Making a coffee table top

[axio]

Hi Guys,

I was intending to make a coffee table like this:

http://www.mrtoys.com/monopoly/6_in_1_Coffee_Table_Monopoly_And_Scrabble.htm

I was wondering what is the best way to make the table top? On the Ryobi board, people suggested using narrower planks, and joining them side-by-side, instead of purchasing a larger single piece that would serve as the table-top. They said the larger board is more likely going to warp than the narrow boards joined side-by-side with dowels. Is this correct?

[Rafael]

I have a table that is over 40 years old made up of 6" boards glued up. There is zero warp. If it is done correctly and not exposed to extreme changes in weather(don't leave it in the rain) then it should be fine. Popular woodworking magazine had a good, short and simple article on glue-ups about a month or so ago that I would recommend. I've done glue-ups with 8" boards and have not had any problems. It is true that you will less likely have warp with smaller widths but that is also that much more work to glue up.

[axio]

Would the wood naturally warp over time if it's left inside, and is about an inch thick though? I'm thinking of a piece about 2 ft by 4 ft for the tabletop.

Also for glue-ups, i'd need to make dowel holes, correct? And use a hand planer to smooth any difference in height between the pieces?

[daveferg]

OK---fellow Bay Areaer'

The design looks cool. One small comment---if you feel comfortable trying it, that drawer, in a true Mission/Craftsman piece wouldn't overlap the frame piece---it would be flush.

I wouldn't worry about humidity warping your top--not in Dublin.

Gluing up the top----you could use dowels, but the trick is that center opening---you need it aligned perfectly---what you could do is to leave the boards at a longer length than needed, so after gluing up, you can square up the ends to the final length---this give you less trouble than if you cut everything to length at once.----But to glue up the piece, you could use biscuits or for that fact, nothing at all.

Attaching the top to the frame is the key to avoid warping. You could either use figure 8 rings (sold at good woodworking stores) or, pocket screws are also good---the only difference would be that you'd put in the screw and then back them out maybe a 1/2 to full turn to allow the top to move---remember--it moves across the grain. In any event, you want no glue between the top and frame and if it warps, the bow would be in the short direction, so the drawer where it's located is fine---if it was on the ends of the table, you'd have less holding power, because of thinner wood.

[Rafael]

It depends on the environment whether or not it warps. I have a coffee table thats been in my garage for about 7 years and it hasn't warped.
Dowels or biscuits are used more for aligning the boards together. They will not prevent warping. A hand planer or scraper can be used to smooth out the top after glue up. BUT, start out with flat boards with parallel top and bottom surfaces and you will minimize any smoothing out that needs to be done. If you do everything well then a little hand sanding is all that might be necessary after glue up.

[steelewoodworker]

Axio,

I am not an expert on this but I have done it once or twice and have seen Norm do it and recommend it as a way to minimize warp.

He alternates the grain as shown;

http://home.att.net/~wa4qin/pix/woodtop.jpg

usually cuts his board width 6" or less, and joins them edge to edge with biscuits.

Jerry

[ 01-07-2005, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: steelewoodworker ]

[daveferg]

Jerry---good illustration! While the alternating grain is good, even Norm has let it take second place to matching the "look" for the money side of the glue-up.

[axio]

Man, so you guys wouldn't suggest using a large piece of wood for the top then? I kinda have to use maybe 6" boards and join them? What would be wrong with using a large board and cutting it down to the size I need, and then making a plunge cut to cut out the middle? Thanks for the advice so far too!

[axio]

Originally posted by daveferg:

But to glue up the piece, you could use biscuits or for that fact, nothing at all.
You mean no biscuits or dowels are needed for the glue-up? Is it because I'd be making a frame on the bottom to reinforce it all?

[daveferg]

Axio---First---just where do you expect to find this single board????? What----20-24" wide??? Unless you're talking about plywood (which I don't particularly like for surfaces receiving a lot of hard use (like coffee table tops)---unless you lived maybe 150 years ago, you won't find that size board unless you go to one of these places that specialize in antique lumber and that would be very expensive.

Secondly, with a single board you have a much greater chance of warping, splitting, etc. Heck, I'm not even very fond of using 12" boards, without good backing to prevent warping.

If you need some help, I'd suggest you take your plans with you to a good hardwood dealer---they should be a help. Hear there's a good one in Berkeley--can't remember the name but a yellow pages or Goggle search should find it.

[axio]

Thanks Dave. I always just figured they sell wood that size, but apparantly not. I've only browsed through the Home Depot's lumber area once or twice, and i guess the big boards are like you said -- plywood, or fiberboard. I suppose I'll be practicing making holes for dowels so I don't need to spend money on a biscuit joiner :(

[axio]

One more question -- when gluing boards together with the dowels in between, how should I run it along the rectangular coffee table? Should it be so that there's say... four long boards, or 10 short boards turned the other way?

[Woody44]

I've made two mision style coffee tables, one cherry and the other oak. In both cases I used hardwood plywood (cherry and oak)and used the appropriate banding around the exposed edge. I used several coats of polyurethane to provide a durable finish that should hold up well and I doubt that the plywood tops are ever going to warp.

[daveferg]

Traditionally, the grain runs with the long dimension of the table top---it would actually be more unstable the other way.

Get yourself a doweling jig----Believe General Tool sells them in larger stores or check on line. Lay out all your boards and carefully mark for dowels on the surface at each edge joint maybe every 8"----the jig should have a mark to match the hole.

BTW---you asked about getting the top even later----either a hand scraper or careful use of a belt sander.

[imported_ByteButcher]

Axio, I'm guessing you might be new to the field. For what its worth, I've seen table top glue ups at HD. I think only in pine and poplar but you don't say what wood you are interested in. Poplar wouldn't be too bad for the whole project since you could get the rest of it at HD if that's more convenient.

If you want to use more exotic woods as some of the serious woodworkers here suggest, another option is buying your wood from a mill already glued-up and sanded. I used to do that myself until I bought a jointer, planer, and precision router lift (reversible glue joint bit).

[axio]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I'm new to this whole thing, and like you said, ByteButcher, I just got back from HD and saw the preglued tabletop that was the exact size I needed. I would have bought that if I didn't come onto this forum. Being a newbie, I figure that I'll take the advice from everyone here and try to put my own top together. I figure if it doesn't come out right, it's only a few dollars wasted, and then I can go try again, or just get the premade top. However, if it comes out right, then I've learned how to do it which will not only save me money in the long run, but give me a sense of pride in building the whole thing.

Dave, I couldn't find a doweling jib at the local HD, nor could I even find dowels where they kept them in the other HD. I'll go back and look again tomorrow, if not ask a salesperson. Thanks for the info about connecting the wood and the layout it should be in.

Woody, does the plywood take well to routers? Like if I used a rounded bit on the router to round the plywood, would it come out smooth like normal wood? Also, since the plywood edges would be routed, there's not way to put on the banding, correct? Also, the banding around the exposed edges, is that stainable?

The polyurethane coating, is that like stain? Our is that just a separate layer after the stain, before the laquer?

I have a feeling I'll end up with the preglued top or the plywood, but I'd really like to try to assemble this from scratch first.

[ 01-07-2005, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: axio ]

[daveferg]

axio---no, you can't route plywood. Here you would need either to cut toung and groves in the plywood and in solid wood edges or use biscuits. And, as I said, I wouldn't advise it for a coffee table---which can get all sorts of abuse.

From your design, it would be much easier to cut the boards to length to creat the opening for the game boards and attach plywood from the bottom of the opening. Otherwise, you'll be wasting wood when you have to cut out the center opening.

As to a doweling jig---worst comes to worst, just checked and Amazon has them, but you could also check Rockler or Woodcraft as well.

[Rafael]

Try this jig:
At Rockler (http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?offerings_id=9975&sid=AFB81)

[RGad]

I have made several tabletops using oak stair treads, including some from Home Depot. The treads are themselves the result of edge gluing, but they are quite stable. Come in 3/4 and 1" (finished dimension) and about 9 or 12" in width and up to 48" in length.

I rip the bull-nose off with a table saw and then edge joint both edqes. Assembly is with biscuits, which help to align the boards so that there is little sanding required afterwards.

My only problem is that I use only water-based finishes, so chasing the grain on oak is a hassle.

[Woody44]

axio: If you're talking about using a roundover bit to break the edge of the plywood, the answer is no because then you have a curved surface that you can't apply the edging to.

But, if you're willing to have the edges of the plywood exposed, yes you can roundover a plywood edge. I've done it when having the edge layers show was acceptable for the piece I was making. You might need to fill exposed voids in the inner layers before finishing. It all depends on what you want for a final appearance.

As far as routing plywood edges for joining, there would be no need to do that if you just cut the plywood to the finished size of the entire top.

The edging is available in various woods. It is real wood and behaves just like the other pieces for staining and finishing. Basically it's a narrow strip of veneer. The type I use comes with an adhesive on the back that melts at high temperature and then sets as it cools. A regular iron (for ironing clothes) is all you need. Checkout some catalogs or websites to see what's available, including an inexpensive tool for triming the edging to size after applying it.

The polurethane is the finish clear coat(s). It's applied after the staining.

Based on your questions, I'd suggest some visits to a store like Woodcraft or a local hardwood, woodworking tool and finishing supply store to get some advice and look at the materials and tools. There are also a lot of books available and a number of woodworking magazines that will be helpful in gradually learning about all this stuff. There's a lot to learn and you'll never know it all.

[daveferg]

Woody---sorry, but have to strongly disagree with your continued ascetions on plywood for this project----your iron-on trim would last until the first person caught an edge on their clothes or wacked it accidently with some other object---forget it with kids. Ply has many, many applications in furniture----but for a coffee table, it's ill-advised.

[Woody44]

daveferg: In my last posting I was simply responding to axio's questions, not urging him to do things one way or another - read his questions directed to me.

Please define ascetions. I can't quite make the connection with "ascetic" as defined in the dictionary.

[daveferg]

Thought this was a woodworking forum--not a spelling bee. :D :D

Fully understand your answer, but we simply disagree on the use of plywood, in this application, and frankly, think your first idea about gluing on solid wood was much better than the applied iron on edging.

[hammerman]

Hi all,

I agree with woody. and daveferg. I have used all 3 ways for tables. With the iron on veneer - if you cleanly trim your corners where the veneer meets and put enough coats of poly (3-4) you really shouldn't have a problem with pull away. I have one table I made for my daughter and it survived my 2 grandsons, (about seven yrs now).

I have also used 3/4" veneer on a knee wall shelf, used between a split level dining room and family room. I routed a piece of oak with an ogee face and ripped it down to and glued and nailed it to cover the face of the veneer.

And i have a cofee table of solid oak with 4' boards biscuited and joined with supports nailed glued and nailed for support to prevent either the warp and or cupping.

So you all have contributed to a functional approach, and axio can walk away with different ways instead of just one.

I don't talk on this forum much because I would just be a redundant responder, but i have a great deal of respect for the input I have seen you two post over the last few years. There hasn't been one thing you two have posted on here i have disagreed with so keep it up.


Happy Woodworking guys

[axio]

Hi Guys,

Which would you buy, giving a small budget.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648


This one is better in terms of giving more degrees of cutting (90 max instead of 45 max), but costs a little more:

http://www.omalleytools.com/biscuitjoiner.html


Or this doweling jig for $30

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/hi/B000022419/qid=1105392442/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-0400782-5559043

What would you pick?

[imported_Bob D.]

If my choices are limited to one of htese three items, I'd have to go with the O'Malley. Looks to be better constructed than the HF plastic fence, better and easier to use lock knobs and adjustments.

Thier web page is a little confusing on the fence adjustments, I would want to clear up what is meant by the following;

- Adjustable fence cuts at fixed height of 6/16"
- Fixed Fence cuts at height of 6/16" to 1 1/2"

I think maybe they just got the descriptions swapped around, but better safe than sorry. It's also nice to be able to download and review the owners manual before you buy. I guess sellers figure it is better for you to wonder about the capabilities and maintenance procedures than for them to scare you off by making the manual available prior to purchase.

Anywho, for the additional couple bucks I would choose the O'Malley