Buying a laptop-need help [Archive] - RIDGID Plumbing Forum, Woodworking Forum, Power Tool Forum

gear junkie

05-27-2008, 10:20 PM

This is the criteria I was looking for, need lots of help;

1. Must be somewhat durable. I'm going to a very sandy place and will store it in a pelican case but it's still going to get dirty.

2. will not play video games on it, probably watch some movies:wink:, have pictures on it

3. plan carrying in the truck for use on work related items(invoices). stored in a pelican case. Combined weight of a regular bag, laptop and essential stuff I don't know about can't weigh more than 15 lbs.

4. want to spend around 500

5. battery life must be good, might not be around a power point for awhile. Do generators hurt laptops?

6. Have no experience about wireless internet so any help here would be appreciated.

Let me know of any companies to stay from also as well as good features I need and those I don't. Should I buy online or at a store? Have until Sep to buy it so I can't wait for thanksgiving sales. Thanks.

MrsSeatDown

05-27-2008, 10:25 PM

Dell sells refurbished laptops on their website-they are great!

There will be big sales again over 4th of July. Check out the ads in the Sunday paper-ours have the computer sales in the sports section. (I also posted this in your blog earlier)

As far as wireless, we use SBC. When we are out we just use unencrypted wireless connections (there are lots more than you would think) or if we know the person get their security code for encrypted connections.

westcoastplumber

05-27-2008, 10:31 PM

I wouldn't reccommend refurbished. At least HP SUCK!!!

All laptops out there have wireless now.

The cheapest laptops now are $499

I like sony and dell but they are pricy. But the BEST!!!

The pricy ones are the best.

Dell inspiron are $499 on their website.
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/inspnnb_1525?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

Unsecured connection means you can connect if their signal is good.

Secured connection means you need the key or a passphrase for it.

In our area it is tought but we connect through our desktop wirelessly.

If you park in front of target you will get a connection for FREE.

mrs.wc

gear junkie

05-27-2008, 10:39 PM

If you park in front of target you will get a connection for FREE.

mrs.wc
can i do this? Is this legal?

MrsSeatDown

05-27-2008, 10:41 PM

I have bought 2 refurbished dells directly from dell. Each one lasted 10 years, and I am hard on them. I use to drag them everywhere and throw my backpack down. You really can't ask for more.

You can use any unencrypted wireless connection for free.

Frankiarmz

05-27-2008, 10:48 PM

Good suggestions as far as Dell and other. Understand that battery run time will only be two or three hours at best before you will need to recharge. Regarding the generator and safety, there are so many variables such as surge and other things. Maybe some of tech heads out there will join in? Charging with the computer off may be safer than keeping it on while running off a generator? Wireless means you still need to be close to a wireless internet signal and be set up to access it. If you are buying a laptop with a DVD player I suggest you invest in an inexpensive DVD/VHS recorder that you can hook up to cable. You can record movies off of cable or borrow some movies on VHS from the library and if they are not copyright protected transfer them to DVDs. You can fit three, two hour movies on one disc for about ten cents!
One more suggestion about power, you might get away with a small inverter that you can plug into a 12volt power source. Something strong enough to run your laptop and charge it's battery might not weigh very much. Check it out.

PLUMBER RICK

05-27-2008, 10:49 PM

the panasonic tuff books are pretty much indestructible.

problem is you need to up your offer. $3000.

the toshiba's are the next best, reliable units.

will the military help you out on this?

a 12 volt inverter seems to work fine for me.

rick.

cpw

05-27-2008, 10:52 PM

This is the criteria I was looking for, need lots of help;

1. Must be somewhat durable. I'm going to a very sandy place and will store it in a pelican case but it's still going to get dirty.

They make ruggedized ones, but they are way more than you want to spend unfortunately. The thing you'll probably have to worry about most with the sand is the keyboard. I don't know off the top of my head, but I do think some models have fewer ports on the side, you may want to look at that in a positive light since it is fewer places for the sand to get in.

2. will not play video games on it, probably watch some movies:wink:, have pictures on it
Anything new or refurb should work as long as you get a DVD drive. Most laptops are powerful enough now that unless it is video games you won't have problems. If you have a choice between CPU (Ghz) and Memory for the price, go with the memory. The memory can prevent you from having to access the hard disk, which is the slowest component (because it physically moves)

3. plan carrying in the truck for use on work related items(invoices). stored in a pelican case. Combined weight of a regular bag, laptop and essential stuff I don't know about can't weigh more than 15 lbs.
A beast of a laptop shouldn't weigh more than 8 lbs. Don't know about the case though.

4. want to spend around 500

I'll admit that I haven't bought one in eight years, so I don't know how much they cost anymore.

5. battery life must be good, might not be around a power point for awhile. Do generators hurt laptops?

Depending on the brand you may be able to get bigger batteries. In Thinkpads you can replace the DVD drive with a spare battery. I don't think a generator would hurt it, because the transformer is converting whatever comes off the line to DC and at least on some you charge the battery and run off of that. You can get 12V vehicle adapters if you've got a truck to hook it from.

6. Have no experience about wireless internet so any help here would be appreciated.

If you are looking for WiFi (personal/corporate) networks, you should be safe with anything that says 802.11b or 802.11g. I don't know about any cellular type wireless though.

Let me know of any companies to stay from also as well as good features I need and those I don't. Should I buy online or at a store? Have until Sep to buy it so I can't wait for thanksgiving sales. Thanks.
The last laptop I bought was a Dell, and it did break a few times; but their in-home service plan is very good. After the last repair (same component) I complained and they sent me a refurb machine that was close (but better) than the original. That one lasted for about 4 years. Now I have a Thinkpad from work. The IBM branded ones are top notch (but pricey). The newer Lenovo ones aren't as good as the older IBM ones. I've had friends who have had very good luck with the big HP laptops, but I don't think those would be the machine for you (I would go with a smaller one for cost and luggability).

Also factor in the cost of software that you may need to run it. This could be almost as much as the hardware now.

westcoastplumber

05-27-2008, 10:53 PM

This is our second toshiba. Bought it brand new a year ago and last week we had to buy new ac adapter. The battery wasn;t charging....And it is the first laptop we never put any junk on, never hit it or spilled anything on it..previous toshiba we had broke after 2-3 years...the screen broke..the little screws didnt hold it

cpw

05-27-2008, 10:55 PM

JCsPlumbing

05-27-2008, 10:55 PM

cpw

05-27-2008, 11:03 PM

The weak point is $500.00 for a tough laptop. Panasonics Toughbook is pricey. Durabook. Similar specs. but around $1500.00 if I recall.

I'd ask CPW. We know more about plumbing. He knows computers.

J.C.
JC,

I think you're right. Nothing else he asked for is a problem, but ruggedized anything costs way more because of the smaller market. If it is available in his state Dell offers an accident "insurance" policy along with the warranty. That might be cheaper than buying something that will last. CompUSA also had a replacement plan like that, you give them the old one, they give you a new one no questions asked (only works once though).

Charles

ToUtahNow

05-27-2008, 11:26 PM

JC,

I think you're right. Nothing else he asked for is a problem, but ruggedized anything costs way more because of the smaller market. If it is available in his state Dell offers an accident "insurance" policy along with the warranty. That might be cheaper than buying something that will last. CompUSA also had a replacement plan like that, you give them the old one, they give you a new one no questions asked (only works once though).

Charles

Dell's accident insurance is awesome when you need it. After I broke my leg I spent 6-months in a hospital bed. One day with my Wi-Fi card sticking out the side of my laptop I lost my grip and it fell to the floor. The card snapped in half which also broke the mother board. Within a few days Dell was at my house with a new mother board and got me back in business. A few months after that they came back and replaced my screen when something else happened.

However, if I read Ben's post correctly he may be headed to the sand box and I know Dell doesn't not make house calls there.

Mark

cpw

05-27-2008, 11:34 PM

However, if I read Ben's post correctly he may be headed to the sand box and I know Dell doesn't not make house calls there.
I was thinking more job site muck, but if it is the sandbox he would be better off asking some of the guys coming back which ones last and which ones don't than us.

Another thing that I thought of was that he might want to get a used one if it is going to take so much abuse. No warranty, but if there is someone he knows who wants to upgrade getting an old one could work out pretty well. For photos and the Internet you really don't need much power. To make sure that you could play videos on an older machine, I would just try playing a DVD if that worked I wouldn't worry about 'net video.

ToUtahNow

05-28-2008, 12:09 AM

My oldest son has done one tour in Kosovo and two full tours in Iraq plus a bunch of mini deployments to Iraq to reinforce strategies. He carries an off the shelf Dell laptop. If I were Ben I would probably buy an entry level Dell and plan to upgrade in a couple of years. Josh has a blog entry which includes a site which is really good for watching for Dell deals.

Mark

MrsSeatDown

05-28-2008, 01:03 AM

Dell's accident insurance is awesome when you need it. After I broke my leg I spent 6-months in a hospital bed. One day with my Wi-Fi card sticking out the side of my laptop I lost my grip and it fell to the floor. The card snapped in half which also broke the mother board. Within a few days Dell was at my house with a new mother board and got me back in business. A few months after that they came back and replaced my screen when something else happened.

However, if I read Ben's post correctly he may be headed to the sand box and I know Dell doesn't not make house calls there.

Mark

I left mine on the dining room table plugged in. My dog jumped up on the table to get something when she jumped off so did my computer:eek: My motherboard broke and there were pretty lines on the screen. They replaced it no problem! Not many places stand behind their products even in spite of accidents and abuse.

gear junkie

05-28-2008, 08:07 AM

Now you've been mentioning that you've gotten a laptop to last 4-5 years which is fine by me but what about the data on it? How do I keep from losing that?

cpw

05-28-2008, 08:13 AM

Now you've been mentioning that you've gotten a laptop to last 4-5 years which is fine by me but what about the data on it? How do I keep from losing that?
Backups. That is the only way. Most of us are pretty bad about that.

The only time you should lose the data is if you lose the hard disk. If you have a CD burner you can make backups of the important data. Backing up applications is a lost cause at this point, you just need to save the original CDs.

Unfortunately that is one of the components most likely to fail (because it has moving parts). Thinkpads now have a solid state disk option (flash memory, no moving parts), but they are very spendy.

gear junkie

05-28-2008, 08:18 AM

what about those big external hard drives?

cpw

05-28-2008, 08:33 AM

what about those big external hard drives?
Those work to, but are no more reliable than the internal hard disk. Also, the CD burner should just come with your laptop, the external hard disk is extra $$ (but no media costs after you buy it).

VASandy

05-28-2008, 10:01 AM

It's a balancing act. We all want the "ruggedized" version, but none of us want (or can justify) the extra $2000-3000 they cost. You have to understand the environment it'll be in. If you plan on pulling the laptop out of the box outside in the middle of the desert you're going to want the most rugged thing you can get. Mostly, though, you'd be in a tent or vehicle when using your laptop. With those requirements, a little maintenance and common sense will save you the 2grand. If you think there's sand inside, turn it off and blow the crud out with some canned air. Sand is sharp, abrasive, and can sometimes cause short circuits, though not very readily. Sand is silicon, which is what the chips are primarily made of. The problem is really the repeated abrasion of sand grains on the delicate circuit traces. Get the stuff out before it has a chance to scratch the boards.

On the ports, sand can get in there and cause a physical block that keeps connectors from making contact. Usually you can blow that out with canned air. Sometimes you have to use what we call Percussive Maintenance. This means to turn off the laptop, unplug EVERYTHING, turn it so the offending port is pointed down and gently whack the machine in the area of the port connectors. It works. It's NOT recommended.

The worst thing for a laptop (or any electronic device) is being around salt water and sand. As around the Atlantic or Pacific coast. The sand causes abrasions and the salt in the air will cause oxidation. Just being around sand itself isn't necessarily as bad as one would think. Sand isn't good for the device, but as long as you're somewhat careful and keep as much out as possible, you should be ok.

Personally, I prefer Toshiba. Dell would be 2nd place. Sony's are cool and all, but I think you pay too much for the name. The cool factor gets lost about the second time you have to return it for service. The Sony's are light, though. If that's a factor, keep them in mind.

Wireless access is generally available in towns where people don't think they need to secure the connections, or don't know they need to. Most laptops will have wireless built in, and will have software that will show you the connections that are available and if they're locked or not. If it's not locked, chances are you can use it and they won't know about it. Keep in mind that those connections are not secured so whatever data you're passing is done in the clear and anyone can read it (with a very minimal amount of hardware and freely available software). Don't use those connections for doing your banking!! There has been some controversy from some coffee shop type places that provide free wireless for customers. At least one place tried to prosecute someone for just using the connection from outside the shop. If it's that kind of place and you have time, just go buy a cup of coffee or something and use the wireless all you want.

Whatever you decide, get a few cans of air. Don't use a compressor blower to clean it out. The canned air is clean, but the blower from a compressor may not be. You don't want to blow oil or contaminants into the system. The advantage of the canned air in the desert is that if you turn it upside down and blow a little air, the can gets really cold! It can get scary cold, as a matter of fact. Enough so that you could get your skin stuck to it if you're not careful.

For backup, I do use an external HD. It's a risk, however. The drive in the external box can fail just as easily as the drive in the laptop/desktop. However, since the external drive has fewer spinup-spindown and read-write cycles, it's less likely to fail as soon as the ones in the computer itself. Again, it's a balancing act. I'm hopeful the drive in the external box has a better MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) than the drive in my computer. Or at least that the lesser use of the external drive means it will be working when my computer drive fails. I guess we'll see!! It's easier for me to backup to the external device than to keep swapping disks into the DVD-writer. I've got more data on the two drives in my computer than a DVD will hold. I made a conscious decision to use an external hard drive. I know the consequences of making the wrong decision means my data is gone. I also keep copies of my personal documents and emails on at least 1 other location. The chances of all 3 devices failing at the same time are slim. This means there is a chance, though. It's just a chance I choose to take.

Woussko

05-28-2008, 10:31 AM

To GearJunkie for starting this thread and to all that responded, a big THANK YOU. I've been looking for one myself. I just found this thread and will be reading it over.

Sandy, Please make up copies of any critical data in more than just one format and the stuff you burn to CDs or DVDs, put in your bank safe deposit box. I was super thankful I did just that the other day with a document (was for fun) that required over 500 hours of my time. I screwed up and deleted it from all magnetic storage versions thinking I had deleted the draft. Well, I deleted the good version.:eek: Thankfully I had burned a CD with all versions and when at the bank put that in the safe deposit box. Normally I don't bother, but something that would really be a pain to loose is IMO well worth taking extra time to backup in several ways. As for an external hard drive I really think everyone should have one. I want to get one where I can swap the actual hard drive and it needs to be a full size drive that I can install in a tower or desktop. IDE-ATA and formatted NTSF. That way I can have it as the second drive here. Depending on file size and the total amount of backup data, I get along with a good CD-R, CD-RW drive. DVD drives are nice, but do price them out. If you don't need one, you might want to put the $$$ into more RAM memory. That's especially true if you ever plan to upgrade over time to Windows Vista. You really want 2 GB or more memory. I have this in good faith from several techs that went through the upgrade cussing. I plan to keep Windows XP Professional for some time.

Back to external hard drives: Anymore a 40 GB IDE-ATA 3-1/2" desktop drive (replacement) comes pretty cheap. Having several for file backup is just great. It's also good to have a file over-writer program that will over-wright files, folders/directories or the whole drive. Do use such with care.

Good lucking finding a nice one, GearJunkie. You might check around for a local company that owns good laptop PCs but wants newer ones with more fancy stuff.

Velosapien

05-28-2008, 10:35 AM

Personally, I prefer Toshiba. Dell would be 2nd place. Sony's are cool and all, but I think you pay too much for the name. The cool factor gets lost about the second time you have to return it for service. The Sony's are light, though. If that's a factor, keep them in mind.

I agree on Sony. There's nothing particularly special about them other than the name. Most people I know who've had them never go back since they find they can usually get more for less with other brands.

As far as quality, brand loyalty is really something that doesn't pay off with laptops. There is not any significant difference in quality from one manufacturer to the next. Besides, most of the important stuff inside comes from the same places. IBM Thinkpads used to be the gold standard in durability since they were intended as business laptops which means they will be used by people who don't actually own them so they don't take care of them. They were usually built with much better metal hinges and rugged casings. Once Lenovo bought them they have had some drop in quality.

For data reliability there are three words. Backup, backup, and backup. DVD's are the cheapest way but with monster sized harddrives now they are getting impractically small. I've also had a lot of burned DVD's that don't even work after a year. The media is not always very reliable long term. An external hard drive would make things a lot easier and faster. It can fail as well of course but the odds both the laptop drive and external drive will fail at the same time are quite small. Another option is drive mirroring (known as RAID 1). Two hard drives write data simultaneously. If one fails the second kicks right in and no data is lost. This is rare to be doable on a laptop but I noticed some new HP's are bringing the option of dual internal hard drives in mirrored configurations. The problem of course is price. This will run at least double your budget.

MrsSeatDown

05-28-2008, 10:35 AM

It just depends. We do not have a desktop. Neither one of us like to sit at a desk to be on the computer.

I never did (or my brothers) use to make my parents nuts! We all had our own rooms with desks and we would fight over sections of the dining room table or couch.:p

I like to sit on the floor, couch, and bed while I type. I won't mention where Rick uses his:D

Rick has big hands and doesn't have problems with the laptop being too small. I don't think he even notices anymore.

Ok Woussko-this was for you. But by the time I typed this you deleted most of your original post.

Woussko

05-28-2008, 10:52 AM

Joey, Please look again. I made a mess, deleted it and tried to fix it up. I think it needs more work but I'm leaving it up for now.

I really don't know if I could get used to a laptop without a real mouse, full size keyboard with the number keys to the right and a nice big high quality monitor like I can have with the desktop setup. Mostly I'm an old fart and I like things that just feel and seem right. If someone has always worked on a laptop, my bet is if a 19" LCD monitor were connected to it, they would be blown away the first time. A friend has a nice laptop and when I showed him what it could become by connecting up goodies at home he was like WOW. "A portable desktop setup." Too bad all the fun goodies cost good $$$.

I think for field work, it's best to do lots of backing up of files, destroy any critical ones on the hard drive you no longer need for security reasons (Not delete them but use a program that writes several times over them) and then just spend what you can for it. Think of a live and learn and then upgrade. If you destroy a $500-$1000 laptop that's not like if it were a really good one of $2500 plus. Yes, it hurts but just not as much.

Note: Stay away from Gateway as they have been taken over and shipping lead time is running into months anymore for some models and several weeks at best. They are NOT the old company they used to be. :-(

cpw

05-28-2008, 12:02 PM

I really don't know if I could get used to a laptop without a real mouse, full size keyboard with the number keys to the right and a nice big high quality monitor like I can have with the desktop setup. Mostly I'm an old fart and I like things that just feel and seem right. If someone has always worked on a laptop, my bet is if a 19" LCD monitor were connected to it, they would be blown away the first time. A friend has a nice laptop and when I showed him what it could become by connecting up goodies at home he was like WOW. "A portable desktop setup." Too bad all the fun goodies cost good $$$.
I always have two docking stations, one for work one for home. Each one has a Microsoft natural split keyboard (without it my wrists would hurt after a while), and a Microsoft wheel mouse. At home I have a 19" CRT that is 10 years old, and at work I have a 19" LCD. I think that the small screens and less ergonomic keyboards are just not worth it since you can spend money to get better keyboards and monitors, but you can't spend money to get new eyes or wrists.

PlumbingSkool

05-28-2008, 12:10 PM

This is the criteria I was looking for, need lots of help;

4. want to spend around 500

$500 is no where near enough for a decent laptop that will be " in date" for 2 years ,

Listen to YOUR own "signature" and spend at least $800 - $1200

I have owned many laptops in the last 5 years , and can make some great recommendations on some if you are willing to spend more,

Oh your signature says "Buy nice not twice "

Listen to that for sure when it comes to computers ,

BTW - DON'T buy a dell laptop for starters , There batteries suck and burn out after a year,

Just look at the reviews on Dells website.

Just to start I would suggest

Windows based = HP , Toshiba , Compaq

Mac = Mac

gear junkie

05-28-2008, 02:00 PM

$500 is no where near enough for a decent laptop that will be " in date" for 2 years ,

Listen to YOUR own "signature" and spend at least $800 - $1200

I have owned many laptops in the last 5 years , and can make some great recommendations on some if you are willing to spend more,

Oh your signature says "Buy nice not twice "

I don't think I max out my computer's capability as much as you do. I have a dell desktop at home that is 512 meg/40 g hard drive and it's 5 years old. Runs fine no problems and haven't maxed it out yet.

Really appreciate everyone's comments. I learned something new from every post. Thanks alot. This is what the plan is-tell me if I'm thrown off; I was going to get a new dell 2g(only cost 25 more to go up to 2g) 160 g laptop for 500. I was going to wait till 4th of july. The difference between a new and refurbished computer was only 75, not enough not to buy new. Dell's refurbished do come with a 3 year warranty.

Sandy brought up the point about dust control and rick mentioned in the past about keyboard covers, do they make one for labtops? I'm just going to be in a dusty tent or vehicle. I'm not using the computer during a sandstorm.

The wireless thing. If I use wireless internet, could someone access my computer files while I'm connected? What dictates how fast the computer is?

DSurette

05-28-2008, 02:08 PM

Sorry to add another factor to consider, but most new laptops will come with Vista installed. If you have programs that you might want to install or anything that requires drivers, you should check to see if they are Vista compatable. I do believe that there are still some XP laptops available. I think Tiger Direct had some in their last catalog.

Frankiarmz

05-28-2008, 02:19 PM

PlumbingSkool

05-28-2008, 02:53 PM

First a comment to CPW, if you're reading I think you have been a welcome member of this community and you're input here has been very helpful. I also have a question regarding Vista. Is it difficult to switch from the vista operating system to windows xp, and what would be the down side? I am use to XP and with the exception of ordering XP installed by Dell I'm kind of stuck with vista. Thanks.

The problem with "downgrading" to XP from Vista is finding all the right "drivers"

Some companies of the computers offer the drivers, BUT for some new models , you will have many issues as the drivers for the components may not be available because they were made for the vista system,

There really is no reason to downgrade in my opinion.

I am a web developer as well as a plumber and I switched to Vista (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista) without a hitch , no software issues at all

In fact Wikipedia has a growing list of compatible software (http://www.iexbeta.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_Vista_Software_Compatibility_List) ( Most stuff works )

Here is that list of compatible software with vista

Hope that helps !

cpw

05-28-2008, 02:57 PM

First a comment to CPW, if you're reading I think you have been a welcome member of this community and you're input here has been very helpful. I also have a question regarding Vista. Is it difficult to switch from the vista operating system to windows xp, and what would be the down side? I am use to XP and with the exception of ordering XP installed by Dell I'm kind of stuck with vista. Thanks.
I really don't know. I have never had a Vista installed Laptop. My work laptop is always going to be the Professional version of whatever, and I didn't install Windows on my last personal laptop.

From what I have heard the real problem isn't what you are used to or not used to, it is that if you upgrade an old machine the bells and whistles will make it slow. Also if you have older software that you install beyond what the base machines comes with it might not work.

VASandy

05-28-2008, 03:03 PM

The wireless thing. If I use wireless internet, could someone access my computer files while I'm connected? What dictates how fast the computer is?
-When using public wireless (no key, no encryption), YES they can see what you send. They could connect to your laptop and read files stored there. If your laptop must stay relatively secure, do not ever use a public wi-fi center.
-Speed of the computer is relative to the many components found inside. The CPU is always listed as most important. I don't agree. The amount of RAM you have will make a huge difference in how fast the thing feels. More RAM, more better! Then the CPU speed will make a difference, then the speed of the hard drive. For online access, the best speed is found through FIOS, then cable, then DSL, then Wi-Fi, then cell card wireless. In that order.

Sorry to add another factor to consider, but most new laptops will come with Vista installed. If you have programs that you might want to install or anything that requires drivers, you should check to see if they are Vista compatable. I do believe that there are still some XP laptops available. I think Tiger Direct had some in their last catalog.
If you purchase a computer without an OS, you can purchase Windows XP separately. Or you can find a brand that offers XP. As you mentioned, TigerDirect does have some that will come with Windows XP. Make sure it's XP Pro and not Home!

First a comment to CPW, if you're reading I think you have been a welcome member of this community and you're input here has been very helpful. I also have a question regarding Vista. Is it difficult to switch from the vista operating system to windows xp, and what would be the down side? I am use to XP and with the exception of ordering XP installed by Dell I'm kind of stuck with vista. Thanks.
-Switch from Vista to XP?? To do that, you'll have to check and see if the manufacturer will support XP. Some of the new HP's will not allow you to install XP on the machine. There's an actual chip-based code that will not allow the XP install to complete. It's annoying as all get-out, and they do not advertise that fact. If it's a generic brand of computer, chances are you can install whatever you want on it. You'll have to provide a purchased copy of XP. Having Vista on your computer does not mean you have a license to install XP.
-Vista is a weird OS and some computers run it better than others. I've seen HP's that work really well on Vista and some brand new Dell's that are slower than molasses in winter with Vista. A lot of it is how Vista is installed and what options are turned on. Vista is a memory HOG and will want to do LOTS of things all at the same time, before you even load an application! Even MS exec's have been known to dislike Vista. I'm hopeful that in a year or so MS will figure out what the problems with the OS are and fix them. If you have Vista now and it works, good deal! If you're like many others and the OS is the slowest thing since Timex-Sinclair, then it's time to think about changing out to XP.

cpw

05-28-2008, 03:04 PM

I don't think I max out my computer's capability as much as you do. I have a dell desktop at home that is 512 meg/40 g hard drive and it's 5 years old. Runs fine no problems and haven't maxed it out yet.
If you haven't maxed it out, why are you looking to upgrade? Not trying to say not to; just pointing out that computers have gotten so fast that just internet browsing and word processsing doesn't tax even older machines (as long as you don't upgrade everything to the latest bloated software).

The wireless thing. If I use wireless internet, could someone access my computer files while I'm connected? What dictates how fast the computer is?
The answer should be no. Unless you share the files on purpose or get spyware installed. Of course, if there are bugs in Windows, then the answer becomes yes until there is a patch.

Also, I wouldn't worry about banking over wireless any more than wired. Just make sure that the website is SSL enabled (has https://www.bank.com instead of http://www.bank.com).

As far as what dictates how fast the computer is, there is no clear cut answer. For any given task you'll be limited by the CPU, memory, or disk; and different tasks will have different limitations.

VASandy

05-28-2008, 03:14 PM

Frankiarmz

05-28-2008, 03:17 PM

-When using public wireless (no key, no encryption), YES they can see what you send. They could connect to your laptop and read files stored there. If your laptop must stay relatively secure, do not ever use a public wi-fi center.
-Speed of the computer is relative to the many components found inside. The CPU is always listed as most important. I don't agree. The amount of RAM you have will make a huge difference in how fast the thing feels. More RAM, more better! Then the CPU speed will make a difference, then the speed of the hard drive. For online access, the best speed is found through FIOS, then cable, then DSL, then Wi-Fi, then cell card wireless. In that order.

If you purchase a computer without an OS, you can purchase Windows XP separately. Or you can find a brand that offers XP. As you mentioned, TigerDirect does have some that will come with Windows XP. Make sure it's XP Pro and not Home!

-Switch from Vista to XP?? To do that, you'll have to check and see if the manufacturer will support XP. Some of the new HP's will not allow you to install XP on the machine. There's an actual chip-based code that will not allow the XP install to complete. It's annoying as all get-out, and they do not advertise that fact. If it's a generic brand of computer, chances are you can install whatever you want on it. You'll have to provide a purchased copy of XP. Having Vista on your computer does not mean you have a license to install XP.
-Vista is a weird OS and some computers run it better than others. I've seen HP's that work really well on Vista and some brand new Dell's that are slower than molasses in winter with Vista. A lot of it is how Vista is installed and what options are turned on. Vista is a memory HOG and will want to do LOTS of things all at the same time, before you even load an application! Even MS exec's have been known to dislike Vista. I'm hopeful that in a year or so MS will figure out what the problems with the OS are and fix them. If you have Vista now and it works, good deal! If you're like many others and the OS is the slowest thing since Timex-Sinclair, then it's time to think about changing out to XP.

Thanks for the helpful info. I'm going to print this out for the future.

cpw

05-28-2008, 03:20 PM

I apologize to CPW for contradicting him. My work in computer security makes me paranoid. I hate using public wi-fi. I wouldn't ever do my banking when on a public connection. I know they run on SSL but I never feel comfortable with it. Even in my small little town, I won't use the local coffee shop wi-fi for anything other than browsing the Internet with my phone. What can I say...I'm paranoid!!
No need to apologize. Life's no fun without room for debate.

The thing is that your cable modem or FiOS or anything else isn't secure at all without end-to-end encryption either. When the Verizon FiOS sales people tried to claim it was more secure than Cable I told them it was a lie, to go away, and pulled the Computer Science Ph.D. out. :)

cpw

05-28-2008, 03:22 PM

If you purchase a computer without an OS, you can purchase Windows XP separately. Or you can find a brand that offers XP. As you mentioned, TigerDirect does have some that will come with Windows XP. Make sure it's XP Pro and not Home!
One problem with that strategy is that the big boys have such volume discounts with MSFT that purchasing an OS separate costs way more.

gear junkie

05-28-2008, 03:56 PM

If you haven't maxed it out, why are you looking to upgrade?
I need a laptop for where I'm going. I currently have a desktop. What's "OS"?

JCsPlumbing

05-28-2008, 04:45 PM

Operating System. One for the plumbers!:D

J.C.

cpw

05-28-2008, 04:51 PM

I need a laptop for where I'm going. I currently have a desktop. What's "OS"?
Makes sense. JCs got the OS question down. For most of us it translates into Windows. For many Internet servers, Tivo (and actually what I generally work with) it is Linux.

JCsPlumbing

05-28-2008, 04:57 PM

Ben. The crux of your needs I think is seeking one that is "tough". I posted earlier on this but should elaborate. There is not a high demand for these laptops and that keeps the price high. I looked for one a couple of years ago and prices haven't changed much last I checked. (Panasonic Toughbook $$$-Durabook$$). I think both can get close to MilSpec. ratings for dust, being dropped, water on keyboard? test etc.

I looked at getting a regular one and a Pelican Case but I know myself well enough that it would still get damaged.

I am by no means as knowledgeable as the computer guys (sometimes I wonder about plumbing too!) but most people don't need the power/speed they think unless they are pushing the computer to multitask or using high graphics & gaming programs.

I'd say look for your basic needs first. If it HAS to be tough spend the bucks for the ones designed for this. Otherwise get the cheapest one you can find that has wireless, dvd, & basic computer capabilities. Put as much memory in either as the budget allows. Don't worry about the rest.

J.C.

Bob D.

05-28-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gear junkie http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=146161#post146161)
This is the criteria I was looking for, need lots of help;

1. Must be somewhat durable. I'm going to a very sandy place and will store it in a pelican case but it's still going to get dirty.

They make ruggedized ones, but they are way more than you want to spend unfortunately. The thing you'll probably have to worry about most with the sand is the keyboard. I don't know off the top of my head, but I do think some models have fewer ports on the side, you may want to look at that in a positive light since it is fewer places for the sand to get in.

I like the Panasonic Toughbooks. We use these at work in the field and they take a beating. If you can swing it get a touchscreen which is nice for not having to drag a mouse along if you don't want to as I find the glidepads to be a PITA.

As far a downgrading to XP Pro from Vista, not a good idea as others have pointed out due to the driver issues. Trying to find a leftover with XP Pro is probably a better bet. I doubt you will find XP for sale stand alone as MS has put the kibosh on that except for some large resellers who are supporting corporate installations with many machines. Most of them will not switch to Vista for another year or more.

NHMaster3015

05-28-2008, 10:19 PM

I bought an Acer 5520 about 8 months ago. Amazing machine. I've gone through a pile of laptops over the years but this one is far and away my favorite. Amd 64x processor nvidia graphics, 1 gb ddr, 200gb hdd, dvd writer all the bells and whistles for a tad under 7 bills.

threecreeks3

05-29-2008, 01:34 AM

I have an Acer travelmate about 3 years old now.Ive taken it traveling a lot in a caselogic foam carrier.I bought my wife a refurb toshiba.Both I bought from tiger direct.The toshiba crashed on the trip taking it to her but I brought it back sent it for covered service an 5 days later had it back working fine.
I read once that you can play any region dvd in an usa laptop but after the 5th region switch it stays locked to playing that region.I've no idea if thats true but if your going out of the country you might be buying dvd's from other regions.I carry a cheapo colby dvd player thats region free with a 7'' screen it runs on any voltage even 12 volts.
Sam

Anthony22580

05-29-2008, 04:11 AM

I've been thinking about getting myself an Acer within the next few months, but haven't decided on a model yet.

gear junkie

05-29-2008, 03:08 PM

This is an email my Dad sent me. I asked him for advice also.

Ben, here's a fine website on buying a laptop: http://reviews.cnet.com/laptop-buying-guide/

These are specs I think are important:

CPU: Intel Core Duo. Careful here, as Intel has a lot of other CPUs that sound similar. Core Duo is in the middle of the Intel pack, and gives good value for its cost.

Memory: 2 GB. More, and you'll probably not see the benefit. Less, and your computer will run frustratingly slowly.

DVD: certainly a reader, maybe a burner, too. CD burner is always part of this, so don't need to worry if CDs are all you'll burn.

Hard drive: the bigger the better, of course, but if there's a DVD burner, not much reason to store your movies and music on the hard drive, so the hard drive can be small. 80 GB should be plenty big enough. Everything else being equal, look for a 7200 rpm hard drive over a 5400 rpm one. Might not have much choice here.

Screen size: I think you'll be happiest with 15.4". That'll make for a heavier laptop to carry, but once you're watching a movie, you'll be glad you went big.

Keyboard: the best keyboards are made by Lenovo. The best keyboards used to be made by IBM, but then IBM sold their entire home computer operation to Lenovo, which is why Lenovo now makes the best keyboards. Dell's keyboards aren't bad.

Wireless: usually built in, which means you must know how to protect your computer so others can't access your files.

Support: I like Dell in this area. Easy to use their website, easy to chat with Tech Support. HP and Compaq have terrible websites/support.

Operating system: not much choice here. If you're getting a new laptop, it will have Vista. On the other hand, XP will be more reliable, run faster, and be easier for techs to troubleshoot.

Extended support (3 yrs): important, I think. Will cost about $250.

Going to Dell's site, you can build a laptop with most of the features above for about $900. That's almost twice what you wanted to spend.

You might consider going to Dell's refurbished site. Also consider buying used if the laptop is about $400. For that amount, it might be worth taking a chance. Have the seller demonstrate that everything works: burns DVDs, surfs the webs quickly via wireless and wired networking, etc. If you buy used, make sure you get all the original software, especially the product ID for Windows. But doubt you'll find a good deal going used. Sellers remember how much they paid, and forget how far prices have fallen since then. Still, keep your eyes open.

Hope this helped.