Is there a doctor in the forum

[AFM]

Is there a doctor in the forum as I want some advice on my shoulder and upper arm, I fell over onto my upper right arm today and now find it really hurts to rise right arm and am wondering have I torn a ligament in my upper right arm or a muscle or worse my shoulder itself and has anyone else had this problem and what did they do about it and how long they were off work.

Tony

[VASandy]

AFM, I'm no doctor! I don't think any doctor would pretend to be able to diagnose an injury on a forum. The only advice I'd give is to go seek a clinic and get your shoulder and arm looked at by a professional. If you don't have insurance, most clinics will be able to work with you on payment. Don't let money worries keep you from getting help with the injury. You may have done serious damage that could cause you to lose the arm. That may seem dire, but it can happen. Please, AFM, go see a doctor!

[PLUMBER RICK]

joey doesn't like when i give medical and legal advise:eek:

that's what her brothers are for:D

i'm sure she will read it and talk to her brother for you;)

rick.

[garager]

I have torn a ligament before, cartilages too. It hurts like fricking crazy, now go see a Doctor. I once had to finish building a house with torn cartilages in my left knee. For 3 months, popping pills like crazy to get past the pain, I was on a contract and no time to stop, no one to replace me. When I finished the build, I was in surgery 3 days after the final payment. Climbing scaffolding and ladders 6 days after surgery, wasn't the smartest thing to do, but we need to feed our family. I was fully recovered on that one in about a year, because I didn't rest, dumb.....

[Masterplumb]

Doesn't Australia have state run (socialized) medicine ? Is it that bad that you cant get a Dr. to look at it? If that's the case, pay attention people, thats what is coming here with President Barack Hussein Obama.

[HVAC HAWK]

where is greg [ Drain Medic ] when you need a medic :eek:

i had a pain like yours and i had to have my rotator cuff fixed and it will take 5 to 6 months before i have full use of my arm again

[jrsaltz]

I'm a Plumbologist.....maybe I can help.:D

[NHMaster3015]

I'm not a doctor but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
Take two percodans and a 1/2 a bottle of Jack. Call me in the morning.

[HVAC HAWK]

I'm not a doctor but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
Take two percodans and a 1/2 a bottle of Jack. Call me in the morning.

hay im now plumber but i stayed there also :rotflmao1:

[stokefire7]

i have visited dr. jack

[stokefire7]

AFM, I'm no doctor! I don't think any doctor would pretend to be able to diagnose an injury on a forum. The only advice I'd give is to go seek a clinic and get your shoulder and arm looked at by a professional. If you don't have insurance, most clinics will be able to work with you on payment. Don't let money worries keep you from getting help with the injury. You may have done serious damage that could cause you to lose the arm. That may seem dire, but it can happen. Please, AFM, go see a doctor!of course you mean licensed professional

[AFM]

Doesn't Australia have state run (socialized) medicine ? Is it that bad that you cant get a Dr. to look at it? If that's the case, pay attention people, thats what is coming here with President Barack Hussein Obama.


I went and had an operation on my shoulder key hole surgery on something called a roto cuff and as it was a emergency medicare payed for it, and if this is socialism where all contribute for the well being of everyone then I am fore it, I hear it is everyone for himself in the U.Sand only the rich are admitted to hospital I have been reading threads on Barack Obama and your views and thank Christ you don`t live live in Australia.
I would like to ask this question is because Obama is black that you don`t like him because that is the way it comes across.

Tony

[NHMaster3015]

I went and had an operation on my shoulder key hole surgery on something called a roto cuff and as it was a emergency medicare payed for it, and if this is socialism where all contribute for the well being of everyone then I am fore it, I hear it is everyone for himself in the U.Sand only the rich are admitted to hospital I have been reading threads on Barack Obama and your views and thank Christ you don`t live live in Australia.
I would like to ask this question is because Obama is black that you don`t like him because that is the way it comes across.

Tony

We can arque socialized medicine for the next six months and not reach a consensus. I will say however that as bad as you may think our system is sick people come from all over the world to be healed here, because we have the very best hospitals and doctors in the world. If not for my cardiologist I would not be here now. 6 months ago I had arterial blockages (7) and was fortunate enough to have the countries best heart surgeon do my by-passes (7) He also did David Letterman's. His sucess rate is 99.7. Amazing doctor. In 6 weeks I was back to work and today I feel 25 years younger and am doing things that I've not done for years.

Lets address Mr. Obama. I hope, truley hope that no one is bashing this guy because he is black. You don't have to get racial to dislike this guy and his politics. Check his record in congress and the Illinois congress. In the time he's been in both he has accomplished absolutly NOTHING. That's right NOTHING. This man, though a charismatic speaker, truley has no solutions, no experiance and nothing to say other than to spew out the word Change every other sentence. Change is good I guess, but WHAT CHANGE? He has no plan and no direction. He is currently back pedeling on his promis to get us out of Irac. His economic policy would drive us back the Jimmy Carter miserey index days. In short the man just plain lacks the experiance to handle the job.
Black has nothing to do with it.

[NHMaster3015]

Oh yes, one more thing. I am a high school teacher.
Though the pay is good, no one would say "Rich"

[Masterplumb]

I went and had an operation on my shoulder key hole surgery on something called a roto cuff and as it was a emergency medicare payed for it, and if this is socialism where all contribute for the well being of everyone then I am fore it, I hear it is everyone for himself in the U.Sand only the rich are admitted to hospital I have been reading threads on Barack Obama and your views and thank Christ you don`t live live in Australia.
I would like to ask this question is because Obama is black that you don`t like him because that is the way it comes across.

Tony

I agree. I thank God I live in the USA everyday.

Actually you have it all wrong my friend. If you go to the emergency room, you will see many many many people that do not speak English and do not have insurance. You see there is a law here that states that you cant be refused service because you dont have health insurance. As far as other health issues there is a program here in place already its called medicare and medic-aid that insures the elderly and the less fortunate. So maybe you need to go back and read some more about the U.S.

As far as you calling me a racist, show me where I once mentioned race? You can't because I didnt you jackass. Instead of accusing ME of things like that why don't you look in the mirror, as it's probably you who is the racist. I see Barack Obama as a liberal, YOU see him as a black man. Now go throw a boomerang, play some AC/DC and have a Fosters.

[HVAC HAWK]

i had the same surgery as you and it takes a long time to before you can use your arm again .this happened on the job so workers comp paid 100% for it ,if it did not happen at work my reg insurance would have paid a very large part of the bill

[NHMaster3015]

I agree. I thank God I live in the USA everyday.

Actually you have it all wrong my friend. If you go to the emergency room, you will see many many many people that do not speak English and do not have insurance. You see there is a law here that states that you cant be refused service because you dont have health insurance. As far as other health issues there is a program here in place already its called medicare and medic-aid that insures the elderly and the less fortunate. So maybe you need to go back and read some more about the U.S.

As far as you calling me a racist, show me where I once mentioned race? You can't because I didnt you jackass. Instead of accusing ME of things like that why don't you look in the mirror, as it's probably you who is the racist. I see Barack Obama as a liberal, YOU see him as a black man. Now go throw a boomerang, play some AC/DC and have a Fosters.

This is not the first AFM post slamming the US. It's unfortunate and typical though to get abuse from those that have not lived here and get their information from a liberal minded press. Obama, win or loose will be either touted as the first black man to become president, or as having lost because he is black. Either way it will be that same liberal press that places the label. Why? because if you really think about how liberals treat minorities you will see that it is they that are the true racists. Remember it was Abraham Lincoln, a Republican that freed the slaves. It is republicans that want to see minorities succeed in this country through education and hard work, not welfare handouts and affermitative action programs that keep minorities in the ghetto's. Liberals tell minorities that they can't succeed without help from the government (welfare) conservatives let minorities persue their dreams and goals.

Liberalism is a desease that is slowly eating away at the fabric of society.

[AFM]

I agree. I thank God I live in the USA everyday.

Actually you have it all wrong my friend. If you go to the emergency room, you will see many many many people that do not speak English and do not have insurance. You see there is a law here that states that you cant be refused service because you dont have health insurance. As far as other health issues there is a program here in place already its called medicare and medic-aid that insures the elderly and the less fortunate. So maybe you need to go back and read some more about the U.S.

As far as you calling me a racist, show me where I once mentioned race? You can't because I didnt you jackass. Instead of accusing ME of things like that why don't you look in the mirror, as it's probably you who is the racist. I see Barack Obama as a liberal, YOU see him as a black man. Now go throw a boomerang, play some AC/DC and have a Fosters.

Manipulating of the English language and calling me names just shows it.

Tony

[AFM]

This is not the first AFM post slamming the US. It's unfortunate and typical though to get abuse from those that have not lived here and get their information from a liberal minded press. Obama, win or loose will be either touted as the first black man to become president, or as having lost because he is black. Either way it will be that same liberal press that places the label. Why? because if you really think about how liberals treat minorities you will see that it is they that are the true racists. Remember it was Abraham Lincoln, a Republican that freed the slaves. It is republicans that want to see minorities succeed in this country through education and hard work, not welfare handouts and affermitative action programs that keep minorities in the ghetto's. Liberals tell minorities that they can't succeed without help from the government (welfare) conservatives let minorities persue their dreams and goals.

Liberalism is a desease that is slowly eating away at the fabric of society.

So every time I have an opinion on the U.S. or any other subject that that you don`t agree with I am accused by of slamming the U.S. well so be it that is my right under a free democracy and even yours, freedom of speech is not just a word.

Tony

[Masterplumb]

Manipulating of the English language and calling me names just shows it.

Tony

I guess calling me a racist is not considered name calling?

You are on a forum asking medical advice from strangers that are not in the medical profession? Why not go to one of your great "clinics" that will take care of you for "free"?

If socialized medicine is the answer then why did Senator Ted Kennedy go to Duke University for his diagnosis and surgery, why didnt he go to a clinic for his medical needs? Why didnt he fly to France, England, Australia etc. to get operated on? Why do people from other country's come here to pay for surgery when they can get it for free in their own? I think you know the answer.

[Masterplumb]

So every time I have an opinion on the U.S. or any other subject that that you don`t agree with I am accused by of slamming the U.S. well so be it that is my right under a free democracy and even yours, freedom of speech is not just a word.

Tony

You are slamming our country, you are allowed to, thats what makes our country great. Maybe you should take care of Australia's problems before you decide to solve the USA's problems.

[JCsPlumbing]

This may or may not be right or on the subject. But I would love to go to Australia.

The reason is that I can't think of one thing that they creatively work to contribute to the world.

Where do you think the term, "No worries Mate" came from?:D

Hoope tha werds arnt tooo biig AFM.:cool:

J.C.

[tinmack]

This may or may not be right or on the subject. But I would love to go to Australia.

The reason is that I can't think of one thing that they creatively work to contribute to the world.

Where do you think the term, "No worries Mate" came from?:D

Hoope tha werds arnt tooo biig AFM.:cool:

J.C.


A quick Google search shows the United States exported over 19 billion worth of goods to Australia in 2007.

You realize, I'm sure, that exports have increased since the free trade agreement between the US and Australia came into effect in 2005. Plus, Australia was in Iraq fighting with the United States from 2003 to 2008.

So......I'd say they're contributing something to the United States at least.........

[JCsPlumbing]

I knew they were in Iraq. Didn't know about our exports though.

But.... what do they produce???

J.C.

[tinmack]

I knew they were in Iraq. Didn't know about our exports though.

But.... what do they produce???

J.C.


Well, they produce 24% of the world's uranium - biggest producer in the world. If the US decides to up their nuclear output in the future, they might have a use for this. There might be other things of note that Australia produces, you can do a search.

Sometimes it's imports and not exports that are most important to a country. You have a computer, so take some time to Google/MSN search the answers to your questions.

There's been a lot of talk about oil in the news, and on the forum, but the following link might be a surprise to yourself and others when you look at where your oil comes from.....

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

[JCsPlumbing]

Not much there.

[NHMaster3015]

Australia's armies have stood shoulder to shoulder with ours for generations now. A proud and glorious history of fighting for democracy. I've never been to Australia and certainly know little if nothing of their politics, but I am glad that they are our allies.

[tinmack]

Not much there.

Basically it illustrates that oil comes from a lot of countries that people may be unaware of. Just as most people think the United States gets all their oil from OPEC nations, whereas in reality they do not.

In essence, other countries, such as Australia, produce and export products, whether you, I, or anybody else is aware of it.

[woodenstickers]

This is not the first AFM post slamming the US. It's unfortunate and typical though to get abuse from those that have not lived here and get their information from a liberal minded press. Obama, win or loose will be either touted as the first black man to become president, or as having lost because he is black. Either way it will be that same liberal press that places the label. Why? because if you really think about how liberals treat minorities you will see that it is they that are the true racists. Remember it was Abraham Lincoln, a Republican that freed the slaves. It is republicans that want to see minorities succeed in this country through education and hard work, not welfare handouts and affermitative action programs that keep minorities in the ghetto's. Liberals tell minorities that they can't succeed without help from the government (welfare) conservatives let minorities persue their dreams and goals.

Liberalism is a desease that is slowly eating away at the fabric of society.


Ahhh, well. I see a straw man or red herring and I gotta fall for it. When Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, they were the liberal party and Democrats were the conservative party. The parties underwent massive switches at several points in history and have basically changed poles completely from Lincolns time. Whether you want to get into the question of which party Lincoln's values most closely represent in todays Dem/Rep or not, claiming emancipation as a Republican value is based on name alone and either misinformed or dishonest.

Simplifying the liberal message to say that liberals as a whole think minorities need welfare because they can't compete is bull. If you really believe that you are not as sharp as your posts make you sound. The welfare state has enough REAL issues, and Liberals have enough REAL targets to shoot at without making ludicrous statements.

I agree with a lot of what you say, and it is well presented, but cripes man. Give up the BS. It shouldn't be necessary if you feel you are right.



Eli

[tinmack]

Dammit Stickers.....there you go again with the truth. What the hell is the matter with you????

Now why don't you go through all the threads here and correct all the other incorrect beliefs/postings/justifications......

Take a week....




Yeah, yer right, gonna need more than a week.

Now go put on that flag pin or there's no way you can run for President.

[NHMaster3015]

Ahhh, well. I see a straw man or red herring and I gotta fall for it. When Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, they were the liberal party and Democrats were the conservative party. The parties underwent massive switches at several points in history and have basically changed poles completely from Lincolns time. Whether you want to get into the question of which party Lincoln's values most closely represent in todays Dem/Rep or not, claiming emancipation as a Republican value is based on name alone and either misinformed or dishonest.

Simplifying the liberal message to say that liberals as a whole think minorities need welfare because they can't compete is bull. If you really believe that you are not as sharp as your posts make you sound. The welfare state has enough REAL issues, and Liberals have enough REAL targets to shoot at without making ludicrous statements.

I agree with a lot of what you say, and it is well presented, but cripes man. Give up the BS. It shouldn't be necessary if you feel you are right.



Eli

Well, maybe so. But is'nt that what we do? Take things out of context, manipulate the facts to serve our needs? And hell, might as well have some fun at the same time. do I believe Obama really thinks there;s 57 states? Of course not, he miss-spoke. But what I do notice is that the press will give the faux pas little or no coverage where if Mr. Bush mispronounces nuclear, it's good for three days of wall to wall coverage. It's haow we run campaigns now. The issues, the true facts have little to do with anything, anymore. It's all about perception. I like to compare the primaries to American Idol. It does'nt matter if you can sing well, you only have to sing pretty well as long as you are good looking and perform well in front of the cameras.

Any way, Bud, thanks for raining on my parade:D

[ToUtahNow]

Before I get too far off track I injured my shoulder 3-years ago and now have what is called a frozen shoulder. I cannot lift my arm above my shoulder and it is easily injured. I have another surgery scheduled but I am not sure when it will happen. The original injury was a broken clavicle and shoulder from a ladder accident.

Our medical is second to none and even non-residents are given emergency care. There are clinics for the uninsured but you have to wait in lines similar to what I have been told happens in Canada. The reason I bring up non-residents is a young lady who grew up in our home moved to Australia and married an Australian man. When she went to the hospital for a C-section she had no insurance as her citizenship papers were not complete. They had to pay for the delivery themselves. This is basically what happens in the States as well but no one ever collect the money.

I have several Uranium mines across the highway from my place in Utah but they were all closed because the Uranium in Canada is so plentiful. However, I have heard there is currently an effort to start up both the gold mines and the Uranium mines in my area of Utah.

Mark

[Masterplumb]

Ahhh, well. I see a straw man or red herring and I gotta fall for it. When Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, they were the liberal party and Democrats were the conservative party. The parties underwent massive switches at several points in history and have basically changed poles completely from Lincolns time. Whether you want to get into the question of which party Lincoln's values most closely represent in todays Dem/Rep or not, claiming emancipation as a Republican value is based on name alone and either misinformed or dishonest.

Simplifying the liberal message to say that liberals as a whole think minorities need welfare because they can't compete is bull. If you really believe that you are not as sharp as your posts make you sound. The welfare state has enough REAL issues, and Liberals have enough REAL targets to shoot at without making ludicrous statements.

I agree with a lot of what you say, and it is well presented, but cripes man. Give up the BS. It shouldn't be necessary if you feel you are right.



Eli

Not so fast Eli. Your statement about the Democrat and Republican parties are not exactly 100% true. The 1964 Civil Rights Act was Filibustered by a majority of DEMOCRATS. It was Robert Byrd (D) who led
the way on the Filibuster. Also in on that was Al Gore Sr.

Heres the way the parties voted. It looks to me the Republicans were more after equality then were the Dems.
By party

The original House version:[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#cite_note-King-6)

Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)
The Senate version:[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#cite_note-King-6)

Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)
The Senate version, voted on by the House:[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#cite_note-King-6)

Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)


Heres the link to the whole Civil Rights Act of 1964 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

[woodenstickers]

Not so fast Eli. Your statement about the Democrat and Republican parties are not exactly 100% true. The 1964 Civil Rights Act was Filibustered by a majority of DEMOCRATS. It was Robert Byrd (D) who led
the way on the Filibuster. Also in on that was Al Gore Sr.

Heres the way the parties voted. It looks to me the Republicans were more after equality then were the Dems.
By party

The original House version:[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#cite_note-King-6)

Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)
The Senate version:[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#cite_note-King-6)

Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)
The Senate version, voted on by the House:[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#cite_note-King-6)

Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)


Heres the link to the whole Civil Rights Act of 1964 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

I'm not EVEN going to take on the question of which party is more or less racist/for civil rights. That isn't one I care to touch. I was just correcting the Lincoln thing.

After this primary any Dem would be hard pressed to claim racial harmony in the party. I used to respect Bill Clinton (somewhat), but after some of the things he said in the last few months, not at all anymore. And those were registered Democrats that they were quoting saying things about how they would never vote for a n-----. It runs through each party and whichever one can claim the least win no points from me.

But ah hell, just to have some fun with you guys like NHMaster said, I wonder which party it will be to have the first viable non-white male presidential candidate run?:D

BTW I am NOT a Democrat. If there were more loopy libs on here arguing about how high gas prices are good and 9/11 was an inside job I'd be just as active there. Not a lot of them on a tool forum. I guess they are all...um...wait, I can get this...sipping their latte frappubinos and trying to figure out how long till they can take the next step to legalize human/pet marriage, or busy washing their tie-dyed Che shirts with organic patchouli detergent? In a Cafe!

Just kidding. We all know hippies don't wash their shirts. But seriously, again, doesn't clouding the debate with nonsense really harm the political process and therefore the country? :shrug:



Eli



PS Opals, Platypi, Dundee, Elle Macpherson...all kinds of useful stuff comes from Down Under!

[woodenstickers]

NHMaster3015Well, maybe so. But is'nt that what we do? Take things out of context, manipulate the facts to serve our needs? And hell, might as well have some fun at the same time. do I believe Obama really thinks there;s 57 states? Of course not, he miss-spoke. But what I do notice is that the press will give the faux pas little or no coverage where if Mr. Bush mispronounces nuclear, it's good for three days of wall to wall coverage.

If this is true, do we then fight fire with fire? I mean, I don't know...I'd be lying if I said all the spinning in an internet forum amounts to much more than an irritation in it's real power to do harm. I guess I just don't want to buy into the medias bullshit machine by a. being distracted by it b. feeding in my own bullshit to try to counteract it or c. letting it determine how politics are discussed among rational people. Maybe I'm dreaming, but I know that there is NO way we will get them to stop if we feed into it and let it become our actual culture.


It's haow we run campaigns now. The issues, the true facts have little to do with anything, anymore. It's all about perception. I like to compare the primaries to American Idol. It does'nt matter if you can sing well, you only have to sing pretty well as long as you are good looking and perform well in front of the cameras.

I used to argue that video games and TV being violent were a reflection of society and not a cause of behavior (back when I was a teenager listening to gangster rap and against the world), but seeing how the media had changed even in my young adult life, and seeing how that has changed the public AND the government proves to me that it is not just powerful, but all powerful.

Any way, Bud, thanks for raining on my parade:D

Sorry. This response probably won't dry out the marching band!:nyaa-nyaa4:



Eli

[Masterplumb]

I'm not EVEN going to take on the question of which party is more or less racist/for civil rights. That isn't one I care to touch. I was just correcting the Lincoln thing.

After this primary any Dem would be hard pressed to claim racial harmony in the party. I used to respect Bill Clinton (somewhat), but after some of the things he said in the last few months, not at all anymore. And those were registered Democrats that they were quoting saying things about how they would never vote for a n-----. It runs through each party and whichever one can claim the least win no points from me.

But ah hell, just to have some fun with you guys like NHMaster said, I wonder which party it will be to have the first viable non-white male presidential candidate run?:D

BTW I am NOT a Democrat. If there were more loopy libs on here arguing about how high gas prices are good and 9/11 was an inside job I'd be just as active there. Not a lot of them on a tool forum. I guess they are all...um...wait, I can get this...sipping their latte frappubinos and trying to figure out how long till they can take the next step to legalize human/pet marriage, or busy washing their tie-dyed Che shirts with organic patchouli detergent? In a Cafe!

Just kidding. We all know hippies don't wash their shirts. But seriously, again, doesn't clouding the debate with nonsense really harm the political process and therefore the country? :shrug:



Eli



PS Opals, Platypi, Dundee, Elle Macpherson...all kinds of useful stuff comes from Down Under!

You may want to stay away from that issue, but you opened the can of worms with the Lincoln Democrat/Republican issue.

I never said useful stuff never came from Australia. I have a few friends from down under. i like Fosters, AC/DC and can actually throw a boomerang. G'day mate.

[NHMaster3015]

But, what are you gonna do? In a world where more than 1/2 of young adults get all the news from the Daily Show, and worse yet believe it. It makes my head spin.
As for violent video games being a reflection of a violent society. Not really. What they are is a reflection of self indulgent, parents too damn lazy to interact with and control their children.

Here's some advice for parents, from someone that sees them 8 hrs a day.

Get off your *** and find out what your kid is doing.
Limit the time and exposure your kid has to the internet
Limit the time and tye of video games your kid plays
Listen to what he or she has downloaded to their I pod.
Take away their damned cell phone.
Check their homework and progress in school, daily.
Eat dinner with them
Take them exploring
Nurture and encourage them, show them a world outside some damned electronic device.
kids are a sponge, be very carefull what they soak up.

Yes it's work, a lot more work than conceiving them was.

[Masterplumb]

NHMaster3015Well, maybe so. But is'nt that what we do? Take things out of context, manipulate the facts to serve our needs? And hell, might as well have some fun at the same time. do I believe Obama really thinks there;s 57 states? Of course not, he miss-spoke. But what I do notice is that the press will give the faux pas little or no coverage where if Mr. Bush mispronounces nuclear, it's good for three days of wall to wall coverage.

If this is true, do we then fight fire with fire? I mean, I don't know...I'd be lying if I said all the spinning in an internet forum amounts to much more than an irritation in it's real power to do harm. I guess I just don't want to buy into the medias bullshit machine by a. being distracted by it b. feeding in my own bullshit to try to counteract it or c. letting it determine how politics are discussed among rational people. Maybe I'm dreaming, but I know that there is NO way we will get them to stop if we feed into it and let it become our actual culture.


It's haow we run campaigns now. The issues, the true facts have little to do with anything, anymore. It's all about perception. I like to compare the primaries to American Idol. It does'nt matter if you can sing well, you only have to sing pretty well as long as you are good looking and perform well in front of the cameras.

I used to argue that video games and TV being violent were a reflection of society and not a cause of behavior (back when I was a teenager listening to gangster rap and against the world), but seeing how the media had changed even in my young adult life, and seeing how that has changed the public AND the government proves to me that it is not just powerful, but all powerful.

Any way, Bud, thanks for raining on my parade:D

Sorry. This response probably won't dry out the marching band!:nyaa-nyaa4:



Eli

No offense Eli, but I cant picture you being down with the C.P.T. blasting Straight Outta Compton and 100 miles and running!:jumping:

[woodenstickers]

But, what are you gonna do? In a world where more than 1/2 of young adults get all the news from the Daily Show, and worse yet believe it. It makes my head spin.
As for violent video games being a reflection of a violent society. Not really. What they are is a reflection of self indulgent, parents too damn lazy to interact with and control their children.

Here's some advice for parents, from someone that sees them 8 hrs a day.

Get off your *** and find out what your kid is doing.
Limit the time and exposure your kid has to the internet
Limit the time and tye of video games your kid plays
Listen to what he or she has downloaded to their I pod.
Take away their damned cell phone.
Check their homework and progress in school, daily.
Eat dinner with them
Take them exploring
Nurture and encourage them, show them a world outside some damned electronic device.
kids are a sponge, be very carefull what they soak up.

Yes it's work, a lot more work than conceiving them was.

Exactly! It is the parents and ONLY the parents who have responsibility for their kids.

I agree 100% I don't blame the games or media for the effect they can have on society, I just now believe that they do have an effect. Same with our little subject, I don't blame talk radio or comedy central, I blame the adults who let it mold their ideas and even worse their way of thinking on and discussing of the issues. That's you and me.


Eli

[woodenstickers]

No offense Eli, but I cant picture you being down with the C.P.T. blasting Straight Outta Compton and 100 miles and running!:jumping:

None taken! I won't say that having an angel face and hot and cold running vocabulary didn't keep me out of a lot of consequences for my actions when I was younger. :D

[woodenstickers]

You may want to stay away from that issue, but you opened the can of worms with the Lincoln Democrat/Republican issue.

I never said useful stuff never came from Australia. I have a few friends from down under. i like Fosters, AC/DC and can actually throw a boomerang. G'day mate.

I was responding to the implications of claiming Lincoln as a Republican as if it were congruent to todays Republican Party. And someone else said that Australia had no useful exports. I honestly don't think my list qualifies anyway!

Look, I am not completely above the fray here. I used to engage in the tit for tat battles online and the one up arguments. I earned my stripes in those battles. I was goooood at it too. Shut down many a craigslist rants and raves thread ;) But I realized that I was full of it a lot of the time, trying to win the argument instead of trying to figure out what it real and what the hell is happening to the country. I want to have kids. I don't want them to grow up dealing with Limbaugh vs Rosie as their political compass any more than I want them to have Britany or emenem as their moral compass. It's got to start somewhere.


Eli

[stxrus]

with NO disrespect to ANYONE:

arguing politics on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. even IF you win, you're still retarded.

extremists on both sidea are what is wrong with this country and every other country in the world.

steve

[NHMaster3015]

with NO disrespect to ANYONE:

arguing politics on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. even IF you win, you're still retarded.

extremists on both sidea are what is wrong with this country and every other country in the world.

steve

:bravo::bravo:

[cpw]

But, what are you gonna do? In a world where more than 1/2 of young adults get all the news from the Daily Show, and worse yet believe it.
I'm gonna step up and defend the Daily Show. Unlike most news shows Jon Stewart doesn't pretend he is unbiased. He also often calls out ridiculousness on both sides. I know he is liberal, but as a conservative I can still enjoy watching his show. Also, I think the interviews on the Daily Show are far better than most any other news show. Jon Stewart asks a question, and then waits for an answer. He doesn't cut off the answer either, and there is an actual communication of ideas going on.

[ToUtahNow]

I'm gonna step up and defend the Daily Show. Unlike most news shows Jon Stewart doesn't pretend he is unbiased. He also often calls out ridiculousness on both sides. I know he is liberal, but as a conservative I can still enjoy watching his show. Also, I think the interviews on the Daily Show are far better than most any other news show. Jon Stewart asks a question, and then waits for an answer. He doesn't cut off the answer either, and there is an actual communication of ideas going on.

I understand what you are saying but I believe we need to remember which shows are really "news" shows and which are entertainment.

Mark

[NHMaster3015]

I'm gonna step up and defend the Daily Show. Unlike most news shows Jon Stewart doesn't pretend he is unbiased. He also often calls out ridiculousness on both sides. I know he is liberal, but as a conservative I can still enjoy watching his show. Also, I think the interviews on the Daily Show are far better than most any other news show. Jon Stewart asks a question, and then waits for an answer. He doesn't cut off the answer either, and there is an actual communication of ideas going on.

I have to agree, the show is brilliant. What bugs me though is that ther are truley people that believe this the real news. Guess they don't get the point.

[AFM]

i had the same surgery as you and it takes a long time to before you can use your arm again .this happened on the job so workers comp paid 100% for it ,if it did not happen at work my reg insurance would have paid a very large part of the bill

I would like to thank you for your imput on my shoulder as you are the only one to answer some of the questions I wanted to know from someone that has gone through this. I am amazed you are the only one to do so out of all the so called plumbers on this forum.
I don`t have full worker comp and will have my right arm in a sling for a couple of weeks and then have to take in easy, it is a learning experience trying to use my left hand for everything.

Tony

[AFM]

Before I get too far off track I injured my shoulder 3-years ago and now have what is called a frozen shoulder. I cannot lift my arm above my shoulder and it is easily injured. I have another surgery scheduled but I am not sure when it will happen. The original injury was a broken clavicle and shoulder from a ladder accident.

Our medical is second to none and even non-residents are given emergency care. There are clinics for the uninsured but you have to wait in lines similar to what I have been told happens in Canada. The reason I bring up non-residents is a young lady who grew up in our home moved to Australia and married an Australian man. When she went to the hospital for a C-section she had no insurance as her citizenship papers were not complete. They had to pay for the delivery themselves. This is basically what happens in the States as well but no one ever collect the money.

I have several Uranium mines across the highway from my place in Utah but they were all closed because the Uranium in Canada is so plentiful. However, I have heard there is currently an effort to start up both the gold mines and the Uranium mines in my area of Utah.

Mark

It is amazing out of 40 odd threads only a couple responded to my shoulder problem and all I wanted was some imput because trying to get an answer from a doctor was like pulling teeth, but our egoes took over and went in every other direction you can imagine, so thanks for your imput Mark and whoever else as I couldn`t get on last night as the forum must have been done or I was censored.???

Tony

Tony

[gear junkie]

It is amazing out of 40 odd threads only a couple responded to my shoulder problem and all I wanted was some imput because trying to get an answer from a doctor was like pulling teeth, but our egoes took over and went in every other direction you can imagine, so thanks for your imput Mark and whoever else as I couldn`t get on last night as the forum must have been done or I was censored.???

Tony

TonyWhy are you so critical? You seem to carry a chip on your shoulder(no pun intended). No one intially attacked you but they wanted you to see a doctor. Same thing when a diy ask advice. We generally tell them to call a plumber.

[cpw]

Why are you so critical? You seem to carry a chip on your shoulder(no pun intended). No one intially attacked you but they wanted you to see a doctor. Same thing when a diy ask advice. We generally tell them to call a plumber.
I originally thought he might have been posting as a joke along the lines of "Why would you call a doctor when you can ask online?", but substituting doctor for plumber.

[Masterplumb]

with NO disrespect to ANYONE:

arguing politics on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. even IF you win, you're still retarded.

extremists on both sidea are what is wrong with this country and every other country in the world.

steve

Which country are you talking about?

[Masterplumb]

I'm gonna step up and defend the Daily Show. Unlike most news shows Jon Stewart doesn't pretend he is unbiased. He also often calls out ridiculousness on both sides. I know he is liberal, but as a conservative I can still enjoy watching his show. Also, I think the interviews on the Daily Show are far better than most any other news show. Jon Stewart asks a question, and then waits for an answer. He doesn't cut off the answer either, and there is an actual communication of ideas going on.

Dont forget that many times on the conservative shows (fox news) when they interview a liberal and ask a question, very rarely do you get a DIRECT answer, then they start rambling on about GW Bush and change the subject.

[Masterplumb]

I would like to thank you for your imput on my shoulder as you are the only one to answer some of the questions I wanted to know from someone that has gone through this. I am amazed you are the only one to do so out of all the so called plumbers on this forum.
I don`t have full worker comp and will have my right arm in a sling for a couple of weeks and then have to take in easy, it is a learning experience trying to use my left hand for everything.

Tony

You are calling some of us "so called plumbers" and you are the one without "worker comp"? :confused:

[Masterplumb]

It is amazing out of 40 odd threads only a couple responded to my shoulder problem and all I wanted was some imput because trying to get an answer from a doctor was like pulling teeth, but our egoes took over and went in every other direction you can imagine, so thanks for your imput Mark and whoever else as I couldn`t get on last night as the forum must have been done or I was censored.???

Tony

Tony

How can you not get a straight answer from a doctor? What kind of doctor do you see?:confused:

[ridgidpipe]

with NO disrespect to ANYONE:

arguing politics on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. even IF you win, you're still retarded.

extremists on both sidea are what is wrong with this country and every other country in the world.

steve

Hey now I find this post kinda Offensive as I compete in the special Olympics

[stxrus]

Hey now I find this post kinda Offensive as I compete in the special Olympics

and you live in Medina? oh my word.

steve

[NHMaster3015]

It is amazing out of 40 odd threads only a couple responded to my shoulder problem and all I wanted was some imput because trying to get an answer from a doctor was like pulling teeth, but our egoes took over and went in every other direction you can imagine, so thanks for your imput Mark and whoever else as I couldn`t get on last night as the forum must have been done or I was censored.???

Tony

Tony

Just to be totally fair here. We are plumbers, not doctors. I'm pretty sure most advised you to go see one.

[cpw]

Dont forget that many times on the conservative shows (fox news) when they interview a liberal and ask a question, very rarely do you get a DIRECT answer, then they start rambling on about GW Bush and change the subject.
I know that you often have a question like "Why does Obama want to raise taxes" and you get an answer like "G.W.B. lied about Iraq". But I think even when there is fair questioning on both liberal and conservative news shows, the vast majority of hosts cut off the guests and make it abut them rather than the guest. Jon Stewart doesn't do that, regardless of whether the guest is a liberal or conservative.

[ToUtahNow]

The funny part is when the "liberals" tried a talk channel of their own (Air America Radio) there were hosts (Janeane Garofalo) who refused to let the public call in or have guests because they did not want to have to debate their positions. Hopefully the Greens can bring some life back to them after the bankruptcy.

Mark

[cpw]

How can you not get a straight answer from a doctor? What kind of doctor do you see?:confused:
There are crappy doctors here where you can't get a straight answer. The nice thing about it is that you can take your business elsewhere. I personally prefer a doctor who takes the time to explain things to me, and believes that I can actually understand what is going on. My endocrinologist, my wife's first OB, and our first and current pediatrician all fit the bill as good doctors. Unfortunately when we moved we had to start over finding good doctors, and my wife's second OB was pretty crappy.

[Service Guy]

Just to be totally fair here. We are plumbers, not doctors. I'm pretty sure most advised you to go see one.

Its bad enough all the people asking for free plumbing advice here. But imo, asking for medical advice from strangers on the internet is just wacko.:speechless:

[Masterplumb]

There are crappy doctors here where you can't get a straight answer. The nice thing about it is that you can take your business elsewhere. I personally prefer a doctor who takes the time to explain things to me, and believes that I can actually understand what is going on. My endocrinologist, my wife's first OB, and our first and current pediatrician all fit the bill as good doctors. Unfortunately when we moved we had to start over finding good doctors, and my wife's second OB was pretty crappy.

Well thats exactly my point. If you are not happy with your doctor then change them. If the o.p. is under some sort of socialized medicine and cant go to a different doctor, well how good is it? This is the biggest point I think most people dont understand about socialized "anything".

[woodenstickers]

Well thats exactly my point. If you are not happy with your doctor then change them. If the o.p. is under some sort of socialized medicine and cant go to a different doctor, well how good is it? This is the biggest point I think most people dont understand about socialized "anything".

Here we go again!!:bash:

My mom lives in Canada. A few years ago she was having problems with her blood pressure rising and dropping. We didn't know it at the time but she had a tumor on her thyroid. Very uncommon. Anyway, her doctor put her on blood pressure medication and it didn't really help. I was up there visiting and we were driving in Vancouver, not near where she lives, when she started to feel her heart beat really hard, so I pulled over and there was a clinic in a mall. She showed her Social Insurance card, the equivalent of a SS card here, and the doctor saw her right away and gave her something to help her BP drop back to normal. After she was okay he asked her what her doctor had told her and gave her his diagnosis, suggesting that she get her thyroid checked.

Later that night she woke me up and was feeling ill again. Now this was terrifying to me, my mom is one tough salt and I never saw her sick before. She actually walked around on a broken foot for a whole day thinking it would go away one time, So I was terrified to see her like this. I took her to an emergency room and a doctor saw her withing ten minutes. Anyway, to speed this story along, she got a second opinion when we got home, had all the different tests that all four doctors recommended, they found the tumor, benign, removed it and she is back to kicking *** again. Didn't pay one cent. Didn't wait on any waiting lists. Didn't have to deal with any insurance companies.

My only experience with an emergency room here was when I severed two tendons in my hand removing a window. I was driven to the ER here in the Bay Area and waited in the waiting room for two hours before they even gave me the damned paperwork to fill out. The "doctor" asked a nurse to look at my hand and accepted his diagnosis that there was no internal damage and the nurse stitched me up while telling me that he sees worse stuff than my hand all the time. They told me to go back to work. I told them I had a 200lb window to install and asked if my stitches would be okay to lift with. They said yes.

I did, the rest of the tendons that were nearly cut through by the glass popped when I lifted the window and I couldn't move my finger. Back to the ER. 2 more hours. different doctor, same nurse. Yes I need a plastic surgeon to do the surgery, wait here. I waited for another hour or two before I finally asked a nurse walking by when the surgeon would be coming because I had to arrange to get my jobsite shut down. Oh, we don't do that here, you have to make an appointment. Off they walk. Because of their delay i couldn't even find an appointment with a surgeon until monday, this was friday afternoon by this point. The surgeon told me that if they had figured it out BEFORE my tendons snapped it would have been no big deal instead of two months off work and some strength loss in my hand. Then the workers comp BS started. And I couldn't pick my aftercare doctor either.


Needless to say i am glad my mom was in Canada when all that stuff went down instead of Alameda County CA.

It is all anecdotal of course, but I believe my own experience over Limbaugh OR Michael Moore.

That said, I wouldn't trust OUR government, either party, to figure out a crossword puzzle without screwing it up, so I am not for socialized health care here. But again, no need to demonize something that actually works pretty well. Sure we have many of the best doctors here, but we have the best basketball players too, and it has nothing to do with capitalism.



Eli

[Masterplumb]

First off I'm glad your Mom is in good health again.

There are good and bad systems in any market, that we can agree on. If you need to get a second opinion from from plumbers woodworkers, electricians, etc. on a message board there is something really wrong going on.

I can tell you from my own experience that when my son was operated on when he was one month old, we decided to go to the Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia (C.H.O.P.) as there was only a few doctors in the country who handled "hyper-insulinism" (the opposite of diabetes). It affect something like 1 in 300,000 children. The head of this program there was the leader, in this cutting edge surgery.

The surgeon that operated on my son is one of a few doctors in the world that operates on fetuses on pregnant women (spinal biffida sp?) and the surgery that my son had. He had 50% of his pancreas removed.

11 days after the surgery and an 18 hour fast Anthony was deemed cured. To the doctors dismay they never saw a recovery as fast and as strong as his, they then nick-named him the "rock star".

Im positive that if we had socialized medicine the outcome would have been far different. I thank god every night for this.

The total cost for the surgery, care, hospital and everything was over $175,000. Total cost out of my pocket.......$0.00 Thank you Healthnet.

[gear junkie]

11 days after the surgery and an 18 hour fast Anthony was deemed cured. To the doctors dismay they never saw a recovery as fast and as strong as his, they then nick-named him the "rock star".


Why should the doctors be sad about this?

[woodenstickers]

First off I'm glad your Mom is in good health again.

There are good and bad systems in any market, that we can agree on. If you need to get a second opinion from from plumbers woodworkers, electricians, etc. on a message board there is something really wrong going on.

I can tell you from my own experience that when my son was operated on when he was one month old, we decided to go to the Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia (C.H.O.P.) as there was only a few doctors in the country who handled "hyper-insulinism" (the opposite of diabetes). It affect something like 1 in 300,000 children. The head of this program there was the leader, in this cutting edge surgery.

The surgeon that operated on my son is one of a few doctors in the world that operates on fetuses on pregnant women (spinal biffida sp?) and the surgery that my son had. He had 50% of his pancreas removed.

11 days after the surgery and an 18 hour fast Anthony was deemed cured. To the doctors dismay they never saw a recovery as fast and as strong as his, they then nick-named him the "rock star".

Im positive that if we had socialized medicine the outcome would have been far different. I thank god every night for this.

The total cost for the surgery, care, hospital and everything was over $175,000. Total cost out of my pocket.......$0.00 Thank you Healthnet.


Thanks for the sentiment about my mom, and thanks for reading that long post. Im glad your son was helped as well. My littlest brother also has spina bifida. He was born here in San Francisco and has lived here all his life. He has had several operations etc, and part of the reason my parents are for universal health care is because of the trouble they have had getting insurance for him. My dad and step mother are self employed and It has been nearly impossible get coverage for him and at times nearly prohibitively expensive. The companies tried to drop him every chance they could find. I can't speak to the details of it because my dad kind of kept it from us growing up, but that is how he explains his support of uni health care. My little brother supports it too, but to be honest he is a UCberkeley liberal elite pinko. And I'm not even joking!:eek:

I guess we are all pretty lucky. I read that in parts of Africa they are stoning witches for stealing penises over the phone, and we both have had our family members saved by medical science. We are lucky to be where we are.


Eli

[Masterplumb]

Why should the doctors be sad about this?

As I just re read that, you are correct they were not sad, it was the wrong word to insert there. It should have stated to the doctors amazement. Sometimes just rehashing that whole thing gets my juices flowing.

[Masterplumb]

My littlest brother also has spina bifida.



Eli

My son had hyperinsulinism.


But in any event, you are right to thank god for where we live.

[AFM]

Well thats exactly my point. If you are not happy with your doctor then change them. If the o.p. is under some sort of socialized medicine and cant go to a different doctor, well how good is it? This is the biggest point I think most people dont understand about socialized "anything".

So you call me a Liberal (a left winger) well in Australia there are two major political parties the Liberal Party which you would call your Republican Party and the Australian Labour Party which you would call your Democrats.
You seem to have a problem with what you call socialism well here in Australia we have private health funds which I am a member and Medicare which all Australians contribute too through their taxes and which pays a portion of every ones medical costs and all of the poor costs, I assume you have the poor in the U.S?.
You see in Australia we don't call it socialism we call it looking after the weak and defenceless in our society and that is what a compassionate country does for its citizens.


Tony

[NHMaster3015]

So you call me a Liberal (a left winger) well in Australia there are two major political parties the Liberal Party which you would call your Republican Party and the Australian Labour Party which you would call your Democrats.
You seem to have a problem with what you call socialism well here in Australia we have private health funds which I am a member and Medicare which all Australians contribute too through their taxes and which pays a portion of every ones medical costs and all of the poor costs, I assume you have the poor in the U.S?.
You see in Australia we don't call it socialism we call it looking after the weak and defenceless in our society and that is what a compassionate country does for its citizens.


Tony


Your system may work and work well. But prehaps your system only has to deal with the weak and defensless. Unfortunatly ours has to deal with not only them but millions of illegal aliens that wander across our boarder, as well as a huge population of those that have no intention of ever getting a job or contributing to the "fund" That leaves the middle class to pay for just about everything, since the poor don't pay taxes in this country (they get earned income tax credit money back for being poor) and naturally everyone is sure the rich don't pay taxes at all.
Nationalized health care would be an econombic disaster for this country.

[Masterplumb]

So you call me a Liberal (a left winger) well in Australia there are two major political parties the Liberal Party which you would call your Republican Party and the Australian Labour Party which you would call your Democrats.
You seem to have a problem with what you call socialism well here in Australia we have private health funds which I am a member and Medicare which all Australians contribute too through their taxes and which pays a portion of every ones medical costs and all of the poor costs, I assume you have the poor in the U.S?.
You see in Australia we don't call it socialism we call it looking after the weak and defenceless in our society and that is what a compassionate country does for its citizens.


Tony


I really dont care about politics, social programs or anything else that pertains to Australia. After doing some reading on Australia I recommend you worry about your own country's policy before worrying about ours.

[garager]

I would like to thank you for your imput on my shoulder as you are the only one to answer some of the questions I wanted to know from someone that has gone through this. I am amazed you are the only one to do so out of all the so called plumbers on this forum.
I don`t have full worker comp and will have my right arm in a sling for a couple of weeks and then have to take in easy, it is a learning experience trying to use my left hand for everything.

Tony

I could have sworn I told you that it hurts like hell and it requires surgery and you can start using your limb fairly quickly but it does take a long time to heal for 100% usage. I just stated, a story that I went through, but never the less my main answer was to go to the doctor. We cannot diagnose an arm when someone falls on it and then tells us it hurts. I'm sure there are forums out there that would love to converse in such topics all of the time.

Politics seems to be the main topic these days, because of our election that is coming up. But guys create another thread for that and leave the threads alone that are not about politics. When your all done with politics and nothing else to debate, I can bring up, Ford vs Chevy again.... :D :D Attempt at humor.... :eek: :D

[Masterplumb]

ford

[woodenstickers]

ford

I drive a Silverado. Who would have thought?:rotflmao:

[egecko]

I drive a Silverado. Who would have thought?:rotflmao:What about Toyota? ;)