What The Heck Happend Here

[TOPDAWG]

Bill and I were back out to a job today that we did yesterday. We had the drains flowing fine when we left (soft blockage) ran water for 10 min flushed toilets a number of times you get the point. Get a call that it backed up again this morning. The house was built in the 60's and had no clean out that we could find so we pulled a toilet (same as the one we went through the day before) ran the snake only to find today that it would not go anywhere but up the vent stack (closet bend must come off a vertical sanitary Tee) tried a couple different times and every time up she went. I looked at the roof like I here other members frequently talk about (not to mention any names Rick) but I am a ground guy and not much into heights so we pulled a different toilet and ran the funnel auger down, got in about 10' and I felt a little bind then it stopped, I pushed a little harder and it started going again but it felt weird so I was hesitant to push it in any further so I pulled it out. :dance:This is when I wish we had a camera so we could see what caused this to happen. We know now why a camera is a asset to a company, it is driving me crazy not knowing what caused this to happen.

[Service Guy]

Call in a drain-cleaner with a camera. Something's going on and a camera is needed to find out what. I don't do much drain-cleaning yet, so I don't have a camera yet either, but on the rare occasion I need one I'll call a local reliable company in to video the job and get the price OK'd by the customer.

[oldslowchevy]

my home here in florida has cast iron drains till you get outside the slab, then it went to some kinda of tarpaper cardboard pipe(can't remember what it is called) that clapesed on it's self. water would flow very very slow, then i havd it snaked all was fine for a day or two then right back to the same thing again. once i knew what the problem was i had the yard dug up and had the replaced with pvc, that was 2 years ago(about) and i have had no problems since.

and yes i had the line camered first to make sure that was the problem.

[Herk]

Looks to me as if it caught on something - could have been a crack in the pipe or even a gap at a fitting - and it started uncoiling. Then it doubled over on itself and sent several wraps through one of the coils as it unwound. It certainly is unusual, and amazing to me that it didn't kink or break.

[Ace Sewer]

Something is directing you up that vent, probably the same something that caught your bit. Possibly a object, possibly a broken/collapsed line. Without a camera available, I'd try again with a less flexy bit, possibly with a bent leader on your cable. Also I'd be thinking about other options to get access to the problem area, which is likely right at the bottom of the vent. How many bends from the toilet? mirror and flashlight an option? Could you look down the vent with a mirror on a sunny day? Get to it from basement or crawlspace? dig? Go up from exterior cleanout? Rent a camera? Call in someone with one? close enough to any access you might do some good with a micro? just a bunch of ideas to get you thinking....good luck

[TOPDAWG]

Something is directing you up that vent, probably the same something that caught your bit. Possibly a object, possibly a broken/collapsed line. Without a camera available, I'd try again with a less flexy bit, possibly with a bent leader on your cable. Also I'd be thinking about other options to get access to the problem area, which is likely right at the bottom of the vent. How many bends from the toilet? mirror and flashlight an option? Could you look down the vent with a mirror on a sunny day? Get to it from basement or crawlspace? dig? Go up from exterior cleanout? Rent a camera? Call in someone with one? close enough to any access you might do some good with a micro? just a bunch of ideas to get you thinking....good luck
Slab house, remodeled 10 years ago so if any cleanout were in the house they are now under tile floor (90% of the house is tiled) old septic tank with no exterior cleanout and with no way of snaking up to house from it, Bill was able to get through the one toilet the other day I just had no luck or patience so I moved to the one closer to the septic which was the master bath toilet. I just cant see how it would come back on its self in a 4" line like it did? I thought even back in the 60's they had to use directional fittings?

[Cuda]

Slab houses usually have the side sewer pretty shallow as it exits the house.

[JERRYMAC]

LOCATE AND DIG UP SEPTIC TANK

AT THE INLET YOU CAN RUN BACK UP THE DRAIN LINE MAYBE????
PULL OUT WHATEVER IS CLOGGING THE DRAIN
:party-on:

OR YOU NEED A CAMERA LOCATER AND GET OUT THE JACKHAMMER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shocked2:

BEST OF LUCK LET US KNOW WHAT HAPPENS ?

[PLUMBER RICK]

mike, i never use the large funnel auger for a stoppage. only as a retriever.

you also can attempt to run the machine in reverse until you get the head down the tee. the open hook can and will grab on a fitting in a bend. running in reverse will allow it to skip.

my cutter of choice is either the 4 blade cutter #t-113 or the spiral sawtooth #t-111.

not sure about your roof access, but if i have a 3''or 4'' vent, i'm all over it on a decent roof. much faster and simpler than a toilet pull.

also a micro might help in directing the cable down the tee?

don't let me down mike.

team geritol:wave3: mike , bill and rick;)

rick.

[gear junkie]

You can also go down the roof vent with the pvc pipe extention posted by all clear. Do a search of his posts, skip the complaining and you'll find the pic. Works very well I might add.

[PLUMBER RICK]

You can also go down the roof vent with the pvc pipe extention posted by all clear. Do a search of his posts, skip the complaining and you'll find the pic. Works very well I might add.

ben, if he was to go on the roof to attach all the pipe and fittings, why not just haul the 29# machine up there? with the 43# of 75' of 7/8'' cable and cage?

sure beats the extra cable needed, loss of feel, torque and all the asst. pipe and fittings to assembly the maze.

yes i used to do this with a better, faster system when i had no choice hauling a 150# machine and 122# cable.

mike doesn't want to climb roofs. if he did, he would be topcat:D

rick.

[TOPDAWG]

mike, i never use the large funnel auger for a stoppage. only as a retriever.

you also can attempt to run the machine in reverse until you get the head down the tee. the open hook can and will grab on a fitting in a bend. running in reverse will allow it to skip.

my cutter of choice is either the 4 blade cutter #t-113 or the spiral sawtooth #t-111.

not sure about your roof access, but if i have a 3''or 4'' vent, i'm all over it on a decent roof. much faster and simpler than a toilet pull.

also a micro might help in directing the cable down the tee?

don't let me down mike.

team geritol:wave3: mike , bill and rick;)

rick.

Thanks Rick, I will try out the cutters that you recommend. The reason I put the funnel auger down first in a sewer clean is that I like to pull out what is blocking the sewer so I know what I am up against whether it be roots or paper. Thanks again for the info.

[TOPDAWG]

You can also go down the roof vent with the pvc pipe extention posted by all clear. Do a search of his posts, skip the complaining and you'll find the pic. Works very well I might add.
Thanks for the advice Ben, I will let Bill try this way out

[gear junkie]

ben, if he was to go on the roof to attach all the pipe and fittings, why not just haul the 29# machine up there? with the 43# of 75' of 7/8'' cable and cage?
The pipe doesn't take any extra work. Some roofs are so steep I've had to use this before, no way you could climb up there. I do agree with you on the loss of feel but you'll still know what you're doing in there. Topcat-that's like a negative 5 in the joke department.

[All Clear Sewer]

sure beats the extra cable needed, loss of feel, torque and all the asst. pipe and fittings to assembly the maze.

rick.
Rick I have a hard time believing that even you are that slow at pipe and fittings....?

I mean yes, you use one of the slowest machines for main lines but there`s only one way I can think of sticking a pipe and a fitting together.

As far as loss of feel and torque you couldn't be more wrong. Feel is one of our senses just like hearing. If you can Hear you have Feel of what your machine is doing.

As far as torque there is no loss and I don't know where you come up with that one?????


BTW all, I was thinking about all the crying about how the K-7500 won the event... Anyone ever use a Machine before self-feeders??? I started on a drum (basket) machine back in the early 80`s that didn't have self-feed and that`s how you fed the cable down the line.
I see nothing unfair about the way the event was won.
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight ;)

[PLUMBER RICK]

Rick I have a hard time believing that even you are that slow at pipe and fittings....?

according to the contest i assembled the propress maze, lag bolts and pipe threading the fastest.

i know i can smoke you in your tinker toy erector setup.

my drum machines have a custom set up that is unique for overhead roof work. if your willing to pay for my set up, then we can talk.

i'll even make you a bet. i smoke you, you pay for my set up. you beat me and i give you the set up for free.

either way you win. you get a faster erector set for a good price or free.

$1000. should cover my time. plus air fare and hotel. unless you want to come out here. on you dime.

did you forget i have 5, 750-7500 drum machines. do you think i never did a roof job from the ground before.

i only had a helper when the other plumber i bailed out was there. on my jobs it's just me.

I mean yes, you use one of the slowest machines for main lines but there`s only one way I can think of sticking a pipe and a fitting together.

that's the problem, you can only think of 1 way. a plumber has many, many ways of sticking pipe together.

As far as loss of feel and torque you couldn't be more wrong. Feel is one of our senses just like hearing. If you can Hear you have Feel of what your machine is doing.

As far as torque there is no loss and I don't know where you come up with that one?????

lets see, 20-30' up the to the roof/ vent and then back down again.

with all your tinker toys. lots of friction and loss of power. the closer you're to the stoppage. the more torque you have on the cutter. why do you think the machine is only rated for 250' amount of cable.

physics 101.


BTW all, I was thinking about all the crying about how the K-7500 won the event... Anyone ever use a Machine before self-feeders??? I started on a drum (basket) machine back in the early 80`s that didn't have self-feed and that`s how you fed the cable down the line.
I see nothing unfair about the way the event was won.
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight ;)

for someone who never even showed up to the roundup. you should be the last person defending the challenge.



i purposely used the k-60 as i was it's main backer.

i knew in this particular set up, there was no way the k-60 could win.

just like i know there is no way the 7500 could do the k-1500 board buster contest.

now if you want to see how fast we can throw cable down a line great.

this challenge was not real drain cleaning contest. it was an exercise contest.

maybe next time we can wheel/ carry the machine across the field first and then snake the drain. this was closer to how fast we could wind up an extension cord.

when you spend the time and money to attend, then you can truly critique the event. being a backseat driver is not it.

rick.

[ToUtahNow]

Rick,

Why in the world do you feel this unhealthy need to defend yourself? Everyone knew you would do well at the Roundup but who could have guessed you would have done so well in so many different events. The facts speak for themselves and regardless of how many times you regurgitate them the facts are the facts.

Anyone can talk smack and it is much easier but less credible to talk smack when you have an empty scorecard. So stop defending yourself and revel in the fact that you walked the walk while others just talk the talk.

Mark:slap:

[All Clear Sewer]

Rick
There's a reason I was not at the event and if you don't understand it then I don't know what to tell ya.
She comes first in my life, not some event. I have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in to her treatment with out INS and I`m not about to blow the deal so I can go to an event.

Nether here nor there why I was not at the event, there's always gonna be something that's unfair to someone. Thats life!
Like I said back when I started my first year as a plumber I ran an old basket machine and you had to hand stuff the cable down the C/O or in and open hole that was knocked in the main line.
It`s a no brainer ;)
You cant do that with a K-60 as the cable will fold over on ya. That's just another thing you cant do or just another limit of the K-60.
Each tool has a place but in NO WAY is the K-60 gonna be able to do the Day to Day work that a sewer guy needs it to do. I`m not talking a plumber that does one or even 5 a week. I`m talking a guy that does it all day long!
If you want to work from roof`s then that's ok by me but I rather do the job right and do it from a C/O as you get a much better clean from the ground. I install C/O`s all week long and that's just adds to the money at the end of the week.
It comes down to the customers, What's best for them and how can I do it at a fair price and what makes em call me time after time. You would be shocked at how many call me just because I use a drum machine. Some of em think it`s something new as they have only seen the K-1500`s.
I hear it all the time, "The last guy had to stick cable together" I like what makes me money and what does the best job on the task at hand. That why I have a trailer full of equipment.

Rick don't take all the ribbing to heart, you brought it on yourself with all the K-60 talk. I`m just having fun with it as you would be doing the same and you know \"IF" you would have put a kill on the K-7500.
Now tell me you wouldn't have, I`m waiting :D

[gear junkie]

my drum machines have a custom set up that is unique for overhead roof work. if your willing to pay for my set up, then we can talk.

i'll even make you a bet. i smoke you, you pay for my set up. you beat me and i give you the set up for free.

either way you win. you get a faster erector set for a good price or free.

$1000. should cover my time. plus air fare and hotel. unless you want to come out here. on you dime.

did you forget i have 5, 750-7500 drum machines. do you think i never did a roof job from the ground before.


Not sure if I read this right, but that sounds like a challenge to me. Steve are you going to take that?

[All Clear Sewer]

Are you putting gas on the fire :killingme:

Boss say`s I gotta go to work, see ya later

[gear junkie]

Are you putting gas on the fire :killingme:

Boss say`s I gotta go to work, see ya later
Nuh uh, you get back here and defend yourself like a man.

[All Clear Sewer]

Ok :D

Rick how many sewers did you do to day?

I did 8 main lines 100 to 125` on all 8
I did 2 sink lines
I did 1 tub drain
I did a locate and an estimate on a sewer replacement of 180`.

It`s the slow time of the season and this was a slow day so I thought I`d rib you some :D

You are a plumber that will do sewers "I give you a big hand for that"
I am a plumber that sewers are my main line of work.
You could most likely out plumb me any day with the drive you have but when it`s sewer time you just better stand back ;)

Theres a reason I am the go to guy when all else fails around here :D

[HVAC HAWK]

ok boys lets not get on each others nerves here on how much work each other did i a days time . we all have a job to do and have fun doing it .how many people did you make laugh to day i bet rick made more laugh then you :D:D
i bet he showed his cork in a bottle trick to more people then drains you cleaned
and lets not go to the coat hanger and a penny trick :eek::eek:

do you all get my drift LOL

[ToUtahNow]

Ok :D

Theres a reason I am the go to guy when all else fails around here :D

That's actually pretty funny as trouble drains were our specialty as well and if I am not mistaken Rick is the go to guy in his neighborhood for troubled drains.

These post remind of when my oldest daughter first went off to a University. While in High School she was class president, school treasure, peer leader, taught MADD seminars, captain of the cheer leading squad and possessed about every award ever offered. When she arrived at college she realized every girl in every dorm room had done the same things.

It's tough to be the coolest kid on the floor when every kid is the coolest kid on the floor. My guess is in a couple more years Rick with catch up to me and before too long you will catch up to Rick. It's kind of like a natural progression.

Mark :nyaa-nyaa4:

[All Clear Sewer]

I don't know because I`m happy where I am at. Really I am and no one believes me... I get asked it all the time "why do you play in the sewers"
I always just look up with a little crap splatter on my face and say "the money baby, the money"
My master plumber asked me what am I gonna do when he retires and I get my master card. I say I`m gonna be right here doing the same thing I`m doing now"
Rick will always be able to out plumb me as I dont keep up on the new stuff and dont like most of it anyway. I`m old school when connecting water pipes. "Dont like Pex, Pro press or Shark Bite" ;)
I am a true turd herder to the fullest 100%

I love the smell of sewage build-up in the morning :barf: :D

[MrsSeatDown]

I am sure Rick didn't do as many sewers as you today. But Hawk is right. He probably made more people laugh or roll their eyes today:D

All that really matters is you both like your jobs and have pride in your work. Who cares how you got it done as long as you got it done.

Wish circumstances were different and you could have made it to the roundup.

But PLEASE don't make me hear about this for another year just because you were not able to come this year.;)

Joey

[All Clear Sewer]

another year,,,, Naw
I was only thinking 6 months.... :killingme:

[PLUMBER RICK]

Ok :D

Rick how many sewers did you do to day?

I did 8 main lines 100 to 125` on all 8
I did 2 sink lines
I did 1 tub drain
I did a locate and an estimate on a sewer replacement of 180`.

It`s the slow time of the season and this was a slow day so I thought I`d rib you some :D

You are a plumber that will do sewers "I give you a big hand for that"
I am a plumber that sewers are my main line of work.
You could most likely out plumb me any day with the drive you have but when it`s sewer time you just better stand back ;)

Theres a reason I am the go to guy when all else fails around here :D

with that trailer of your's, you wouldn't be able to drive and find parking at 8 jobs in a day here. we're not in kansas anymore:D

when i'm doing sewer cleaning at a complex. i typically catch 30-40 lines in a day. either snaking or jetting. without help and all cleaned up.

driving here is not like driving there.

bet you didn't get a tip and a bowl of baskin robbins ice cream like i did yesterday;)

rick.

[Ace Sewer]

old septic tank with no exterior cleanout and with no way of snaking up to house from it

You've got a tank to work from? that's what I'd be trying. 'no way to go up from tank'?... why not? tank lid not over inlet line? for sure at least expose the tank lid and get a look at it; your problem may be downstream of the tank.


Sorry to swerve back on topic.....just can't help myself.