Tell me about Mac computers

[Tyman]

My computer is eight years old and is starting to give me some problems. I have replaced the power supply and had a guy work on it last year. It locks up on me frequently. I think it is just time to get a new one.

My computer is a 1.2 GHz, 512 mb ram & it says I have 28.59 Gb of free space. I only use it for the internet, pictures, & ipod with some Microsoft word stuff.

Anyway, I am thinking of getting a Mac because of the positive reviews I have heard. I really don't know much about them but people that have them seem to think they are the BOMB. (Hello NSA).

The one I am thinking of getting is http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?Redir=1&description=Apple%2D20%22+iMac+%2D+Intel+Core+2+Du o+2%2E4GHz%2C+1GB+Memory%2C+250GB+Hard+Drive%2DiMa c&dpno=7497733&name=20%22+iMac+-+Intel+Core+2+Duo+2.4GHz%2C+1GB+Memory%2C+250GB+Ha rd+Drive&mfg=MB323LL%2FA

No real reason set on the Imac just what I came up with. If you have any experience with Macs let me know and what model you would recommend.

[JCsPlumbing]

Know a lady that has one. At the time it was THE monster in the MAC lineup. G8 Clear Tower or something like that. She is also very Windows literate. Despite what alot of MAC owners read and say, they also lock and crash. Seen it myself. Safari screws up and is slow. But my experience with this person and other friends that owned them is they loved them because of the "cool" factor.

In short, it made them feel good when they used it based on look and feel. That's cool, just doesn't do much for me. I need mostly function.

Depends what you want to do with any new cpu also. The majority of business people I know can't buy a cpu that won't meet there needs. They don't play games, mess with music much, or work with graphics which is most taxing on the system.

I think that Apple makes a good product. But I also think there are many Windows based machines that are equally is good.

I use a Toshiba laptop, Pentium 4, Hyperthreading, 100GB, 802.11 wireless, DVD burner & blah, blah, blah.

I use Windows XP so I know nothing of Vista. I looked at ALL Apple products before my purchase but couldn't justify the $500.00 difference (at the time) across the board to complete the same tasks.

I like there products....but I favor the bottom line.

Just my opinion.

J.C.:wave3:

[Tyman]

I not really concerned about a computer making me feel cool. I just want one that will give me the least amount of problems and is easy to use.

Kinda like a power tool. :D

[JCsPlumbing]

I not really concerned about a computer making me feel cool. I just want one that will give me the least amount of problems and is easy to use.

Kinda like a power tool. :D

ABSOLUTELY! I don't want a warranty. I don't want it to break!

Consumer Reports has always rated Apple highly in the past. I've just known people with them that if pressed confess to problems also.

I'd ask some of the computer guys. This is a plumbers opinion.

J.C.

[glkearns]

My brother is a computer guy, and for me, when I was getting ready to get a laptop, he said hands down, with my kids, and my occupation to get a panasonic toughbook, however I didnt like the price tag on those, so I asked him for a second best choice, and he said IBM (now Lenovo) T series. So far not one problem.

Greg

[Service Guy]

The big reason I switched to a MAC is the flood of viruses and spyware that constantly bombard windows. Lots of startup problems, etc. I have had my Mac-mini for two years and we don;t even have any virus protection....and it runs great. I have had very littel problems with my Mac. Windows blows imo.

[Rafael]

I switched from windows to Mac about 2 years ago. And I dont regret it. I have ZERO spyware and virus problems. The thing starts up in about 5 seconds and I have had no problems with it.
Get the warranty, it is not that expensive and it includes tech support. Apples are pricey to repair and IMO the warranty is worth it. Apple tech support is good, wait times have never been more than a minute and they are Canadians and Americans who speak english.

[Pipestone Kid]

I have had an imac since the first ones came out. I now have the G5 imac and it really rocks. There has never been a virus that has affected OS X and Since Os X, I have never had a crash. As far as speed, every PC owner that looks at mine cannot believe the speed. I wouldn't have anything else.

[JCsPlumbing]

I don't have a Mac. But maybe I should get one next time.:rolleyes:

I've had my Winmachine for 2 yrs. now with no viruses. Viruses come from corrupted downloads or that email you shouldn't have opened.

I guess if you don't download much you could use a Commodore 64.

J.C.

[Tyman]

:joyful:Do you see what I mean JC?

People that have them really love them. That is what has peaked my curiosity. :)

I have talked to a couple customers about them when I seen them at their house. They just raved about them. I still cant figure out what makes them so great, maybe because I haven't used one, yet. :joyful:

[JCsPlumbing]

Yeah Ty, I do see. But I'm also not sold. I want to complete the same task for less. And I do.

The genius of Steve Jobs and the Apple design crew is that they make a product that the end user feels good about. Creative makes products equal to or superior to the Ipod for the same price or less....but people want the Ipod. It's one of the marketing situations where form beats out function.

I need function to beat form while keeping the bottom line higher.

I've used Macs and Windows. Both have been fine with what I do. And customer service means nothing to me personally when it comes to a cpu unless I were to get a dead screen or motherboard. Anything else I'm going to friends or locally. Friends can solve anything that customer service phone people do faster. Anything more I'd take it to a local-reputable cpu center. They've got to make a living. And their plumbings motherboard is going to go out one day.:p

I'm ok with form over function if it's the same price or a small % higher. But I'm accomplishing what I want for $500.00 less.

Without problems or crashes. So far.:o;):D

J.C.

[Rafael]

:joyful:Do you see what I mean JC?

People that have them really love them. That is what has peaked my curiosity. :)

I have talked to a couple customers about them when I seen them at their house. They just raved about them. I still cant figure out what makes them so great, maybe because I haven't used one, yet. :joyful:

What makes them great is that compared to windows machines is that they are relatively trouble free. I've had many windows pcs and each was a big pain in the *** at some point. They also have built in wireless internet which was 100 times easier to set up than the wireless I had with my windows pc.
Macs cost more than windows pcs but I have never had any downtime with my mac, and time=$$$.

[res057]

I use Windows XP so I know nothing of Vista.

J.C.:wave3:

I'm no computer expert, but, in my experience, the less you know about vista (i.e. from using it) the better off you are! It appears to me that microsoft is using it as a stopgap between XP (which wasn't too awful) and the next generation. If Vista is their next generation, it's a sad commentary on them.

[JCsPlumbing]

Once again check with CPU guys. But businesswise I don't think Microsoft knows what to do.

They constantly try to come out with a new OS that the majority don't need.

I haven't needed any "improvements" since Windows 95.

J.C.

[Tyman]

A few months ago I started checking into a new computer and called up Dell. I knew Vista was causing some problems and so far XP was Ok for me so I asked this question.

Can I get a new Dell computer with XP installed? This led to a bunch of questions and I was told they ship all their computers with Vista installed but he could look into it.

So, I went to my local computer shop and asked if I could have a computer built with XP installed. Again, a bunch of questions as to why I don't want Vista.

Why can't I have what I want?

That is what led me to research computers and how I stumbled upon a Mac.

To be honest, the thing holding me back is the learning curve with a new system.

[Tyman]

I haven't needed any "improvements" since Windows 95.

J.C.

I agree. :)

[JCsPlumbing]

I don't think you'll have any problem with a learning curve. Some actually like Mac alot better going from Windows. I think (not sure) that Microsoft has contracts with computer vendors that forces them to put the latest Windows OS in there computers.

That's how MS has always made there money. Come out with a new system and force it into the new computers. But I think that business model is about to bite them in the butt. When was the last time you really wanted something from MS?

When was the last time you wanted something from Apple? You want a Mac right now.....right:)? That's the dilemma at MS. They need to remove Gates because he doesn't know how to create products the masses want.

But that's getting off the subject. I can make either system work for my needs. The question is can you? Or what are your needs?

Which one you gonna get Tyman?

J.C.

[Tyman]

I think I am going with the Imac unless someone would suggest good reasons for another model.


Off topic:
JC,
It looks like the price of those Veto bags went up.:scratchhead:
I knew I should have just bought one when I talked to you.

[DuckButter]

Seems like every upgrade is an excuse for Microsoft to make more rediculous profits.
I just got my newest pc, I asked for XP and the guy told me I can't even load my old XP CD's onto the new pc...said they're not compatible (BS?).
Then, as I sort through all the "new" features I see the only major differences are the graphics...oh goody, I get transparent graphic features...my life is changed!

I now think back to that thread where Microsofts 29% profuit margin was mentioned along with the fact that they had 50 billion in sales in 07.

Might be a good time to start learning the pro's and con't of a MAC indeed.

[Rafael]

If you are a student or have kids in school you can get student pricing at apple.

[Tyman]

I have kids in middle school, wonder if that counts.

[tinmack]

Seems like every upgrade is an excuse for Microsoft to make more rediculous profits.
I just got my newest pc, I asked for XP and the guy told me I can't even load my old XP CD's onto the new pc...said they're not compatible (BS?).
Then, as I sort through all the "new" features I see the only major differences are the graphics...oh goody, I get transparent graphic features...my life is changed!

I now think back to that thread where Microsofts 29% profuit margin was mentioned along with the fact that they had 50 billion in sales in 07.

Might be a good time to start learning the pro's and con't of a MAC indeed.

I upgraded my PC a couple of months ago. New board, cpu, tons of ram, and a new graphics card. Kept my Windows XP Pro. Might look at Vista when they stop supporting XP in 4 or 5 years...........

Sounds like the "not compatible" story you got is just that.......

[Rafael]

I have kids in middle school, wonder if that counts.

If you have an apple store in you area they can tell you what you need to get the discount.
Online at the apple store, apple.com , choose "store", then choose "education store", it has a list of schools. The discount isn't much, but there are also discounts on some accesories and the extended warranty. The discount is something like $50 or $100 at most, but hey, a buck is a buck.

[Kneescar]

What do you want to do?
I've had my iMac since January of 2006. I'm very happy.
We have a Mac mini in the living room, and I bought an older Powermac Dual G5 for doing Photoshop. I have 14,000 pictures in my main iPhoto library. Everything seems to just work easier.

One thing to consider is that you can run windows on a mac through Bootcamp. Also, there are Mac versions of Microsoft Office (Word, Office, etc.) iWork from Apple includes those types of programs, and is much cheaper. ($79 vs $299)

[smorris]

I've got the 24" version of the one you are looking at, but mine is a bit slower, as it is 2 years old. It is on 24 hours a day, because I host two club mailing lists on it. The only time it gets restrted is when there is a software update. It never crashes.

When I got mine, I wanted to run the CAD software we use here at Ridge Tool on it. I looked at getting a Dell, but it would have been more expensive for a similar unit than the Mac. I just didn't know if the iMac was up to the task of running heavy duty CAD software. (I've used Mac's since 1993, but always had mini towers before.)

Here's a photo of the RIDGID 535 base running on Solid Edge on my 24" iMac. It is on Windows XP Pro SP1, running under Boot Camp. (Enables Macs to run Windows XP natively.) It is the only thing I use Windows for on my Mac, and I *never* launch a browser when I'm on the Windows side.




http://smorris.smugmug.com/photos/99831946_geD6x-M.jpg

Other than that, I can do anything I want using the standard Mac software, iLife (a cheap multimedia package that may come free with the iMac), Firefox instead of Safari, and Microsoft Office for Mac (or just Word for Mac in your case.)

Remember, you cannot use your Windows software on the Mac OS (without using Boot Camp), and getting a Mac just to use it to run Windows OS isn't the best path. So if you have Windows software you can't live without or isn't available for the Mac (such as games) then keep the old box for those and the iMac for everything else.

I'll be the first to admit that the Mac OS has gotten bloaty and less intuitive over the years. Once upon a time, any installed software was just one package, easy to locate and delete. But with all of the features now on the Mac OS, and all of the interoperability, this has changed. Now there are the equivalent of Windows DLL files, drivers, etc. But it is still more stable than WinXP, and certainly better than the disaster that Vista has become. We won't even consider moving to Vista here at work!

If you've got any specific questions, let me know. If most of what you are doing is email, internet, photos, and movies, then the Mac OS is perfect. Go to a local store and fiddle with iPhoto. You can't imagine how easy it is to make your photos and galleries look great! If you pop for the .Mac account (free trial) you can make web pages and photo galleries to share with friends and family so easily. Simply amazing stuff.

One caveat; if your kids are using Windows at school and they need to transfer files regularly, you will probably need to buy Microsoft Office. I did so they can use Word and PowerPoint. As mentioned, you can get a student discount from the Apple Store, and that includes software. Compare the discount to the deal you're looking at at MacMall.

Have fun!
Steve

[VASandy]

I'm a computer geek. It's what I do for a living. I have been involved in PC's since the 80's and have used just about every OS out there. Microsoft killed the best OS there ever was, BeOS, through their non-competitive deals with the manufacturers. The builders (HP, Dell, even IBM) are required to put Microsoft on the computers or they lose their low-cost deals. It's truly a shame that Microsoft will not allow decent competition in the marketplace.

I have and use a Mac. I also have my PC. I run WinXP because I can install it myself. Some of the newer PC's won't allow you to install anything other than Vista. They've modified the chip (the BIOS chip, not the CPU) so that if you attempt to install anything else, the computer will display a message and shut down.

I really like the iMacs. The new ones are very nice. They are quick to boot, and will run just about all the apps. I currently use Apple's Office applications (Pages for Word, Numbers for Excel, and there's a Powerpoint replacement too). Although Microsoft does make a complete Office suite for the Mac. There's also OpenOffice which is free. One thing I've noticed is a lot of applications aren't updated as often for the Mac, but they run fine so I'm not really bothered by that. You'll find a lot of times the application will say Mac Intel or Mac PPC. The newest Macs are Intel based (same CPU as is in your PC). They all run OSX, the Mac OS.

Apple is getting a lot of converts due to Vista. Finally people are seeing that there's alternatives to Microsoft's stranglehold on the market. While one should never make a decision based solely on a company's marketing strategies, the Macs do make a very solid case to switch these days. They are faster and more reliable, with far less problems due to software. A lot of the errors in XP can be traced more to the software applications than to the hardware. Some of this does come from Microsoft not releasing some of it's code to the applications writers, some of it is due to really bad programming! Because Apple has very tight control of the hardware in the Mac, a lot of the compatibility problems are eliminated right at the factory.

It's for that reason (their hardware is sole-sourced) that Macs are more expensive. The hardware is higher quality. Companies such as Dell go out and get bulk quantities of low-cost items like hard drives. This leads to problems down the road with badly manufactured parts. Apple has very high hardware quality standards. This also leads to a computer that will last for longer than your average PC. The Mac I have is 5 years old and is still going great. I have no problems with it. My 3 year old PC, however, is having issues with the hard drive already.

The downside to the Apple hardware is it's proprietary. This means you can't go out and get any new motherboard when it starts to go. You can get generic RAM and you can use any hard drive for the most part (same caveat as with your PC..you have to know if it's SATAII, SATA, IDE, etc). There are limitations on the graphics cards you can use in a Mac. In an iMac, you can't really replace any of the parts unless you're an authorized service center, so that's actually less of a worry. Just make sure when you order the machine that you order it with enough RAM memory and a big enough hard drive. I believe the iMacs now come with wireless built in, which is a GOOD thing. Even if you don't have wireless now, it's something that you can't add later and you may need it.

If you want a computer you don't have to muck with much for many years, get the Mac. If you enjoy tinkering with computers, get a PC (I'd suggest Dell over HP as Dell has models that come with XP). I have a customer that got a new Dell recently and it has Vista pre-installed. It runs like a dog. I can't believe Dell is shipping computers so badly configured. I know there's others here that have and like Vista. You're the lucky ones. I cannot, as a computer professional, recommend Vista to my customers as the system is so unstable at this point. I have another customer with an HP with Vista, and while it's fast on his machine, there are issues with his own photographs. Vista will randomly pop up and say that he doesn't have "rights" to his own pictures! There are just too many problems with the OS right now for me to recommend it. Whereas the Mac OS is just stable and capable.

Just a comment on the virus thing. The only reason Mac isn't hit by bugs like the PC is the market share is lower. If Mac were the market leader, there'd be just as many bugs for it. At some point, Mac may supplant PC for market leader, and you'll see a bloom of bugs seeking them. It's always best to have and use and UPDATE a good anti-virus/firewall/anti-spam suite of software no matter what computer you're using.

[Rafael]

You neglected to mention another reason viruses dont exist on the mac, when you login to mac you are pretty much forced to login as a user not admin and if a virus atttempted to run the mac would ask for a password to allow the virus to run, at that point it is up to you if you want to load the virus. At least this is my experience and understanding.

[VASandy]

You neglected to mention another reason viruses dont exist on the mac, when you login to mac you are pretty much forced to login as a user not admin and if a virus atttempted to run the mac would ask for a password to allow the virus to run, at that point it is up to you if you want to load the virus. At least this is my experience and understanding.

While that is true, it's important to note that there is a "root user" account (analogous to Windows' Admin user). This account is generally hidden, but it's there and there are ways to get a software worm to use that account. Since MacOSX is based on Unix, this account must exist and can be manipulated. I have taken the root account on my OSX box and set a private password, and done other things to further hide and secure the account, but it's still there. Since it's a Unix OS, there are tools and methods of securing the account. Since it's a Unix OS, these tools and methods are well known. Double-edged sword kind of thing.

[Rafael]

My understanding is that it is secure by default, that is, you must change settings to be compromised.

[VASandy]

My understanding is that it is secure by default, that is, you must change settings to be compromised.

I never EVER trust "secure by default." That means that it's a known security mechanism that is documented and published. In other words, the black hats know about this and will write specifically to plunder that mechanism.

[tpwade]

I like to be different, I run a PC with Linux.

Security is better in Linux/Unix/MacOS for 3 reasons:
1) They are in the minority so fewer hackers target them with malicious software.
2) Better management of privileges. Linux/Unix/MacOS make you run as a user with limited privileges and ask for your permission to do anything dangerous. In the past most people just ran MS as administrator by default. Vista apparently fixes this, though people gripe that they don't like the way it does it.
3) Open source means there are thousands of eyes constantly on the code. Chinks in the armor may be found, but can be closed just as fast. (might be a good thing or bad thing depending on you POV). Getting things fixed in MS products is kinda like getting the QE II to turn around in a teacup.

As for your dilemma, another option would be to buy a gig or two of ram for $20 for your current box and reinstall windows. When I was running windows I made it a rule to wipe the box clean about once a year. Windows seems to accumulate "stuff" that runs in the background and hogs resources without doing anything useful. I'm not sure if this is just my impression, or whether there is much truth to it. Of course, after you struggle through reinstalling everything you might wish you ignored my advice and got a Mac.

[Velosapien]

It's for that reason (their hardware is sole-sourced) that Macs are more expensive. The hardware is higher quality. Companies such as Dell go out and get bulk quantities of low-cost items like hard drives. This leads to problems down the road with badly manufactured parts. Apple has very high hardware quality standards. This also leads to a computer that will last for longer than your average PC. The Mac I have is 5 years old and is still going great. I have no problems with it. My 3 year old PC, however, is having issues with the hard drive already.



There's technically no difference in hardware used in a Mac vs a PC. No computer seller actually makes any parts for their computers. Hard drives are usually made by either Western Digital, Hitachi, Seagate, and they are the same models used on either machine. Same goes for RAM which is probably made by either Micron or Samsung, or video cards are made Nvidia ATI or Intel, and so on. The key difference is that Apple limits the hardware that can be used by customizing it via firmware or BIOS so you just can't pop in any brand or model. This will give you a very tight control since there is only so many less factors you need to worry about going wrong. The drawback is it also causes what has historically been their greatest downfall. Extremely limited product selection and versatility with less price competition. PC's are always well ahead in terms of cutting edge hardware because every part manufacturer is free to make any product they want. Microsoft doesn't need to approve anything. Mac OS can actually be cracked to run on any PC. This is the last thing Apple wants though since removing control of the hardware will expose them to the very same problems as Windows.

[Velosapien]

You neglected to mention another reason viruses dont exist on the mac, when you login to mac you are pretty much forced to login as a user not admin and if a virus atttempted to run the mac would ask for a password to allow the virus to run, at that point it is up to you if you want to load the virus. At least this is my experience and understanding.

You can really do the same on windows by running you account as user instead of admin. Technically you only need to log in as an admin to make hardware changes or install anything. As Sandy says though, thats still no guarantee that it will stop anything.

Vista's obnoxious User Account Control was purposefully designed to help with this. It basically halts and asks the user anytime something tries to execute itself. I must admit it has turened out to be quite as effective as it is annoying. I've found it to be amazing the amount of troublesome CRAP people are no longer installing in Vista as opposed to XP thanks to it.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080411-vistas-uac-security-prompt-was-designed-to-annoy-you.html

[Tyman]

Thanks for all the great information. I really don't know much about computers but I called my ISP today and was pretty happy.

I asked them what I had to do to get the internet going on a new Imac and the guy said just plug it in. :) No typing in numbers or codes or messing around with stuff. Very cool.

Well, I guess it's time to bit the bullet and go shopping. My nearest Apple store is 3 hours away, so I will probably buy one online. Newegg, Macmall or Amazon seems to be the places to go from what I have heard.

One question, can I take all the information from my PC address book and put it on the Imac?

I am really looking forward to doing things with photos. I make all my own Christmas, Birthday cards.

[AFM]

What do you want to do?
I've had my iMac since January of 2006. I'm very happy.
We have a Mac mini in the living room, and I bought an older Powermac Dual G5 for doing Photoshop. I have 14,000 pictures in my main iPhoto library. Everything seems to just work easier.

One thing to consider is that you can run windows on a mac through Bootcamp. Also, there are Mac versions of Microsoft Office (Word, Office, etc.) iWork from Apple includes those types of programs, and is much cheaper. ($79 vs $299)

I had a mac ten years ago and changed to windows when windows 95 came out as it had the mouse just like the mac and as all the business programs at that time were windows programs but on reading up on macs and bootcamp how easy is it to run two system on the one computer.?

Tony

[tpwade]

can I take all the information from my PC address book and put it on the Imac
Almost certainly yes, but it may or may not be easy. Just make sure you don't make any permanent changes on your old computer until you have everything transferred over and working. All your files will likely transfer over without any problems as well.

I should probably emphasize something that has already been mentioned. The programs on your current computer (MS office, Photoshop, etc) you likely will not be able to install on the Mac. There are likely Mac versions of just about everything, but you may find yourself having to buy Mac versions of the software even though you had already paid for the PC versions. There are also a large number of open source, free options (OpenOffice, Gimp) that do just about everything the paid versions do, but will certainly add to the learning curve.

I'd also add that I agree with Velosapian. The quality of MAC hardware is not really any better than a decent quality PC. The first edition of any of their hardware is actually notoriously troublesome, though this is somewhat of a closely guarded secret. I'd still rate their quality as better than the average PC though.