Drain Equipment

[JCsPlumbing]

I've read the majority of the posts on drum vs. sectional, K50, K60 etc. My question is what drain cleaning equipment would you recommend if you RARELY encounter roots. Majority of stoppages I come across involve user error (paper products), no maintenance (grease etc), and old 1.5" to 2" galvanized closing up. So, what's the best bang for the buck to conquer these in you guys opinion?

[Service Guy]

I have a K380 drum machine for anything from 2" kitchen drains to 4" soft-sewer clogs. Its only good for 75 feet of 5/8" cable but its a good machine for the low price and light-weight.

[gear junkie]

drum-spartan 100
sectional-k-50

Both will do a fine job, the rest is personal prefence.

I would still get a K60, but that's just me.

[JCsPlumbing]

Any opinions on the General Wire PH Model. My local supplier carries it. They are a Ridgid dealer but don't currently have/carry any of their models.:mad:

[Crappy days]

When I started I was trained on and used Gorlitz for almost ten years. Since listening to members on the forum rave about there Ridgid machines, I started to switch brands. Know I have a two k 39 af for tubs, shower, lavatory and laundry lines. A k 3800 for kitchen stoppage's or longer secondary runs. A k 60 for any roof work . I still have my Gorlitz mainline machine although will eventually change that out for a k 7500. The thing I like about Ridgid is there easy connect system and the on line catalog. Makes things real easy to fix, when repairs or parts are needed. They are one of the more expensive drain machine brands, however just like anything you get what you pay for. I also have a k 50 in the garage. For overall work outside I would say the k 50 or k60. If you need a good enclosed drum for inside lines like kitchen, lavs , laundry k 3800 or k 50. However the k 50 is not going to handle roots to well.

[PLUMBER RICK]

I've read the majority of the posts on drum vs. sectional, K50, K60 etc. My question is what drain cleaning equipment would you recommend if you RARELY encounter roots. Majority of stoppages I come across involve user error (paper products), no maintenance (grease etc), and old 1.5" to 2" galvanized closing up. So, what's the best bang for the buck to conquer these in you guys opinion?

not sure about the best bang for the buck, as a k-60 with 5/8'' and 7/8'' cable will run you in the area of $1700-1800.

while a k3800 (commercial)will run around $1100. a k380 is an older machine and has been replaced by the k400 (homeowner), $400-500. the problem is a drum is ruff to take on a roof and the 3800/400 will run a 1/2'' cable max. 1/2'' is not very good for 4'' especially if you do encounter roots like most of us do.

i can write a book on the advantages of a sectional, k-60. i guess if you read back some, i've already done that:D

there is no doubt that if there is only 1 machine i could carry on my truck, it would be a k-60 without a doubt. with the selection of cables and cutters, you will have no problem doing lines from 1.5''- 6'' with and without roots. from inside a house/ building to outside to roof/ basement. there is not a place you can't take this little machine.

don't trust me, read what others have said;)

rick.

[Service Guy]

Rick, I have used the K60 and think its great. The only drawback I see, is using it in the house when a toilet has to be pulled to access the line. How do you handle that situation? I am asking because I will be ordering a good root-cutting machine soon, and the K60 is at the top of my list, but the drum machines seem more indoor friendly.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Rick, I have used the K60 and think its great. The only drawback I see, is using it in the house when a toilet has to be pulled to access the line. How do you handle that situation? I am asking because I will be ordering a good root-cutting machine soon, and the K60 is at the top of my list, but the drum machines seem more indoor friendly.

they are and they aren't.

today (sunday) i did a job on a house that 2 others walked away from. actually 1 walked and the second was asked to leave:D

sure i could have pulled the toilet, but the line was full in the toilets and tubs/ showers. so i chose the 3'' roof vent in the slight drizzling weather.

at 60' out i hit the stoppage. a combination of roots and baby wipes.

between looking for an access location, getting my ladder,machine and running the line 2 times, i was gone in 75 minutes without any mess or cleanup.

so how do i handle an inside job? i do if needed, but try to go from the outside or roof if need be.

a big drum machine is 250# and is not simple to fit inside of some bathroom layouts. the small k-60 will easily fit and the guide hose can actually loop around in the bathroom.

i use to be forced to bring in my k7500 into the house if there was no c/o. now i have a simple choice with the k60.

the roof is typically the easier, faster and cleaner choice.

rick.

[Service Guy]

Thanks, Rick. Its been a few years since I used one, but I remember they were WAY easier to use and carry than the big drums. I have been contemplating it a lot lately and your reply has convinced me to go with the K60 100%. Very versatile.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Thanks, Rick. Its been a few years since I used one, but I remember they were WAY easier to use and carry than the big drums. I have been contemplating it a lot lately and your reply has convinced me to go with the K60 100%. Very versatile.


hey drum guys, are you listening:confused:

what's the score between drum sales and sectional sales:confused:

if i had a dime for every k-60:D

once you get it, ask questions. there are plenty of guys here that know the sectional tricks. get good and proficient and come out to the roundup.

lets kick some drum butt:kma:

rick.

[Crappy days]

When is the round up.

[gear junkie]

I will admit that I wish I had a big drum machine inside (have a k3800). A k60 is no problem, just a little more prep work. I keep a canvas dropcloth in the truck and it does the trick. One good thing about the 60 inside is how small it is. Many houses here have the vanity partially blocking the door so you're not getting a drum machine in there unless you pick it up and I don't see that happening.

[Gene Bickford]

GLAD to see you back Gear. I thought you left us.:canoodle:

[gear junkie]

Thanks Gene, means alot.

[All Clear Sewer]

gear junkie I take my K-7500 inside small bathrooms all the time. The other day I pulled a 6` root ball out a closet bend :rolleyes: I know that your little K-60 couldn`t do it with out you pulling the He!! out of the cable. My K-7500 did all the pulling for me and it did take a while as it was 4" a round. ;)


BTW I dont get "KickBacks on the K-7500 like you do Rick on the K-60 ;) .....rotflmao

[Service Guy]

What about the K-1500, I have never used that one before. It seems superior to the K60?

[gear junkie]

Rick I take my K-7500 inside small bathrooms all the time.
You do realize that me and Rick are 2 different people? I mentioned the limited access in the bathroom. When you almost have to turn sideways, there's no way a 7500 will get in there. Trust me on this.

[All Clear Sewer]

If you want a main line machine you cant beat the K-7500 hands down!!!! Even Rick will tell ya that. Now the K-60 can do ....hummmmm some small stuff but I cant think of what I the "Drum King" would really need one for :D
I`ve wanted to demo one but cant seem to get my hand on one. I`ll most likely buy one but it will be like all my other small machines and set on the side lines because my K-7500 does just about every thing I need except the 1 1/2 and 2" stuff. Thats where My top Snake and My K-380 come in to play :D

[All Clear Sewer]

You do realize that me and Rick are 2 different people? I mentioned the limited access. When you almost have to turn sideways, there's no way a 7500 will get in there. Trust me on this.
Fixed ;)

If theres room for a W/C theres room for a K-7500 :D

BTW.... theres always the pipe deal to reach out and get to any drain ;) Trust me :D

[gear junkie]

Fixed ;)

If theres room for a W/C theres room for a K-7500 :D

BTW.... theres always the pipe deal to reach out and get to any drain ;) Trust me :D
But the wc doesn't have roll through the door. It's not a knock on you or the 7500 but it'll be difficult getting through some of these blocked doors.

[All Clear Sewer]

For some reason I have never had a bathroom I couldnt get to the closet bend. Yes, I have piped to it before but never had any real problem clearing a sewer. I always say if they have a W/C in there we can get to the closet bend one way or the other and clear the line. :shrug:

[gear junkie]

What about the K-1500, I have never used that one before. It seems superior to the K60?
It is the strongest sectional and is on par with a 7500.

[saysflushable]

I think I have the easiest drum machine to get in and out of basements and once it's there it works good, although the auto feed seems a little slow. For a drum machine it is the only one I would use unless some others come apart as fast and easy as mine. thats the most important to me. The only thing I have to show for proving how strong I WAS is a bad back. I never made more money, impressed anyone except myself or had a girl date me because of my moderate feets of strengh. lets face it if any of us gets a decent machine to a cleanout we will probebly get the water flowing and if we try hard enough we will most likely get the line cleaned good enough.

If I can do the job with a small light machine and I can have the cable in light sections and it will clear a drain of roots. I'm game to try it. unfortunatly I just bought my set up before I started reading this forum. Otherwise I'm sure I would have a sectional. For me almost all my jobs are in basements that are dirty enough I would worry more about my cables getting dirty on the cement floor then getting the basement dirty from spinning cables.:)

I guess the only way to end this aurgument is to have Rigid send me a machine. even if it's free I won't let that sway my judgement in there favor. :D

[gear junkie]

what kind of machine do you run?

[saysflushable]

I forgot to say with the machine I'm using I've always got the machine up to the closet flange and I've never had to take the toilet door off.

[saysflushable]

what kind of machine do you run?

Mytana M81 sled style. A lot like what Robert uses

[PLUMBER RICK]

BTW I dont get "KickBacks on the K-7500 like you do Rick on the K-60 ;) .....rotflmao


i wish i did get a kick back, i wouldn't have to spend my money and explain it to joey.

josh was at the last trade show and watched me plop down the money for the last k-60 with extra cables.

a k7500 is 50% more expensive than the k-60.

i think part of the reason i praise and brag about the k-60 is. i'm the only one out here that has one. when i go to a very large drain cleaning supply house, they don't carry anything for it. out west everything is drums.
my buddy doesn't have 1 sectional for 20 guys. yet i've done jobs for him that they couldn't get with their drums. both inside and roof top.

tomorrow, i have a job for a different plumber and he can't get it with his spartan 1065. i will be loading my jetter and 1500.

a great feature is the ability to know exactly your footage out to match your camera marks. i use this to home in on the problem roots.

now all clear, don't go out and buy a k-60 because i/we told you too.

wait till the ridgid roundup and let the k-60 speak for itself:D

rick.

[DUNBAR]

Mytana M81 sled style. A lot like what Robert uses


I get their catalogs because I bought attachments from them. They make a powerfeed that will go down to 1/4" that I was thinking of modifying my 81.

Going to make that a heavy ordeal but I was thinking a spring loaded detachable setup for a two wheeler that will let me operate the unit without having to set it on a counter, raise at any level and angle up or down to do laundry tub drains without using the top of a washing machine or board across the laundry tub.

I have a heavy double rug I put on the washing machine that makes good on protecting it. If it's a new machine, no way.

[All Clear Sewer]

I know Rick I just like to give you
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4213Mr__Hankey.jpg

[Ace Sewer]

I've read the majority of the posts on drum vs. sectional, K50, K60 etc. My question is what drain cleaning equipment would you recommend if you RARELY encounter roots. Majority of stoppages I come across involve user error (paper products), no maintenance (grease etc), and old 1.5" to 2" galvanized closing up. So, what's the best bang for the buck to conquer these in you guys opinion?


For the grease, a jetter will be an improvement over any snake. I tend to jet almost everything. The snake just won't cut ice. 4 of 5 jobs today were ice, one was grease. If I didn't have a jetter I'd have failed on 4 and done a less thorough job on the 5th.

For the paper products, a cable will be fine. For 1.5 and 2" galvanized, I think you will need a cable. In small galvy I cannot jet past one or 2 bends.

Drum vs sectional is probably mostly personal preference. I bet anyone here will admit (if pushed a little) that a quality job can be done with either.

Your biggest consideration will be choosing a size of cable. Pipe size, type, length of run, access and number of bends, and what you are usually fighting will tell you cable size. Can you do all your jobs with one size cable? If not (and I doubt it) you will either want multiple machines or a machine you can change cables on quickly. Despite my prference for jetting I find I carrry 3 cable machines, one with 2 sizes cable, to cover my needs.

I've given up on 'bang for the buck'. I want 'bang' for space in my van, space on the site, weight, cleanliness, versatility and reliability (insert K60 add here Rick). Price just doesn't even matter if it works for me.

[JCsPlumbing]

Thanks Ace! That was the most informative and straightforward answer for me.

[PLUMBER RICK]

I know Rick I just like to give you
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4213Mr__Hankey.jpg

all clear, it's funny you posted this.

about 7 years ago i changed 6 toilets for the production offices of "south park".

they actually had "mr hanky the christmas poo" sitting on a tank lid. when i lifted the lid to remove the toilet, mr hanky fell in:eek:

i never watched the show, but my friends kids filled me in on mr hanky;)

so truthfully, most of my customers give me poo:D

why would i expect anything different.

rick

[toolaholic]

Hey Ace ,why would someone put ICE down a drain????? Any of You West Coast Guys ever see ice , outside of a gin mill ????????

[drtyhands]

Tons of it.Usually at night when the slush freezes.The whole mountain is covered in it.Hard to cut an edge into it.Hard on the tailbone,hips and elbows.

[dirtydog]

Wow i see alot of you guys are still stuck on useing the drum machines to clean sewer lines out. What it takes you 1hr to 2 hrs to do a sewer. I use the cables and I use a 1/2 drill that i hook up to the cables. The cables are wrapped up in a regular car tire. It takes me 30 to 40 mins to do a sewer. By the time you roll down that heavy drum machine down the stairs i would have already finished the sewer. i can push out atleast 200 ft of cable with the 1/2 drill. If you like ask me and i will show you how to hook up this system its easy and cheap.

[Crappy days]

Wow i see alot of you guys are still stuck on useing the drum machines to clean sewer lines out. What it takes you 1hr to 2 hrs to do a sewer. I use the cables and I use a 1/2 drill that i hook up to the cables. The cables are wrapped up in a regular car tire. It takes me 30 to 40 mins to do a sewer. By the time you roll down that heavy drum machine down the stairs i would have already finished the sewer. i can push out atleast 200 ft of cable with the 1/2 drill. If you like ask me and i will show you how to hook up this system its easy and cheap.

There was a post just a few days ago with pictures of what you are talking about.

[drtyhands]

There was a post just a few days ago with pictures of what you are talking about.
Yep,Gene Bickford's little gal.I think Plumber Rick is in violation of patent rights.

[Crappy days]

Yep,Gene Bickford's little gal.I think Plumber Rick is in violation of patent rights.

What thread was it.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Yep,Gene Bickford's little gal.I think Plumber Rick is in violation of patent rights.

mine is a wolf in sheep's clothing. actually a timberwolf with clutch at 300 rpm.

i used it yesterday on a 110' run with 1.25'' cable. the plumber i did it for wasn't able to get his spartan 1065 drum cable through the root mass.

still had a workout in the 80+ weather on the pool deck.

rick.

[buyfield]

I've been running k60 for three or four weeks now, thanks to this forum. Got it because (1)easier to load, (2) prefer roofs to pulling toilets, most of the time, and (3) based on rave reviews here, wanted to give it a ($2000) try.

3800 has been my roof machine, but cannot exceed 90'. Also, 90' of 1/2 is harder to get on roof than K60.

Will keep using 7500 for now. If I decide I really love the k60, I will get a 1500.

So how do I like the K60 so far?

Have used in garage, but not bathroom so far. Ironically, takes more room than the 7500 because the I keep the cable reel up at the front of the machine. Not smart enough to figure out another system yet. Even in front yards, cleanouts often crowded with landscaping--the k60 requires a little more back strain than I had envisioned (having to put the reel in less than ideal place). But of course the plumbing code requires clearance around cleanout, so that's not the 60's fault.

So, it does take more room.

Secondly, the handle/lever doesn't spring back quite as automatically as I would like, but maybe I'm not doing something quite right.

Thirdly, and this is my main concern with the 60, but I'm sure it's undue, or else Rick and others wouldn't like it so much: the open wind cable, especially the 7/8, "threads itself" into the sewer, especially if there are 90s, and the moreso the further down stream said 90s are--and so while it goes in pretty easy, the trip back out is quite a bit harder, and nerve racking. With my inner core cable, I can usually just drag all 100' back out without spinning the drum at all--it doesn't catch on edges. Not that I drag all 100' out without spinning the drum, but I'm more at ease about going another 20' or 30', especially when I think I'm entering the city main, when I can tug back on the cable every few feet to verify than I'm still okay. Once the 7/8 open wind gets in a good ways, no more tugging--it's threaded in, and it's going to have to be threaded back out.

Which has nothing (?) to do with the k60 perhaps, but only the cable type, but Ridgid only lists open wind with the sectionals, and not inner core.

It's probably not a concern to anyone else in this forum, which is fine, but that's the part about the K60 that gives me some pause. I don't mind that the cable is in sections. I don't mind the setup. I don't mind having a hose handy to keep the cable from overheating. I don't mind getting my hands dirtier. But getting stuck--that's the part that gets my attention. I've never had to retrieve a broken cable, but if it's not just broke, but caught on something, I'm not sure how a retrieving auger is going to get it unstuck, and I'm not sure how digging up the street or the driveway is going to be cheap.

I don't doubt that open wind cleans better, or that sectionals provide better feel and control. They are definitely easier to load and get on roofs, and to know how far you're in. But I'll sacrifice all of that to not get stuck. Inner core may not go in as easy as open wind, but it does seem to come out easier.

On straight runs with wye branch cleanout fittings, the 7/8 open wind does great. But when the second rate plumber uses 90s instead of 45s, and cost-saving cleanout fittings, suddenly better cleaning is not my problem. But getting my cable back out is.

I get my auger heads caught in cast iron several times a month. Very stressful. In fact, I'm constantly debating spear head, or auger head. spear head, or auger head. Spear head can't make the turn, and get in a bind, but auger head wraps around something.

The 60 is all I carry for outside snaking since I've gotten it, and so far, 7500 is just resting back at the house. That's the main reason I bought the 60. So, it's doing well in that regard. I do think it cleans better.

It clears the drain, and it's easier to carry. It'll take a while to decide exactly how much I like it. At this very early stage, I still probably prefer foot pedals and inner core to hand levers and open wind. But transport--wow, the 60 is nice. No one need be offended--I'm brand new with it. I'll always have to have it for roofs, so if nothing else, I'm glad to have it for that.

I know this has been discussed elsewhere, but one other moderate concern is the ease with which the sectional cable can escape down into the sewer. I understand that you take steps to secure the cable (looping it into the riser, etc), but the point I tried to make elsewhere was that if in the process of securing it, you let go for one second, in many cases it will be gone. Not just on roofs, but even straight runs of plastic down at the yard cleanout. And I don't mean just sort of gone, but with that much weight, really gone. It's just a little harder to rest easy.

But regardless, I'm glad I'm trying it, and if it turns out I don't like the 60, no biggie.

[PLUMBER RICK]

buyfield, so how do you like it so far:D

there is a definite learning curve with this new style of a machine. i actually find it much easier to pull out a cable with the sectional as it is more flexible than a drum and you don't have to wind it into the drum. if i do get in a bind. i will just insert it into the machine and spin it a little bit. if need be it can be run in reverse if you really get stuck.

you might want to lay out your cable on the ground if need be to allow for quicker access.

outside i very rarely use my rear guide hose as long as i'm not in the ivy or loose plants.

read and ask as there are plenty of seasoned pros who know the k-60 tricks.

rick.

[Service Guy]

That was a great review Buyfield...thanks for all the info.

[gear junkie]

Ironically, takes more room than the 7500 because the I keep the cable reel up at the front of the machine. Not smart enough to figure out another system yet. I'm working on this, just wait, when I get done, I bet I get a Ridgid catalog out of this. I know, don't hold your breath.

Secondly, the handle/lever doesn't spring back quite as automatically as I would like, but maybe I'm not doing something quite right. Mine pops right back up when I let go, hmm?

Which has nothing (?) to do with the k60 perhaps, but only the cable type, but Ridgid only lists open wind with the sectionals, and not inner core. General makes some and they work great though they are heavy. I just bought 4 sections for 160 from cable center.

I get my auger heads caught in cast iron several times a month. Very stressful. In fact, I'm constantly debating spear head, or auger head. spear head, or auger head. Spear head can't make the turn, and get in a bind, but auger head wraps around something. The key is to constantly pull back and forth with the cable, you can't just feed foward.


I did a job today after another plumber with a spartan 300 gave up. I had to trip in 4 times to clean the line 90'. I filled the bottom 12" of a 5 gal bucket with baby wipes. And the cause of the stoppage? A broken piece of a toilet flange.

[gear junkie]

outside i very rarely use my rear guide hose as long as i'm not in the ivy or loose plants.
What i started to do is lay the guide hose on the right side of the machine but don't connect it, just let it lie there. When you run the cable, it'll want to curl to the right but it will hit the guide hose. As long as the cable doesn't curl up, it won't grab to much. When it curls up up, that's when you get the grass balls.

[buyfield]

"General makes some and they work great though they are heavy. I just bought 4 sections for 160 from cable center."

Gear Junkie: Maybe that's what I ought to look into. But does anyone know why Ridgid only likes open wind for the sectionals? Are the innercore harder on the machine? Is open wind more suitable for the 600rpm? Are open wind considered easier to handle for the operator?

The key is to constantly pull back and forth with the cable, you can't just feed foward.

Thanks. Sounds like that might help. What would help even more is for the plumber who installs the system to bear in mind that the reason sanitary sewers are regulated by government is for health, and that likewise the reason sewer/drain lines be easy to clean is not for the convenience of the next plumber but for health, and that therefore the reason you would use two 45s and not a 90, and that you would have cleanouts accessible outside, and cleanouts downstream of ptraps, and wye branch fittings on cleanouts, and cleanouts above, not below, grade, and 3" cleanouts for 3" lines, not 2" cleanouts for 3" lines, is not for the convenience of the next plumber, but for health. One option is to jackhammer, rip up flooring, or dig big holes, and remove and replace the stopped up piping. And then there's always that other option, which I've heard of here and there, which is to have ready access to the stopped up lines to where you can just run steel cables and such down the line. Intriguing idea. Sort of like how intriguing it would be if, instead of having to pull a toilet full to the rim with some sort of blackish bad smelling stuff, if you could just, say, have ready access to the line from the outside.

Probably very naive, right? Sort of like how naive it is to expect him to get the flange 12" off the wall instead of 10.75". Good grief, now that's asking a lot, to get that extra 1 1/4". Never mind that 12.5 or 13 or 13.5 or 14 would be perfectly fine. No, let's make it 10.75, so that the tank will have to lean for the next forty years.

All right, I'm through.http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[gear junkie]

buyfield-check your private messages

[buyfield]

Ben. Oh my goodness. Didn't know there was such a thing. Thanks!

[PLUMBER RICK]

the open wind cable serves a couple of purposes.

#1 it is more flexible than a tight wind. try storing a 3/4'' inner core inside of the 7/8'' carrying cage.

#2 it cleans much better than a tight wind.

the cutter is for cutting. but the open wind cable acts a continuous auger and will help to clean the line of roots, grease, lint, dirt.

when i used drums, the cables would typically come back fairly clean. sure i would tangle some roots on the tight wind. but with sectionals, i bring back much more roots, baby wipes.


rick.

[buyfield]

Rick, am I hearing you to say that Ridgid knows open wind is better, but that the drum machine has to settle for innercore? (Because open wind would get meshed together in the drum? Because . . . ?)

Which is to say, drum machines are a compromise: don't clean as well, but . . . (easier to use). ???

Just talked to Ben: he mentioned another advantage of open wind: I had to snake through a 4" lead bend yesterday. Open wind probably easier on it.

And an advantage of the K60 is that it's going to stall before it ruins a cable. I wasn't used to that, having always run universal motors, but have had my K60 stall a couple of times. Whereas perhaps a 1500 running 7/8 might more likely ruin cable.

Rick: I'll try to give a full review of the 60 ASAP.

Tim

[simplicity]

hey drum guys, are you listening:confused:

what's the score between drum sales and sectional sales:confused:

if i had a dime for every k-60:D

once you get it, ask questions. there are plenty of guys here that know the sectional tricks. get good and proficient and come out to the roundup.

lets kick some drum butt:kma:

rick.
It's been a while since I've talked sewer.........
My Dad was a career Roto-Rooter man and used those
assemble on site machines and they worked fine
but left an awful mess.
I worked for Roto-Rooter myself for a period of time
with the same machines. But............................

After working for another service that provided the Spartan drums
I wouldn't use anything but a drum machine.
I think they're much more efficient and no doubt cleaner for the
customers home, which means you're not wiping sewer water
off everything in the work area. Just my opinion.:)
My brother and I are starting a drain service in eastern Wis.
and we're going drum style all the way.
To me the only real good applications for the "cage" as I call it,
are boiler rooms and commercial parking garages.
There's too many places where you have to keep it tidy.

[Service Guy]

It's been a while since I've talked sewer.........
My Dad was a career Roto-Rooter man and used those
assemble on site machines and they worked fine
but left an awful mess.
I worked for Roto-Rooter myself for a period of time
with the same machines. But............................

After working for another service that provided the Spartan drums
I wouldn't use anything but a drum machine.
I think they're much more efficient and no doubt cleaner for the
customers home, which means you're not wiping sewer water
off everything in the work area. Just my opinion.:)

Sectionals are not that messy, and a good canvas dropcloth elimintes the problem.

[simplicity]

hey drum guys, are you listening:confused:

what's the score between drum sales and sectional sales:confused:

if i had a dime for every k-60:D

once you get it, ask questions. there are plenty of guys here that know the sectional tricks. get good and proficient and come out to the roundup.

lets kick some drum butt:kma:

rick.

not sure about the best bang for the buck, as a k-60 with 5/8'' and 7/8'' cable will run you in the area of $1700-1800.

while a k3800 (commercial)will run around $1100. a k380 is an older machine and has been replaced by the k400 (homeowner), $400-500. the problem is a drum is ruff to take on a roof and the 3800/400 will run a 1/2'' cable max. 1/2'' is not very good for 4'' especially if you do encounter roots like most of us do.

i can write a book on the advantages of a sectional, k-60. i guess if you read back some, i've already done that:D

there is no doubt that if there is only 1 machine i could carry on my truck, it would be a k-60 without a doubt. with the selection of cables and cutters, you will have no problem doing lines from 1.5''- 6'' with and without roots. from inside a house/ building to outside to roof/ basement. there is not a place you can't take this little machine.

don't trust me, read what others have said;)

rick.

while a k3800 (commercial)will run around $1100. a k380 is an older machine and has been replaced by the k400 (homeowner), $400-500. the problem is a drum is ruff to take on a roof and the 3800/400 will run a 1/2'' cable max. 1/2'' is not very good for 4'' especially if you do encounter roots like most of us do.

Are you trying tell us you're pulling roots through the roof?

[PLUMBER RICK]

.

Are you trying tell us you're pulling roots through the roof?

are you doubting my statement:confused:

do a little reading and look at some of the prior photos i've taken.

then if you have questions, i'll be glad to answer them.

unlike roto rooter, i do go on roofs and i do get the job done. all by myself. most of the guys here are 1 man shows. we all have our tricks and our favorite machines. mine and some others happen to be a k-60.
don't knock it till you try it.

rick.

[simplicity]

I'm not doubting your ability.
I've just never seen roots come through a roof vent.
Just crious?(yes I'm being a wise ***):D
Unless of course you've actually done it.
Would be a new one to me!
I haven't completely figured out the web site
navigation but I'm working on it.
Look for my posts as we'll have lots of fun
talking S++T!
I started a new thread. Would like to hear your input
on "so....I commited to a new buisness"

[DUNBAR]

I've been running k60 for three or four weeks now, thanks to this forum. Got it because (1)easier to load, (2) prefer roofs to pulling toilets, most of the time, and (3) based on rave reviews here, wanted to give it a ($2000) try.

3800 has been my roof machine, but cannot exceed 90'. Also, 90' of 1/2 is harder to get on roof than K60.

Will keep using 7500 for now. If I decide I really love the k60, I will get a 1500.

So how do I like the K60 so far?

Have used in garage, but not bathroom so far. Ironically, takes more room than the 7500 because the I keep the cable reel up at the front of the machine. Not smart enough to figure out another system yet. Even in front yards, cleanouts often crowded with landscaping--the k60 requires a little more back strain than I had envisioned (having to put the reel in less than ideal place). But of course the plumbing code requires clearance around cleanout, so that's not the 60's fault.

So, it does take more room.

Secondly, the handle/lever doesn't spring back quite as automatically as I would like, but maybe I'm not doing something quite right.

Thirdly, and this is my main concern with the 60, but I'm sure it's undue, or else Rick and others wouldn't like it so much: the open wind cable, especially the 7/8, "threads itself" into the sewer, especially if there are 90s, and the moreso the further down stream said 90s are--and so while it goes in pretty easy, the trip back out is quite a bit harder, and nerve racking. With my inner core cable, I can usually just drag all 100' back out without spinning the drum at all--it doesn't catch on edges. Not that I drag all 100' out without spinning the drum, but I'm more at ease about going another 20' or 30', especially when I think I'm entering the city main, when I can tug back on the cable every few feet to verify than I'm still okay. Once the 7/8 open wind gets in a good ways, no more tugging--it's threaded in, and it's going to have to be threaded back out.

Which has nothing (?) to do with the k60 perhaps, but only the cable type, but Ridgid only lists open wind with the sectionals, and not inner core.

It's probably not a concern to anyone else in this forum, which is fine, but that's the part about the K60 that gives me some pause. I don't mind that the cable is in sections. I don't mind the setup. I don't mind having a hose handy to keep the cable from overheating. I don't mind getting my hands dirtier. But getting stuck--that's the part that gets my attention. I've never had to retrieve a broken cable, but if it's not just broke, but caught on something, I'm not sure how a retrieving auger is going to get it unstuck, and I'm not sure how digging up the street or the driveway is going to be cheap.

I don't doubt that open wind cleans better, or that sectionals provide better feel and control. They are definitely easier to load and get on roofs, and to know how far you're in. But I'll sacrifice all of that to not get stuck. Inner core may not go in as easy as open wind, but it does seem to come out easier.

On straight runs with wye branch cleanout fittings, the 7/8 open wind does great. But when the second rate plumber uses 90s instead of 45s, and cost-saving cleanout fittings, suddenly better cleaning is not my problem. But getting my cable back out is.

I get my auger heads caught in cast iron several times a month. Very stressful. In fact, I'm constantly debating spear head, or auger head. spear head, or auger head. Spear head can't make the turn, and get in a bind, but auger head wraps around something.

The 60 is all I carry for outside snaking since I've gotten it, and so far, 7500 is just resting back at the house. That's the main reason I bought the 60. So, it's doing well in that regard. I do think it cleans better.

It clears the drain, and it's easier to carry. It'll take a while to decide exactly how much I like it. At this very early stage, I still probably prefer foot pedals and inner core to hand levers and open wind. But transport--wow, the 60 is nice. No one need be offended--I'm brand new with it. I'll always have to have it for roofs, so if nothing else, I'm glad to have it for that.

I know this has been discussed elsewhere, but one other moderate concern is the ease with which the sectional cable can escape down into the sewer. I understand that you take steps to secure the cable (looping it into the riser, etc), but the point I tried to make elsewhere was that if in the process of securing it, you let go for one second, in many cases it will be gone. Not just on roofs, but even straight runs of plastic down at the yard cleanout. And I don't mean just sort of gone, but with that much weight, really gone. It's just a little harder to rest easy.

But regardless, I'm glad I'm trying it, and if it turns out I don't like the 60, no biggie.



I was busting out laughing reading this, had to go back and make a point of dragging this up because this is why I went to drums and never looked back.


What is with a hose keeping the cables cool....


and this issue with losing cables in drains.........non-existent with a drum; it's bolted back inside the drum on the larger cables.

That reversing the cable out of a drain is so simplistic on a drum, this mention above is something I wouldn't want to do for a living, every day working my upper body in this fashion.

Lots of guys won't even use the machine to even feed it into the drain; they'll just hand bang it and take it all the way up to the point it stops with the clog, clutch it so it spins and clears the drain and either sit in one spot or pull back.


What isn't mentioned is that when you clip all those cables together, you have to physically take them all back apart one by one every 15' because you have nothing to reel back into collecting that nasty cable you just cleared the line with.

I'm not buying that all clogs are clear water clogs; that's BS. Get a flat line sewer or one with a belly and that cable is horrendous black, old sewage. Sounds inviting but your first pass doesn't mean it opens on the first try.

NOW think about all those nasty cables you're putting back in those bike tires that are not only smelly and dirty, the homeowner is looking at you like your job is as dangerous as a window cleaner at the eiffle tower.


Sectionals above is one of the reasons why I never pursued a sewer camera; it's all a hand pushing ordeal, all of it. I watched a fellow one day push 40' with his camera and this guy basically told me "Do this 12 times a day and you are physically spent". Ouchies.


Okay I'm done on this thread for a bit.....I know the replies coming, I'm glad I got smarter than the machine in my age and do less physical work when it comes to rodding drains.


:welcome:

[DUNBAR]

Wow i see alot of you guys are still stuck on useing the drum machines to clean sewer lines out. What it takes you 1hr to 2 hrs to do a sewer. I use the cables and I use a 1/2 drill that i hook up to the cables. The cables are wrapped up in a regular car tire. It takes me 30 to 40 mins to do a sewer. By the time you roll down that heavy drum machine down the stairs i would have already finished the sewer. i can push out atleast 200 ft of cable with the 1/2 drill. If you like ask me and i will show you how to hook up this system its easy and cheap.




1 to 2 hours?



14 minutes, I timed myself just for you today, I just took pause in responding because I knew this main drain I was doing today was my last call, didn't want to be premature like ejaculate, ya know. :idea:


I one handed my machine from my lift gate on my truck down a sloping hill, put my bootie covers on and in I go to the cleanout right at the wall. Flooded the system till I got a 2-3' puddle going at the floor drain, foot on the switch and push 3" on my powerfeed and magic, the cable feeds itself into the drain, makes all turns of directions while I watch the cable, not touching it until I watch it start to rise up out of the drain.


As soon as it started to climb I put my hand on it and slightly pushed, the motor sounded different for about 3 seconds and out of the corner of my eye the water puddle 10' feet away has a hole in the center of it.....


drain is open and now I'm reeling my electric cord back up faster than you can read this response. We collect the "evidence" of what was a cheese cloth wipe rag the house cleaners thought was funny to throw down the drain. The homeowner is sending the company the bill for my time, rightfully so. We put the pieces that came off the end of the cable in a ziplock bag, nothing better than showing them the proof it's theirs.


I felt so damn guilty, I doubled out twice just so it didn't look like I was stealing candy from a baby. Lately I've been doing drain cleaning with one knee down and one up, the knee down I protect with a brand new roll of paper towels I didn't take out of the wrapper till I have to clean what is usually a super mininal mess from the cable only being 2-3' out of the machine into the drain. Running that cable, spinning while they flood the system after you get it open is nice because you don't even need to worry about mess;

draw the cable back into the drum, take it back to the truck and when you get home, unplug the drum and let it drain.


14 minutes, best $145 made and I carried a 2' aluminum pipe wrench, my cleated gloves, roll of paper towels and that machine. 1 trip down and one trip back, had a half hour involved and that was writing the bill and giving candy to the little son and daughter.


I'm timing my next ten for you, maybe video my but wigglin' when I walk to and from the drain. :smack-head:

[Service Guy]

Dunbar, that was one of the best pro-drum stories I have heard. They certainly can be quick, the main detraction I have is their weight and lack of versatility. I am still on the fence, I created a poll!:D

[PLUMBER RICK]

what dunbar forgets to tell you is that he only takes the easy ones.

i take everything from simple to the impossible. the ones that others fail at. the ones that others don't want to do.

if all i did was the simple ones, who would do the tuff ones?

when it comes to the ridgid roundup, dunbar will be at ground level while i'll be going from the basement to the roof with my k-60.

rick.

[Service Guy]

what dunbar forgets to tell you is that he only takes the easy ones.

i take everything from simple to the impossible. the ones that others fail at. the ones that others don't want to do.

if all i did was the simple ones, who would do the tuff ones?

when it comes to the ridgid roundup, dunbar will be at ground level while i'll be going from the basement to the roof with my k-60.

rick.

Exactly, thats what I meant by "lack of versatility."