Abs

[JCsPlumbing]

I notice alot of pictures from the westcoast (Cali.) have ABS as the DWV. Is this the predominant method rather than PVC there?

J.C.

[ToUtahNow]

I notice alot of pictures from the westcoast (Cali.) have ABS as the DWV. Is this the predominant method rather than PVC there?

J.C.

PVC is slowly catching up but for years all we had in plastic was ABS.

Mark

[JCsPlumbing]

Almost zero ABS installed here. PVC with two step solvent cementing.

J.C.

[PLUMBER RICK]

our outside sdr35 waste piping is typically white or green pvc. i prefer white as it's easier to video.

abs is our indoor plastic.

rick.

[HouseOfAtlas]

When I was at Home Depot one day, I noticed that they aren't carrying that much ABS anymore compared to a few years ago. I'm not sure why.

I started using ABS when I first got into plumbing but now I use PVC. It can be a bit messier with primer, but I just like PVC for some reason (stronger maybe??). And no, I'm not prejudice at all LOL!

[gear junkie]

The only place you can find ABS here is in a trailer park.

[JCsPlumbing]

At one time here ABS was higher priced throughout. (Fittings, pipe) PVC might have caught up with Nat. Gas & the resin market prices.

I haven't checked the difference in a while. It is curious to me why ABS dominated your area? :confused:

It never dominated here and is mostly seen in mobile homes.

J.C.

[glkearns]

I have only done 1 job in PVC dwv in my career(about 5 years ago), and we had to get the parts from a source in Sacramento, as it was not readily available locally. After the install the city wanted to see cast/copper in there, so I called the boss, and he had to go down to the city and talk them into accepting it, as it was on the approved plans(safeway gas station, bathroom/mopsink) which happens to be 3 blocks from my house now...I do lots of ABS work.

Greg

[JCsPlumbing]

But isn't that stupidity of the code or inspection department. I've always thought of Cali., NY, Chicago, etc. to be more open minded, educated, and or advanced on things such as this than say.....N.C.

But I guess you can get stupid people everywhere. ;)

C'mon Mark, let me have it.:)

J.C.

[ToUtahNow]

We can't install plastic DWV in buildings taller than 2-floors or in commercial.

I think the reason we did not have PVC at first was the contractors did not like the fact that you had to use primer so you added a step.

Mark

[JCsPlumbing]

Same here on plastic DWV on height. Expansion contraction issues. At one time we were allowed to use a one step glue on PVC. No issues that I'm aware of but then the code was printed to say "purple primer" to be used. Made it two step.

I've considered ABS from time to time for the one step speed. But don't ever think I will. PVC hangs better if you know what I mean when roughing in. Feels like a heavier/stronger product. Haven't looked at comparison crush strength or anything like that in a while.

Plus here it is considered "cheap" plumbing and will kill your reputation.

J.C.

[drtyhands]

PVC is a far better product to work with as far as it keeping it's straightness when installed.ABS bows towards the direct sun's heat so soil gets from your shading falls under it as it lifts during the bowing.This makes ABS difficult to grade without water in the completed system.

If a guy knows what he's doing he will end up getting a better looking job quicker by using PVC.

I've use it on ground works on a large grocery store chain,Hundreds of apartments,condos and single family homes.None can have plastic more than two floors.

[Plumbus]

Sioux Chief Tomahawks are useful when laying abs in a trench. Keeps things tidy. Also good for PVC and cast iron.

[ridgidpipe]

I cant speak for California but here in Ohio we use mainly ABS in the work we do and I would say its a 50 / 50 split in houses in our area. We use mainly ABS as its a one step glue vs a tree step that the inpectors make you do here in Ohio ( cleaner primer then glue ) Plus I think the bonding between ABS pipe and fitting is much stronger as the plastics actually fuse together instead of a hardened glue joint you have with PVC. The cost of the ABS pipe is more than PVC in our area but we can intall it quicker using or spin cutters and one step glue so we save on labor. ABS may be harder to make look nice on the job so we do go through it to find the staight pipes at the supply house and if installed properly and hung properly I think does look nicer than PVC with purple primer stains all over the white pipe

[DuckButter]

PVC is a solvent weld.

[rombo]

Here it is abs for 90% of the residential work. Commercial is 90 % pvc untill a handy man or G.C does some repair work

[JCsPlumbing]

PVC is a solvent weld.

That was my understanding to DB. The system is melting (lamens terms) both parts, fitting & pipe, together.

Interesting how similar things are done differently in other places.

J.C.

[Service Guy]

I've always used pvc, never abs. The bonding is very strong as long as its primed first. The only leaking joints I have seen were because of installation error, either not pushing the fittings on all the way, or not using primer.
One time I had to fix a bunch of venting joints in an attic of a newish high-end home that were coming apart. Some HACK thought he would skip the required primer to save time. Luckily it seems they only did this for the vents and not for the rest of the system.:smack-head:

[DuckButter]

I felt like an idiot when I first got here...all the WEst coasters were swapping notes on working with ABS and I knew squat about it.
Nobody uses it here...I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen it...thats usually a DIY or handyman job where someone might have found it at a hardware store and thought it looked real purdy.
After hearing comparisons from the west coasters to PVC, I can understand why it never gained momentum here.

Admittedly having to prime PVC can be a pain in the keyster having lug around two cans, but I very seldom get leaks on solvent welded seals with PVC...use PLENTY of primer and glue, ALWAYS do the 1/4 turn.

[DuckButter]

I've always used pvc, never abs. The bonding is very strong as long as its primed first. The only leaking joints I have seen were because of installation error, either not pushing the fittings on all the way, or not using primer.
One time I had to fix a bunch of venting joints in an attic of a newish high-end home that were coming apart. Some HACK thought he would skip the required primer to save time. Luckily it seems they only did this for the vents and not for the rest of the system.:smack-head:
Primer softens the PVC for a better solvent weld, however, I know an oldtimer that refuses to use it...never gets leaks, ever.
He uses tons of glue, then absolutely makes certain he gives it the 1/4 turn.
I used to aggravate him by using primer, he swore it was pointless...quite frankly his argument was sound...never once saw him get a leak.
I use primer, period, call me a wimp, call me overly paranoid...but I tend to adhere to MFG suggestion for the sake of liability.

[ToUtahNow]

The primer is an ASTM Standard as no one has been able to make a glue which will give the proper joint without the use of primer. I am sure one-step glues will eventually be made which will be approved and the first one to make one which is approved will make some big bucks.

Mark

[Service Guy]

Primer softens the PVC for a better solvent weld, however, I know an oldtimer that refuses to use it...never gets leaks, ever.
He uses tons of glue, then absolutely makes certain he gives it the 1/4 turn.
I used to aggravate him by using primer, he swore it was pointless...quite frankly his argument was sound...never once saw him get a leak.
I use primer, period, call me a wimp, call me overly paranoid...but I tend to adhere to MFG suggestion for the sake of liability.

I'm amazed he didn't get leaks, you are smarter than him to use primer as it is a required step of proper installation.

[JCsPlumbing]

The primer is an ASTM Standard as no one has been able to make a glue which will give the proper joint without the use of primer. I am sure one-step glues will eventually be made which will be approved and the first one to make one which is approved will make some big bucks.

Mark

This is correct. 95% sure they do make one step glues but I don't have the specs in front of me. Typically the "blue glue". And I'm sure everyone knows there are like 10 different glues for PVC depending on how you need to tweak your installation.

Until it changes though, it doesn't matter what the manufacturer states on the can, you have to use purple primer where we are located.

J.C.

[ToUtahNow]

They are pretty tricky with the blue glue in that they say something to the effect that some codes require the use of primer which of course implies some do not. I am not aware of any codes which do not require primer as it is the ASTM Standard for PVC pipe and fittings. I do have a project where the original plumber built 180 condos with either blue glue or clear glue with no primer. Sometimes you have to wonder where the inspectors are on these jobs.

Mark

[ramplum]

ditto in reverse, PVC DWV isnt avalible in west due to expansion and contraction differences, price and wholesalers floorspace.

[ramplum]

Im sorry my reply to ABS posting went here.
while Im here ASTM has approved (listed) a one step SOLVENT CEMENT for CPVC.

[ToUtahNow]

I thought one-step glue for PVC was approved in the 06 edition of the UPC but it still list primer. If it has not been approved yet I'm sure it will be soon.

Mark