Totally Insane Diesel and Gasoline Pricing in MD

[Woussko]

Here in Maryland, and in nearby PA and VA, I see totally insane pricing. An example is where there are 4 name brand stations all very close to each other along a busy highway. Regular gasoline will be $3.939 at station A and $4.229 at Station B and $3.999 at station C and $4.129 at Station D, but if you check the price of Super grade gasoline it will be lowest at station B !!!

Diesel fuel while normally a good bit higher is lowest at station D. I've actually seen where a huge truck stop had #2 Diesel at 45 cents per gallon more than a small gasoline station only 1/2 mile away. Both were ultra low sulfur on highway type.

The lesson is to know just what you want and price that while forgetting the general pricing structure of a given station.

What I do normally find is that when I get closer to a large city, the prices skyrocket. Same with the out of the way stations and those right along main highways. With prices constantly changing, it's wise to have friends and when one finds a good price, make some phone calls so everyone can fill up.

Web sites are very outdated. You must look right on the pumps. The signs out in front in many cases are in error. It's the pump price that matters.

[cpw]

Here in Maryland, and in nearby PA and VA, I see totally insane pricing. An example is where there are 4 name brand stations all very close to each other along a busy highway. Regular gasoline will be $3.939 at station A and $4.229 at Station B and $3.999 at station C and $4.129 at Station D, but if you check the price of Super grade gasoline it will be lowest at station B !!!

Diesel fuel while normally a good bit higher is lowest at station D. I've actually seen where a huge truck stop had #2 Diesel at 45 cents per gallon more than a small gasoline station only 1/2 mile away. Both were ultra low sulfur on highway type.

The lesson is to know just what you want and price that while forgetting the general pricing structure of a given station.

What I do normally find is that when I get closer to a large city, the prices skyrocket. Same with the out of the way stations and those right along main highways. With prices constantly changing, it's wise to have friends and when one finds a good price, make some phone calls so everyone can fill up.

Web sites are very outdated. You must look right on the pumps. The signs out in front in many cases are in error. It's the pump price that matters.
I've never actually seen that here where the price at the pump is different than the outside signage. The closest thing I've seen is the pumps out of regular, in which case I pull out and keep driving.

I wish that I could find regular gas for <$4 a gallon. The regular price around here seems to be $4.25 and up. The highest price for gas/diesel I have seen is $5.75 for diesel at the station closest to my house for the last week.

One thing that I've been pondering is that I wonder if premium gasoline will begin to make economic sense. When gas was only in the high $1s when I started driving a $.20 difference was huge, but now when gas is $4+ it could be that designing engines that would get better mileage with better gas could become cost effective. I don't know if this is true or not, just something that I've thought of as passing by the signs.

[reConx]

One thing that I've been pondering is that I wonder if premium gasoline will begin to make economic sense. When gas was only in the high $1s when I started driving a $.20 difference was huge, but now when gas is $4+ it could be that designing engines that would get better mileage with better gas could become cost effective. I don't know if this is true or not, just something that I've thought of as passing by the signs.

That is an interesting concept because it would be nice to have engines that are more fuel efficient with higher quality fuels (until a better fuel alternative is developed). Currently I use premium fuel in my vehicle that will run on regular because premium fuel significantly improves the acceleration to crusing speeds and the engine runs smoother. My gas mileage decreases on regular because I need to run the motor harder to achieve the same results I obtain on premium. This does not apply to all vehicles but if the cost of premium continues to rise I will have to settle with regular and alter my driving habits and acceleration expectations.

[Woussko]

Most of today's naturally aspirated (non turbo charged) gasoline engines are engineered for regular 87 octane gasoline. A friend that has a SUBARU with a turbo charged engine showed me in the owner's manual where it said to run it on 91 octane gasoline. He was putting in 2 parts of super 93 and 1 regular 87 but thought he would run a few tests. He started running it on super 93 to see what would happen. So far he hasn't found any improvements in power or fuel savings. He did run it on plus 89 and found it loggy and to knock some now and then on hills. I personally own a 2004 Subaru Outback with the standard engine. While it runs great on 87 regular, I have run it on 89 plus to find out what happens. All I can tell is a very slight boost in power and a little smoother idle when warming up in the winter.

Where I have found a good difference was in the past with older cars and trucks with high compression engines. They really do run far better on super 93 even when it's not called for. I would say that it might be worthwhile to do some testing. Some engines have sensors and will self adjust ignition timing based on the grade of gasoline used. If you suddenly switch from super to regular you'll have some serious knocking (pre-ignition) until the computer makes full adjustments. I used to own a 1987 Dodge with 2.5L fuel injected straight 4 and running it on super gave it more power and about a 5% fuel use savings. The same for a 1985 Chevy full size with 305 V-8 engine. It said to use regular but that engine really **&^%% on anything under a 1/2 regular and 1/2 super mix which would be 90 octane.

When it comes to large stationary Diesel engines, they sometimes will do custom valve and injection timing to try to get all they can out of a given fuel. Especially when you're burning 100 plus gallons per hour!!!.

Something I really want to try is a "blast from the past" where a fine mist of water is sprayed into the intake during high speed, heavy loading of gasoline engines. You would not believe the difference. The water mist flashes to steam and the engine really runs nice putting out a good bit more power. The water has to be super clean and free of minerals and chemicals. Hint: distilled water

Many years ago farmers would buy crappy grade "AG Only" fuel for their tractors. It was sort of a mix of cheapo gasoline with a little kerosene in it. The tractor engine had a water injector that kept water spraying into the air intake when the engine was hot and under load. They claimed it was like magic what that did. The problem was to be sure not to overdue the water. Just enough so the engine run good but no more. When speed was lowered or load removed the water had to be shut off fast.

Water injection should not be used with a Diesel engine other than special super high output modified engines and only when under very heavy loading. Careful monitoring is a must.

Anyway, I have found that on a summer evening when it's raining and foggy that all of my gasoline engines run their best. Steam works wonders.:) It helps breakup and remove carbon deposits too.

Bottom line: Find a good service center and have a really good tuneup performed. It really does make a difference. Changing to a good synthetic energy saving oil and use of premium grade oil and air filters will save us $$$ with the high fuel costs and our engines will last longer. Just be sure to check pricing.

Enough of me and my howling away. The End

[Woussko]

reConex

Your engine can sense the grade of gasoline used in it and self adjusts. In that case use of super will pay off. You might try a 1/2 and 1/2 blend which results in a better than plus grade and in many cases at lower cost. That is you put in say 10 gallons of super, reset the pump and then put in 10 gallons of regular.

One special note: Many companies that make small air cooled gasoline engines currently are asking that people run them on 89 plus and not on 87 regular. They have found they do run better. I've tried it and in some cases can tell the difference. In my 5 gallon cans, I run 3 gallons of regular and 2 of super. It actually costs me about 20 cents less to do it that way. Pricing is a joke for plus grade.

For everyone:
2 parts regular 87 and 1 part super 93 = 89 plus. (Sunoco blending pumps work this way.)
1 part regular 87 and 1 part 93 super = 90
1 part regular 87 and 2 parts super 93 = 91 premium (Again how Sunoco gets their 91 grade)

Sunoco stations only have 2 bulk tanks for gasoline. One is for 87 regular and the other 93 super. They have mixing right at the pumps. In years back they did 86 Econo and 94 Ultra. The EPA ended that some time ago. The wild thing is that it really pays for us to do our own mixing and even at Sunoco stations. Regular normally is way lower than plus and super isn't all that much more than mid-super. Just take your handy calculator along.

[Velosapien]

Most of today's naturally aspirated (non turbo charged) gasoline engines are engineered for regular 87 octane gasoline. A friend that has a SUBARU with a turbo charged engine showed me in the owner's manual where it said to run it on 91 octane gasoline. He was putting in 2 parts of super 93 and 1 regular 87 but thought he would run a few tests. He started running it on super 93 to see what would happen. So far he hasn't found any improvements in power or fuel savings. He did run it on plus 89 and found it loggy and to knock some now and then on hills. I personally own a 2004 Subaru Outback with the standard engine. While it runs great on 87 regular, I have run it on 89 plus to find out what happens. All I can tell is a very slight boost in power and a little smoother idle when warming up in the winter.



Woussko,
I have a 2002 naturally aspirated Impreza which has the same EJ25 engine as your Outback. Back when premium was still very cheap I expirimente running it on 91 for almost a year. The results were simply not very good. I put almost 30,000 miles on it that year. The first problem was the engine has a very hard time starting always. Gas mileage actually decreased a little and the engine just didn't respond all that well. As soon as I went back to regular 87 the difference was almost night and day. Bottom line, the car is designed to run on 87. Anything higher you are wasting money and making it perform worse.

[reConx]

Web sites are very outdated. You must look right on the pumps. The signs out in front in many cases are in error. It's the pump price that matters.

Another problem I am noticing as a 93 octane-addict is quality of the gasoline. The quality of the "premium fuel" seems to vary and is very frustrating after accepting the extra 20-30 cent cost per gallon over regular. I see the same tanker truck delivering to mutiple brands of gasoline stations and really wonder whether one brand is truly better than the other. I will experiment with your "mixing formula" but I need to remember that other factors such as quality can affect my results. Fuel costs will be "curing my addiction

[smorris]

Lots of Subie fans!

Velo, I think your '02 Impreza has the EJ20 engine. The 2.5 wasn't in the Impreza yet, was it? Memory is dim... My '02 WRX has the 2.0. I never can remember engine/chassis codes.

All of my vehicles require 91 or better, and I use Sunoco 93 exclusively. The two turbo Subarus require it, the modern Vespa runs crappy on midgrade, the MG and vintage Vespa need it for the octane, and I'll go back and forth on the Audi to keep a mix in there. For the short distance I drive it doesn't seem to make a difference. We haven't tried midgrade in the Benz yet.

Only my Suzuki and daughter's Miata use regular (although I think the Suzuki recommends mid-grade.) I am so in the habit of poking that 93 though, that I keep accidentally putting premium in the Suzuki. At 3 gallons, the extra $.30 doesn't make much difference, but it doesn't improve the mileage, either.

Man, I remember when you could fill a bike tank for a buck!

[Velosapien]

Lots of Subie fans!

Velo, I think your '02 Impreza has the EJ20 engine. The 2.5 wasn't in the Impreza yet, was it? Memory is dim... My '02 WRX has the 2.0. I never can remember engine/chassis codes.



As you can see from my avatar I'm a subie fan ;). The non-turbo impreza's have had the 2.5 engine since about 2001, hence the name Impreza 2.5RS. In 2006+ they became the Impreza 2.5i. The WRX also switched to the 2.5 engine at some point between 2003 to 2006. Funny thing is when I bought my 2.5RS in 2002 I picked it over the WRX in part because I was a little weary about buying a car that required premium gas. Kind of paid off now even though I've been toying with the idea of a WRX now anyway. I just hate the new styling. The 01-02 with the bug eye lamps are the best.

[tinmack]

Here in Maryland, and in nearby PA and VA, I see totally insane pricing. An example is where there are 4 name brand stations all very close to each other along a busy highway. Regular gasoline will be $3.939 at station A and $4.229 at Station B and $3.999 at station C and $4.129 at Station D, but if you check the price of Super grade gasoline it will be lowest at station B !!!

Diesel fuel while normally a good bit higher is lowest at station D. I've actually seen where a huge truck stop had #2 Diesel at 45 cents per gallon more than a small gasoline station only 1/2 mile away. Both were ultra low sulfur on highway type.

The lesson is to know just what you want and price that while forgetting the general pricing structure of a given station.

What I do normally find is that when I get closer to a large city, the prices skyrocket. Same with the out of the way stations and those right along main highways. With prices constantly changing, it's wise to have friends and when one finds a good price, make some phone calls so everyone can fill up.

Web sites are very outdated. You must look right on the pumps. The signs out in front in many cases are in error. It's the pump price that matters.


Ahhhhh.....stop yer whinin'.......

In Canada, we're paying the equivalent of $5.30 a gallon......some parts, even more than that.........

[tinmack]

And diesel is around $5.85..................

[Masterplumb]

Ahhhhh.....stop yer whinin'.......

In Canada, we're paying the equivalent of $5.30 a gallon......some parts, even more than that.........

Who cares?

[Woussko]

Woussko,
I have a 2002 naturally aspirated Impreza which has the same EJ25 engine as your Outback. Back when premium was still very cheap I expirimente running it on 91 for almost a year. The results were simply not very good. I put almost 30,000 miles on it that year. The first problem was the engine has a very hard time starting always. Gas mileage actually decreased a little and the engine just didn't respond all that well. As soon as I went back to regular 87 the difference was almost night and day. Bottom line, the car is designed to run on 87. Anything higher you are wasting money and making it perform worse.

For what it's worth, mine hates being run on super 93. I fully agree that it's engineered for regular 87 and that's what it should be run on. I have found that if driven on long hills with it loaded up that giving it a little super has helped but not by enough for the added cost.

[Woussko]

Along a busy highway not far from me and all very close together there is BP, Liberty (local small chain) and two Shell stations. The price for Regular 87 gasoline as of Saturday evening was as follows.

BP - 3.399
Liberty - 3.379
Shell A - 3.699
Shell B - 3.799

Now what really gets me is that the two Shell rip off stations were busy and the BP and Liberty had no customers.

Now a short distance up the same highway to the north there's a Sunoco and they sell regular 87 for $3.299 and E85 (special fuel) for $2.799 per US gallon.

Not too many gasoline stations in my area sell Diesel fuel but those that do are much too high. I really would like to price OFF ROAD Diesel fuel and #2 home heating oil to find out if it's highway taxes or if the oil companies are playing sicko games. Not that long ago a gallon of quality highway Diesel fuel was a good bit lower priced than regular grade gasoline.


Part 2

Within a 15 mile radius of where I live I have seen regular 87 gasoline for as low as $3.179 and as high as $3.999 all within a few days. Why oh why doesn't the state take action? Some of the stations are pure SCREWERS and maybe the low price ones are selling at cost or even a loss so as to be ready for the next delivery. Something is all wrong. Maybe it's local community taxes but I seriously doubt it.

[VASandy]

Along a busy highway not far from me and all very close together there is BP, Liberty (local small chain) and two Shell stations. The price for Regular 87 gasoline as of Saturday evening was as follows.

BP - 3.399
Liberty - 3.379
Shell A - 3.699
Shell B - 3.799

Now what really gets me is that the two Shell rip off stations were busy and the BP and Liberty had no customers.

Now a short distance up the same highway to the north there's a Sunoco and they sell regular 87 for $3.299 and E85 (special fuel) for $2.799 per US gallon.

Not too many gasoline stations in my area sell Diesel fuel but those that do are much too high. I really would like to price OFF ROAD Diesel fuel and #2 home heating oil to find out if it's highway taxes or if the oil companies are playing sicko games. Not that long ago a gallon of quality highway Diesel fuel was a good bit lower priced than regular grade gasoline.


Woussko, out here in the boonies many of the stations carry off-road diesel. I'll see a sign at a station DIESEL 3.22 and in fine print it says Off-Road! It's fooled me more than once, unfortunately. I didn't fill up, but I pulled into the station. No doubt that's just what they were hoping for. Although I immediately pulled through and didn't even stop at their little store, it got me off the road...and made me angry! The Quarles on 7W from Berryville has Diesel for 3.499 last time I checked, so I think I'll stop in and get a fill-up soon. They have off-road but they advertise their standard diesel price instead of trying to fool you with the off-road price.

There's a lot of price differentials here in Clarke County. One station in town has regular at 3.249, and the Triple-J station just outside town has regular at 3.159. I guess you really gotta shop around a bit. That's a huge difference, and will make it worth it to travel an extra mile.

[Woussko]

Thanks for the info Sandy.

My area isn't info farming so NO off highway anything. I can't think of anyone like a neighbor to ask about the cost of home heating oil as everyone around here has piped in natural gas or uses a heat pump and some manor of backup.

MD is known to tax all highway fuels more than VA. DC is worse than MD or VA and yet they have really bad roads.

It really does pay to look for good prices and fill up if you can. Please note that I have seen a good many lower price stations run out in the mid day and close down. Others have little hand made signs on the pumps.

Sorry, but we only have Super 93 as of now. Some put trash cans in the driveways when they are totally out.

I think it pays to stop if you see good prices and if they have what you need, then fill up. Things may get worse before getting better. Only time will tell.

My thinking is most likely Tuesday - Thursday they won't sell as much as Friday - Monday.

[cpw]

Woussko, out here in the boonies many of the stations carry off-road diesel. I'll see a sign at a station DIESEL 3.22 and in fine print it says Off-Road!
That is a pain, and I wouldn't go there even if they were cheaper on the highway out of principle. I also ignore the station that uses cash prices instead of credit prices on the sign near me.

There's a lot of price differentials here in Clarke County. One station in town has regular at 3.249, and the Triple-J station just outside town has regular at 3.159. I guess you really gotta shop around a bit. That's a huge difference, and will make it worth it to travel an extra mile.
Depends on the size of your tank. That would save me $0.90 to $1.44, I'm not going to go out of my way for a buck yet, since my time ma not be incredibly valuable; but it also isn't free.

[Woussko]

As for CASH prices we still have "FREESTATE" a local chain and they are cash and nothing but cash. They sell the 3 main grades of gasoline, on highway Diesel fuel and K1 kerosene on pump. It's all self service and they use a drop vault and have the armored courier come by frequently. Personally I think they are totally nuts not to take any credit cards at all but they are very busy when I have been driving by. I do get a little kerosene now and then as needed. No other self serve stations sell kerosene in my area anymore.

Now here is something that I find just insane regarding Diesel fuel. A friend out in the country in central PA has a truck stop not far from him. They have a good restaurant so he eats there quite a bit. Anyway he watches their cash and credit card price for Diesel fuel and compares it with the local Sheetz (Like a fancy 7-11) and it's always a good bit lower at Sheetz. They don't have fast pumps but they have a high roof so trucks can pull up to the pumps without problems. When you're buying 100+ gallons saving say 5 cents/gallon pays off as long as you can get there easy.

[Woussko]

Now back to the main subject.

In my county I see a fancy Chevron selling regular for $3.899 per gallon and yet about 10 miles away there are several name brand stations selling regular for $3.299 and even lower. I really think it's time the scalpers get scalped by law and closed down.

What really burns me up is the rip off stations are busy, but have a look. It's the fancy over paid YUPPEEs in their fancy cars that are in there. The office girls that look like a healthy Ally McBeal and the men in their $1500+ suits and $500+ fancy shoes. Us real people drive on by knowing just a short distance we can save enough on a fill-up for coffee and sometimes more.

Maybe I'm crazy but I really think there needs to be some price regulation.

YUP-PEE = worthless person that can't do anything simple yet makes over 100 times the $$$ he/she is really worth. Note I spell it YUP-PEE for a reason and I'm sure most of you can figure out why.

================================================== ============================================

Special note: Never even think of putting home heating oil or off road dyed Diesel fuel into any on road vehicle. Much of it isn't cleaned up as well and also if you get caught by Police your @$$ is grass so to speak. If you do run heating oil in an off road engine be sure to filter it well.

[Knary50]

Now back to the main subject.

In my county I see a fancy Chevron selling regular for $3.899 per gallon and yet about 10 miles away there are several name brand stations selling regular for $3.299 and even lower. I really think it's time the scalpers get scalped by law and closed down.

.

Sixty cents is hardly scalping. And it can hardly be considered scaliping when the product is readily available at a lower price. It's a free market economy and you should use you dollars to make a difference by supporting them.

I am not trying to argue and see you point and it disgusts me to see stations across the street or next to each other have that kinda of difference, but it is what it is. The government has not right to regulate the price unless they are willing to be the supplier.

[Bob D.]

How is the price of fuel different than the price of milk or the labor rate in an auto shop or a plumbers rates for that matter?

These people all charge what they feel is a fair price for their product based on operating costs, etc. It they are significantly higher then their competitor down the street the public will knock some sense into them eventually when they stop buying from them.

Those people who don't shop around (for whatever reason) are the ones they are in business for.


BTW: here in NJ regular has fallen to $2.87/G, Friday it was $2.91

[VASandy]

That is a pain, and I wouldn't go there even if they were cheaper on the highway out of principle. I also ignore the station that uses cash prices instead of credit prices on the sign near me.


Depends on the size of your tank. That would save me $0.90 to $1.44, I'm not going to go out of my way for a buck yet, since my time ma not be incredibly valuable; but it also isn't free.

The F250 holds about 35 gals. of diesel fuel. It's worth it!! ;)

[Knary50]

The F250 holds about 35 gals. of diesel fuel. It's worth it!! ;)

I guess they main thing is you have to do the math. .09 a gallon difference would net you about 3.15 or 1 gallon of fuel if you are completely empty. I am guessing you average around 17mpg or slightly better so as long as you are traveling less than 17 miles round trip then you are in the positive.
I had to figure out the same situation with my full size truck and determined I had to wait until the truck was under half a tank to justify thge cost of going 2 miles out of the way.

[Woussko]

I sure hope this thread doesn't get out of hand and have to be closed down.

As for getting a good price I just normally keep my eyes open and fill up if I see what seems to be a better than average price as long as the station is in route. As others have stated it's not worth going on a wild hunt to save less than $5 per tank full. What gets me is when there are several stations where people can see the pricing for all of them and yet the high price station is the busy one. If the cheaper ones where poorly run or off brand then I could see why, but in many cases they are name brand (sometimes the same brand) and are not trashy stations.

I have found in smaller cities or out in the country people are different and do price shop more.

[Woussko]

Thankfully today I see REGULAR has come down. $2.50/gallon is too high by today's pricing for my area. How nice it is to be able to eat a bowl of Hush Hound with what I don't have to pay for a tank full compared to late spring prices.

[garager]

We're at 2.19 a gal, I don't know what diesel cost is.

[Woussko]

I've seen Diesel at $2.799 and want to see it come down more.

Trick to make lower cost plus grade. 5 gallons of super and 10 of regular = 15 of plus and at most stations you save about $1.00 per fill up of a car. Many cars and light trucks that say they need premium will run fine on 2 parts super 93 and 1 part regular 87. I know it seems like a PITA to have to reset the pump but over time the savings pay off.

Around here most pumps have credit card scanners. Just do part 1 and finish, then wait about 15 seconds and do part 2.

Lucky me can use regular 87. Now if only I could run E85 in my vehicles. That's only about $2.239 per gallon and soon it will be under $2.25 / gallon. I have heard it doesn't produce the power of gasoline so I doubt a gallon goes as far either.

[Bob D.]

$1.93 here yesterday. That's the lowest since Jan 13, 2007. How do I know? I've logged every gallon of gas purchased for my truck since 5/5/05.