CSST Leak

[OLD1]

The first time I pumped the system up .It dropped from 80 psi. to 65 psi. in 2 days ..Not good .Then I soaped up the manifold and had to pump it back up to 100 psi to find a gnat f**t of a leak .Homeowner emails me to night after the gauge has been on for a week and says the gauge has dropped from 80 to 65 ..Huuuuuuu:mad:. I am going back with a kohlman sp? gauge and testing this thing ..This has just gotten silly ..Just need to vent

[mtnman1100]

Is this a high pressure system??? Because in a residence low pressure .5psi you only need to test at what 10psi and hold that for 15 minutes on a 30 psi gauge in 1psi increments. Not to be too specific.

http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/permits/building/gaspressuretest.htm

What's good for Concord...

[OLD1]

Sorry , yes 2 psi manifold system (gastite csst) .Our inspectors want to see 60 psi for a close in..I will find it with a kohlman gauge I guess..

[PLUMBER RICK]

here is the pressure test link.

rick.

[DUNBAR]

The first time I pumped the system up .It dropped from 80 psi. to 65 psi. in 2 days ..Not good .Then I soaped up the manifold and had to pump it back up to 100 psi to find a gnat f**t of a leak .Homeowner emails me to night after the gauge has been on for a week and says the gauge has dropped from 80 to 65 ..Huuuuuuu:mad:. I am going back with a kohlman sp? gauge and testing this thing ..This has just gotten silly ..Just need to vent



What type of soap did you use?



IF you used household soap detergent on this product, it destroys that thin stainless steel corrugated piping over the years. It's a fact.


Read the specs on the product and it'll usually include that disclaimer in the fine print.

Be honest and let us know if you used the right product to check for leaks. It will damage the pipe, rots at the edges.


don't use this product for numerous reasons.

Notorious for leaks at the fittings and

can be easily punctured by anything sharp,

including the teeth of a dog when they find that

bright yellow covering neat to chew on leading to

the water heater.


Black Iron all the way!

[NHMaster3015]

don't use this product for numerous reasons.

Notorious for leaks at the fittings and

can be easily punctured by anything sharp,

including the teeth of a dog when they find that

bright yellow covering neat to chew on leading to

the water heater.


Black Iron all the way![/quote]


Have to be one hell of a big dog.

[DUNBAR]

don't use this product for numerous reasons.



Have to be one hell of a big dog.


Yes, and here's an example of how animals couped up in basements like PowerVent water heaters


CHEWYCHEWY (http://www.msnusers.com/DUNBARPICTUREALBUM/terriblediscoveries.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=323)


The job mentioning the dog chewing on the CSST was reported by the gas company that came out and looked at this (http://www.msnusers.com/DUNBARPICTUREALBUM/terriblediscoveries.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=617) nonsense from a licensed master plumber. The gas co. guy stated that the house didn't blow up but it was clearly evident the line was chewed to the point of breakthrough and was leakng gas enough to have them come out. I forgot, the guy did a gas stove as well. More (http://www.msnusers.com/DUNBARPICTUREALBUM/terriblediscoveries.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=618)

That was used to serve a dryer which was a half witted tap off from the drip leg of a furnace.

I nailed that plumber to the wall by his ***** on that stupidity and I enjoyed every time he flipped me off as I drove by. :twofinger:


He worked for free, got a scathing bad report on the BBB by the property owner for putting up such poor quality work.


This type (http://www.msnusers.com/DUNBARPICTUREALBUM/terriblediscoveries.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=616) of piping creates this kind of results.

[NHMaster3015]

So are you blaming the installer or the csst.?

[DUNBAR]

So are you blaming the installer or the csst.?


BOTH


Dogs have never chewed black iron gas lines before, nor has lightning strikes blown tiny holes into black iron.

I've never heard of a black iron pipe get a hole in it because a nail from a joist toenailed to a top plate slowly rubbed a hole in it.



I bet I'm the youngest, old school plumber on this site, or maybe the whole internet!

But I don't like what's fast and easy, I like what takes time effort and skill as it protects my valued profession from the ability of others to simply crimp here and push fit there and tighten this nut and go. I don't want simplicity when it creates such a downturn.


My first service call in the office this morning was a broken water main in the ground.

Do you know what type of piping it was? We already know.......>>>plastic. :trash-him:

[PLUMBER RICK]

BOTH



I've never heard of a black iron pipe get a hole in it because a nail from a joist toenailed to a top plate slowly rubbed a hole in it.

. :trash-him:

a nail gun will shoot a hole in black iron.

the striker plates we use on gastite are hardened steel. next to impossible to penetrate.

the nail plates we use on copper, or normal pipe, is plain steel.

the trick with gastite, is following the installation standards and codes.

rick.

[DUNBAR]

a nail gun will shoot a hole in black iron.

the striker plates we use on gastite are hardened steel. next to impossible to penetrate.

the nail plates we use on copper, or normal pipe, is plain steel.

the trick with gastite, is following the installation standards and codes.

rick.


That's nice, all's well said and good but it's the hazards it poses after the plumber/installer is long gone.

I've already seen people hanging metal coat hangers off this piping just like they do on black iron.

I don't believe a nail gun will penetrate black iron, you need to show me the picture of that knowing the soft metal nails are against a hardened SCH40 steel.

I see the flexies behind stoves and dryers as a purposeful need as the fixture itself protects it from undo harm, but hanging this **** across everywhere knowing how shoddy it looks is just wrong. Vibration is just as much a problem for black iron steel as much as it is for this flex-type piping.

One thing that will hold true; you still have to mix black iron into the equation when using this in a new home OR a rework. Code dictates you have to have hard pipe either at the penetrations or at the termination points.


With of course an exception to CA where they "have to" provide flex gas lines to water heaters due to earthquake conditions.


There's something wrong with a product when the constant problem that's never fixed, which is the nut that almost buries out before it tightens. That and even licensed plumbers *like pictured above* don't know how to properly place the keepers on the pipe, strip it back to the right length before making up.


following the installations standards and codes


That's perfect world antics that do not exist on an everyday application found with hacksaw and channel lock bandits when it comes to this type of piping system.

[NHMaster3015]

Seen nail holes in steel pipe many many times. I'm a bit of an old school guy also, but I'm willing to give new stuff a try.

[NHMaster3015]

We use Trac Pipe, have never had a problem with the nut, keeper or any other part of the system. You need to be certified to install it. As for how it looks, that's entirely up to the installer. I can show you miles of very nasty CI pipe, pvc pipe, copper pipe it does'nt make a difference what the material is, if the installer is a hack. To blame the csst on the dog is a gross injustice here. The csst should never have been installed in that manner in the first place. I also note that the dog chewed the wires to the water heater gas valve. Is that the manufacturers fault also.?

[Service Guy]

We use Trac Pipe, have never had a problem with the nut, keeper or any other part of the system. You need to be certified to install it. As for how it looks, that's entirely up to the installer. I can show you miles of very nasty CI pipe, pvc pipe, copper pipe it does'nt make a difference what the material is, if the installer is a hack. To blame the csst on the dog is a gross injustice here. The csst should never have been installed in that manner in the first place. I also note that the dog chewed the wires to the water heater gas valve. Is that the manufacturers fault also.?

I agree with this post.

[westcoastplumber]

We use Trac Pipe, have never had a problem with the nut, keeper or any other part of the system. You need to be certified to install it. As for how it looks, that's entirely up to the installer. I can show you miles of very nasty CI pipe, pvc pipe, copper pipe it does'nt make a difference what the material is, if the installer is a hack. To blame the csst on the dog is a gross injustice here. The csst should never have been installed in that manner in the first place. I also note that the dog chewed the wires to the water heater gas valve. Is that the manufacturers fault also.?


I agree.

I am certified in Trac Pipe, although I will not use it for every job, I will use it when there is a time crunch, I recently had new owners of a house moving in, they wanted their gas on.......I had 1 day to re-pipe it, so, in this case I used Trac for the main trunk line.

Yeah, it does not look as neat as steel, and you cannot pull it tight to strap it.

If I am going for a beauty contest and it is going to be visable, then I steel pipe it.

[MPMGinAL]

Certified in TracPipe as well. Must say that i love it. The thing that i love most about it is that you have to be certified to buy it, and you are not going to get it or fittings for it at your local homecenter. That means the do-it-yourselfer can't touch it. I don't think it is the most beautiful thing out there, but thier direct burial stuff is the ****. I think that the plumbing profession needs more of this type product. By that i mean stuff thats not readily available to average joe homeowner. I have never had to explain to someone why i am charging 25 dollars for a 7 dollar contactor, but how many times have you tried to explain why your fluidmaster 400A (or whatever you prefer) is better than the homecenters?

[Service Guy]

Very good point, MPMG

[DuckButter]

I use steel almost exclusively.
IF I wind up in a pinch where for some reason I need CSST...then it's trackpipe.
I had the distinct "priviledge" of using Wardflex extensively working for other shops and it was a nightmare...three main reasons:

-The gaskets don't come close to the metal to metal seal in Gastite & Trackpipe,
-The CSST in Wardflex is annealed (made intentionally softer for ease of use...not good) and I'd seen it puncture in a concealed location from being dragged too hard through a joist in a tight spot (possibly a nail...we never found out),
-I found when the fittings leak, using leak detector often doesn't show bubbles due to the way the compression nut seems to disperse air.

Another issue with CSST...three major MFG's each have their own installation procedure, I watched a licensed guy once install a duplex of Wardflex according to what he was trained for Gastite...it wasn't a good day...we wound up running around like crazed lunatics locating every joint and having to try to stretch another inch or so on each length before the inspector got there.
He bought lunch that day.

The cost is quite a bit higher than steel as well, makes me wonder how much more cost effective it is over the time it takes to cut & thread.
Now there's a new issue with CSST and grounding/bonding in regard to lightening causing it to puncture, which makes me wonder about the overall strengtyh of the thin stainless tubing....
I feel more comfy with sched 40 steel over CSST any day....however Robert does make a good argument above for using it in certain situations.

[Hondahead]

Certified in TracPipe as well. Must say that i love it. The thing that i love most about it is that you have to be certified to buy it, and you are not going to get it or fittings for it at your local homecenter. That means the do-it-yourselfer can't touch it. I don't think it is the most beautiful thing out there, but thier direct burial stuff is the ****. I think that the plumbing profession needs more of this type product. By that i mean stuff thats not readily available to average joe homeowner. I have never had to explain to someone why i am charging 25 dollars for a 7 dollar contactor, but how many times have you tried to explain why your fluidmaster 400A (or whatever you prefer) is better than the homecenters?

:thumbup2: Up here we use to use alot of copper for gas to fire places, BBQs, ranges etc... Now we use Trac pipe, crack heads don't steal Trac pipe:) Another plus for Trac Pipe,MADE IN THE USA! All the blk iron we get now is made in China.

[mtnman1100]

I prefer using csst and have noticed that Tracpipe fittings are superior to Gastite. When installed correctly it is a safe product.
As far as cost it does depend on the installation. I recently installed 2" steel gas line 100 feet in a salon/spa with CSST branches to the attic furnaces. We had to go with steel because the 2" CSST price was outrageous. We could have laid that run in about 30 minutes. It took most of one day to cut and thread 2" pipe from the meter stub to the water heaters.