Gurgling kitchen sink

[quickshot]

I have a dual kitchen sink with a disposal on the right hand side and is plumbed as in the included picture, there is a diverter tee in which the disposal dumps in. When water is run into either sink it gurgles in the other sink. If a sink of water is in the right hand sink [disposer side and the disposal is ran the water comes up in the left hand sink and is a sink full of water is released from the left hand sink it comes up in the right hand one. All fittings are new and there is a studor vent [ do not think it is a Studor but a mechanical vent] in the tee in the rear. Should a different fitting have been used instead of the tee? Below the tee attached to the 18" pc of 2" is a elbow and then it runs 15' and taps into the 4" main line. Any help appreciated.

quickshothttp://james-skinner.zftp.com/ALL/Media/sink.jpg

[JCsPlumbing]

That is not an "approved" mechanical vent. Replace it with the expensive one. :)

[JCsPlumbing]

And you might want to put a wye in the horizontal so you can give each side it's own individual trap.

[NHMaster3015]

That is not an "approved" mechanical vent. Replace it with the expensive one. :)

And it will probably still gurgle.

[JCsPlumbing]

Final reply, that looks like 1.5" for the drain on the vertical. NO, NO, NO. Especially on a kitchen sink. At least in my opinion. Make it 2". Should have put all of this in one post but I looked at it again.

[JCsPlumbing]

LOL! NH. Maybe he can get that guy in Canada to help him run a Bow Vent.:)

[plumberscrack]

The trap should be under the disposal not the basket strainer

[quickshot]

I HAD this done by our local plumber who is in the Vet's hospital right now with cancer, I would have went back to him if I could of. In our town in NW Nebraska we had only the one plumber, the closest one now is 50 miles. I am sorry I asked but thought this was ask the experts for advice.

[JCsPlumbing]

Why are you sorry you asked? Anyone can make a mistake.

Most what are called "good" plumbers make an effort to not use AAVs. (i.e. Studor Vents) But maybe you had a situation where this is the only choice. I don't know. But this is not a complicated fix.

Very sorry to hear about your plumber/friend that has cancer. We have a friend/plumber on the forum with the same battle. Don't be sorry for asking. Didn't mean to offend. But you can correct this fairly easily if it's really bothering you.:)

[PLUMBER RICK]

couple of questions?

is this a new installation?

has it been gurgling since it was first installed?

have you tried snaking the line?

if the line is clear, i would remove the studor vent and try running the water again. if all is ok, it's the studor vent that is not allowing enough air in to vent.

also i never use tube traps on a kitchen sink. plus the waste lines should be on a 2'' line with a 1.5'' trap.

rick.

[quickshot]

couple of questions?

is this a new installation?
Yes and no--I moved my house into town in 1971 and it had no plumbing or electricity--I had some plumbers who were doing our new Hospital addition at the time plumb the house for me on there time off-originally the drain was the same from the sink to the back of the cabinet-you can see in the picture attached that a line is capped, that was the original drain running horz for 6',an 90° ell and running horz for 15' into a line coming from my washer and bathtub-that line plugged up this year and I had a plumber in and he could not clear the line and ran a new one the way you see it now. It had always gurgled in my bathtub but never in the sinks.
has it been gurgling since it was first installed?
Yes
have you tried snaking the line?
I did and it is clear, I did check the size and it is a 1 1/2" drain line and connects to a 4"x4"x1 1/2" Tee-going into it with a 1 1/2" 90° ell
if the line is clear, i would remove the studor vent and try running the water again. if all is ok, it's the studor vent that is not allowing enough air in to vent.
Will this allow water to gush out of the line where the vent was?
also i never use tube traps on a kitchen sink. plus the waste lines should be on a 2'' line with a 1.5'' trap.
So I should replace the 1 1/2" line with a 2" line and the 1 1/4" trap with a 1 1/2" trap-- what about a wye and a 45° where the tee is now? And the 1 1/2" fitting where it connects to the 4" line??
rick.

I drive the veterans handi-bus on a volunteer basis twice a month and take patients to Hot Springs Vet. Hosp. which is 90 miles away or Ft. Meade which is 180 miles and will be doing this soon so I will try and bring this up if I see my plumber but hated to harass him at this time and would rather just let it go. We can live with it but just annoying. I done all the work on my house except the plumbing and I have had a lot of problems form the get go.http://james-skinner.zftp.com/ALL/Media/oldline.jpg

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Just thought I would include [I hope this is not a no no] of the house when I moved it in and what it is like now. I did everything except the plumbing and the acre lot I have was weeds.http://james-skinner.zftp.com/ALL/Media/house.jpghttp://james-skinner.zftp.com/ALL/Media/image7.jpg

[PLUMBER RICK]

i would still try to remove the studor vent and see how it drains.

could be an air lock, sort of like the old days with an oil can. it took 2 holes to properly pour. 1 hole will cause it to spurt:idea:

hopefully i don't need to explain to the young guys that oil use to come in a cardboard quart with a metal top and bottom:smack-head:

i still have some vintage cans at the shop:D

rick.

[quickshot]

I will try that tomorrow as it is late for me now. I have some glass oil dispensers with a screw on top and some solid metal cans in the shop and remember the oil spout that you pushed in the top to pour with. My brother had a Mobil Oil station and my father-in-law was a Mobil Oil bulk distributor. Thanks for your replies and I will post tomorrow evening on what happens. Thanks again.

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[westcoastplumber]

The line sounds like it is stopped up past the santee. this would cause the other side to fill up. I see it all the time on k/s stoppages.

The set up you have is fine, it will drain, I agree, it is not how I would have done it, but it will work. 2" verticle would have been great, and is required UPC here.

I see tube traps on kitchen sinks all the time, They drain perfectly, so no worries on that.

Sorry about your friend.

[westcoastplumber]

Just read your post.

11/4 is horrible on a kitchen sink.

put in 2" waste and an 11/2 trap.

you are sure the trap is clear??

[MrsSeatDown]

i would still try to remove the studor vent and see how it drains.

could be an air lock, sort of like the old days with an oil can. it took 2 holes to properly pour. 1 hole will cause it to spurt:idea:

hopefully i don't need to explain to the young guys that oil use to come in a cardboard quart with a metal top and bottom:smack-head:

i still have some vintage cans at the shop:D

rick.

I resemble that remark. . .I never knew that:eek:

[PLUMBER RICK]

I resemble that remark. . .I never knew that:eek:


joey, when was the last time you checked the oil:confused:

no less, added oil:banghead:

everytime i do it while you're in the car, you honk the horn:shocked2:

rick.

[quickshot]

I took the P-trap off and inserted a Drain King balloon fixture in the stub pipe on the santee and hooked to a garden hose and it flushed right thru with no blockages--let it run for several minutes. I then reassembled things and removed the cheap AAV and there was no gurgling or backing up of water in either sink, I filled the sink with on the disposer side and ran the disposer and went right down with no backup or sound. I will order a better vent, a Studor mini-vent maybe?? or what. I have replace the cheap vent for the time being. Thanks to all for your help and answers. Let me know what is the best vent to use in this situation as this is an island sink.

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[JCsPlumbing]

Both Rick and WestCoast are basically right. Plumbing exerts both positive and negative pressure. A vent allows this to occur while allowing things to drain properly. An AAV (Studor Vent) does not allow the positive pressure.

Basically, it's a one way valve. If there is a restriction in the line, the symptoms you're having will occur. A restriction can be a clog OR an undersized line in my experience. So when you remove the AAV, you allow somewhere for the positive pressure to go.

So what do you do? This is my opinion, remove the vent you have and run several gallons (15 gals.?) of water in the line. If it does not back up then we'll presume you don't have a clog.

Replace the vent with one rated 5 dfu or above. (Oatey, Studor etc.) This may NOT correct the problem in that you may not have adequate pipe size to displace the air/water volume for the vent to "catch up".

If replacing the vent does not correct things, then you should put a wye in the horizontal and put a p-trap on the disposal and the strainer on the other side. Two separate traps.

You could reverse the trap and put it on the disposal but I think the two traps would be better with a little more effort.

Hope this helps. You can do it.

J.C.

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Thanks JCs for your comments, I appreciate your reply and everyone else also. I will try some things that were suggested in the next week or two and reply back later. Thanks again.

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[haycad]

The trap should be under the disposal not the basket strainer
why should it be under the disposal?

[haycad]

1 plumber in 50 miles im moving to nebraska. :D we have more plumbers than a$$ holes in my neck of the woods

[quickshot]

We have some carpenters who "are" plumbers and maintenance people at our packing plant who "are" also but only one plumbing business. You can drive south for 54 miles before you hit a town, go north 125 miles to Rapid City,SD [2 small reservation towns in between],go west 50 miles to Chadron,Ne. or east 92 miles to Valentine,Ne. A dying part of Nebraska and we are struggling to save our hospital and will probably fail. If you get sick its a flight for life to Rapid City, I have had 2 heart attacks so I know the drill,ha.

[haycad]

We have some carpenters who "are" plumbers and maintenance people at our packing plant who "are" also but only one plumbing business. You can drive south for 54 miles before you hit a town, go north 125 miles to Rapid City,SD [2 small reservation towns in between],go west 50 miles to Chadron,Ne. or east 92 miles to Valentine,Ne. A dying part of Nebraska and we are struggling to save our hospital and will probably fail. If you get sick its a flight for life to Rapid City, I have had 2 heart attacks so I know the drill,ha.

thats insane one of the internet sites i advertise on has 133 plumbing companies in a 50 mile radius

[westcoastplumber]

1 plumber in 50 miles im moving to nebraska. :D we have more plumbers than a$$ holes in my neck of the woods



same here.

[quickshot]

You might not have any competition but since our only doctor is leaving in August the hospital is offering $20,000 to anyone furnishing a lead for a doctor that ends in a contract, so we are short on health care also. Maybe a doctor that moonlights as a plumber, any leads?

[mtnman1100]

have you tried snaking the line?

if the line is clear, i would remove the studor vent and try running the water again. if all is ok, it's the studor vent that is not allowing enough air in to vent.

also i never use tube traps on a kitchen sink. plus the waste lines should be on a 2'' line with a 1.5'' trap.

rick.

This guy is good...
take off the vent and try the drain. If the drain is fine replace the vent and don't forget to remove the rubber band that comes on the new aav. If water comes up out of your vent pipe with the vent removed, snake the line and scourjet it to clean the inside of the pipe, and reset the vent.

[quickshot]

I finally got time to try and tackle this problem myself and hope it looks OK. It drains fine now, we had a snow storm the last two days so I had time on my hands. I put in a 1 1/2" P trap and a 2" line over to the 3" line, installed a Studou mini vent in the sink cabinet and at the tee. Let me know if things do not look OK. Thanks for all the help. In the photo of the attaching to the 3" line you can see the line I capped off that was the the line I replaced.

[gear junkie]

I finally got time to try and tackle this problem myself and hope it looks OK. It drains fine now, we had a snow storm the last two days so I had time on my hands. I put in a 1 1/2" P trap and a 2" line over to the 3" line, installed a Studou mini vent in the sink cabinet and at the tee. Let me know if things do not look OK. Thanks for all the help. In the photo of the attaching to the 3" line you can see the line I capped off that was the the line I replaced.
first pic-change the wye 1/8 combo to a sanitary tee.
2nd pic-you can't have the capped piece of pipe there according to IPC. You could get around that by using a cleanout there instead of a cap. Will it realsitically cause a problem? Doubt it but something to keep in mind.
-Take off that fernco tee. rats love them. Look in the pictures under my name and you'll see what rats can do to them.
-What is that hexagonal fitting in the upper left corner that pokes under the joists? Is that a maxi vent?

Really appreciate the feedback from you. Thanks, and what's the population of your town?

[quickshot]

first pic-change the wye 1/8 combo to a sanitary tee.
2nd pic-you can't have the capped piece of pipe there according to IPC. You could get around that by using a cleanout there instead of a cap. Will it realsitically cause a problem? Doubt it but something to keep in mind.
-Take off that fernco tee. rats love them. Look in the pictures under my name and you'll see what rats can do to them.
-What is that hexagonal fitting in the upper left corner that pokes under the joists? Is that a maxi vent?

Really appreciate the feedback from you. Thanks, and what's the population of your town?
Will change the cap to a clean out on the old line-the hexagon is a cover for the mini studor vent and the population is around 1700-no rats or mice that I know of-why the sanitary tee instead of the wye? just curious as I am trying to do it right. Thanks

[quickshot]

first pic-change the wye 1/8 combo to a sanitary tee.
2nd pic-you can't have the capped piece of pipe there according to IPC. You could get around that by using a cleanout there instead of a cap. Will it realsitically cause a problem? Doubt it but something to keep in mind.
-Take off that fernco tee. rats love them. Look in the pictures under my name and you'll see what rats can do to them.
-What is that hexagonal fitting in the upper left corner that pokes under the joists? Is that a maxi vent?

Really appreciate the feedback from you. Thanks, and what's the population of your town?
Will change the cap to a clean out on the old line-the hexagon is a cover for the mini studor vent and the population is around 1700-no rats or mice that I know of-why the sanitary tee instead of the wye? just curious as I am trying to do it right. Thanks

[gear junkie]

At a loss of how to explain it better, basically the san tee allows the air from the vent to work better. Maybe someone with a better gift of gab can explain it so it makes sense.

[quickshot]

At a loss of how to explain it better, basically the san tee allows the air from the vent to work better. Maybe someone with a better gift of gab can explain it so it makes sense.
Thanks for the reply and I was thinking of the other way around just looking at them so my bad, I will change out when I can. Thanks again.

[Herk]

I'm going to give this a shot, sort of from the beginning.

My first question is:

is there a vent on the closet line? I know about the Studor vent on the kitchen sink, but that's not sufficient. I'm thinking that capped line is what was intended to head to a closet vent.

If there is no place on the line for pressure to escape, then water running into the line will displace air, which will then come back up through the sink, which explains your dilemma.

Here, our code requires a 1-1/2" trap arm, but then when it goes vertical it must be 2".

I'm thinking that if you had a vent through the roof on the closet, you might not have the gurgling problem. Of course you don't have it when you take the Studor off because you let the trapped air out.

And when you run the Drain King bladder in the pipe, it has a smallish nozzle on the front of it that will not allow full flow. Once you've blasted through a clog, the Drain King no longer is of much use. Now try a full blast from a hose.

[quickshot]

1: There is a vent thru the roof, a 3" right up from the line that I installed the tee in. The 1 1/2" capped line had just ran to the sink and I replaced it with a 2" line that hooks up to the 1 1/2" P trap--I could not put it as high as the 1 1/2" was because I discovered it had been installed almost level and there was no room to drop at that location.
2: You are correct on the Drain King nozzle- I ran it and every thing appeared OK but when I removed the 1 1/2" line it was almost plugged. The 2" line that I installed has a good drop. Everything is OK now, I hope. I will but a clean out in the capped position. Thanks