Getting it right

[Devine Plumbing]

Alright guys, I am outta the game, kinda. I am going to see a couple of "plumbers" tomorrow. One of them owes the supply house close to $30K and seems to have no intentions of paying them back so I'm sure he will be glad for the offer. I am going to approach a couple of them about a business deal and I needed some input from some of the other business owners on the board and to the legality of the deal. Here's what I was thinking. I use my own truck, my own gas, my own material. I don't want any BS health insurance, etc. I understand he will be responsible for worker's compensation, taxes, and liability insurance on any work I do. I will even use my own customers as to not take anything away from his business. All of my customers will be invoiced under his business name and I will give him the checks at the end of the week, for which he will write me a return check for a percentage. We are not talking huge sums of money but around $3000 a week combined profit from this venture. My question is, "Is this something any of would even consider if approached with, and if so, what is a fair percentage?" Is giving him 25% too much? too little?

[Killertoiletspider]

Are you in a position to help bail him out with the supplier financially?

If so you open up a lot of different approaches.

[Devine Plumbing]

Are you in a position to help bail him out with the supplier financially?

If so you open up a lot of different approaches.

Unfortunately no.

[Killertoiletspider]

Unfortunately no.

Then stay away from the guy that is about to go bankrupt, you don't want that headache.

[Tyman]

You already know the anwser. This might help you, 2 Corinthians 6:14

[Devine Plumbing]

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Cor 6:14

I'm not quite getting the correlation, but a little bit. However, if it is lawful, then it has the opportunity to be righteous.

[ToUtahNow]

Alright guys, I am outta the game, kinda. I am going to see a couple of "plumbers" tomorrow. One of them owes the supply house close to $30K and seems to have no intentions of paying them back so I'm sure he will be glad for the offer. I am going to approach a couple of them about a business deal and I needed some input from some of the other business owners on the board and to the legality of the deal. Here's what I was thinking. I use my own truck, my own gas, my own material. I don't want any BS health insurance, etc. I understand he will be responsible for worker's compensation, taxes, and liability insurance on any work I do. I will even use my own customers as to not take anything away from his business. All of my customers will be invoiced under his business name and I will give him the checks at the end of the week, for which he will write me a return check for a percentage. We are not talking huge sums of money but around $3000 a week combined profit from this venture. My question is, "Is this something any of would even consider if approached with, and if so, what is a fair percentage?" Is giving him 25% too much? too little?

Sadly this guy would likely put you in the same position he is in real quick. I still believe the better alternative is to hire a Master Plumber and keep your business. He could qualify your license plus you could pick up hours under him. All of the info you need is available online.

As a matter of fact if you really think you are as qualified as you have posted here you go petition your Board to appear before a quorum to argue why you should be granted a Masters license of your own. Of course once you do that you are out in the open and you may want an Attorney who specializes in these things to help represent you in front of the Board.

Mark

[Australian Plumber Josh]

Youre looking for some kind of sub-contract or employee set up with a plumber who is in financial trouble?

If he won’t pay the supplier what makes you think he’d pay you?

If you put a similar amount of effort into your own business as you are considering putting into this deal surely you would be much better off in the long run.

Just my opinion.

[Devine Plumbing]

Sadly this guy would likely put you in the same position he is in real quick. I still believe the better alternative is to hire a Master Plumber and keep your business. He could qualify your license plus you could pick up hours under him. All of the info you need is available online.

As a matter of fact if you really think you are as qualified as you have posted here you go petition your Board to appear before a quorum to argue why you should be granted a Masters license of your own. Of course once you do that you are out in the open and you may want an Attorney who specializes in these things to help represent you in front of the Board.

Mark

HAHAHAHA, I would need a battery of attorneys. I would need OJ's legal counsel.

[Tyman]

Your buisness, your decision.

You want to go into buisness with a man that has shown no financial resposibility or integrity? Some would call not paying back 30,000 theft.

I don't get it.:confused:

[Devine Plumbing]

Your buisness, your decision.

You want to go into buisness with a man that has shown no financial resposibility or integrity? Some would call not paying back 30,000 theft.

I don't get it.:confused:

He is working on it, just not very fast. A good plumber, poor business man. It is amazing how much information comes out at the supply house and how much you can find out.

[DuckButter]

If a guy walked in and asked me to do that, I'd laugh as I showed him back out.
For starters, liability...some strange guy has no claim on liability when his soldered joints leak 3 months later, when his toilets stains the ceiling below 6 months later, when the overheated copper adapter at the dielectric nipple on the water heater finally corrodes and leaks 8 months later...my name would be what they found in the checkbook, not yours.

Beyond that, you can visit my states licensing board and view the monthly list of poor fools who've lost their livelyhoods for trying to skip around licensing and legal employment requirements.

You keep looking at ways around it, all your doing is prolonging the inevitable...you have to do your time, do your school...just like we all did.

You have no idea how many things you currently do in the course of your work that your doing wrong, sure you've picked up alot of knowledge over time, but there are a vast number of things you might be doing that could cause injury, property damage or even death.

[Devine Plumbing]

What is the starting wage in your state?

[Masterplumb]

What is the starting wage in your state?


Here you could easily earn 25/hr minimum if you are a halfway decent serviceman

[Devine Plumbing]

Thanks for the move to the appropriate section.

[DuckButter]

What is the starting wage in your state?
You'd have to shop around, start your time from scratch, but with your experience you could probably talk a master into paying you 15-17 an hour, bear in mind the cost of living is higher here.
You'd also need to prepare to eat a lotta crow, you have undoubtedly developed a few bad habits over time...keep your mind open and be humble.

[DuckButter]

Here you could easily earn 25/hr minimum if you are a halfway decent serviceman
If memory serves, it's different in NYC area...you can work as a licensed guy as long as your on a masters payroll...I get that right?

[ToUtahNow]

Here you could easily earn 25/hr minimum if you are a halfway decent serviceman

It is about the same in both Southern California and in Southern Nevada. However, the service guys in my shop (Southern California - T&M) were doing that or better 10-years ago when I sold my shop.

Mark

[myakka]

ToUtahNow is correct. Your best bet is to present your case to the board to let you take the test. If you have apprentice time or College credits it will help. Here is the information from the Michigan state website.

Plumber's Licenses
To do plumbing work in Michigan you need a master or journeyman license. To get an application for a license, contact:
http://www.contractors-license.org/images/contact.GIF Michigan Department of Labor
Bureau of Construction Codes/Plumbing Board
7150 Harris Drive
P.O. Box 30254
Lansing, MI 48909
(517) 241-9330
http://www.michigan.gov/cis/ (http://www.michigan.gov/cis/0,1607,7-154-10575_17394_17570---,00.html)
You will have to pass an exam to get a license. To qualify for the master exam you need two years of work experience as a Michigan licensed journeyman plumber. You must have completed the experience just before you apply for the exam. If you got your experience in another state or in some other way, you can appear before the Board and present your case to take the exam.
The written part of the exam is on the general theory and practice of plumbing and Michigan plumbing laws and regulations. The practical part of the exam will test your ability to do various mechanical tasks connected with the plumbing trade.
http://www.contractors-license.org/images/fees.GIFPlumber's license fees: It will cost you $50 to apply for the master exam. The license costs $200 and it's good for three years. If you can prove you have a valid license in a state with qualifications at least equal to Michigan's, you may be eligible for a Michigan license without taking the exam. You still need to pay the fee though.
To qualify for the journeyman exam you must have at least three years experience as an apprentice plumber working under a master plumber. If you have Board-approved education you can use it for up to one year of the three years experience requirement. If you got your experience in another state or in some other way, you can appear before the Board and present your case to take the exam.
The exam willl consist of oral, written, and practical tests and will cover the theory and practice of plumbing and knowledge of the state plumbing code, rules, and regulations.
http://www.contractors-license.org/images/fees.GIFJourneyman's license fees: It will cost you $25 to apply for the journeyman exam. The license costs $20 and it's good for one year, expiring on December 31 each year. If you can prove you have a valid license in a state with qualifications at least equal to Michigan's, you may be eligible for a Michigan license without taking the exam. You still need to pay the fee though.


Good luck
Mike

[HVAC HAWK]

If memory serves, it's different in NYC area...you can work as a licensed guy as long as your on a masters payroll...I get that right?

thats the way it was when i was plumbing there 20yrs ago

[boillerman]

Here you could easily earn 25/hr minimum if you are a halfway decent serviceman

I doubt he'ld get that here even with a license. You guys from the east coast always laugh when I tell you what we get for our rates in the midwest. Devine, you'll get more than the average starting plumber, especially if you find someone who'll put you into a service truck right out of the shoot. More than likely, they'ld put you with someone for a week or two first to see if you are what you say you are, but than if you got into a service truck I'ld guess you'ld start at somewhere around $15 to $18. Maybe more but I doubt it (at least to start).

It does make sense for you to partner up with another plumber who's on his own or is running a smaller shop for new construction. He may be thrilled to have someone who can do service work. A lot of the smaller outfits around here use us for some of that, (cause they know we're not out to steal their customers). You having your own customer base means they don't have to worry about finding work for you. There's a guy down Adrian way like this, who was willing to pay more than I make now for a service guy, cause he couldn't find anyone in his area. (that was a few years ago.) They're out there.

It's the best move for you I think, but I'ld avoid the guy who isn't paying his bills. A guy who owes me right now is avoiding me, and I'm kicking myself because two other people I know had the same problem with him and I still took his job. Stupid stupid stupid. It should set off alarm bells.

[Masterplumb]

If memory serves, it's different in NYC area...you can work as a licensed guy as long as your on a masters payroll...I get that right?

Im not in NYC but here in Westchester County you cant just "hire" a master (put him on your payroll) and claim you are licensed. As per our licensing board the Master must OWN at least 51% of the company and show proof to be considered licensed. I would assume that NYC is at least the same as they tend to be more strict on most issues.

[Masterplumb]

It is about the same in both Southern California and in Southern Nevada. However, the service guys in my shop (Southern California - T&M) were doing that or better 10-years ago when I sold my shop.

Mark

Thats why I said "If you are HALFWAY DECENT you could EASILY make 25/HR MINIMUM"