You Guys are gona love this

[Arthur96]

New Festool SCMS

http://kapex.festoolusa.com/

[stokefire7]

nice,makes me wanna cut stuff

[res057]

Thanks. Very cool video. Festool has some great ideas, but they are way too pricey, IMO.

[garager]

Not too shabby, I like the hand tool thats for sure.

[CWSmith]

Very nice indeed and I love the fact that they took the extra steps to really 'introduce' the saw, and not just post a picture of it with some specs. The only spec that I see missing is the crosscut capacity. Looks limited when compaired to some of the other SCMS products on the market... guess I'd have to keep my RAS ;)

Festool seems to be always out there on the leading edge of innovation. They just don't introduce a competitive product, they seem to spend time analyzing the application and then invent something that meets most of the challenges and then some.

I love the angle finder guage and the twin lasers. The latter appears to take away that haunting concern that "My laser doesn't hit the kerf!"

But of course, one has to ask.... How many $000's are they going to ask for this baby?

CWS

[woodenstickers]

Very nice indeed and I love the fact that they took the extra steps to really 'introduce' the saw, and not just post a picture of it with some specs. The only spec that I see missing is the crosscut capacity. Looks limited when compaired to some of the other SCMS products on the market... guess I'd have to keep my RAS ;)

Festool seems to be always out there on the leading edge of innovation. They just don't introduce a competitive product, they seem to spend time analyzing the application and then invent something that meets most of the challenges and then some.

I love the angle finder guage and the twin lasers. The latter appears to take away that haunting concern that "My laser doesn't hit the kerf!"

But of course, one has to ask.... How many $000's are they going to ask for this baby?

CWS

I'm scared to ask! It is really cool to see a tool stuffed with features that I have never thought of instead of shopping around to see which brand makes the one MISSING the least of the features you want. (I hope that made sense)

Anyone wanna guess the price on this? I'd have to wager in the $1,200 to $1,500 range.




Eli

[VASandy]

Must.........have...............Kapex...*drool*

anyone wanna donate to the "Sandy Needs a Festool Kapex KS 120" fund???? Please???? I'd be ever so thankful! :D

My current Delta is in very poor shape and isn't a slider...and doesn't cut a reliable straight or 45 any more. I could REALLY get used to having a Festool in the shop. That green does kind of match orange, right?

[Tyman]

I'll say they want 950.00 minimum.

[rom57]

For the price of Festool, you can get 3 of these

http://bosch.cpotools.com/saws/miter_saws/4410l.html

[Woussko]

Sandy

Bosch and Makita make some very nice sliding compound miter saws that are more affordable. Maybe all of us forum regulars can pass the hat around and help you get one. :D

For what it's worth I might get one myself sometime after I figure just which one I really want. :o

[Colorado Fatboy]

They want $1300 It can be pre-ordered here:

http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/561287/Festool-Kapex-KS-120-Sliding-Compound-Miter-Saw

http://www.cpofestool.com/products/561287.html?ref=froogle561287

[Arthur96]

Very nice indeed and I love the fact that they took the extra steps to really 'introduce' the saw, and not just post a picture of it with some specs. The only spec that I see missing is the crosscut capacity. Looks limited when compaired to some of the other SCMS products on the market... guess I'd have to keep my RAS ;)

Festool seems to be always out there on the leading edge of innovation. They just don't introduce a competitive product, they seem to spend time analyzing the application and then invent something that meets most of the challenges and then some.

I love the angle finder guage and the twin lasers. The latter appears to take away that haunting concern that "My laser doesn't hit the kerf!"

But of course, one has to ask.... How many $000's are they going to ask for this baby?

CWS

$1300.00

Specs http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=34

[res057]

$1300? In my opinion, it has NO features that justify that price. It is just a 10". For that much money, you can buy a top quality 12", a couple of great blades, a mobile stand and lots of other cool little doodads and still have enough left over to get the wife something nice to make up for spending $1300 without the proper consent.

[VASandy]

$1300? In my opinion, it has NO features that justify that price. It is just a 10". For that much money, you can buy a top quality 12", a couple of great blades, a mobile stand and lots of other cool little doodads and still have enough left over to get the wife something nice to make up for spending $1300 without the proper consent.

$1300!?!?!?!?! American money?!?! Holy.....wow....yeah, not happenin here! It is nifty, I'll give em that. Unlike the Domino, however, it really doesn't do anything different the other guys do. The dual laser is cool...but lining up a MS has never been that problematic. I just pull the blade down and check where it's hitting the piece and cut. I know they'll be selling lots of these things, but there won't be one in this house. Even if I did crown molding for a living I wouldn't be able to justify that much money for a SCMS.

[Pogster]

Pricey but a very nice feature set indeed. But I have to say, to put all that engineering thought into a 10" saw is somewhat of a brain fart IMHO. They could have just as easily made it a 12" for even greater capacity. The 50/60 miter range also seems odd design wise. The angle finder tool is a nice touch though if it works well.

As impressive as the specs are I'll be even more impressed when some real world performance reviews are published. If it can't cut accurately it ain't worth diddly squat.

[canucksartech]

It is an extremely wild looking and performing SMS, from what I saw in that video. But $1300???!?!!!! Sorry...but NO. Even the Bosch's, as well as they perform and as high as they are rated, are only around 1/2 the price. Festool to me is too much of a kitsch boutique tool brand - they seem to cater to the people that believe money is absolutely no object, and will pay no matter the cost, just to be able to say they have the best, as decided on which tool cost the most. And Festool definitely does seem to cost the most.

It does seem very well thought out and engineered, but the addition of only a few more (slightly unnecessary) features does not really give way to the thought process of double the cost of other saws.

It's also kind of uuoogly, IMO. The green and black is one thing, but it seems very tall and narrow. I guess that's the point of compacting it for a smaller work space and shop, but I'd be worried about balance and stability without bolting it down.

I'm going to be going with the Bosch in the future myself.

[tchads]

Woodworkers Journal has a comparison of SCMS in the current issue. The Festool finished first but I think the Makita was the recommended choice as a better value.

For $1300 it should go and get the wood itself - and some coffee too!

[Mike from Pa]

I think they are made in Germany...that alone means so much in today's crappy everything made in china world.

[Velosapien]

If it wasn't because I still want to buy a few more tools for my shop I would possibly consider this saw if it actually lives up to expectations. It seems to be incredibly well thought out and while a lot of it seems to be little details sometimes those little details make all the difference. I would love to know how accurate it truly is.

The reason this thing is so expensive probably has more to do with the currency conversion rate than anything else. Imported european products are not cheap in the US now. Looking around this thing looks to sell for about 800euros. The euro is currently at almost 1.6 dollars which means comes to $1280.

[J-man12]

my question is are these festool tools worth the money??:eek:

[shofestoolusa]

First, let me say that I work for Festool and I hope I don't offend anyone by replying to the thread.

Before you shoot down the price tag you really need to see the Kapex in action. While the micro website shows off a lot of the cool and unique features of the Kapex, by using one in person (which you can do at most of our dealers now or in the near future since they are receiving their demo units) you can really appreciate the out-of-the-box accuracy.

Gary Katz (http://www.garymkatz.com/ToolReviews/Kapex.htm[/URL]) has ooh'ed and ahh'ed over the Kapex and he is probably one of the most well respected authorities on SCMS. And, he is not the only renowned expert in the woodworking industry that has raved about the Kapex. The reason for a 10"... we make PORTABLE power tools. At 47 lbs, this is a very light saw. In it's "special cutting position", it has a capacity that rivals most 12" saws. It is simply brilliantly engineered and designed to outlast and outperform other saws on the market.

One thing that I don't see mentioned in this thread is it's unsurpassed dust extraction (up to 91% effective). That alone saves time (and money) in clean up and gives you the ability to work onsite and impress your customers with not making a mess of their house.

The dual lasers can be independently "tweaked" to fine tune them to your liking using three axis pots.

Are Festool power tools with their money? Speak to anyone who owns one and ask, don't take my word for it. If you don't know about it, there is an indepently run forum called the Festool Owner's Group which many guys who are anxious to share their experiences with our tools at [URL]http://www.festoolownersgroup.com (http://www.garykatz.com). Once you've used a tool that just designed to work better, you'll realize that you've been doing things the hard way for so long. More accurate, less waste, work faster, power tools and accessories designed to work as a system, phenomenal dust extraction with all the tools, innovative features and capabilities, the guide rail system for saws and routers, the list goes on...

Of course, my opinions are biased so I encourage you to talk to fellow woodworkers, carpenters and craftspeople to get their opinions. I hope each of you at least entertain giving our products.

Faster. Easier. Smarter.

Shane

[garager]

Your first post and your pushing the tool, to sale. Me, I do find this a little tacky, close to being spam. But you didn't start the thread. I'm sure its a nice saw and all, but I like my Ridgid better. I don't carry my saws around, I wheel them around, easier. I can also buy a dust catcher for the saw, which should catch more than your 92% for $140.00, still under your price.

My blade is 12"s, so I can cut wider and thicker pieces, in which I actually do, do....

I have extensions, thats already with my saw. The saw sits at a perfect height for me, all of the time. Ahhh, and my Ridgid is very quiet. I can also run it at 40 below, how does your saw work at 40 below???

But I'm sure, you won't understand me, because you believe in your saw, thats what cha sell....

[shofestoolusa]

I was simply offering information to those who were seeking it. Definitely not trying to offend anyone with my post but it was on-topic and as you said I did not start the thread.

You know, I'm not sure about the specs for the minimum temperature for operating environment and I dare not make a guess because I was providing facts. I can say that our tools are tested under some of the most extreme conditions imagineable and will leave it at that.

With all due respect, Garager, that Fastcap Dust Hood you talk about in your other thread (http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140658&postcount=2) for $147 does not catch 91% of dust particles. There are a lot of particles left floating in the air and there is a distinct difference between particles and wood chips. But, in all fairness, that might be the right solution for you and others. Fastcap is a good brand and has a lot of smart products. Our two larger dust extractors even employ HEPA filtration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepa) which catch particles down to 0.3 microns, the human hair is about 80 microns. The Kapex can cut larger stock at 12 x 4" nominal which is greater capacity that your saw. In the nested position, crown can be cut up to 6-5/8". In the If I am I incorrect about the specs I quote for your saw, please feel free to correct me.

Sometimes bigger is not always better. I find it interesting that you say that you like your saw better but I doubt you have had hands-on with the Kapex since it does not debut until July 1st. And likewise, you will not believe me because that's what cha own. And, that's ok. My post was not for you but for those seeking information. PS - Woodworker's Journal June '08 rated the Kapex #1 in it's SCMS review.

I think all consumers should have the right to make an educated decision. Our saw may not be the right tool for everyone, there's a place in the market for all of these products. But in all fairness, the questions were asked and I tried to help answer those questions posed in the thread. Obviously some of you are curious because I see traffic coming to our website from this thread.

My sincere apologies to Garager and anyone I may have offended. I hope each of you find the power tool(s) that work best for you.

[Frankiarmz]

I own a DeWalt 12" and I'm happy with it so far. Yes, this sounds like a well engineered top notch saw but the price really turns me off. There is really no need in my opinion to charge so much more for those innovations and specs. That neat little angle finder can't cost more than ten bucks to make if that! I don't want to bash this thing, I just find the price excessive. I'll bet they could sell it for $600.00 and still make a profit. My wife and I were shopping around for watches to mark our twenty fifth wedding anniversay recently. I like nice things and I understand paying more for expensive metals and design but in most cases I felt I would be paying for the name. My thirty nine dollar Casio runs on sunlight, receives a radio signal to keep it right on time and will display in the dark. Oh, and I can work a sledge hammer while wearing it without a problem. There wasn't a single expensive watch that would do all that! I'm sure there are folks who buy these tools and can justify the cost and enjoy the performance, I can't but thanks for letting me see what money can buy.

[shofestoolusa]

Well put, Frank. Like I said, I think everyone has to make the right choice in power tools for their needs. This may not be the right saw for everyone but if you make your living behind a SCMS, it's definitely worth a look.

Regarding your comment about being able to sell it for $600 and make a profit, if that were the case then I suspect we would do that. I don't set the prices and don't even know the cost. I feel like most consumers have been lead to purchase on the price and not the value of a product. It shouldn't be about how much it costs, but instead about how much time it saves or how much more money you can make with it. Right?

IMO, a fair comparison with competing products would clearly show the higher ROI from our products. Not to mention that the guys who are selling their old tools are getting nearly what they paid for them so they retain their value probably better than any other power tool on the market. Don't believe me, check eBay.

[res057]

IMO, a fair comparison with competing products would clearly show the higher ROI from our products. Not to mention that the guys who are selling their old tools are getting nearly what they paid for them so they retain their value probably better than any other power tool on the market. Don't believe me, check eBay.

That's great that they get a good return, but,

Q. Why would somebody sell a "quality" power tool that they use to earn a living?
A. 1. They are seriously strapped for cash.
A. 2. They no longer need the tool.
A. 3. They are upgrading to a tool that suits their needs better.
A. 4. The tool did not live up to it's hype.
A. 5. The tool has been a problem child.

I'm not trying to bash your product, but a tools resale value is not usually a factor in the purchasing decision.
I've made what seems like miles of cuts with my 8 year old DeWalt 708. Would not trade it for any other. Dead on accurate and heavy enough to be stable. And yes, it travels in the back of my truck from job to job.

[Tyman]

I agree with Frank.

Come on, 1200.00:eek: I don't even consider that a fair price.

I would consider buying it if the saw said "Your Awesome" after every cut.

[shofestoolusa]

All of those scenarios certainly seem plausible and I don't claim to know the answer for every person who sells their tools. I would like to think it's because they are all upgrading to newer models :D but the reality is that's probably only partially true. For instance, two of the new products we just introduced are newer generations of existing products.

I'm not saying that resell value should be a primary consideration but for those who want to have the latest and greatest, it's something to think about. And, in all fairness, I doubt all owners of our tools make a living with them. So, not everyone selling a tool is selling their "bread and butter". I know as more of a hobbyist myself, most of my power tool purchases came as the result of a need for a particular project. Keeping that tool for the long haul may or may not make sense.

What I can address are those things you list which would be of concern to me as a consumer. Our tools come with a 30-day money back no questions guarantee if you are not satisfied so if it doesn't live up to the hype (so to speak) then just return it. Quick, easy, painless. At least then you will have answered the question of whether the price is worth it to you. The tools come with a 3-year warranty and we carry replacement parts for long after a tool is no longer manufactured.

Most people aren't aware of it but we are the innovators of a lot of technologies that are now widely used in the industry such as the orbital sander, the first eccentric sander, the first cordless drill with a brushless motor, the guide rail system for our plunge cut circular saws, the Domino joiner and the list goes on. It's like a woodworking epiphany, it's all about finding a better way to do things.

Look, I understand that my claims can (and probably should) be met with skepticism due to my affiliation. Just talk to someone who owns one of our tools. I'll let the tools and their owners speak for themselves. I would rather answer questions than sell tools unless I start getting a commission :p

Tyman, it actuallys says "YOU DA MAN!" after every cut.

[Frankiarmz]

Well put, Frank. Like I said, I think everyone has to make the right choice in power tools for their needs. This may not be the right saw for everyone but if you make your living behind a SCMS, it's definitely worth a look.

Regarding your comment about being able to sell it for $600 and make a profit, if that were the case then I suspect we would do that. I don't set the prices and don't even know the cost. I feel like most consumers have been lead to purchase on the price and not the value of a product. It shouldn't be about how much it costs, but instead about how much time it saves or how much more money you can make with it. Right?

IMO, a fair comparison with competing products would clearly show the higher ROI from our products. Not to mention that the guys who are selling their old tools are getting nearly what they paid for them so they retain their value probably better than any other power tool on the market. Don't believe me, check eBay.

I want to respond but all my thoughts will have you on the defensive, hope you don't think I am being disrespectful. Given your job title and how well you have represented yourself here, I am surprised that you do not know the production costs. Cost is a deciding factor for many people and the innovations and contribution to the industry do not justify a higher price tag in my opinion. I think if this saw was priced close to the competition it's selling points would give it the edge and you folks would still make a killing on volume alone. I'm not suggesting that a Mercedes be priced to compete with a Chevy, but the complications and fine features of your saw cannot possibly justify a price that is double the rest. Like I posted earlier, I'm good with what I have and I can appreciate the many benefits of what you have offered here, I just think if it was priced at let's say $700.00 it would be an easy sell. Maybe you could suggest to your superiors some of our feedback and remind them of the present condition of our economy. Best of luck.

[garager]

You never offended me and I hope I didn't offend you either. Its just funny, shortly after this saw is mentioned in here, someone from the company comes around and starts to somewhat brag about this saw. That is how spammers are doing their business these days. I'm not saying your spam, it just looks familiar. So how and why did you find us? If I was to go to Ryobi, Dewalt, Hitachi, etc, forums, would I find another topic such as this one there, whether or not your the responder or someone else for your company.

You see, the Plumbers just went thru a similar situation, which in turn got very heated up. The topic was bidets, this is a dead ringer of that discussion. They were not selling anything, but were pushing their bidet beliefs. So, maybe at least one person would get extremely curious and go off and buy a bidet, hoping it was theirs. But they never came right out and said, we'll sell you our bidets for this much $$$$, that would be spam.

Anyhow, I have 3 saws, used just about every day. At half the cost of your saw or even lesser than that and I have made a lot of money from all of them. And to resale, nope I'll just keep making more money with my saws. Then when I'm done with them, I'll give them away or they go to the scrap pile.

The cost of your saw is way to high, but theres no way I'm going to tell some company what they should sell them for, your profit margins are up to you. I do feel that the quality of my saws are right up there, shoot they never break down, so far. My newest saw is 3 yrs old now.

But we must remember something here, I build homes and big garages. I have used many, many saws. I do understand what comparison actually means, because I have been there. Drop your price tag at least $400.00, then I'll start to consider buying your saw. If you then tell me, "well your paying for quality".

Which in turn, a statement like that, would tell me, that no matter what saw I buy/own other then yours, all of mine are junk in comparison. But yet I have a saw thats, gosh lets see, 14 years old, cuts just fine, cuts a perfect miter. Thats what I expect my tools to do and thats perform for a long time. That 14 yr old saw cost me, I believe $400.00. Not to shabby for a non quality saw, wouldn't you think.

The nice thing about being a contractor is, I know a whole lot of other contractors. And we do share tools and experiences about our tools. If I pop up on another contractors job site, you can bet on me, I'll be using a tool of his/hers, just to see how well it operates. Enough of my babbling, I'm done here.

[woodenstickers]

I wanted to chime in and say first of all, franki, congrats on 25 years my man! That is inspiring. I spent all day looking at rings to try and start year number one hopefully soon.

Which brings me to my next point, I like all of the features and everything on this saw, but it is cost prohibitive when I have things like rings to buy. I appreciate the size and weight of it, and that it cuts better than most 12" saws. I would use it every single week if I had it, but I am still using my DeWalt 10 CMS that has seen heavy action for the last 5 or 6 years. Still cuts perfect, and the newer version was on sale at HD for $200 recently. In order to make the $1100 difference worth it at my present average hourly rate of $55 I'd have to save nearly 22 hrs of clean up etc. over the life of the saw. Thats a lot of broom strokes. So that means I'd have to weigh in the extra enjoyment I'd get from using the saw. Just not going to happen for me any time soon.:(

That said, I love to read about and learn about tools, even those that are out of my price range. I would love to own this saw, just like I'd love to own one of those Tesla electric super cars. While there was no new info in the posts from the festool employee that wasn't clearly on the weblink provided, I still liked to read his pitch. I'd probably be that excited too if I had a part in making such a tool. At this point I think he is still adding to the conversation, even if he is biased.

JMO


Eli

[cpw]

You never offended me and I hope I didn't offend you either. Its just funny, shortly after this saw is mentioned in here, someone from the company comes around and starts to somewhat brag about this saw. That is how spammers are doing their business these days. I'm not saying your spam, it just looks familiar. So how and why did you find us? If I was to go to Ryobi, Dewalt, Hitachi, etc, forums, would I find another topic such as this one there, whether or not your the responder or someone else for your company.
I think because he was up front about who he was and his bias, we shouldn't accuse him of spamming. Actually, if you go to other WW forums, there are lots of threads on Festool. It boils down to one group of people saying they are overpriced; a second group of people who wish they could afford them; and a third group of owners who think they are the best thing since sliced bread and once you spend money on one of their tools you'll end up spending money on a bunch more. SawStop threads follow a similar pattern, except there is an additional group that thinks Steve Gass is the devil.

Festool doesn't make the only $1300 miter saw. Here's a $4000 one!
http://www.omgainc.com/productfamily_detail.php?cid=2&sub_id=0&pid=12

[FINER9998]

at a shipping weight of 255lbs, that alone would rule it out as a portable saw.not to mention close to $4m for a miter saw! at that price, it better estimate the marterials and cost of the job, pick up and transport said materials to the job site, execute all cuts and perform the joinery while sweeping up the worksite when the job is done.

[res057]

The belt driven transmission and a powerful 4 HP induction motor

Yeah, I've often wished my mitersaw had 4HP...:rolleyes:

[garager]

I think because he was up front about who he was and his bias, we shouldn't accuse him of spamming. Actually, if you go to other WW forums, there are lots of threads on Festool. It boils down to one group of people saying they are overpriced; a second group of people who wish they could afford them; and a third group of owners who think they are the best thing since sliced bread and once you spend money on one of their tools you'll end up spending money on a bunch more. SawStop threads follow a similar pattern, except there is an additional group that thinks Steve Gass is the devil.

Festool doesn't make the only $1300 miter saw. Here's a $4000 one!
http://www.omgainc.com/productfamily_detail.php?cid=2&sub_id=0&pid=12

Not accusing, just stating it gives the impression to me that this looks like a spam. Which is just an opinion.

I've been around the block, the reason to show me an even more expensive saw, was a waste of your time. This guy (me) is far from being a rookie and I do visit other sites. Do you ever hear Josh bragging about Ridgid tools, even in his own site, thats why I come here.

The guy has made 4 posts, and all of them are in this thread, thats why this looks so familiar to the Bidet situation. Your new here, so you may have never seen what I'm talking about. You wanna read a heated book, type in Bidet in our search, then read.....

[Frankiarmz]

[QUOTE=woodenstickers;143835]I wanted to chime in and say first of all, franki, congrats on 25 years my man! That is inspiring. I spent all day looking at rings to try and start year number one hopefully soon.


Thank you. There have been plenty of ups and downs over the years, marriage is not a natural thing in my opinion but if you check your attitude it can be great. You seem like a good guy and if you treat your lady the way you would want someone to treat the daughter you may one day have, it helps . This is a wonderful time in both your lives, I wish you a long and happy life together.:clapping:

[shofestoolusa]

I just wanted to respond to the question about how I made my way onto thsi thread. As my title states, I am the E-Commerce Manager, and I noticed that a significant amount of visitors to our Kapex website were coming from this thread. Curiosity got the best of me so I came to see what was generating the traffic. I was definitely not trolling.

I appreciate the healthy conversation about the topic and each of your points of view.

[garager]

I just wanted to respond to the question about how I made my way onto thsi thread. As my title states, I am the E-Commerce Manager, and I noticed that a significant amount of visitors to our Kapex website were coming from this thread. Curiosity got the best of me so I came to see what was generating the traffic. I was definitely not trolling.

I appreciate the healthy conversation about the topic and each of your points of view.

Good enough for me, now I understand.

Yes your tools are damn good, no denying that. But the money is the issue here for a majority. So you would tend to think, if you would/could lower your price tag, your volume of sales would increase, and should make the company more money and more people to brag about your tools. Or is my line of thinking way off????

[shofestoolusa]

No, I think that it's a fair assumption to say that if the prices were lower that the volume would increase. There again, if we sold our tools in HD and other big name "discount" stores then we would possibly see increased sales. We have a different approach to how business should be done and stand by principles that have been in place for a long time.

The company is family owned by one of the two founding families and headquarters are in Germany. Our tools are manufactured in Germany and the Czech Republic, not Asia. There are so many people that complain about manufacturing being sent there but they still continue to buy products made in Asia. Our quality standards require tolerances of one part per million for defects. So, needless to say, very strict tolerances.

Our philosophy: "If the result of out work is not better than everything else on the market, we prefer not to come out with the tool at all".

It's not about selling millions of tools or slapping a new color on an existing product and calling it new and improved. It's about very thoughtful engineering going to a superior solution to a problem.

I know it may be impossible to convince you that our products are worth the price just by what I have to say. You have to get one in your hands and experience the difference to truly understand how a tool can be 2x, 3x, 4x more valuable. For those who don't make their living with tools, maybe these aren't the right choice.

[garager]

It's not about selling millions of tools or slapping a new color on an existing product and calling it new and improved. It's about very thoughtful engineering going to a superior solution to a problem.

I know it may be impossible to convince you that our products are worth the price just by what I have to say. You have to get one in your hands and experience the difference to truly understand how a tool can be 2x, 3x, 4x more valuable. For those who don't make their living with tools, maybe these aren't the right choice.


The motto is great, as long as the company can pull it off and stay in business, this is what I wish most brands would do.


You don't need to convince me, I know that you have a superior tool, then most other brands. However, I'm the kind of guy that cuts up 2"x4"s, pine construction lumber. I will do trim from time to time and build a cabinet or two, maybe even a table. This saw of yours, should be catered to the fine woodworkers. Theres no way I would take a chance of rain falling on a $1300.00 saw, I'm not always indoors.

I used to lug around chop saws in my arms, those days are over. So if you think that construction workers can benefit from your saw, I think you should have a special cart for it also, with extension arms also.

Now I'm from Northern Minnesota, who is your distributer in my area or state. Maybe out of curiosity and envy, I'll go check out your saw, hands on. Who knows, maybe I can be persuaded/convinced on buying one. I never totally close my eyes, unless they are really cheap made tools....

[Frankiarmz]

No, I think that it's a fair assumption to say that if the prices were lower that the volume would increase. There again, if we sold our tools in HD and other big name "discount" stores then we would possibly see increased sales. We have a different approach to how business should be done and stand by principles that have been in place for a long time.

The company is family owned by one of the two founding families and headquarters are in Germany. Our tools are manufactured in Germany and the Czech Republic, not Asia. There are so many people that complain about manufacturing being sent there but they still continue to buy products made in Asia. Our quality standards require tolerances of one part per million for defects. So, needless to say, very strict tolerances.

Our philosophy: "If the result of out work is not better than everything else on the market, we prefer not to come out with the tool at all".

It's not about selling millions of tools or slapping a new color on an existing product and calling it new and improved. It's about very thoughtful engineering going to a superior solution to a problem.

I know it may be impossible to convince you that our products are worth the price just by what I have to say. You have to get one in your hands and experience the difference to truly understand how a tool can be 2x, 3x, 4x more valuable. For those who don't make their living with tools, maybe these aren't the right choice.

The best of anything will always carry a higher price tag and at the same time price itself out of the hands of many consumers. The American consumer has taken a beating these last few years, with jobs shipped overseas and oil prices taking more and more of our income. I think manufacturers will have a choice to either lower prices or find a new consumer market. Wheter these tools will be used by the professional or the woodworker at double the price they will not find their way into many hands. In my opinion Hilti makes the top of the line hammerdrills and related tools, even they have lowered themselves to sell in Home Depot. I for one am convinced you have a dam good tool there and maybe it is the best right now, but you need to be convinced that you can price yourself out of the market. Charge $700.00 which is about two hundred above the rest, we all know the production cost and design will not be nearly that much more. You end up selling more and making more profit and the consumers professional and otherwise benefit from the best there is, right? Admit that at this rate all sales will be dropping, so keep your elite pricing and warehouse your stock.

[shofestoolusa]

Garager, I'll PM you a link but you can visit our website and click the link for "find a dealer" to locate one in your area if you want to see it in operation. I would sugges that you call ahead though because we only started shipping the Kapex to dealers this past week in preparation for the July 1 launch. By the way, as an ex-climber, I like your signature line.

Don't get the impression that our tools need to be pampered and can't withstand the test of the elements. For instance...

We perform a test where Arizona dust is blown on a tool in a dust chamber while the tool is running. The time taken for the tool to fail under these conditions is measured. This is how it is determined if the switch, electronic parts and gears withstand the toughest conditions in a dusty environment and meet the minimum durability requirements of the tool. Arizona dust is supposedly the most aggressive dust in the world.


http://www.festoolusa.com/sysnotes/arizona-sand-test.jpg

[garager]

Garager, I'll PM you a link but you can visit our website and click the link for "find a dealer" to locate one in your area if you want to see it in operation. I would sugges that you call ahead though because we only started shipping the Kapex to dealers this past week in preparation for the July 1 launch. By the way, as an ex-climber, I like your signature line.

Don't get the impression that our tools need to be pampered and can't withstand the test of the elements. For instance...

We perform a test where Arizona dust is blown on a tool in a dust chamber while the tool is running. The time taken for the tool to fail under these conditions is measured. This is how it is determined if the switch, electronic parts and gears withstand the toughest conditions in a dusty environment and meet the minimum durability requirements of the tool. Arizona dust is supposedly the most aggressive dust in the world.


http://www.festoolusa.com/sysnotes/arizona-sand-test.jpg

Hahaha, you understood my signature, a lot of people asks me what does it mean, cool....

I have no desert here, can you tell me if its been tested in a cold climate, minimum of zero degrees - 40 below?

[plumberscrack]

Hahaha, you understood my signature, a lot of people asks me what does it mean, cool....

I have no desert here, can you tell me if its been tested in a cold climate, minimum of zero degrees - 40 below?

Who the hell cuts wood at 40 below? :scratchhead:

Ok maybe firewood but I'm not using my new $1400 mitre saw to do that :D

[garager]

Crack, I still need to bring home the bacon, even in the middle of winter. And its not all that bad, you'd get used to it after a few years....:D

[shofestoolusa]

I have no desert here, can you tell me if its been tested in a cold climate, minimum of zero degrees - 40 below?

Yup, no deserts in MN. I don't have that spec so I am going to see if I can find out for you. I'll post back once I find out.

[RiR]

Make one that'll do all that in stainless, (with lots of nice,messy oil/water cooling) and I'll pay 5x that price for it.

[woodenstickers]

Who knows, maybe I can be persuaded/convinced on buying one. I never totally close my eyes, unless they are really cheap made tools....

AACK! Garager! Stay strong! I want this saw soo bad that if you end up getting it and report back that it is worth every penny I'll break. I can feel it in my gut right now anyway. You know that little conversation us tool whores have with ourselves?

Mine usually starts out with reminding myself that tools are my hobby as well as my livelihood, so I am entitled to treat myself to a good tool the same way others treat themselves to a new driver or surfboard or ski pass. Then I go into reminding myself how much I enjoy all of the great tools I have bought over the years, and how very little (almost nil) regret I have ever experienced once the tools are being used. Then I start to think about what kind of money I have that is not really earmarked for anything at the moment. I just paid off my truck for example--thats $479 a month in my pocket! Plus the $600 tax "refund". Plus the increase in sales at my office.

And hey, can you really put a price tag on your health? 92% of dust?!? That's a lot man! *puffs on his menthol cigarette thoughtfully*

Shoot, maybe I should get a part time job as a salesman, then I could afford all these toys!

Don't do it man. If a guy I look up to like you on this forum caves that'll be the straw on the camels back!:D



Eli

[Arthur96]

Most people aren't aware of it but we are the innovators of a lot of technologies that are now widely used in the industry such as the orbital sander, the first eccentric sander,



sorry i beg to differ. some of the first hand held orbital and eccentric sanders were air tools produced primarily for the auto body industry

being in the trades for 30 years and still going the first true orbital and eccentric sander i saw on the market and have owned and used BTW was from AEG still got it too that was soon followed by porter-cable before that there were several attachments that were made to be put on 4 inch grinders but they usually fell apart because at the time grinders were not of the variable speed variety and at 10K RPM the rubber for these attachments would separate from the attachments base.

but thats no big deal really you guys make a great sander one of if not the best all-be-it EXPENSIVE and that seems to be the prevailing sentiment here.

in my 30 years in the trades I've used many many tools and many brands of SCMS in fact i think that i was among the very First people to actually use a SCMS on jobs that was portable. it was a sears mini radial arm saw thing that slid on a rail but also had a table like todays saws for mitering it was GREAT but only had a 6 1/2 inch blade.

Anyway today most of us use one SCMS for all our jobs from framing, decks, Trim, small and large stuff we usually only carry one so its gotta be versatile, accurate and trouble free. the weight well when i was younger i didn't care LOL now i get the kids to roll them out :)

one feature i love about the Kaypax is the depth of cut adjustment. it seems very accurate and fast and would be great for slotting out 4 X 4 posts for decks.

the lasers are great too i like that they are not arbor mounted and that makes laying out your cut much faster.

However all that being said i must agree with a previous poster that this saw should have been a 12" because like i said most of us just buy and use the ONE saw all the time and don't have several of them for different types of jobs and the bigger blade just seems to lend itself to more versatility. Also price yea 1300 WAY too much and yeas i DO make my living behind a SCMS if ya sold these 10 inchers for $500 to $600 you wouldn't be able to Keep them on the shelves trust me.

At any rate WOW never thought this thread would grow like this so thats cool that theres an active discution.......thats what we are all about i guess all here to learn from each other. so Great tool there festool just umm ya know think about us working stiffs too a Little on pricing.