heater inducer motor not running

[yorkhvac]

Hi,

I have a York Stellar Single package heating and air conditioning (D3GA024N04206A) unit that fail to start. The circuit board LED blink 4 times which mean "Flue inducer centrifugal switch open". If I spin the inducer motor blade then the heater will start working. It will work for a couple of days and eventually the inducer motor will stop working again and need another blade spin. Does this mean the inducer motor is bad or something else cheaper?

Thanks

[Kneescar]

If the motor has a capacitor (some do, some don't) then you may be able to get lucky and get away with only replacing a capacitor. In my experience, though, you'll end up replacing the whole induced draft blower in the near future.

[NHMaster3015]

Sorry but you need a new motor

[Woussko]

Try connecting and leaving a test light to the motor connections. This way if it should be running but isn't you have an easy to see if power is being applied to the motor. If it is, you may as well figure on replacement.

Note: Use a low Wattage light bulb like 10 Watts or a neon test light. An analog (pointer type) AC Volt Meter would work too.

[plumberscrack]

Some inducer motors needs to be oiled. I'm not familiar with your particular one but you might find 1 or 2 very small oil ports on the motor. One at the back end and maybe one next to fan. Most people never oil them although some manu. tell you every 6 months. Might buy you some time but most likely needs to be replaced.

[yorkhvac]

I am so glad to find a site that answer my question. Really appreciate your help.

It seems the inducer motor does not have a capacitor. I checked the voltage going to the inducer motor from the circuit board and I don't see any voltage. However if I spin the inducer fan a couple of times then I see 240 voltage and the motor starts up. Is this a problem with the circuit board relay switch not applying the voltage to the inducer motor or the inducer motor being bad and the circuit board not being able to turn it on?

Thanks

[DuckButter]

If it were the relay, simply spinning the blower wouldn't intiate the motor.
The posts above have it covered, either lubricate it...or replace it.
You could also try testing the voltage at the motor when a T-stat is turned on, but again...the blower runs with a simple push start, it has juice.
The posts above have it covered, my money's on the motor on it's way out.

[Woussko]

240 Volts AC for a draft inducer motor??? This is a residential gas fired furnace, right? The only time I have seen a 240 Volt draft inducer motor is on large commercial boilers. Some are 3 phase and some single phase.

If you're comfortable working on this, try first shutting off power to the furnace and to play it safe close the gas valve too. Then disconnect the power wires for the draft inducer motor and put wire nuts on the ends of them. Next try to rig up a power cord so you can apply 120 Volts AC directly to the motor when you plug in the cord. Be sure to use wire nuts so you can't have things short out. Plug it in quick and if it does anything other than run nice, pull the plug fast. My bet is that it starts up and runs nice. If it does nothing, or just growls, then pull the plug and figure on replacing the motor. The above test is to be sure you do in fact have 120 Volts AC power right at the motor power connection which should be 2 wires. You need not worry about color codes other than never connect power to a green grounding wire. Most likely the motor has 2 black wires coming out of it.

Before you do this test, are there any other wires coming out of the motor? If no, then please try the test. If yes, then please tell more before trying the test.

Question: When you spin the motor does it spin easy and coast to a stop or is it real thick feeling?

[yorkhvac]

Hi,

Thank you for the reply and I did what you suggested. The motor spin with ease and slow to a smooth stop. I rigged up the inducer motor to 240 VAC straight from the HVAC unit and the inducer motor start right up. This really proves the motor still works if 240VAC voltage is put across the terminals.

I notice a bad 10uF 370VAC large round capacitor. Not certain if this capacitor is for the inducer motor. Should I replace the capacitor anyway?

It seems the problem is the circuit board since the voltage to the inducer motor from the circuit board is not 240VAC unless I spin the inducer motor blade. Is the relay stuck? I still don't understand why spinning the inducer motor cause the relay to kick in and put 240VAC to the inducer motor. Has the motor degrade to a point whereby the relay can't switch?

Any suggestion which parts I should replace first, the circuit board or inducer motor?

Five years ago I replaced the circuit board and the board cost around $100 from the local HVAC store. Now I can't buy the board since I am NOT an HVAC contractor. I checked the internet and the board now cost $269. Anyone an HVAC contractor can check how much a circuit board cost for this York model number D3GA024N04206A?

Thanks

[cbjuray]

If there is no voltage at the board terminals of the inducer fan, the relay on the board may be defective. You will have to replace the board if this is the problem. On a call for heat, the inducer fan motor is the first item energized. Then the pressure switch is activated by the pressure from the fan. Then 24V. is sent down stream to start the cycle.

[Woussko]

In a case where if you hand spin the motor, does it growl before you spin it? If yes, then I would sure try replacing the capacitor.

Do you have any good and easy way to post some pictures?

If the motor does start up well during the test where you apply power to the motor directly, that does seem like a bad relay or circuit board. Can you locate the power relay? If yes you might (Be sure power is totally off) try using some very fine sandpaper and clean the contacts with it. If you have one, you could maybe use a "Breaker Points" file. Good auto parts stores sell them. This would depend on what type of relay you have.

The capacitor shouldn't cost much to buy and replace so I would give it a try. Make sure to note the connections carefully. Look in your yellow pages under electric motor repair and rewinding. If you can buy from WW Grainger they sell them as catalog # 2GE79 but they are a PITA to deal with unless you have an account setup. Some good appliance parts dealers may well sell motor capacitors so it might be an idea to make a few calls before heading out. Does your capacitor look about like the one in the picture other than ratings?

Specs for 2GE79: Motor Run Capacitor, MFD Rating 10, Voltage 370, 60/50 Hz, Oval, Height 2 7/8 In, Width 2 3/16 In, Depth 1 5/16 In, EIA UL Base A, 1/4 In Male Terminals, Temp Range -40 to 69 C (online priced at $6.29 each)

If your capacitor looks like the second black one, please check the values again on it. The oval can type is a motor run capacitor and the specs are fine but normally the round type (like black one) are motor starting and will have a lower Voltage rating and much high MFD ratings. In any case it's a good idea to try new ones as they don't cost much, are easy to change and if bad will cause trouble.

[Woussko]

Just a wild idea but when the motor is connected up and should start, if you can locate the relay try a few taps with a plastic rod or wood dowel. Nothing metal.

If you can, try to get some good pictures of the circuit board and any relays on it. Note numbers too if you can.

[yorkhvac]

Hi,

Attach are the pictures of capacitors and circuit board. The circuit board number is 100-825-04 and the capacitor spec is as follow:
10uF 370VAC, +06 -06% 50/60Hz, 97F9002

Thanks

[Woussko]

Let's see if anyone comes back with info on the circuit board. As for the capacitor, I would try hard to obtain a new one (take old along with you) and install it. I sure don't see any heavy duty relays on the circuit board, but then an inducer motor (if anything like what I have in mind) wouldn't draw that much current. You need to be sure the connector (both parts) have clean contacting surfaces. Try inserting it and pulling it straight out and then inserting it several times. Then leave it in and see if that helped.

[yorkhvac]

Hi

Thank you so much for your help. I tried several times removing and inserting the connector to make sure it has good contact. It doesn't seem to help. This really looks like a circuit board. Any suggestion where to buy a York circuit board?

Thanks

[Ruudacguy]

I'm thinking maybe you have a faulty centrifugal switch. I dont have much experience with centrifugal switches, but I'm real sure it will be a normally open switch, which will close once the inducer starts running. The key here is that the circuit board needs to see that the CS is open before it will attempt to send power to the inducer, just like the operation of a unit with a vent pressure switch. I'm thinking maybe your CS is sticking closed. The circuit boards' need to see the switch open is a safety feature which prevents someone from 'jumpering out' the CS, or a vent pressure switch, if applicable.

My explanation sounds about as 'far out there' as your problem.

[yorkhvac]

Hi

Thank you so much for your help. I tried several times removing and inserting the connector to make sure it has good contact. It doesn't seem to help. This really looks like a circuit board. Any suggestion where to buy a York circuit board?

Thanks

[yorkhvac]

Hi Ruudacguy,

Thanks for the suggestions. I found the two CS switch wires going to the circuit board and pull one of the wire out and the motor start. I then put back the wire and normal heating sequence start. Your suggestion is right on the nose. Where do I buy the centrifugal switch for a York heater?

Thanks

[Ruudacguy]

I'm not even sure where I would buy York parts from, let alone in your area.

Whats weird is that your fault code says the CS is open. But yet you are opening the circuit by unplugging one of the wires. This whole thing would make alot more sense if the fault code said the CS was stuck closed.

Now I'm not so sure you dont have a circuit board issue.

Unplug the CS wires and probe them for continuity with the inducer motor not spinning, then again with it spinning. I'm not sure spinning it by hand will close the CS, you might have to put power to it. Or better yet, call a licensed contractor. If it is just the CS, it shouldnt cost much at all.

[Woussko]

I think that Ruudacguy is most likely correct that this seems like a bad circuit board.

Can you please post a picture of the inducer motor? I have yet to see one on any residential furnace that would have a centrifical starting switch inside it. The motors I've seen are either shaded pole or split capacitor type and thus don't have a starting switch. I'm at a loss as to where you could buy the circuit board at a reasonable price unless you can find a good YORK dealer in your area and maybe make friends with the owner there.

[Ruudacguy]

Woussko, the CS doesnt start the inducer, it proves to the PCB that the inducer did indeed start. From there the PCB can initiate the rest of the start-up and run sequence.

Right now Im about 80/20. 80% CS failure, 20% PCB.

[yorkhvac]

Hi Ruudacguy,

How can I confirm if it's circuit board or CS switch? I was able to remove the inducer motor from the HVAC and confirm the switch is located at the bottom of the motor. However I opened it last weekend and did not checked the switch. I will check the switch tomorrow to see if it is stuck on open or close. Could spinning the inducer motor cause the CS switch to open or close?

Thanks

[yorkhvac]

Hi Ruudacguy,

I checked the Ohm reading across the CS switch when the motor was running and when it flashes the error code. The Ohms meter shows 2.3 when the motor is running and shows 7.6 Ohms with the error code. Looks like the CS switch is stuck on close. Does this prove unequivocally the problem is the CS switch?

Now the really really hard part, where and how to buy the CS switch for my York HVAC?

Thanks

[Ruudacguy]

The ohm readings dont tell me anything. Does your meter have a diode check that will beep or flash when the 2 leads are connected together? We are just trying to determine if and when the CS is either opening or closing.

[yorkhvac]

Hi Ruudacguy,

Yes, the two leads are connected while the inducer motor running and when the error code is blinking. Looks like the two wires are always connected and never open.

Thanks

[Woussko]

Woussko heads to Woussko Hut and will shut up on this thread. I had something totally different in mind regarding the "CS" but now I get it. Ruud is much better at this than I am. Woussko - :running-dog:

[Ruudacguy]

Woussko heads to Woussko Hut and will shut up on this thread. I had something totally different in mind regarding the "CS" but now I get it. Ruud is much better at this than I am. Woussko - :running-dog:

Youre not leaving now, Were not even done yet. :D

York, I'm not talking about the leads of the CS, im talking about your meter leads checking whether the CS is opening and closing when it should. You really should consider calling a pro. A good tech could have this knocked out in a half hour.

[DuckButter]

LOL...Ruud true that.
I'm curious...any reason why the CS couldn't just be jumped to see if that IS the trouble?...thinking in terms of boiler safeties here....

[Ruudacguy]

Thats true Duck, on any type of temperature limit you can just jumper it out. Every flue inducer safety I have ever seen has to prove both open and closed though. Jumpering it out will only prove closed. All it is, is a simple circuit that shows a change of state when the inducer turns on. The PCB will see this circuit as either open or closed without a call for heat. Upon a call for heat, the CS will either open or close letting the PCB know something happened, and voila, the PCB is content to continue on with the rest of the process.

Indoor gas furnaces have a vent pressure switch which will be normally open. When the furnace is off, the switch will be open. The PCB will need to see the pressure switch open before it will send power to the inducer. If the pressure switch it stuck closed, or jumpered, it will not send power to the inducer.

The next thing that can happen is a pressure switch which sticks open. There, power will be sent to the inducer, but the PCB will not initiate the rest of the start-up sequence because the pressure switch did not close.

[yorkhvac]

Hi Ruddacguy,

Sorry, I was unclear. The CS stay close all the time.

Thanks,

[Ruudacguy]

If the CS is stuck closed, it needs to be replaced. That would make a little bit of sense as to why you are able to effectively 'push start' the inducer. It makes more sense that you are able to unplug one of the CS wires from the PCB and get the inducer to start when reattaching the wire. What doesnt make sense is your fault code says the CS circuit is open.

Now that you've troubleshooted this, do yourself a favor and get a pro out to fix it. This unit needs to have a once over done by a pro with a trained eye.

[Woussko]

Now that you've troubleshooted this, do yourself a favor and get a pro out to fix it. This unit needs to have a once over done by a pro with a trained eye.

Especially for SAFETY reasons

[yorkhvac]

Have to buy the whole motor since they don't sell the CS switch alone. Took 45 minutes to install and now works like a champ. Thank you all for the help.