pricing

[mrs. westcoast]

this is from the local plumber that lives in the same city..

scroll down for the price list

[Service Guy]

Weird, all his water heaters are 1250?

I have totally different prices for gas or electric and different sizes. I think my price book has about 20 different water heater prices.

I cetainly would never charge someone 1250 to install a 40 gallon electric heater that costs $250 and takes an hour! :smack-head:

[DuckButter]

At a glance, his prices seem pretty par for the course...except the water heater for $1250, as Service guy noted...there are powervents, indirects, electric, natural vent, LP, oil, tankless...each has a different price which also depends on warranty.
$1250 for a gravity vent 40 gal might be a bit much, for a 50 gal powervent it's not too bad, depending what he installs.
I can see customers calling the next ad on the list when they see that price and remember what the neighbor paid for a 30 gal natural vent...or blowing a gasket over "false" advertizing if they want an indirect.

[NorthernIllinoisPlumber]

I like the wedding photo!

[aero1]

its bold and edgy been done before, everything looks the same over the phone. companys that do this end up shooting themselves in the foot.

[Masterplumb]

It would be a cold day in hell before I climbed a roof to snake from the VTR.

I think his drain cleaning prices are low. Especially if he is climbing a roof to snake it.

[Tyman]

I agree, the drain prices are too low. 69.00 wouldn't even get my pants on.

[MrsSeatDown]

I agree, the drain prices are too low. 69.00 wouldn't even get my pants on.

I somehow have a feeling we wouldn't want that. . .you to do plumbing without your pants on:lmao:

[Nevada plumber]

I like how he words it for the toilet prices. Fluidmaster is $120. Fluidmaster and flapper is $240. That's an expensive flapper. If he feels like it, maybe a new handle in that price also. I got a chuckle out of that. I hope his price book has many more categories then his website.

Also, his drain cleaning prices are way low. I never understood why people feel the need to charge less for playing with other peoples waste.

[garager]

I can't figure you guys out. One of the last thing in the world I would do is give away my pricing/bids/income, other then to a customer and my wife, well maybe not even her. But you guys are always carrying on about this stuff, here in a forum. Nobody will really have the same pricing, and you all don't have the exact same experience.

Pricing is about, in order to stay in business and have a decent income. We do have to buy our own health insurances, and so many other things. I wish I had someone to tell me what I should charge when I started out. This is what experiences are about. Keeping daily log books, in order to bid more efficiently, knowing exactly what your overhead is, and what it will be and so on and so on.

But the biggest thing is, is demand. With experience comes demand for you and your company. Where as you should be able to charge and pick as the calls come in. When your in demand, that proves you have a great company, pricing is right and quality of workmanship is right on.

Then flat rate jumps back in to the topics, "see" I just did it. But you guys just keep on telling the rest of the world, why you charge and how much. Comparison should maybe be in the chatroom or PM's. Now I'll probably get my ars chewed out for coming in here and asking a stupid question, and here it is.

Why do you always talk about what you charge??????

Besides, theres really no two jobs/situations that are alike.

Ok I'll shut up and go back to the woodbutchers area... :D :D

[Service Guy]

I can't figure you guys out. One of the last thing in the world I would do is give away my pricing/bids/income, other then to a customer and my wife, well maybe not even her. But you guys are always carrying on about this stuff, here in a forum. Nobody will really have the same pricing, and you all don't have the exact same experience.

Pricing is about, in order to stay in business and have a decent income. We do have to buy our own health insurances, and so many other things. I wish I had someone to tell me what I should charge when I started out. This is what experiences are about. Keeping daily log books, in order to bid more efficiently, knowing exactly what your overhead is, and what it will be and so on and so on.

But the biggest thing is, is demand. With experience comes demand for you and your company. Where as you should be able to charge and pick as the calls come in. When your in demand, that proves you have a great company, pricing is right and quality of workmanship is right on.

Then flat rate jumps back in to the topics, "see" I just did it. But you guys just keep on telling the rest of the world, why you charge and how much. Comparison should maybe be in the chatroom or PM's. Now I'll probably get my ars chewed out for coming in here and asking a stupid question, and here it is.

Why do you always talk about what you charge??????

Besides, theres really no two jobs/situations that are alike.

Ok I'll shut up and go back to the woodbutchers area... :D :D

What I can't figure out is why non-pro-plumbers come to the PRO PLUMBING SUB-FORUM only to whine about what we talk about here?:scratchhead:

[Service Guy]

Oh yeah, and there are 20 different threads in this sub-forum on page 1 and only this one is about pricing. So we are not ALWAYS talking about pricing. But yeah, we do this for money and the subject comes up among us.

[garager]

What I can't figure out is why non-pro-plumbers come to the PRO PLUMBING SUB-FORUM only to whine about what we talk about here?:scratchhead:

:lmao: Yeah I probably deserved that one....:eek: :cool:

[Service Guy]

:lmao: Yeah I probably deserved that one....:eek: :cool:

:nyaa-nyaa4::cool:

[JCsPlumbing]

[quote=garager;144508]I can't figure you guys out. One of the last thing in the world I would do is give away my pricing/bids/income, other then to a customer and my wife, well maybe not even her. But you guys are always carrying on about this stuff, here in a forum. Nobody will really have the same pricing, and you all don't have the exact same experience.

Pricing is about, in order to stay in business and have a decent income. We do have to buy our own health insurances, and so many other things. I wish I had someone to tell me what I should charge when I started out. This is what experiences are about. Keeping daily log books, in order to bid more efficiently, knowing exactly what your overhead is, and what it will be and so on and so on.

But the biggest thing is, is demand. With experience comes demand for you and your company. Where as you should be able to charge and pick as the calls come in. When your in demand, that proves you have a great company, pricing is right and quality of workmanship is right on.

Then flat rate jumps back in to the topics, "see" I just did it. But you guys just keep on telling the rest of the world, why you charge and how much. Comparison should maybe be in the chatroom or PM's. Now I'll probably get my ars chewed out for coming in here and asking a stupid question, and here it is.

Why do you always talk about what you charge??????

Besides, theres really no two jobs/situations that are alike.








I agree with The Garager. (<-Sounds like some kind of superhero that whoops *** with a garage door spring)

I think they/we talk about it out of fear. Fear we aren't charging enough or someone else is charging more. Fear we aren't keeping up with the value of our work, knowledge, & service.

What I've tried to get across to people is that what I charge has nothing to do with what they charge. They might charge more, they might charge less. It's none of my business.

And each area is different. Cost of living, insurance, fuel, travel times, population density, etc. I may be able to charge twice what someone else would for the same service. Or vice/versa.

We're all just trying to maximize our business by talking about it sometimes I guess.

J.C.

By the way, not to hijack the thread, how's your health?

[garager]

Getting better, thank you..... :)

I didn't want it to be a big deal with my question, just trying to understand and you said it so well.....

[DuckButter]

I agree with The Garager. (<-Sounds like some kind of superhero that whoops *** with a garage door spring)

I think they/we talk about it out of fear. Fear we aren't charging enough or someone else is charging more. Fear we aren't keeping up with the value of our work, knowledge, & service.

What I've tried to get across to people is that what I charge has nothing to do with what they charge. They might charge more, they might charge less. It's none of my business.

And each area is different. Cost of living, insurance, fuel, travel times, population density, etc. I may be able to charge twice what someone else would for the same service. Or vice/versa.

We're all just trying to maximize our business by talking about it sometimes I guess.

J.C.

By the way, not to hijack the thread, how's your health?

I'd like to point out the other side of this argument.
Many state websites list license suspensions, probations and terminations.
In my state the most common reason is "received payment and never completed work" or similar.
Guys with no concept on what to charge or what rates are reasonable bid low for fear of not getting work, unknowing homeowners or greedy GC's eat it up, Joe plumber has to decide between paying the mortgage or buying the stock to finish the remodel he drastically underbid.
I wouldn't care, except that I get the priviledge of losing work to those guys, and admittedly, I have been one of those guys to a degree.
I'd just as soon let my competition know he beat my price on a water heater by a couple of hundred so he knows he could at least get more the next time and stop driving the local market down.

[DuckButter]

I agree, the drain prices are too low. 69.00 wouldn't even get my pants on.
:eek:
Whats the charge to...er...get you to keep 'em on?

[PLUMBER RICK]

i don't personally know the company, other than getting their flyer's a couple times a year.

they price their drain cleaning low to get their foot in the door. other local co's do the same and i can tell you, there is always an attempt to up-charge when they are there.

i've done lots of follow up work with similar co's that work this way.

look at the pricing for a ground c/o$95 and the added $60 for a roof top.

then look at the price on a roof top vent cleaning. $180.

numbers don't add up to the same price:confused:

as mentioned by another.

look at the toilet ballcock $120 then the ballcock with flapper $240 with a possibility of a handle, flush valve and tank to bowl kit.

who in their right mind would pay an extra 120 for a flapper?

why would they charge you for the extras, if they don't always do them?

not to start the flat vrs. t&m debate again:shocked2:

but you pay for what i do. not for what you might or might not get or need:nono:

rick.

[DuckButter]

i don't personally know the company, other than getting their flyer's a couple times a year.

they price their drain cleaning low to get their foot in the door. other local co's do the same and i can tell you, there is always an attempt to up-charge when they are there.

Oh and there's that...Home Depot was advertising rock bottom prices for water heater installs, they pay their subs less than half my rate.
The subs wind up telling customers there are necessary extra's or they can't do the job.
Got a call last year, told the guy my price, he tells me HD offered the same for $200 less..I warned him.
He calls back two days later, they told him the vent into the chimney was no good & it would be another $275 to replace.
$275 for a 3" galvy 90 and all of 24" of 3" smoke pipe.
I did the job, he finally took a shower.

[westcoastplumber]

I like how he words it for the toilet prices. Fluidmaster is $120. Fluidmaster and flapper is $240. That's an expensive flapper. If he feels like it, maybe a new handle in that price also. I got a chuckle out of that. I hope his price book has many more categories then his website.

Also, his drain cleaning prices are way low. I never understood why people feel the need to charge less for playing with other peoples waste.



Because it gets them in the door and then they rape away!! The standard stoppage turns into a broken "EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE REPLACED" call.

[Gene Bickford]

From LA to Vermont:grinning-moose:. Holy culture shock.

OH. Don't forget to bring bug spray:D

[PLUMBER RICK]

just to show you how ridiculous your theory is. i will give you an example and if you have the guts to explain it, we all would love to know.

$120 to replace a fluidmaster ballcock. this being a 5 minute job once in the house. the ballcocks have a selling price that varies from $6.00-$15.00.

so in 5 minutes you just generated $105-$114. or take away $3.00 if you replace the water flex. price sheet didn't mention this, so i assume it's extra.

now lets compare this to your $65.00 sewer cleaning from ground level cleanout up to 150'.

you have a $2000-$3000 machine with $300. worth of cable that eventually needs replacing along with the cutters.
time required to properly clean a 150' line is approx. 45 minutes to an hour. this is assuming you don't have a tug of war with roots.

please explain the discrepancy in pricing between a ballcock and a sewer cleaning.

or is this just a ploy to get your foot in the door:confused:

i think i'll refer you to a couple of my problem customers and see what the real facts are with your pricing.

please answer, or run like a coward:turtle:

rick.

[Service Guy]

Personally, I have to agree with Rick. I could care less how much they charge, but the discrepencies in pricing are bizarre. Some 'easy' tasks are more expensive than some 'difficult' tasks.

But even that is a matter of opinion I guess. The bottom line is anytime you make your service pricing completely public, it will be scrutinized. Its why you hardly ever see hourly rates advertised, etc. Thats just how it is. I am proud of my pricing system, but I'm sure if I posted my price book publicly, a lot of people here (or anywhere) would criticize it in some way or another.

[ToUtahNow]

Personally, I have to agree with Rick. I could care less how much they charge, but the discrepencies in pricing are bizarre. Some 'easy' tasks are more expensive than some 'difficult' tasks.

But even that is a matter of opinion I guess. The bottom line is anytime you make your service pricing completely public, it will be scrutinized. Its why you hardly ever see hourly rates advertised, etc. Thats just how it is. I am proud of my pricing system, but I'm sure if I posted my price book publicly, a lot of people here (or anywhere) would criticize it in some way or another.

Your prices are crazy.

Mark

[Service Guy]

Your prices are crazy.

Mark

:duck:

[DuckButter]

Your prices are crazy.

Mark
Oh yeah...well...you're just crazy period.:eek:

[DuckButter]

Rick, ya bulldog you.
I see your point, his prices are all over the place...I have to wonder if maybe he intentionally prices certain tasks higher because he just plain doesn't like that work...but then, $65 for a drain cleaning is financial suicide, dunno...your prolly right, there's gotta be a catch.

[JCsPlumbing]

I understand Rick completely. And think like most of you (sometimes :D). But here's a question I wonder:

Is this company making more money, ethically, this way?

J.C.

[JCsPlumbing]

I almost forgot, to City Girl, if you're not going to reply to criticism or messages, then why post at all?

That really shows tremendous weakness in the marketing plan that you're suggesting. Any business with a possible better plan for some or all should be able to do both easily.

J.C.

[gear junkie]

Nobody gives something for free. There's always a catch. This free software you're giving away; what's in it for you? Any viruses in there that would allow you access to our files? I would rather live a comfortable life being able to sleep at night than an extragegent life by ripping people off. Thanks for the offer though.

[Service Guy]

:killingme:

[HVAC HAWK]

city girl if you cant chat then you should :packed: and go away because with an attitude like that it will not take long for people to :barf: :kma: all over you

:dance::killingme::killingme:

[ToUtahNow]

Nobody gives something for free. There's always a catch. This free software you're giving away; what's in it for you? Any viruses in there that would allow you access to our files? I would rather live a comfortable life being able to sleep at night than an extragegent life by ripping people off. Thanks for the offer though.
__________________
Buy cheap, buy twice.
Last edited by gear junkie; Today at 05:41 PM.

From City Girl: You seem like a lonely guy. Would you like be to be more insulting, like you? I must have been wrong. I thought forums were supposed to share valuable information and to share software.

You say there is always a catch. Do you make this statement because that is the only way you can do business? You insult me with your pooping smiley. Is your butthole the first thing that always comes to your mind.

Every forum has multiple members that fit your profile. You don't have anything intelligent to say so you have to insult people.

Let me insult you for a minute. I spent two hours writing two valuable posts regarding the software and business program I am going to give away for free WITH NO CATCHES. I'm only 35 years old and I never sat on my butt writing posts to insult people. I am a Filippina (that is a female). I have been in this country for only 10 years. I am an analyst and advisor for several contractors and other firms. Some firms pay me $50,000 to over $100,000 per year to organize their businesses. I own over 112 house in California, Idaho, Denver, Massachusetts, and the Philippines, and have a net worth of over $11 million.

Now, for someone who can't believe I would give away free software, I am positive that you don't believe a word I said.

I will never charge anyone a penny for anything I offer or do. I'm not like you. I believe in helping people FOR FREE WITHOUT A CATCH.

If there are any open-minded members who would like help with marketing, advertising, software, and closing sales, I will give you valuable information for free. If I were to ask for a penny then you can ban me from the forum.

Incidentally, I sent two long posts on how to run a business and how to use the software and I was banned for spamming. Wow! I was apalled. How can two posts be spamming?

If you want serious help contact me privately, to avoid Mr. Catch's sound advice. Yes! I have an attitude problem. No man in my life to boss me around!

City Girl






That's fine you send me some contact information about you and your company and prove me wrong and I may un-delete the posts which I believe to be SPAM. My job is to help protect the members on this forum and while the Administrator is on vacation I am not taking any chances.

[Service Guy]

This is great stuff. I love it!
:killingme: <-my feeling right now

[Service Guy]

Citycirl claims to have a net worth of over 11 million dollars.:rolleyes: First of all, why would she be an employee to you Bestline, if thats the case? And also why would she waste time here giving out free advice and software to strangers?:confused:

[JCsPlumbing]

If somebody is in there area, PLEASE go check them out. We might learn something to really increase our earnings.

But more likely it's a load and I would like someone locally to go and see for themselves.

That way we could stop this dance and get to work.

J.C.

[spodelee]

Hello. Thank you!

Hi:
I am the owner of Bestline plumbing and my business analyst tells me that you have a lot of questions. I will be more than happy to help a fellow plumber.

I run a small shop near Los Angeles, have about 8 plumbers and about 22 more employees that do work no so related to plumbing. I've been in business since I was old enough to walk. My plumbing shop does about three to four million dollars annualy. I will be happy to give you anything that you think will help.

Incidendally, City Girl is one of my employees. She is currently in the Philippines on a business trip. She sent me an email this morning that she posted a link on the forum where you can download free software and your monitor removed the link and banned her for spamming. What is this all about?

If you need help or have questions, email me directly, or call me any time at 800-342-9559, or stop in and visit me in Gardena.

Leonard

I was sitting in a bar one day and a customer was complaining that the air traffic controllers were crooks because they were striking for $50 an hour. I turned to him and said, "it is obvious that you don't earn $50 perhour because if you were you would not be complaining." My point is, you can tell a lot about a person by the way he criticizes or complains about others. Successful people are telling good stories that are helpful to others. Losers and have not always have to bash someone because they can't perform. My moral is, you and are not crooks just because we have the ability to excel in making profits.

I believe opportunity knock every so often and people lose out because they can't see there is no lock on the door. You need to enter when the open door is available.

Oh boy, this should be fun to talk about -

http://www.bestlineplumbing.com/7%20Prices%20List.htm

:party-on:

[ToUtahNow]

I have Googled the number 800-342-9559 and it does in fact go to Bestline Plumbing and to SA Invest To. A quick check with the Contractors Board shows a Lenoard is the owner of Bestline Plumbing. If anyone would care to call Lenoard at the listed number I am sure he can help you contact his employee with the free software. As such she will not need to post a link here. However, unless Josh lifts the ban when he gets back nothing will change with her ban.

Mark

[rick1643]

If somebody is in there area, PLEASE go check them out. We might learn something to really increase our earnings.

But more likely it's a load and I would like someone locally to go and see for themselves.

That way we could stop this dance and get to work.

J.C.

Thats Westcoast Plumbers area, and Plumber Rick is not too far from there. Also Drtyhands is out that way as well.

[spodelee]

If somebody is in there area, PLEASE go check them out. We might learn something to really increase our earnings.

But more likely it's a load and I would like someone locally to go and see for themselves.

That way we could stop this dance and get to work.

J.C.

I think we could learn something here -

http://www.bestlineplumbing.com/2%20Drain%20cleaning.htm

NOT... the ol' bait & switch never fails - geeez, I have been fighting this filth for decades.

I have a better business model:

1. As a licensed contractor you are not WalMart, who offers the "Blue Light Special", but has customers who enjoy the luxury of taking or leaving their special, at their convenience, without consequence.

As a state licensed contractor, the consumer who takes advantage of your "Blue Light Special" is standing in 2" of water and maybe a shovel full of poop. They are not in a position to make a logical decision that is in their best interest. They called you because your add offered a cheap service and they "think" your service will fit their budget. Little do they know, your intent is to dispatch a technician at a loss, with the hope that on average you will recoup your loss by "needing" more of your services while the consumer stands in a pile of poop.

Never deceive the public by advertising at a loss in order to get your foot in the door. By doing so you are lying to the public and to yourself. I know it, you know it and ultimately, with a little luck, the State Attorney General will know it.

2. Advertise at a higher price than your competitors, do it right, pull permits as required by law, offer benefits that can't be matched by your competitors, and enjoy success in advertising by demonstrating value that far exceeds the price. Works every time - flawlessly - for decades now - not to mention you will probably sleep better.

[rick1643]

I think we could learn something here -

http://www.bestlineplumbing.com/2%20Drain%20cleaning.htm

NOT... the ol' bait & switch never fails - geeez, I have been fighting this filth for decades.

I have a better business model:

1. As a licensed contractor you are not WalMart, who offers the "Blue Light Special",Blue Light Special was K-mart but has customers who enjoy the luxury of taking or leaving their special, at their convenience, without consequence.

As a state licensed contractor, the consumer who takes advantage of your "Blue Light Special" is standing in 2" of water and maybe a shovel full of poop. They are not in a position to make a logical decision that is in their best interest. They called you because your add offered a cheap service and they "think" your service will fit their budget. Little do they know, your intent is to dispatch a technician at a loss, with the hope that on average you will recoup your loss by "needing" more of your services while the consumer stands in a pile of poop.

Never deceive the public by advertising at a loss in order to get your foot in the door. By doing so you are lying to the public and to yourself. I know it, you know it and ultimately, with a little luck, the State Attorney General will know it.

2. Advertise at a higher price than your competitors, do it right, pull permits as required by law, offer benefits that can't be matched by your competitors, and enjoy success in advertising by demonstrating value that far exceeds the price. Works every time - flawlessly - for decades now - not to mention you will probably sleep better.

good post

[drtyhands]

I wasn't going to include asian in my earlier vision.But since you brought it up first.

I KNEW IT!!!!!!
BLAH-HA- HAAAAAA!!!!!

Thanks,but no thanks from me.I don't care how many newby boys that want fast money spend the rest of their carrier making money and not knowing nothing more than a good sales pitch.They are giving themselves a bad name and I'm enjoying telling every one in my community what the long winded guy's all about.

[Service Guy]

I still don't understand why you or your 'citygirl' are so interested in educating your competition on how to make millions??? it still sounds to me like you are pitching a sale of some sort. Honestly , it sounds like you are selling a franchise business model.

[gear junkie]

Leonard, why are you so eager to help total strangers? When most helpful people are refused they politely go about their way. They're not as persistent as you or city girl. You seem to have a different way to go about business but it appears you're successful at what you do. Why do I deserve your hard earned money as it was your blood, sweat and tears that developed your system. Why give it to me and others for free?

[PLUMBER RICK]

i might take one for the team and take a field trip with the west coast team. robert is probably 5 minutes from there. i'm 30 minutes and adam is 1 hour.

if you guys are up for it, we can do a lunch and learn session.

maybe a mini roundup. but as adam said, these guys are more sales than plumbers. i rather doubt that any of them have a formal education and really know plumbing. to me it sounds more like a sales pitch than a knowledgeable plumber.

not knocking you bossman, but i doubt your a trained hands on plumber. but more of a businessman. i worked for a very successful union new construction plumbing shop for 13 years and the owner knew #'s. he couldn't even change an aerator without screwing it up. he made millions, but because of us. the licensed journeymen union educated plumbers.

i'll talk to the posse and see about the road trip. i'm up for it.:packed:

rick.

[bestline3]

Forgot my pasword two times today and registered three times. Now the monitor mentor is going to ban be.

Old age is setting in. Maybe that is the reason why.

You can download the software directly from my web site.

Lighten up. You worry to much. This is not the first time I an giving away trade secrets. Not really a secret any more. I didn't start all this. It was the City Girl. You people should never have visited my web site from the beginning. City Girl uses a web site tracker on our web site. She noticed that several people from the forum were looking at the site. She went to the forum and saw the posts about prices and noticed the bashers talking down. She asked if she could put her two cents (sense) into the forum. Why not?

No, we will never ask you for money, we will never ask you to join, nor for your first-born.

I was listening to the Tech Guy on 640 AM yesterday. He was talking about how worthless software is due to the cheap way the internet can send software across the planet.

Are you telling me that, if you had some information I wanted, you have to charge me? You have the opportunity to make millions of dollars the honest way. Use it. Get it out out your head that every successful plumber has to be a crook (won't mention no names) and some of the best things in life may come free.

The software serves my needs. What is the difference who made the software. Suppose you could buy it at a store for $29. Then everyone could have the software. I'm not going to be s selfish jerk and keep it for myself just because I made it.

I've been giving software and information to plumbers for years. I sent many copies to the Plumber's Discussion Group members almost 15 years ago.

Bad part of all of this is; you may not like the software and many plumbers won't take the time to use the software even if they love it.

Bottom line. If you want to improve your business, look at the software instructions and then download MS Access if you don't have it.

Go to Bestlines main page and click on the link Software - Free



Leonard

[JCsPlumbing]

?

[ToUtahNow]

So that you guys know I did check on Bestline Plumbing and they have been in business as licensed plumbing contractors in California since the 70s. Leonard has told you where his software is available for download and has given you his phone number. He has also invited you to call him if you have any questions.

Mark

[MrsSeatDown]

I didn't start all this. It was the City Girl. You people should never have visited my web site from the beginning. City Girl uses a web site tracker on our web site. She noticed that several people from the forum were looking at the site. She went to the forum and saw the posts about prices and noticed the bashers talking down. She asked if she could put her two cents (sense) into the forum. Why not?

Leonard

I am not agreeing with this guys business methods; however, I completely agree with this.

This is exactly why I thought it was a bad decision to post other people's websites on here. It is one thing to post your own. But when you randomly post other's websites they will take notice. Then I do feel they have a right to come here and see what others are doing and why they keep going to their site.

This should be a lesson for everyone. Others may also feel they are practicing business contrary to themselves. But these people did not come here soliciting on their own. They felt forum members were showing interest in their business/products by suddenly visiting their site.

[drtyhands]

I am not agreeing with this guys business methods; however, I completely agree with this.

This is exactly why I thought it was a bad decision to post other people's websites on here. It is one thing to post your own. But when you randomly post other's websites they will take notice. Then I do feel they have a right to come here and see what others are doing and why they keep going to their site.

This should be a lesson for everyone. Others may also feel they are practicing business contrary to themselves. But these people did not come here soliciting on their own. They felt forum members were showing interest in their business/products by suddenly visiting their site.

Thank you for taking the time to explain to me.I just don't want what they are selling.

[MrsSeatDown]

Thank you for taking the time to explain to me.I just don't want what they are selling.

Me either. But I do understand they feel interest was sparked in their company because of all the people that went to look at their site.

[DuckButter]

I'd be more than happy to give an answer on whether I want what they're selling if I could figure out just what that is.

[bestline3]

TRAINING ON HOW TO MARKET AND SELL

This is a link to a lot of free software and other things. It is virus free because I made it. Try the PowerPoint program that teaches the plumbing code.

http://www.box.net/shared/i3tbsnzc4o

Why would we drain cleaning for $49.
How do you, honestly, turn a $49 job into thousands of dollars.

To believe what I am going to tell you, it is important that you download
the pictures in the folder named 'Pictures 063008.

Make it clear that we never charge a penny more that $49 and if we can't clean the drain we will not charge one penny.

The first part of the answer is this. Ninety-nine percent (99%) of our advertising mentions only drain cleaning. For some mysterious reason a very large percentage of our business is not drain cleaning.

After customers see our low drain cleaning prices, for 35 years, the customer would have to assume that we do other types of plumbing. I hate to install water heaters and we installed 3 water heaters today for $1200 each. These customers called, specifically for a new water heater, and we quoted the price over the phone. No ripping of.

You must look at the pictures to understand this part. On an average day we sell about $15,000. When things are hot we can sell $150,000 in one week and on some single days we will sell over $40,000. Look at the pictures that were taken today. Each picture has a date that was inserted by the camera clock. These pictures were taken by only one plumbing truck crew and we have more similar pictures that were taken by two other crews. For one day, I think we found 5 houses that were flooded or they had at least some type of leak in a pipe.

Big question that is simple to answer. Did we charge these customers $49 to correct their problems? Did we rip the customer off if we charged them more than $49.

We close 95% of the sales we attempt to close. How much did we make today? You figure in out for yourself because all out our prices are posted on our web site. Don't forget to add removing the sewer waste. We charge $1800 to $4200 to remove sewer water.

This is the small picture. You are not ripping people off when we sell them things they need. You need to have a market niche. You need to bee organized. You need tools for selling. You need to have a unique position that your competition can't beat. You have to target the market you want so that you can get the type of customers and the types of jobs you want. You must remain honest and do what you say you are going to do or you will get buried in your own garbage.

I will put the remaining software files on the my web site in a few days. I have programs with templates for writing contracts, a telephone directory, accounts receivable, and a few more.

I have to run. Today is my birthday and I am living proof that not every plumber breaks his back or dies before 58. Every day I am thankful just to be here. Life is short from my point of view, I have two young kids and want to make sure they are well-set when I leave. This is a very cruel world with the taxes we must pay when we leave. You need to make twice as much as you want to survive taxes and other problems. I say this because many plumbers are satisfied just getting by. Then, something happens and they don't have enough. I recommend that if you are going to work and can make a larger profit, without ripping people, then do so.

Leonard

[DuckButter]

Hi Leonard, welcome to the forum.
Let's start fresh, step off the pulpit, acknowledge a few peers and get to know us.
Granted there was a bit of nitpicking at your openly stating prices, but if it works for you...there is no question we (I at least) can learn something from you...I definitely respect the fact that you've been in biz successfully since I was the age of 3 (1970?)...you don't need to inundate us with a lengthy diatribe on how to become successful, you don't need to earn accolades here, your time in the trade does that for you.
Save the sales pitch for your customers, be a plumber here, crack a few dumb jokes and join the boys as we pick eachother to pieces and fall over in our chairs laughing at it all.
I for one welcome you...as long as you keep it real, I'm all ears on any tips, advice or experience you might be kind enough to part with, as long as you can at least toss the occasional synical wisecrack at me from time to time.

[gear junkie]

I talked to Leonard on the phone today and I believe that he wants to legimately help fellow plumbers. I had a friend who's a legitimate hacker take a look at his software and there doesn't seem to be anything dangerous about his software. He just has a different view of things. Talking to him, it seems Leonard started as a businessman and then became a plumber when it was the other way around for most of us(correct me if I'm wrong).

Do not take this as an endorsement, do your own research into his programs and come to your own conclusions. I just wanted to post the good or bad that I found. I will say that for being a salesman, I don't think you (Leonard) introduced yourself the best way(hey I'm a new guy, here's free stuff to download:lol:). Maybe easing into introductions, let us get to know kinda thing might have warmed your welcome. BTW Happy Birthday.

[bestline3]

I apologize. You are right.

I am a crazy person on a mad mission and never liked to chat.

Your chatting and comradery is really great. I enjoy reading the joking around and family things.

You are absolutey right. My posts are not social. From now on, I am not going to post information directly to the forum. I will send all information to my web site and send the forum a post when the information is available. Then, only the contractors, who want new ideas, will need to sort through the bull.

I love to argue. My lengthy posts were to clarify why we charge $49 and show you that you can make tons of money without being a rip-off. I believe I was called that at least 4 times or more. I think one member said he was going to tell everyone in the community how Bestline does business. While insulted, I hope he does tell people the truth. The IP address I am currently using is still banned by the forum. How does that make me feel? Should I write a few nice words or elaborate on the fact that we are not a rip-off for charging $49.

Incidentally, if you are not aware, I get around the banned IP address by using a program called Anonymizer. This program sends out a fake IP address. Nobody has the right to know your IP address anyway and you can surf anything and nobody can find you by the IP address.

You are welcome to camp at my place any time and have a few beers. City Girl is gone for the next two weeks so I'm kicking-back. Hell, for all you know, she may be my boss. I better get to work before I get caught on the forum.

Again, I apologize.

Leonard

[Devine Plumbing]

Things are a little on edge here. Welcome to the forum, LOL!!

[JCsPlumbing]

Fair. Very fair. We all might learn something from you. May not elect to use your system, but might learn enough to add to our own.

And if you elect to stay around, I'm sure you can learn something from others here. Not me of course :D.

You might then elect to add what you learn to your system.

J.C.

[spodelee]

TRAINING ON HOW TO MARKET AND SELL

This is a link to a lot of free software and other things. It is virus free because I made it. Try the PowerPoint program that teaches the plumbing code.

http://www.box.net/shared/i3tbsnzc4o

Why would we drain cleaning for $49.
How do you, honestly, turn a $49 job into thousands of dollars.

To believe what I am going to tell you, it is important that you download
the pictures in the folder named 'Pictures 063008.

Make it clear that we never charge a penny more that $49 and if we can't clean the drain we will not charge one penny.

The first part of the answer is this. Ninety-nine percent (99%) of our advertising mentions only drain cleaning. For some mysterious reason a very large percentage of our business is not drain cleaning.

After customers see our low drain cleaning prices, for 35 years, the customer would have to assume that we do other types of plumbing. I hate to install water heaters and we installed 3 water heaters today for $1200 each. These customers called, specifically for a new water heater, and we quoted the price over the phone. No ripping of.

You must look at the pictures to understand this part. On an average day we sell about $15,000. When things are hot we can sell $150,000 in one week and on some single days we will sell over $40,000. Look at the pictures that were taken today. Each picture has a date that was inserted by the camera clock. These pictures were taken by only one plumbing truck crew and we have more similar pictures that were taken by two other crews. For one day, I think we found 5 houses that were flooded or they had at least some type of leak in a pipe.

Big question that is simple to answer. Did we charge these customers $49 to correct their problems? Did we rip the customer off if we charged them more than $49.

We close 95% of the sales we attempt to close. How much did we make today? You figure in out for yourself because all out our prices are posted on our web site. Don't forget to add removing the sewer waste. We charge $1800 to $4200 to remove sewer water.

This is the small picture. You are not ripping people off when we sell them things they need. You need to have a market niche. You need to bee organized. You need tools for selling. You need to have a unique position that your competition can't beat. You have to target the market you want so that you can get the type of customers and the types of jobs you want. You must remain honest and do what you say you are going to do or you will get buried in your own garbage.

I will put the remaining software files on the my web site in a few days. I have programs with templates for writing contracts, a telephone directory, accounts receivable, and a few more.

I have to run. Today is my birthday and I am living proof that not every plumber breaks his back or dies before 58. Every day I am thankful just to be here. Life is short from my point of view, I have two young kids and want to make sure they are well-set when I leave. This is a very cruel world with the taxes we must pay when we leave. You need to make twice as much as you want to survive taxes and other problems. I say this because many plumbers are satisfied just getting by. Then, something happens and they don't have enough. I recommend that if you are going to work and can make a larger profit, without ripping people, then do so.

Leonard

My apologies to Leonard and to the Forum for writing such an inflammatory post. While I appreciate Leonard's reported sales capability, I disagree to my very core with Leonard's business philosophy. Nonetheless, I regretted the post from the minute I hit submit... we need a delete button. You will not see another post like that from me.

[bestline3]

Do you people ever sleep? Posting after midnight.

Heres something different and fun. Does anyone like to shoot guns and blow things up.

We go to Whiskeye Pete's on the California Nevada state line every few weeks and do a little shooting and blowing things up is the desert.

We buy a legal powder at a place called tannerite com. I left out the period so as not to be banned for Suspected Spamming. Check the site out for yourself to see what this powder does.

It has the same reaction as dynamite. It takes oxygen out of the air but you cannot tell from the explostion. It comes in pint size bottles and you have to mix a teaspoon of black chemical with the white powder. Even when mixed, the concoction is, supposedly, 100% safe from explostion. The only way you can cause the chemical to explode is by firing a bullet that is 23 caliber or higher at the plastic container. I am fairy sure that a shot from a pistol will not cause an explosion.

Anyway, this stuff is 100% legal, I think in all states and the bang and damage is creates is awesome. One pint blew the roof off an old building and a concrete well fell over at the same time.

Not crazy. Same as fireworks, but more awesome, and more of a fire retardant that a fire starter.

For some, who will be happy, I will 100% stop posting on this forum by july 15th. No, I'm not going to jail. On the weekend, starting July 25th, we will be at the California state line on Interstate 15. We will be shooting, blowing things up, riding ATV's gambling, eating, swimming, and some quality time in the hotel room (you are not included), but, if you are in the area you are welcome to join in other activities. We also have colored smoke bombs, and we do some hiking to old mines. We usually bring 5 large quads, one smal 90 quad, and a small child-size 70 dirt bike.

The temperature is about 117 degrees. We bring more than enough food, equipment, guns (no the 'catch' is not to shoot you), and explosives. This is a very beautiful and quiet place. This is exactly 48 miles south of Las Vegas. If you fly in we can pick you up at the airport or you can take a shuttle to Whiskey Petes.

I usually travel with about 6 to eight other people so you won't be stuck alone with me and I promise not to talk about business.

If you can't make it in July we go there at least once every month. You can let me know later.

Leonard

[PLUMBER RICK]

mark, this is right up your alley:D

now if you really want to impress leonard, have your son do a fly by with the apache helicopter.

quads, guns, and explosives:scratchhead: only in vegas, or texas:rolleyes:

mark, i'll cover the gardena end, you cover the vegas side;)

rick.

what happens in vegas, stays in vegas. guess no report.

[ToUtahNow]

mark, this is right up your alley:D

now if you really want to impress leonard, have your son do a fly by with the apache helicopter.

quads, guns, and explosives:scratchhead: only in vegas, or texas:rolleyes:

mark, i'll cover the gardena end, you cover the vegas side;)

rick.

what happens in vegas, stays in vegas. guess no report.

You're right the flight from Fort Irwin to Whiskey Pete's is probably only half an hour. I will have to watch for smoke clouds as I drive by Whiskey Pete's each week to see if the explosions are visible from the 15. Of course I think I am done in Las Vegas on the 11th than I have two weeks in Reno so I will miss all of the excitement. Stay safe Leonard.

Mark

[bestline3]

My Miserable Life - Why am I the way I am?


My dad was a 4-1/2 foot unemployed whiskey drinking sex crazy bum who stood home all day. He was wicked, mean, and I had to be in bed every day by 6 pm.

One day, when in the 3rd grade, we had to stand in front of the class and tell what our parents.Being embarrassed, I told the class that my father was tall, dark, and handsome man. The teacher smiled and my classmates oohhhed and aaahhhed. I continued and told the class that my dad was strong like Hercules and he was so tough he even ate glass and light bulbs.

The classroom started laughing and boohhhing, but for some reason the teacher was still smiling. Was pity? The teacher asked me to tell the truth I refused to change my story because I was positive that my dad really ate glass light bulbs.

The teacher called my dad on the phone and they talked for a long time. Then, the teacher told me she was taking me home. When I got home I was really scared. I could not hear what they were saying and all of a sudden my dad got mean and told me to get to bed.

I was laying in bed, heard a few doors open,close, and next thing I heard was, "turn out the light and I will eat it."

[DuckButter]

I got that.
I'm sure half the forum is scratching their heads, but I got it.
sick, sick, sick.