Smart Car, Stupid Consumers?

[Frankiarmz]

Saw my first "Smart Car" on the road and man it looked small and scary. I don't see how they can justify making and selling this puny excuse for a car to the public? Mile per gallon ratings are 33 city and 40 highway which are lousy considering the size of this thing. Hope better alterantive vehicles are on the way because this will not fix our problems with the exception of tight parking spaces.

[oldslowchevy]

frank i agree, there are a bunch of these cars down here in florida, and i have seen many larger cars with roughly the same milage per gallon, a toyota carolla is one that comes to mind.

i remember being in high school when this car was either a concept or just sold over seas (1990-1991) and i thought it was cool and the milage was awesome, but now i am not impressed with it at all, and i have seem a few motorcycles next to it and the are rougly the same size, it kinda makes me wonder what the flip over rate is on these, but as far as looks go, there is nothing else on the road that comes close.

[Velosapien]

I think this car lost something in the translation from a euro to us version. The US versions gas mileage sucks. They work well for their intended puspose as city cars, particularly in europe with so many old small streets but I don't think the concept works well in the US. It's not a highway car.

[Velosapien]

this will not fix our problems with the exception of tight parking spaces.

Thats really what the original concept for the car was. Just a compact city car for horribly congested european cities. The gas mileage didn't really play such a big role then.

[wrench spinner]

Can you say unsafe!!!! I used to drive tow trucks a few years ago when i was a little slow and let me tell you a kia gets real messed up at only 30 mph into guiderails at 60 mph head on see ya, a honda civic, those "crumple zones" they work but after an accident the only way to get out of a car is thouth a window because the doors dont like to open unless you are just short of hercules... or Gear Junkie (that is the rumor that has come out of the Roundup at least) Back to the topic.... I dont know about you guys but i dont like that idea. How come we can't just get the trucks we need that make the world go round more fuel efficient and just as strong. Our technologies have come so far but in as far as fuel efficeint vehicle we seem to be in the "stone age" and oh yeah more affordable too as far a truck 33K for a pick up truck come'on people? Everyone should make a buck but pass it on to the working man. I cant think straight now ill add more later!:rant:

[cpw]

How come we can't just get the trucks we need that make the world go round more fuel efficient and just as strong.
For an additional $10k they are making a hybrid Tahoe that does just as well as a regular Camry in the driving (21 mpg). You would need a lot of miles to make up that $10k though.

[reConx]

For an additional $10k they are making a hybrid Tahoe that does just as well as a regular Camry in the driving (21 mpg). You would need a lot of miles to make up that $10k though.

10K is a lot of dough but if you really need the utility (towing,large objects etc) a Camry is no Tahoe. 21mpg is impressive for a Tahoe but I do have reservations in achieving that figure unless road conditions improve (daily traffic) or I change my driving habits (offensive). :lmao: If I could unload my mid-size SUV I would get a civic/camry-sized vehicle with 4cyl in order to achieve better safety plus great gas mileage instead of that "smartcar" and keep my full-size pick-up for the towing/hauling.

[cpw]

10K is a lot of dough but if you really need the utility (towing,large objects etc) a Camry is no Tahoe. 21mpg is impressive for a Tahoe but I do have reservations in achieving that figure unless road conditions improve (daily traffic) or I change my driving habits (offensive). :lmao: If I could unload my mid-size SUV I would get a civic/camry-sized vehicle with 4cyl in order to achieve better safety plus great gas mileage instead of that "smartcar" and keep my full-size pick-up for the towing/hauling.
I didn't mean to say that a Camry was as good as a Tahoe for those things. I was trying to commend GM on building such a powerful car that has the performance of the gas-only Tahoe, but making it have the same mileage as a small car.

The Tahoe's hybrid highway mileage doesn't get any better, but if you are sitting in traffic or stop and go it basically brings the city mileage up to the highway mileage.

The regular Tahoe uses 0.0666 gallons/mile. The Hybrid uses 0.05. You save 0.01666 per (city). At $4/gallon that is six cents. To make up $10,000 you need to drive it at least 150,000 miles. That basically means it is a toss up as to whether you'll save or spend more money (assuming $4/gallon).

[SlimTim]

Here's my son when he was 12 in front of a smart car in Sorrento, Italy.
If you lived in a crowded city with little parking I think it would be cool. If you have to get on the expressway-a death trap.

[JCsPlumbing]

WOULD EVERYONE DO ME A FAVOR? GO TO http://www.fueleconomy.gov (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/) AND CHECK THE SPECS ON THE HONDA CIVIC HB VX. AROUND 1995.

KEEP IN MIND THIS VEHICLE IS 13 YEARS OLD. HAVEN'T IMPROVED MUCH HAVE WE? :) HYBRID SHMYBRID.

OH, BY THE WAY, DON'T GO LOOKING FOR ONE. PEOPLE THAT BOUGHT THEM DRIVE THEM FOREVER OR KIDS BUILD UP/SCREW UP THEIR ENGINE.

I LOOKED FOR ONE EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE FOR YEARS. NEVER FOUND A DECENT USED ONE. ALWAYS BEEN A BIT OF A CAR NUT.

J.C.

[Woussko]

Once upon a time I had a 1984 Chevy Caprice Classic 4 door with 4 speed auto trans and 5.0L 305 Cu. In. engine in it. While they claimed it would run on regular 87 gasoline, I found this to be not so. It would run OK on plus 89 and even better on super 93. Running it on super 93, I got around 25-26 MPG on average out on the highway going 55-60 MPH on level roads. In the city I got about 15 MPG or so. Considering it weighed over 5000 pounds empty and with a full fuel tank, I think that was pretty good considering many new cars that are under 3500 pounds can't do that well today.

I really want to see a good size car done as a hybrid electric with a constant speed Diesel engine generator and full electronic controls. I want it to have a good battery capacity as well. Then I really think we may see 4000 pounds getting over 35 MPG highway and 30 in the city on average. The coo coo half @$$ mini battery hybrids out now are just hype and big $$$. They need to get it right for a change.

[Rafael]

I had a datsun b210 once upon a time. It was about the size of todays honda civic. I got 35 mpg in the city and close to 50mpg on the highway. This was back in the 1970s. What gives?

[Frankiarmz]

1994 Geo Metro XFI


Use Your Gas Prices &
Annual Miles

Switch to Metric units

Estimated New EPA MPG
MPG ratings for this vehicle have been revised
Regular Gasoline
43
City 46
Combined 51
Hwy

Compare to Official
EPA Window
Sticker MPG

MPG Estimates from Drivers Like You
Learn more about
"Your MPG"
Average based on 2 vehicles.
52.6
Lo
51 Hi
54

Fourteen years later and we can't do any better ?

[rombo]

What do ya mean unsafe have you seen a smart car lately

[reConx]

[quote=Woussko;153578]Once upon a time I had a 1984 Chevy Caprice Classic 4 door with 4 speed auto trans and 5.0L 305 Cu. In. engine in it. While they claimed it would run on regular 87 gasoline, I found this to be not so. It would run OK on plus 89 and even better on super 93. Running it on super 93, I got around 25-26 MPG on average out on the highway going 55-60 MPH on level roads. In the city I got about 15 MPG or so. Considering it weighed over 5000 pounds empty and with a full fuel tank, I think that was pretty good considering many new cars that are under 3500 pounds can't do that well today. quote]

I had the same Caprice Classic dark metallic blue and dead ringer for undercover patrol car. I remember the tough chrome bumpers, big trunk, and decent gas mileage (22mpg++) on cruise control.

[Velosapien]

If you were to take many of those old cars and make them meet modern day safety and emissions regulations their gas mileage would be quite worse. All that stuff is weight that keeps getting added on. Even compact cars are not really that compact anymore. Cars are much heavier now. All things being equal most modern cars will be more efficient.

[Velosapien]

I had a datsun b210 once upon a time. It was about the size of todays honda civic. I got 35 mpg in the city and close to 50mpg on the highway. This was back in the 1970s. What gives?


I had a friend with a 210 and compared to a modern day Civic it was tiny. Doing some quick searching it looks like a Datsun b210 weighs about 2000lbs and was rated officially at 29/41mpg. I think it had somewhere around 60 to 80hp but can't find any solid details. A base 2008 Honda Civic weighs about 2800lbs and gets 25/36 with a 140hp engine. All things considered the civic is a far more efficient vehicle. If you dumped those extra 800 pounds and went with a smaller engine, you could probably beat a Prius.

[Newman]

The Honda Insight which they stopped making, gets 70MPG.

[Velosapien]

The Insight was rather impractical which led to its demise but it's not completely dead. They're planning to fit its hybrid powertrain on to the Fit. It's expected to fall in the mid 50mpg range. They are ressurecting the Insight name in a new model but it's a completely new car.

[JCsPlumbing]

The VX while 13 year ago was as reasonably safe as alot of small cars. Airbag requirements hadn't come along though.

You could get around 50 mpg hwy in a normal internal combustion engine. This was there "lean burn" engine if I recall and was very low in environmental impact.

I have no citation for this, but I could swear I remember reading that the Clinton administration made a requirement for automakers to make a certain percentage of hybrid vehicles. Not saying it was dumb or bad intentions if true, just didn't pan out yet.

Also, like I said I've always been a car enthusiast (or nut:)). A short while ago, gas was cheap, but they made hybrids. I'm always looking at prices and new things. Anyway, they passed a $3,000.00 tax credit for a hybrid. Within a month, the prices for hybrids went up............ about $3000.00. :(.

J.C.

[smorris]

I had a deposit on a smart, and was on the waiting list for 8 months. I finally canceled when I found it was going to be another 12-14 months until I got my car. Meanwhile, other cars were showing up in the area, and dealers were adding assorted dealer installed options to make more profit (they are not allowed to sell the car for more than MSRP.)

However, the cars are extremely well made. I have a new Mercedes C-300, and the quality of the smart is every bit as good. It is not a cheap car. It is a small urban car. At $12-18k, you could get something else, but it wouldn't be a smart.

The smart gets the highest 2008 MPG of any car available in the US that isn't a diesel or hybrid. Sure older cars beat the gas mileage. But they don't build those any more. Today's Civic is much larger than our '83 Accord, weighs half again as much, and has half again the engine. We apparently don't want the cars of the '70s any more.

The smart passed the crash tests with aplomb, and there are videos out there of the car surviving crashes that no other car could. It doesn't matter, as the passenger would be dead no matter what the vehicle. But running the car into a concrete barrier at 70 MPG, having it bounce back and roll over, and still be able to open and close the door with the latch intact is pretty impressive. Especially considering that the M-B E-class that they tested after didn't fare near as well.

According to owners on smartcarofamerica.com, the car mostly excedes the advertised MPG specs, and is a joy to drive. As expected, it isn't for the highway, but it can comfortably cruise at 70 MPH plus, and is limited to 90 MPH.

Then there is the "too small for safety" issue. Hell, compared to most motorcycles and all four of my scooters, the smart is huge! I ride on the Interstate and in heavy traffic all the time. As long as you know that you are nearly invisible to most drivers today, and drive defensively, you'll be OK. Buy owners of small sports cars, motorcycles, scooters and bicycles have known that for years! And any more, everyone needs to watch for unattentive drivers. Just because your in a large vehicle doesn't make you immune to someone on a phone running a light.

The smart may not be for everyone, but it is a quality built car that serves its purpose well, and doesn't cost too much to buy or own. What's stupid about that?

[JCsPlumbing]

I worked at someones house yesterday that had one. I didn't examine it well but I have no problem with it and don't think anyone is stupid to purchase one.

But I do think alot of so called "improvements" in all cars is lacking.

And you may love your Mercedes. If so, GREAT! But Mercedes has been rated for years as one of the most problematic brands manufactured.

Saying the Smart is comparable to a Mercedes isn't saying much to me. :rolleyes:

J.C.

[billmoy]

Guess who makes the smart car?




Smart is a division of Mercedes

[Frankiarmz]

Saw a guy parking one on Saturday so I stopped to talk to him. He said he really like the car and it had all the standard goodies of a regualr sized car, auto, power steering, air, etc. He said the gas mileage was around 33 city! He didn't seem to mind and said claims of higher mileage were not true in his opinion. All I could think about was how tiny this poor excuse for a car was as it sat there. A tiny two seater with less than a foot of rear cargo room. God help you if you got rear ended. He said he felt safe and that it had some kind of roll cage design? I think it's too small for me or anyone I care about, just can't see it holding up well in an accident and there's just no room inside. They seem to be selling plenty so time will tell how they hold up. Good luck to anyone who buys into this product. I think we could get much more car and better mileage if the auto makers had the incentives.

[Velosapien]

I think we could get much more car and better mileage if the auto makers had the incentives.

They can certainly be made a lot more fuel efficient, but thats going to require cars to get a lot smaller and lighter for conventional gas engine cars. In which case the Smart would not be as small in comparison. As it is right now the Smart is ranked the most fuel efficient non-hybrid car in the US.

[gear junkie]

Guy at work had one today. It's so small I was able to pick up the back end off the ground. I wouldn't trust it in a crash.

[JCsPlumbing]

Oh no B! Now you've done it. I can see the next RoundUp competition at the hotel.

Ricks gonna challenge you to the Smart car lift. :rolleyes:

J.C.

[Dummyload]

Sorry, old thread, but had ro react. B)

Mile per gallon ratings are 33 city and 40 highway which are lousy considering the size of this thing.

Yeah, if it is as small as I read, it's lousy.

If a mile is roughly 1,6 kilometers, 33 to 40 makes 53 to 64 km roughly...
A gallon is what, 4,7 liters? that would be 7,3 to 8,8 liters per 100 km (the way it is calculated here) or 11 to 13 kilometers per liter...

Well, my 1984 Ford Fiesta, which is apparently larger, and of older technology than the car being discussed, refused to consume more than 5,5l/100km, which makes 18+ km/l or 53 mpg... if I got the coefficients even closely right.

And now, my 1991 Toyota Carina runs with approximately 6l/100km, or 16 to 17km/l... 50mpg??? That it weighs approximately two Fiestas and consumes little more gas, it is rather economical. Guess i'm not upgrading to a newer model any time soon, not with our gas prices reaching for the heavens.

[Tom W]

My wife told me today how a dealer in our area gave/loaned/whatever a few smart cars to the school where she works for on-campus use. She said they are all over the place. Great merchandizing strategy. The school, as you can imagine, is full of left wingers who love this kind of thing. With apologies to Thomas Merton, as an added benefit to the local economy, caused by the marketing ploy, the sale of laundry detergent has increased because those professors' shorts are dripping every time they see one drive by.

[Velosapien]

A gallon is what, 4,7 liters? that would be 7,3 to 8,8 liters per 100 km (the way it is calculated here) or 11 to 13 kilometers per liter...



1 gallon = 3.79 liters.

[NHMaster3015]

My 97 civic dx gets 34mpg city and thats with the air on.

[Dummyload]

1 gallon = 3.79 liters.

So I'll calculate new mileages...

Taking rough values. 1 mile is roughly 1.6km and a gallon roughly 3.8l, that would seem to give mpg/kml coefficient 0,421.

33mpg x 0,421 = 13,9km/l

40mpg x 0,421 = 16,8km/l

These approach equity with my current vehicle.

My old fiesta would have run roughly 18,2km/l, or 43mpg...

and with my Toyota I now reach 16,5km/l, or 39mpg.

The smart is a wee bit more efficient on highway, than my Toyota on average. And I have room for more passengers and for more junk in the trunk.

[wrench spinner]

What do ya mean unsafe have you seen a smart car lately

That is pretty cool!!! I want a smart car now!

[Velosapien]

Maybe this would make it more exciting. Smart car + Suzuki Hayabusa superbike engine = Smartuki (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EV7wyc3rs)
http://www.smartuki.com/ :D

[Velosapien]

So I'll calculate new mileages...

Taking rough values. 1 mile is roughly 1.6km and a gallon roughly 3.8l, that would seem to give mpg/kml coefficient 0,421.

33mpg x 0,421 = 13,9km/l

40mpg x 0,421 = 16,8km/l

These approach equity with my current vehicle.

My old fiesta would have run roughly 18,2km/l, or 43mpg...

and with my Toyota I now reach 16,5km/l, or 39mpg.

The smart is a wee bit more efficient on highway, than my Toyota on average. And I have room for more passengers and for more junk in the trunk.


Note that the european version is rated at 50+ mpg equivalent and the diesel which is coming out does 60 to 70mpg. By european standards good but probably not great either. I think Damlier should just have Toyota or Honda design the engine since they seem completely incapable of making an efficient engine and they are obviously not capable of tuning it well enough to meet US regs.

[smorris]

I think Damlier should just have Toyota or Honda design the engine since they seem completely incapable of making an efficient engine and they are obviously not capable of tuning it well enough to meet US regs.

The current smart gas has a Mitsubishi engine.

[Dummyload]

Note that the european version is rated at 50+ mpg equivalent and the diesel which is coming out does 60 to 70mpg. <SNIP> Damlier should just have Toyota or Honda design the engine

Yes diesel would be more efficient and also here it is cheaper per liter... but the annual vehicle tax is much higher for those... I have calculated that for my current driving mileage I'm not going to save a lot if any, by going diesel.

The fuel prices are from hell here... 1,58€/l average for 95E gas... but we Finns are crazy people. Someone dared say gas could cost almost 3€/l before we would significantly reduce driving. heck, I have to drive to work. No public transport available where and when I work. My trip to work won't shorten if thy jack the prices up.

[DUNBAR]

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2008-07-16-leno-cover_N.htm



Play the video