Smoking in the sewer

[gear junkie]

I saw some plumbers next to my home(I rent) lift a manhole lid and me being curious decide to take a look. While talking to them, one of the helpers walks up smoking a cigarette and his plumber freaked out. He said the helper could have blown us all up due to the methane gas rising from the sewer.

Is there any truth to this?

[Drain Medic]

Sewer gas is a complex mixture of toxic and non-toxic gases that can be present at varying levels depending upon the source. It is formed during the decay of household and industrial waste. Highly toxic components of sewer gas include hydrogen sulfide and ammonia.
Sewer gas also contains methane, carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide, and nitrous oxides. In addition, chlorine bleaches, industrial solvents, and gasoline are frequently present in municipal and privately owned-sewage treatment systems.

So to answer your question. Yes it is

[All Clear Sewer]

I hope not as I do it all the time :D It`s a big maybe and a big one at that ;) Just think about the sparks from our cutters going down a sewer :eek:

I think you would have a better chance of blowing up from spontaneous combustion while you were walking down the street ;)

[tinmack]

Just go rent National Lampoons Christmas Vacation and you will see the answer to your question.

Yes, Chevy Chase is a PLUMBING GOD!!!!!!!

[Drain Medic]

I hope not as I do it all the time :D It`s a big maybe and a big one at that ;) Just think about the sparks from our cutters going down a sewer :eek:

I think you would have a better chance of blowing up from spontaneous combustion while you were walking down the street ;)


I agree the chances are slim of lighting a cigarette near a manhole and having any chance of explosion. But im not willing to find that out either. I hope that if ANYONE enters a manhole, that they use proper gas detection equipment, and respirators.

Doesnt matter if you cant smell it, that doesnt mean its not there. Even if its not Methane gas, there are plenty of other gases that i stated above that can be a health problem.

Look at all the horror stories of 1 guy entering a manhole, then in seconds passes out, and soon after dies. Then next guy goes down to get him and the same thing happens to the 2nd guy, the 3rd guy goes down and yep you guessed it.

Just because its outside on the street with all the air in the world, doesnt mean its safe in the manhole. I have had so much training in gases, confined space, proper SCBA, and i still fear going into manholes with blowers and gas detectors.

[tinmack]

Isn't that a famous rock song.....

"Smokin' in the seeewww-errrrrr........."

[PLUMBER RICK]

most methane based gasses will only ignite at a concentration of 4-14% gas to air mixture.

i would hope that we are under those limits in a flowing sewer. not to mention the vents that exit the buildings and the little pick hole in the manhole:eek:

now my buddy(not steve;)) did blow up an empty pvc water main in a new school when soldering an adapter onto freshly glued underground piping. this was a hugh disaster as the the entire main had to be replaced due to the concussion affect. the few known breaks were not the only ones they found.

i know in mexico many years ago they demolished many blocks from an explosion in the sewers. problem was the sewer was full of gasoline to hide the fact that someone had tapped into the the gasoline line and tried to cover their tracts.

a coworker of mine actually visited the site 1 year later and the roads were still buckled.

so to answer your question, it's possible, just not feasible. if it were we would hear about it all the time, just like exploding water heaters:smack-head:

rick.

[cparrish]

Shouldn't be a problem.....normally, but safety guidelines are created for the abnormal. People dump all kinds of things into the sewer such as gasoline, solvents, etc. Do you want to be the guy who finds out the hard way?

Chris Parrish
Process Control Tech.
City of Atlanta
Department of Watershed Management


I saw some plumbers next to my home(I rent) lift a manhole lid and me being curious decide to take a look. While talking to them, one of the helpers walks up smoking a cigarette and his plumber freaked out. He said the helper could have blown us all up due to the methane gas rising from the sewer.

Is there any truth to this?

[Pete M]

I saw some plumbers next to my home(I rent) lift a manhole lid and me being curious decide to take a look. While talking to them, one of the helpers walks up smoking a cigarette and his plumber freaked out. He said the helper could have blown us all up due to the methane gas rising from the sewer.

Is there any truth to this?

I've been collecting video on things like this. If you'd like to see "Manhole Volcanos" the link is http://drainbiz.blogspot.com/2008/01/video-why-manholes-explode.html

[PLUMBER RICK]

I've been collecting video on things like this. If you'd like to see "Manhole Volcanos" the link is http://drainbiz.blogspot.com/2008/01/video-why-manholes-explode.html


pete, the first 2 videos are from electrical vault fires and the last is the same stormwater overflow that was posted a few weeks ago.


is smoking around a sanatary manhole dangerous?

i would say there is a better chance getting hit by a car while standing in the middle of the street, than a manhole exploding because of smoking.

rick.

by the way pete, you're a flat rate developer, why no post on all the flat rate debates here:confused:

[Pete M]

pete, the first 2 videos are from electrical vault fires and the last is the same stormwater overflow that was posted a few weeks ago.


is smoking around a sanatary manhole dangerous?

i would say there is a better chance getting hit by a car while standing in the middle of the street, than a manhole exploding because of smoking.

rick.

by the way pete, you're a flat rate developer, why no post on all the flat rate debates here:confused:

Hi Rick....

I guess my point is, sewers do catch fire. Sometimes it just takes a spark, sometimes just heat and other times from volitable chemical combinations.

Methane is only one of the flammable gases. Take a college student, a can of beans and a candle and watch them turn into human torches.

I would be very carful with any sparks when first-lifting a sanitary manhole cover. There could be expanded gases that want to rush out and equalize with the atmospheric pressure. In other words, the sewer could exhale when the lid is lifted. It's a confined space and deserves that respect.

Lots of guys use digging picks to lift manholes. During an OSHA class, the instructor told us of a guy that used a pick, created a spark and blew the sewer.

The odds of a fire may be slim, but you never really know what someone dumped in the pipe. You ARE taking a chance - perhaps slight, perhaps not.

As a company Safety Policy, I would say No Smoking and test the gases before lifting the lid.

RE: Flate Rate.... I jump in when I can. I think a lot of guys over-complicate it and get confused.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Hi Rick....

I guess my point is, sewers do catch fire. Sometimes it just takes a spark, sometimes just heat and other times from volitable chemical combinations.

Methane is only one of the flammable gases. Take a college student, a can of beans and a candle and watch them turn into human torches.

I would be very carful with any sparks when first-lifting a sanitary manhole cover. There could be expanded gases that want to rush out and equalize with the atmospheric pressure. In other words, the sewer could exhale when the lid is lifted. It's a confined space and deserves that respect.

Lots of guys use digging picks to lift manholes. During an OSHA class, the instructor told us of a guy that used a pick, created a spark and blew the sewer.

The odds of a fire may be slim, but you never really know what someone dumped in the pipe. You ARE taking a chance - perhaps slight, perhaps not.

As a company Safety Policy, I would say No Smoking and test the gases before lifting the lid.

RE: Flate Rate.... I jump in when I can. I think a lot of guys over-complicate it and get confused.

talk about a spin job.

with 13 total post, i haven't seen any real post with any useful info.

all i really see is a way for you to promote your site of yourself and the real reason why your here.

pete if you're the expert, please use your expertise and uncomplicate this so confusing matter. or does that cost $500.00 to hear your answer.

i've yet to read a real post on your behalf. please prove me wrong.

rick.

ps. if i wrote flat rate books, i would learn how to spell flat:rolleyes:

[Frankiarmz]

Just my two cents but here goes. Working in utility manholes which are supposed to be sealed systems I ran into all sorts of unique situations. Our routine was to open the outer and inner pans and vent the hole for a minimum of twenty minutes prior to testing with an explosimeter. Without boring you guys, I've experienced "dead air", raw sewerage, and enough gasoline to fill a small tanker truck! Gasoline was from a nearby gas station, the tanks leaked and leached into our system. Splicers pumped the manhole into the street and nearby city sewer where the Fire Dept responded and immediately prepared for a possible explosion. Telephone company was fined, gas station was fined and manhole was finally pumped into a tank truck and cleaned by hazmat team. Bottom line even though it is extremly rare using caution is always a good idea because you can never tell what folks will flush into your work environment or what will leak into it. Hypodermic syringes were a common item under the covers.

[Pete M]

talk about a spin job.

with 13 total post, i haven't seen any real post with any useful info.

all i really see is a way for you to promote your site of yourself and the real reason why your here.

pete if you're the expert, please use your expertise and uncomplicate this so confusing matter. or does that cost $500.00 to hear your answer.

i've yet to read a real post on your behalf. please prove me wrong.

rick.

ps. if i wrote flat rate books, i would learn how to spell flat:rolleyes:


Rick,

What's so confusing? The original question was some thing like, "Is smoking near a sewer dangerous?" I've answered that- YES. You don't have to agree.

You keep saying I'm a flat rate developer. I have never said that. I create price book enhancers. cover sheets, inserts, etc.

Now you question my motivations and throw in personal attacks.

Congratulations on your recent license. I worked in LA for over 15 years and acquired 3 licenses, Plumbing Contractor (C-36), General Contractor (B-1) and as a Sewer Contractor. They may be expired now, but I have no plans to go back to California and the licenses won't transfer. But you can check the CSLB website if you wish. Lic # 481811

When the 1994 Northridge earthquake hit, I was right in the middle of it as the lead plumber for a 40-truck operation replacing tons of broken sewers. I don't even know how many sewers I replaced or how many streets I dug up. At the same time I was meeting with companies like Spartan, Sreco, Micro-engineering and others giving input and performing some testing on new proto-type cameras.

From there I began writing and lecturing about what I had learned during the earthquake and was asked to speak at the Environmental Expo about my experiences and the new technologies - cameras, locators, jetters, trenchless, smoke-testing, etc.

I was honored to be the featured speaker at that show in Nashville for 3 straight years and at the Los Angeles Convention Center. No hands-on guy from our business had ever done that before.

I stood up in front of thousands of seasoned contractors from around the world and had to demonstrate what I brought to the table.

After that, I trained hundreds of people in the industry - techs, and owners.

That's what I've contributed to my industry, Rick. I have worked hard to help my brothers in the field.

And now you want to question my background and motivation? Sorry Rick, I have nothing to prove.

Rick, for me, helping others isn't about knowing parts, quoting obscure facts or talking about which cutters to use. It's about helping struggling shops win in the field. That's where the rubber hits the road- and where it means something.

[DuckButter]

Pete, welcome to the forum...please don't be deterred by territorial adversity, there are a ton of fantastic members here.
There are also numerous members here that would benefit from your experience and background...I for one.
Your mention of the potential hazards of sewer gasses is true, methane or otherwise, the hazard is there.

[mrs. westcoast]

welcome pete....hope you will stick around:):p

[westcoastplumber]

Welcome to the forum Pete. Stick around and wait it out, it will eventually go away. :D:D You have quite the resume and will bring alot to this forum, in every aspect.

[Frankiarmz]

See Pete, there are nice people here. Set a spell.

[All Clear Sewer]

In the town I work in all the house are VENTED with-Out Traps so the gas in the city sewer is Vented also.

Now if the gas station down on the corner leached Gasoline in to the system I would think you would smell it when you were close to a manhole and or for the matter, someone`s house as the vapers from Gasoline will drop down to the ground from a vent stack. If I remember right 18" off the ground ???

If you cant smell Gasoline then you better stop working in the sewers as you are "burnt up" :poke:

[Frankiarmz]

In the town I work in all the house are VENTED with-Out Traps so the gas in the city sewer is Vented also.

Now if the gas station down on the corner leached Gasoline in to the system I would think you would smell it when you were close to a manhole and or for the matter, someone`s house as the vapers from Gasoline will drop down to the ground from a vent stack. If I remember right 18" off the ground ???

If you cant smell Gasoline then you better stop working in the sewers as you are "burnt up" :poke:

Problem is you may not smell it until you are down too far, and if you've got a lit cigarette in your mouth..BOOM!!! Why do folks argue about taking a simple measure to work safer? You are talking about entering an unknown environment, put out the dam cigarette.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Rick,


Congratulations on your recent license. I worked in LA for over 15 years and acquired 3 licenses, Plumbing Contractor (C-36), General Contractor (B-1) and as a Sewer Contractor. They may be expired now, but I have no plans to go back to California and the licenses won't transfer. But you can check the CSLB website if you wish. Lic # 481811
.

interesting you think i'm new to the trade. 1981 apprenticeship lic.
1984 journeyman's license and 1997 contractors license.
if that's new, i hate to see what old is.

now if you really want to compare licenses, i can question your very short period of your license. even shorter period of bonding record and no record of workers comp. associated with your license.

do you really want to compare and question that?

if so please explain.

what i do question is your motivation of your post. everything links directly to your personal website.

your k-60 cart, the exploding manholes. yet these were not sewer manholes we were questioning.

i too would enjoy some expert input you have to offer. but so far all i get is a very creative link to your personnel web site and seminars.

spend some time and contribute, not spam us with your hidden links.

that's my gripe.

rick.

your best post in my opinion is "hiring good help" that's the kind of input i would expect from you. the manhole thing was just too much b.s. for me.

[Frankiarmz]

While it's entertaining to read you guys playing testosterone tag, I maintain that anyone who is opening a lid to an undergound environment of any kind should not have an open souce of fire or spark with them. Traps, vents, casings, pipes and anything else you rely on to keep you safe are less dependable than your own good sense. Please use it and avoid doing stupid things to prove a point. Set a good example to others. Safety first!

[Ace Sewer]

I'll admit fire/explosion may well be a hazard and proper care should be taken, but I'd say a much more real danger with smoking in a manhole is getting sick; you are putting your hand to your mouth, and your hand probably has poop or worse on it.

[Frankiarmz]

I'll admit fire/explosion may well be a hazard and proper care should be taken, but I'd say a much more real danger with smoking in a manhole is getting sick; you are putting your hand to your mouth, and your hand probably has poop or worse on it.

Ace I agree that there are conditions equally hazardous to your health and others. Working in The Bronx I knew fecal matter from many different sources could find its way into our utility manholes along with an assortment of animal matter and chemicals. The walls of these sealed environments grew all sorts of fungus and spores. Aside from our own specific health risk we also need to think of the loved ones we come into contact with when we go home. I always told the new guys "wash your hands and clean under your nails before you touch your wife or children". I did not work on or in septic or drainage systems which have got to be similar or worse for health hazards. I have no problem working with a little poop whether it's from people or animals, it's the other stuff that concerns me. To all, please be safe this should not be a topic for argument.

[All Clear Sewer]

What are you guys talking about?? I always grab a big turd and fire it up :D It`s like an import cigar. The ones with peanuts are my favorite :D They just have a smother taste if you know what I mean ;)

:thisthreadisworthle

[westcoastplumber]

This subject always seems to pop up and shows the importance of getting all your shots, it's a pain and takes a series of them, but once your done, your all set up.

Helps, along with other measures of prevention like latex and if it is really bad, a mask.

[Frankiarmz]

This subject always seems to pop up and shows the importance of getting all your shots, it's a pain and takes a series of them, but once your done, your all set up.

Helps, along with other measures of prevention like latex and if it is really bad, a mask.

I got a story (hope I haven't told it here before), about twenty years ago I was sent to run a piece of cable through a basement in the South Bronx. When I got there I was met with about four splicers and another four linemen and two or three foremen. The defective cable ran through the basement of a Food Supermarket which had about a foot of water and raw sewerage from a big broken pipe toilet paper, turds and all. There was an odor but it was tolerable and the tide was calm. Being helpful minded I saw an unplugged sump pump and decided to lower the water line. Big mistake! As you guys know it's a bad thing to wake those sleepingturds up and they were angry. The water receeded and the turds fell apart unleashing a horrible stench. Guys started to vomit as they ran for the exit. I had a pretty bad head cold, so I took my time leaving the scene. The job was cancelled for several hours until some efforts to cleanup were made. Lesson learned, don't disturb the turds and leave that sump alone.:shocked2: