I am scared

[NHMaster3015]

Teaching 10th and 11th graders how to use a vernier caliper yesterday. I explain that each small line is .025 of an inch. So if you have 3 little lines, how much is it.? " I donno" Ok .025 plus .025 plus .025 equals ? " uhhhhh" Hmm maybe its the point 0 thing confusing them. Whats 25 plus 25 plus 25? Uhhhhhhh, Ummmmmmm. God help us all. Make sure you're dead before they have to take care of you.

[res057]

That's ok. They have a future in civil service.

[HVAC HAWK]

i know what your saying
when a new helper starts and cant read what the small lines on a tape measure is they get one that has written 1/16 1/8 1/4 5/16 5/8 7/8 :smack-head::smack-head:

or you ask them to scale something off a print and they say what do you mean :ignore::ignore:

[PLUMBER RICK]

you think that's bad:confused:

when i was an apprentice and we had our firts semester basic math. i was surprised at how many apprentices couldn't read a tape measure.

not the 1/2'' but the 1/8'' inch.

forget about solving for square roots by hand:nono:

rick.

[MrsSeatDown]

I went to High School(a gifted magnet, mind you) with a guy that could not tell time on a real clock.

Digital watches came out when we were little and that is what he always used.:smack-head:

[HVAC HAWK]

I went to High School(a gifted magnet, mind you) with a guy that could not tell time on a real clock.

Digital watches came out when we were little and that is what he always used.:smack-head:

sow what does the big hand do :smack-head::slap:

[Big Dog]

sow what does the big hand do :smack-head::slap:
Hawk, did you call her a sow?? oh well, rest assured spelling ain't that big a deal in school, either:rotflmao:

[res057]

Think about all the kids that send text messages all day long. My grammer and spelling are far from perfect, but a lot of people these days don't have a clue. You can even see it when you read the newpaper. They rely on their computer for spell check and grammer check. These peoples parents paid a lot of money for their "higher education".

[MrsSeatDown]

Yes, I believe he did!:D

In college there was a program called "writing across the curriculum". Regardless of the class or your major you had to write at least one term paper, minimum 5 pages. It was realized that math and art majors were getting college degrees without being able to differentiate to, two, and too when writing.

And now look. . . .I married a guy that spelling correctly is foreign to him:D

Now, people take having spell check as the answer. It doesn't help to determine if it is grammatically correct in a sentence though.

[ToUtahNow]

Yes, I believe he did!:D

In college there was a program called "writing across the curriculum". Regardless of the class or your major you had to write at least one term paper, minimum 5 pages. It was realized that math and art majors were getting college degrees without being able to differentiate to, two, and too when writing.

And now look. . . .I married a guy that spelling correctly is foreign to him:D

Now, people take having spell check as the answer. It doesn't help to determine if it is grammatically correct in a sentence though.

To be fair had you enrolled Rick in the ESL class I suggested he would not have this problem.

Mark

[HVAC HAWK]

Hawk, did you call her a sow?? oh well, rest assured spelling ain't that big a deal in school, either:rotflmao:

i am trying to type with one arm in a sling sow :rotflmao1: thats my excuse

[MrsSeatDown]

To be fair had you enrolled Rick in the ESL class I suggested he would not have this problem.

Mark

That's funny. But really it is not just him.

I had a health inspector come to my job to look at the apartments to ensure we were in compliance. He said everything was fine and he would mail me a report. He had just spent an hour walking around to the 15 units with a clipboard taking copious notes. I insisted he just give me a hand written report while he kept insisting on taking it back to the office and mailing in a typed report.

Finally, he said that he relied so heavily on the spell check feature that he could no longer spell. The irony is that the typed report still had typos!

[ToUtahNow]

i am trying to type with one arm in a sling sow :rotflmao1: thats my excuse

Yeah I could see how you could accidentally hit both keys at the same time as they are only SEVEN keys apart.

Mark

BTW: For anyone who cares the Google Tool Bar includes spell check.

[ToUtahNow]

That's funny. But really it is not just him.

I had a health inspector come to my job to look at the apartments to ensure we were in compliance. He said everything was fine and he would mail me a report. He had just spent an hour walking around to the 15 units with a clipboard taking copious notes. I insisted he just give me a hand written report while he kept insisting on taking it back to the office and mailing in a typed report.

Finally, he said that he relied so heavily on the spell check feature that he could no longer spell. The irony is that the typed report still had typos!

When you consider many people give up their writing skills after they complete school it is not a surprise. As my work has been so report intense of late my skills seem to be coming back.

Mark

[HVAC HAWK]

Yeah I could see how you could accidentally hit both keys at the same time as they are only SEVEN keys apart.

Mark

BTW: For anyone who cares the Google Tool Bar includes spell check.

i tried and i do have google spell check and did not check
i also have fire fox but it did not show it miss spelled :nyaa-nyaa4:

[MrsSeatDown]

i tried and i do have google spell check and did not check
i also have fire fox but it did not show it miss spelled :nyaa-nyaa4:

Because it is a real word! That is what I meant by it cannot find the misspelled words that are just grammatically incorrect.

[ToUtahNow]

i tried and i do have google spell check and did not check
i also have fire fox but it did not show it miss spelled :nyaa-nyaa4:

That's because "sow" is a word it is just not one I personally would use to address Joey.

Mark:cool:

[HVAC HAWK]

That's because "sow" is a word it is just not one I personally would use to address Joey.

Mark:cool:

i know and it was not to come out that way
she will still talk to me :bow-down:

[MrsSeatDown]

That's because "sow" is a word it is just not one I personally would use to address Joey.

Mark:cool:

i know and it was not to come out that way
she will still talk to me :bow-down:

I was just gonna let the typo slip by without giving him a hard time:killingme:I am glad he is able to type at all. :happydance:

I guess if Rick can type with 2 fingers he can type with 1 hand:p

[HVAC HAWK]

I was just gonna let the typo slip by without giving him a hard time:killingme:I am glad he is able to type at all. :happydance:

I guess if Rick can type with 2 fingers he can type with 1 hand:p

thanks

:bow-down::bow-down::bow-down::bow-down::bow-down:

[Frankiarmz]

Teaching 10th and 11th graders how to use a vernier caliper yesterday. I explain that each small line is .025 of an inch. So if you have 3 little lines, how much is it.? " I donno" Ok .025 plus .025 plus .025 equals ? " uhhhhh" Hmm maybe its the point 0 thing confusing them. Whats 25 plus 25 plus 25? Uhhhhhhh, Ummmmmmm. God help us all. Make sure you're dead before they have to take care of you.

When I pose a simple math question to my fourteen year old daughter she accuses me of "trying to trick her" and my wife says I am being "mean". This is what we have come to, coddle instead of challenging. Blame the teachers and require nothing of the students. You are shocked by their inability to read a caliper? Ask them a few questions involving time and reading a clock! I'm willing to bet at least some can't make change without screwing up. While husbands and wives argue with eachother and attack teachers, the children continue to fall behind.

[NHMaster3015]

When I pose a simple math question to my fourteen year old daughter she accuses me of "trying to trick her" and my wife says I am being "mean". This is what we have come to, coddle instead of challenging. Blame the teachers and require nothing of the students. You are shocked by their inability to read a caliper? Ask them a few questions involving time and reading a clock! I'm willing to bet at least some can't make change without screwing up. While husbands and wives argue with eachother and attack teachers, the children continue to fall behind.

I have brought up the declining academic skills at department meetings several times. The administration blames poor scores on the "home environment" The middle school blames them on the elementary school and we blame both. The dept. head tells us to involve math in our curriculum to bring these kids up to speed. If I was so inclined, we would never actually get to the advertised curriculum because we would still be multiplying fractions at the end of the year. Be afraid. Be very afraid. These kids are graduating from high school with 4th or 5th grade skills at best. (and many worst) The inability of educators to standardize math, reading and writing curriculum has plunged the next generation into a hole that they will never climb out of. I commonly get kids in the 11th and 12 grade that can not read above a 4th grade level. They are incapable of writing a coherent sentence or using proper grammar or english. Yet they will all for the most part, be given an cap and gown and a framed diploma.
For all of you parents out there, I cannot stress this enough. Get involved with your kids education. Demand excellence from your kid and the school. Never, Never let up. Your childs future is too important. Don't sit back and rely on the public school to get the job done, because they will not.

Sorry for the rant,.... Having a crappy day.:wink:

[ToUtahNow]

I believe a lot of the problem starts in the home. Even if the school is doing a poor job the parent has a responsibility to demand more for their kids. My youngest daughter and I talked last week about her education. She told me she doesn't remember my wife or I ever telling her she had to go to college yet all 6 of our kids went to college. I explained to her it was always assumed all of our kids were going to college so the goal post was not set at their High School graduation. My kids are not all working at the major but they all have great careers and they all are great parents. As a consequence there is no question in my mind all of my grand kids will go to college.

Mark

[Pipestone Kid]

I have brought up the declining academic skills at department meetings several times. The administration blames poor scores on the "home environment" The middle school blames them on the elementary school and we blame both. The dept. head tells us to involve math in our curriculum to bring these kids up to speed. If I was so inclined, we would never actually get to the advertised curriculum because we would still be multiplying fractions at the end of the year. Be afraid. Be very afraid. These kids are graduating from high school with 4th or 5th grade skills at best. (and many worst) The inability of educators to standardize math, reading and writing curriculum has plunged the next generation into a hole that they will never climb out of. I commonly get kids in the 11th and 12 grade that can not read above a 4th grade level. They are incapable of writing a coherent sentence or using proper grammar or english. Yet they will all for the most part, be given an cap and gown and a framed diploma.
For all of you parents out there, I cannot stress this enough. Get involved with your kids education. Demand excellence from your kid and the school. Never, Never let up. Your childs future is too important. Don't sit back and rely on the public school to get the job done, because they will not.

Sorry for the rant,.... Having a crappy day.:wink:
After spending 29 years in the educational system, (some part time) I have to join in. I have to blame society as a whole. We accept poor quality in everything. Just go to any store and look what they are selling. Yes, there are some poor teachers, but there is one heck of a lot of good ones. What happens if they try to push a little--either Mommy and Daddy are storming in to the school, a lawsuit, or they let the kid quit. And WE tolerate it. Good teachers have to be dedicated to what they are doing (thank goodness many are) or they will pull the plug and get a better paying job with less stress and much more support. I know two sisters-one a teacher and one a dental hygenist. The hygenist makes double that of the teacher! I know, I know, it is much more important to have clean teeth than it is to educate your kids. But somewhere, somehow we are going to have to pay the fiddler. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. ( Yes, I know that is an old saying, but very appropriate in this case):shrug: Get involved!!!

[NHMaster3015]

After spending 29 years in the educational system, (some part time) I have to join in. I have to blame society as a whole. We accept poor quality in everything. Just go to any store and look what they are selling. Yes, there are some poor teachers, but there is one heck of a lot of good ones. What happens if they try to push a little--either Mommy and Daddy are storming in to the school, a lawsuit, or they let the kid quit. And WE tolerate it. Good teachers have to be dedicated to what they are doing (thank goodness many are) or they will pull the plug and get a better paying job with less stress and much more support. I know two sisters-one a teacher and one a dental hygenist. The hygenist makes double that of the teacher! I know, I know, it is much more important to have clean teeth than it is to educate your kids. But somewhere, somehow we are going to have to pay the fiddler. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. ( Yes, I know that is an old saying, but very appropriate in this case):shrug: Get involved!!!


Amen Brother, Amen;)

[cpw]

I think there is kind of a double edged thing going on here. It seems there are a lot of kids who can't make change, but at the same time there is a lot of pressure that seems to be applied that the only right choice in life is you must go to college and that you need to start thinking about it in elementary school. Somehow kids just don't seem to get to be kids as much; and I'm only 26 and think that.

I'm all for college, I couldn't do my job without my Ph.D., and I'm saving for my kids (9 months and 2.5 years). The biggest problem is that I think there are a lot of people who just don't realize not everyone is cut out for it. It also means that just going to college isn't the same differentiator that it used to be, to stand apart on education you need a graduate degree.

At the same time, it seems like it would be the right thing for kids tolearn grammar for real at school (I learned more French and Russian grammar in school than I did English). I can't complain about my math education, but the sad state of the world is that I'm not even shocked by NHMaster's story.

There is enough "fat" in the curriculum that if the focus was shifted to important stuff, and passing wasn't so pitiful maybe there would be an improvement. You still get a passing grade even if you get almost half a regents exam wrong (55).

[ToUtahNow]

As I posted earlier not all of my kids are working in the field of their majors. My wife and I never went to college other than a class here and there but felt college was a place to teach our kids accomplishments and being responsible. Part of the deal was all of our kids went away for college.

The rules were simple, I would pay 4-years of tuition and books, 3-years of housing, two years of meals and one year of allowance. Some took a year or so to figure out it was not about playing around and some knew it form the start. Bottom line when they were through with college they were ready for life.

Mark

[MrsSeatDown]

The rules were simple, I would pay 4-years of tuition and books, 3-years of housing, two years of meals and one year of allowance. Some took a year or so to figure out it was not about playing around and some knew it form the start. Bottom line when they were through with college they were ready for life.

Mark

Wow, Mark. I was truly spoiled. I always appreciated the fact that my grandparents paid for all my schooling, as well as all the grandkids that wanted to go to school. As long as we wanted to go to school with an end goal in mind, they paid for it. This included, books, housing, food, cars,and computers. 6 of the 8 grandkids went to college and grad school courtesy of them:grin-loving:

[ToUtahNow]

Wow, Mark. I was truly spoiled. I always appreciated the fact that my grandparents paid for all my schooling, as well as all the grandkids that wanted to go to school. As long as we wanted to go to school with an end goal in mind, they paid for it. This included, books, housing, food, cars,and computers. 6 of the 8 grandkids went to college and grad school courtesy of them:grin-loving:

I'm sure your grandparents were very proud of all of you guys but as a parent I felt I needed to prepare my kids for life. Of the 6-kids only the youngest came home after college. I told her it was time to grow up and move out on her own (lovingly of course). When she found apartment rent was $1,800 per month here I told her to buy a condo with her two single cousins. She lived with her cousins for two years and walked away with an $80,000 profit. With that money she was able to make more choices in life and has since relocated out of State and runs a youth recreation program for a large county.

Mark

BTW: I reserve the right to spoil my grand children.

[cpw]

As I posted earlier not all of my kids are working in the field of their majors. My wife and I never went to college other than a class here and there but felt college was a place to teach our kids accomplishments and being responsible. Part of the deal was all of our kids went away for college.

The rules were simple, I would pay 4-years of tuition and books, 3-years of housing, two years of meals and one year of allowance. Some took a year or so to figure out it was not about playing around and some knew it form the start. Bottom line when they were through with college they were ready for life.

Mark
Mark,

I think you've got a pretty good outlook on it. If nothing else, graduating from college shows you can stick through something for four years. I didn't go away to college, but was working before and during. My sister did go away, but wasn't working and lived on her own. I think we both got a lot of the benefit out of that experience.

I actually cared about college compared to high school (when I was a senior I was more concerned about my job, and just didnt' want or need to apply myself). My sister learned what it was like to pay bills when renting an apartment.

I think the most important lesson that my parents taught me (and my wifes parents taught her) was the example of working hard, and staying together. I hope to teach that same lesson to my kids.

Also, just remember as bad as it seems; there are plenty of young people who have their heads on straight.

Charles

[MrsSeatDown]

BTW: I reserve the right to spoil my grand children.

I bet the world will look different for them:clapping:

[ToUtahNow]

Mark,

I think you've got a pretty good outlook on it. If nothing else, graduating from college shows you can stick through something for four years. I didn't go away to college, but was working before and during. My sister did go away, but wasn't working and lived on her own. I think we both got a lot of the benefit out of that experience.

I actually cared about college compared to high school (when I was a senior I was more concerned about my job, and just didnt' want or need to apply myself). My sister learned what it was like to pay bills when renting an apartment.

I think the most important lesson that my parents taught me (and my wifes parents taught her) was the example of working hard, and staying together. I hope to teach that same lesson to my kids.

Also, just remember as bad as it seems; there are plenty of young people who have their heads on straight.

Charles

Good for you Charles. My trophy wife and I have been married for 37-years and we both have faith in the youth of today. With the proper direction and guidance I am excited to see what our youth are capable of. I'm sure in the 60's no one thought my wife and I would ever amount to anything.

Mark

[ToUtahNow]

I bet the world will look different for them:clapping:

You will get some time with two of them in Ohio and you will understand why I have to spoil them.

Mark

[PLUMBER RICK]

[quote=ToUtahNow;140755

BTW: I reserve the right to spoil my grand children.[/quote]

can you spoil me at the roundup:rolleyes:

i'll take the milkshake:grin-angelic:


i never went to college:(

but i was valedictorian of my plumbing class:)

now look at me:D

college is not for everyone.

every now and then i do go to college, but that's because they need me to fix the plumbing problems:cool:
plus i've plumbed lots of dorms in the past.

now lets talk about spoiling me:D

rick.

[MrsSeatDown]

can you spoil me at the roundup:rolleyes:

i'll take the milkshake:grin-angelic:


i never went to college:(

but i was valedictorian of my plumbing class:)

now look at me:D


rick.

You married someone that could spell so you could post without looking like the public school system failed you?

[MrsSeatDown]

You will get some time with two of them in Ohio and you will understand why I have to spoil them.

Mark

It is a grandparents duty to spoil. I expect nothing less;)

[ToUtahNow]

You married someone that could spell so you could post without looking like the public school system failed you?

LOL-What have I told you about teasing the kids that ride the short-bus?

Rick and I actually had a discussion today about some future work where he will need your help. I think with help he could do a great job.

Mark

[MrsSeatDown]

LOL-What have I told you about teasing the kids that ride the short-bus?:killingme:

Rick and I actually had a discussion today about some future work where he will need your help. I think with help he could do a great job.He always needs me;)

Mark

Poor Rick. I will stop teasing you know:canoodle::grin-loving:

[PLUMBER RICK]

Poor Rick. I will stop teasing you know:canoodle::grin-loving:

lets not talk about spelling now:D

too late, i quoted you:lol:

rick.

[MrsSeatDown]

lets not talk about spelling now:D

too late, i quoted you:lol:

rick.

I had to so you would understand it:p

[PLUMBER RICK]

I had to so you would understand it:p

nice try, but i caught your blunder:groucho:

rick.

[OpaDC]

All is not lost though.

http://www.happynews.com/news/552008/unbelievable-moment-stuns-crowd-softball-game.htm

[Frankiarmz]

Amen Brother, Amen;)

I'd like to add that while I do not excuse the attitude of some students and parents to blame teachers for their own failures, the problem is more complicated. Because of the present economy there are folks who had no intention or desire to become teachers, taking teaching positions because of some unexpected situation. There is also the problem of standardized testing and no child left behind which is forcing teachers to prepare students to pass certain tests rather than really teach the course properly. In our *** backwards society students reflect a dysfunctional home life and school environment as well. Yes, there are still good teachers, students and parents, but I think there are more and more problems within those groups. I'd like to think we could get back to basics and have better marriages, stable jobs, students with better skills to function is society, but what are the chances of that happening? Is the Camelot of the American dream, the family unit and what once made America great gone for good? I know that for some here the dream is alive and very strong. I wish that more of you find that dream and hold onto it during these difficult times.

[ToUtahNow]

Poor Rick. I will stop teasing, you know?:canoodle::grin-loving:

Yes I know, Sometimes you can only do so much.

Mark

[MrsSeatDown]

All is not lost though.

http://www.happynews.com/news/552008/unbelievable-moment-stuns-crowd-softball-game.htm

I saw this story the other day. It was nice to see.

[MrsSeatDown]

nice try, but i caught your blunder:groucho:

rick.

Apparently, you didn't know what I meant:p

[ToUtahNow]

Apparently, you didn't know what I meant:p

Apparently his reading comprehension is a little slow as well.

Mark:D

[MrsSeatDown]

Apparently his reading comprehension is a little slow as well.

Mark:D

Oh Mark! I now wish I hadn't promised to stop teasing:ignore::rotflmao:

[ToUtahNow]

Oh Mark! I now wish I hadn't promised to stop teasing:ignore::rotflmao:

Thank goodness only one of us made the promise.

Mark :poke:

[cpw]

I'd like to add that while I do not excuse the attitude of some students and parents to blame teachers for their own failures, the problem is more complicated. Because of the present economy there are folks who had no intention or desire to become teachers, taking teaching positions because of some unexpected situation. There is also the problem of standardized testing and no child left behind which is forcing teachers to prepare students to pass certain tests rather than really teach the course properly. In our *** backwards society students reflect a dysfunctional home life and school environment as well. Yes, there are still good teachers, students and parents, but I think there are more and more problems within those groups. I'd like to think we could get back to basics and have better marriages, stable jobs, students with better skills to function is society, but what are the chances of that happening? Is the Camelot of the American dream, the family unit and what once made America great gone for good? I know that for some here the dream is alive and very strong. I wish that more of you find that dream and hold onto it during these difficult times.
I think the stable familiy unit is the most important thing, and also that a stable work ethic as an example to kids is probably the second most important thing.

I'm going to disagree with you on teachers and testing though. As far as teachers, it does depend on the district; it can pay pretty well, but more importantly it is a very stable job with government benefits. That is pretty attractive to some people. I don't like No-Child-Left-Behind because I don't think that the federal government should be involved in education; if they mess it up they mess up 50 states worth. If NYS messes it up, only NY students are hurt, CA students would be OK and vice versa. I actually think that standardized tests are important, NY does it in high school for most everything now with Regents. Without having some standardized tests, you can't evaluate what teachers are successfully teaching the students. You may argue that it has people teach to the test, but if the test is testing things that are important (like math, reading comprehension, etc.); I would argue that teaching to the test is not a bad thing. It is certainly better than the alternative of not knowing whether a particular student is achieving what they need to; or differentiating the teachers who get their students to achieve vs. those who don't.

The earlier you catch children who are underachieving (and also those that are overachieving), the better you can do for them in the long run.

[VASandy]

I've recently become involved in our Lion's Club "Leos" Club, which is composed of High School kids. I'm really impressed with this crop of young'uns. They are helpful, respectful, and smart. They know what work is, and appreciate what it takes to make a living. This is a voluntary group, so we're getting only those that want to join. That being said, it seems to be a popular choice for the kids. I'm really kind of surprised by these kids. They're a lot more on the ball than I remember myself being at their age! I keep reminding them they're responsible for keeping me in Medicare and Social Security checks so they better get good jobs. ;)

As far as the actual start of this thread....I've had to learn how to read micrometers and calipers. It seems such a simple thing to begin with, but it's taken me at least a year to feel comfortable around a pair of calipers. Now, though, I use them regularly. It seems I'm not ever without my calipers in the shop these days. I guess when I grew up, teaching girls how to work with mechanical systems wasn't a priority. I was never shown the details of measurement systems in my HS shop class. The "home ec" class, however, taught us the details of how much a 1/4 cup of flour weighed and how to make conversions between dry weight and volume of most items in the kitchen. While that's useful (I prefer dry weight over volume for flour and most other dry goods), right now I wish the shop teacher had bothered to spend more time with the calipers!

[NHMaster3015]

I think the stable familiy unit is the most important thing, and also that a stable work ethic as an example to kids is probably the second most important thing.

I'm going to disagree with you on teachers and testing though. As far as teachers, it does depend on the district; it can pay pretty well, but more importantly it is a very stable job with government benefits. That is pretty attractive to some people. I don't like No-Child-Left-Behind because I don't think that the federal government should be involved in education; if they mess it up they mess up 50 states worth. If NYS messes it up, only NY students are hurt, CA students would be OK and vice versa. I actually think that standardized tests are important, NY does it in high school for most everything now with Regents. Without having some standardized tests, you can't evaluate what teachers are successfully teaching the students. You may argue that it has people teach to the test, but if the test is testing things that are important (like math, reading comprehension, etc.); I would argue that teaching to the test is not a bad thing. It is certainly better than the alternative of not knowing whether a particular student is achieving what they need to; or differentiating the teachers who get their students to achieve vs. those who don't.

The earlier you catch children who are underachieving (and also those that are overachieving), the better you can do for them in the long run.

Unfortunatly there are many teachers that truley do not want to know how their students are testing because the results often uncover defficiencies in their teaching methods. but the fact remains that without standardized tests there is no way to gauge a childs progress. for over 30 years now math teachers have been trying new methods and programs to try to make math easier and more "fun". The results have been a disaster. Educators need to come to the realization that some things just are not fun. Multiplication tables and basic formulas are best learned at an early age through rote memorization. (beat it into the brain) Without the basic math foundation, advanced math is well beyond most students ability.

[Tom W]

There isn't much that bothers me more than the education system, at least in New York State.

Teachers: One of the first things teachers do after securing a position is begin to whine about salary. Well... You know what? If you are so stupid that you didn't investigate whether or not you could make ends meet with your salary you are too stupid to teach. Go try to get a job in the private sector Mr. Ten Week Summer Vacation.

Respect: I was part of a research project which involved inner-city elementary school kids. A kindergartner, upset over something, grabbed a handfull of caryons and threw them into the face of the principal who was investigating a different incident that involved the same kid. If there is no respect for persons there can be no respect for the subjects which are taught.

Responsibility: As a psychotherapist working for a not-for-profit I had the opportunity to hear of some of the most bone chilling incidents you can imagine. Parental involvement is the single most important factor influencing childrens' success in school. There are a number of factors that contribute to lack of parental involvement in children's education, both moral and school specific, not the least of which is exhaustion. It was not uncommon to have a single mother with a few kids, working two or three jobs all paying minimum wage, as a client. It is a testament to the clients' strengths that they are ableto function at all to say nothing of teaching respect and morality. These parents understand the responsibility and benefits of involvement in education but it is literally impossible for them to be involved. They have to work so they and their kids can eat, so that they can pay the rent etc. Sometime they have to make room in their schedule for sleep.

Accountibility versus Responsibility: If you teach a dog to fight and the dog breaks loose and bites someone is the dog responsible? I would submit no. The person who taught the dog to fight is responsible. Is the dog accountable? You bet, and he, through no fault of his own, will suffer the consequences. Where does the responsibility lie with the kid who threw the crayons in the face of the principal? It is certain the kid will be held accountable.

[cpw]

As far as the actual start of this thread....I've had to learn how to read micrometers and calipers. It seems such a simple thing to begin with, but it's taken me at least a year to feel comfortable around a pair of calipers. Now, though, I use them regularly. It seems I'm not ever without my calipers in the shop these days. I guess when I grew up, teaching girls how to work with mechanical systems wasn't a priority. I was never shown the details of measurement systems in my HS shop class. The "home ec" class, however, taught us the details of how much a 1/4 cup of flour weighed and how to make conversions between dry weight and volume of most items in the kitchen. While that's useful (I prefer dry weight over volume for flour and most other dry goods), right now I wish the shop teacher had bothered to spend more time with the calipers!
Our high school had neither shop nor home economics. I don't know how to use a pair of calipers, but I do know how to convert between the various kitchen measurements.

I don't think whether or not a kid knows how to use calipers is really an issue. The real issue is that none of them knew how to add, multiply, or maybe as likely [and as problematic] was willing to participate in class.