We DON'T allow studors, anywhere...HA!

[PLUMBER RICK]

;)Obviously it is a recognized method of properly venting a fixture, even though it may not be universally recognized it still is a viable method here in California or this guy would not have passed me, he consulted the code book for a few things after he got here and the only red flag he saw was the depth of the one waste line prior to the tie in.

He makes it clear that his job is to "interpret the code" and make sure it is adhered to.[/quote]

hate to burst your bubble. this inspector is not a true plumbing inspector, but rather a combination inspector. the job looked very clean, but the flat vent is not legal. and there was a simple way to fix it without too much more work. except you would have had to trash some glued fittings.

a real plumbing inspector would have caught this, just as half of these guys here who have mentioned it. just make sure you install a 2'' c/o on the vent for future use. you'll be glad you spent the $5.00 on it;)
[quote=Team Scream;116481]My balls don't feel busted brother, not at all :)

I had to consider the options and what the future may hold for these outbuildings.
The factors involved were these:

(1) Total cost per unit (my rough estimate is $10,000.00 each)
(2) Actual use of the units (an office for me and a game room for the kids)
(3) Potential future use if/when we sell (most likely be used as bedrooms by next owner)
(5) what will work perfectly for many, many years vs. what is a necessity.

Taking all of those things into consideration I am forced to make decisions that may not be the very best possible way to do it, but the cost of doing it differently negates the added value of such a move.

Every California plumber I have spoken with (some here in these threads) seem to think that flat venting is a perfectly sound way to do it GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

some, not all:D



Scream


like i said before, you did a very clean and nice looking job;) just because a combination inspector signed off on it, doesn't make it correct.

when you have a free hour to read, please see my thread titled

under qualified plumbers, contractors and inspectors.

if this inspector was going by the book, he would have called you on it.

still your job is nice and clean and be very proud of what you did on your own.;) but remember flat vents are not an accepted / approved method of venting.

still a nice job. keep posting the rest of your project as this is actually a diy job that all are willing to help guide you through.

rick.

[ToUtahNow]

I would certainly like to see the rational for a "flat vent".

Mark

[Team Scream]

the job looked very clean, but the flat vent is not legal. and there was a simple way to fix it without too much more work. except you would have had to trash some glued fittings.


Thanks for the compliments Rick, but where were those suggestions when I was actually doing the job?
I would have welcomed any alternatives to the method, more importantly when I mentioned I was going to cut out the previous version of the flat vents because they were not rolled enough that would have been a great time to offer up the "correct" method.

Alas however here I am on the other side of the inspection where it is a little too little....a little too late.

Hopefully, this system will work for many years trouble free, again thanks for all the kind words.....if it sounds like I am being a little less than enthusiastic about your response.........it's probably because I am.
I wont pull any punches........seems like you wont either;).

[PLUMBER RICK]

i still feel the flat is an issue. it is required to be on a 45 or greater angle.

i would install a cleanout on the 2'' vent and hope the inspector is not a real plumbing inspector. if that line ever plugs due to a stoppage, you'll have no functioning vent.

you can never have enough cleanouts:D

now if you don't believe me, then you don't believe joey either. (pictures).:rolleyes:

rick.


yes it will in theory. but not in code:D

it too is considered flat and when the toilet vent plugs, the lav draining can create a negative pressure and siphon the toilet trap.

your job is as good as any homeowner or plumber so far;) keep up the great work:have-fun:

rick.

this is from this thread, now i have to search the prior thread you wrote about.

a simple way is to run your main 3'' towards the wall of where the vent is and at that point you can easily roll up a 3'' 1/8th bend/ 45 with a lo heel outlet and another 45 up on the 2'' vent. can't post nice drawings like you, but it's not too late to fix it. just test it for yourself and call it a day. you are allowed a 6' dirty arm on that toilet from the flange to the vent. all you're gaining in elevation is the c/l of a 3'' st 45. it should still fit under the concrete.

i will look back on your other thread for more told you so;)

rick.

http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15142&page=4 please see post 33 and 36.

it still can be fixed if you want to. half the guys here were concerend about the flat vent, half not.

remember a combination inspector is not the sharpest tool in the shed. a jack of all trades and a master of none. no different here with our combination inspectors.

[NHMaster3015]

I wash my hands of the whole deal. You ask for advice and then go about doing it wrong anyway. Real plumbers don't make excuses and we don't plumb illegally because of cost. And I dont give two cents for the inspectors pass. Just because the inspector passed it does'nt mean it's right. I'ts up to the "plumber" to do the job right. You say you want something that will last for years without problems, well I'm here to tell ya the vent will be plugged up within 5 years. Flat vents are illegal.

[ToUtahNow]

The job looks very nice for a DIY and better than some I have seen by so-called plumbers. The system as installed will work but there are things I would have done differently. If I was the inspector I would have turned the job down. I would have had him run the vent up an interior wall and eliminated a few bends between cleanouts.

Mark

[toolaholic]

A low heel 90,would be legal in Ca. ,and allowed the vent to raise in the wall,I believe.
Now a SF inspector would have failed this as Mark said. They are mostly ex plumbers [ABOUT 20 OF THEM] only inspecting plumbing,and know the trade. When You mentioned The inspector busted You on the cores,that told Me something. Chances are The inspector is an ex carpenter ,that inspects all the trades,or a book taught Guy. Not as knowageable. I'm happy You passed.
Please don't take this as a diss. Tool

[ToUtahNow]

I'm not sure he had the fall for a low-heal ninety. However, it appears the new line is passing under at least one interior wall which he could have installed his wye under. As a matter of fact he could have used a 2X6 wall and installed his cleanout there as well.

Mark

[Hondahead]

I would certainly like to see the rational for a "flat vent".

Mark

Here in Canada the NPC prohibits any portion of a drain to be in an exterior wall, so flat venting is acceptable, and sometimes the only option. ie. A kitchen sink on an exterior wall, under a window. I avoid using flat vents as much as possible, it is nice to have the option though. Installed correctly I don’t think flat vents are that bad. Obviously,a horizontal wet vent or circuit vent is preferred, and a continous waste and vent, ideal. AAV (only Oatleys’ 40FU AAV is accepted by the NPC) are acceptable on island sinks in new construction and in certain situations in renos/addons. I think an AAV is a good alternative to an island vent.

[DuckButter]

NHMaster, I decided to look it up and post the source on Mass code for flat vents From CMR 248:

10.16: Vents and Venting
(3) Prohibited Venting.
(a) Combination Waste and Vent. A combination waste and vent system shall not be used unless no other system is possible or practicable, and only then after Special Permission is granted by the Board. See 248 CMR 10.16(15)(a)
(b) Crown Venting Limitation. No vent shall be installed within two pipe diameters of the trap weir.
(c) Extension of Horizontal Drain. The extension or continuation of a horizontal soil or waste drain pipe shall not serve as a vent, except:

when permitted under wet venting 248 CMR 10.16(7), or
when a fixture waste of not more than two fixture units is connected to the vertical extension of the extended horizontal piping.Not intended to be argumentative, just wanted to clarify that MA code doesn't just let us put flat vents in wherever we want, there are very limited conditions.
Wet vents are required to have a min 2" diameter, with a 1 F.U. lav connected to it.
There are also BOW vents, but they require local permission and usually locals want everything in 2".

[ToUtahNow]

NHMaster, I decided to look it up and post the source on Mass code for flat vents From CMR 248:

10.16: Vents and Venting
(3) Prohibited Venting.
(a) Combination Waste and Vent. A combination waste and vent system shall not be used unless no other system is possible or practicable, and only then after Special Permission is granted by the Board. See 248 CMR 10.16(15)(a)
(b) Crown Venting Limitation. No vent shall be installed within two pipe diameters of the trap weir.
(c) Extension of Horizontal Drain. The extension or continuation of a horizontal soil or waste drain pipe shall not serve as a vent, except:

when permitted under wet venting 248 CMR 10.16(7), or
when a fixture waste of not more than two fixture units is connected to the vertical extension of the extended horizontal piping.Not intended to be argumentative, just wanted to clarify that MA code doesn't just let us put flat vents in wherever we want, there are very limited conditions.
Wet vents are required to have a min 2" diameter, with a 1 F.U. lav connected to it.
There are also BOW vents, but they require local permission and usually locals want everything in 2".

Where flat venting is permitted are you require to include a cleanout in the vent?

Mark

[toolaholic]

Also on flat venting,don't You have to go up 1 size on vent pipe? That would require a 3" for that toilet,right. Hey not bad for a carpenter,Huh?

[DUNBAR]

Flat vents in all the older homes I've replaced piping in are always 2/3'rds or completely clogged, restricting the air pathway it was designed for. It takes numerous backups over a period of years.

Plumbing is to be installed to operate error-free and non-fouling.

That picture looked like a lot of work; I'd rather dig out my own bone marrow than to pick up a shovel these days.

[NHMaster3015]

Hey there Ducky:) I am also familiar with Mass code, though I let my mass license go years ago. You are indeed correct about the limitations on the flat vent in Ma. I remember trying to get the plumbing inspector in cambridge to let one pass back in the 70's. He did'nt.
I'm happy to see that Mass still requires 2" on a wet vent. As you may know, the new IPC will let 1 1/2 go for one fixture. A crime I say.
It seems that as the years go by, the code gets easier and easier. Almost like they're trying to dumb it down.
Damn it, we are Professionals. Licensed, educated, trained and highly skilled. We don't need dumming down, we need respect.

Rant, Rant, Rant....... I'm ok now:rolleyes:

[toolaholic]

You guys are breaking My heart! My old home was ARLINGTON MASS. Grand dad was a cambridge cop 1880

[DuckButter]

Where flat venting is permitted are you require to include a cleanout in the vent?

Mark

The only two flat vents regularly installed are wet vents, which are generally the lav drain thats been sized up to 2"...under floors, they can be snaked from the lav trap if necessary.

Bow vents are less common, but we never put c/o's of any type in concealed locations.

[DuckButter]

Hey there Ducky:) I am also familiar with Mass code, though I let my mass license go years ago.

I pm'd you like 50 years ago...looking to go after my NH license and noticed yer job title.
You never replied, sob...sniffle...weep...:shrug:

[NHMaster3015]

They say the machine is only as smart as it's user, and .....
Anyhooo I only just looked up in the corner of the screen, just now and noticed that little private message box, and well, for all that pm'd me a thousand pardons..

[DuckButter]

LOL...
Looks like NH is gonna be preoccupied with a lil reading for a few....