Cost per hour for a truck

[Plumbus]

Figuring the replacement cost of a new p/u with service body or van fully loaded with tools at $35,000 (or your best guess) and gas at $4+, anyone have any idea what that works out per hour, assuming a 2000 hour year?

[Devine Plumbing]

Lets assume a truck has a life span of around 5 years. I find that typical driving doing service work is around 30,000 miles per year. This equates to an approximate life span of 150,000 miles. Assuming an average of 12 MPG, this truck will use 12,500 gallons of fuel. At an average of $5.00 per gallon over the next five years (you know we have not seen the end of it yet) this truck will cost $62,500 in fuel to operate. It is safe to figure an additional $1500 a year to cover oil changes, tires, belts, etc. This addes another $7500 to your cost bringing your cost up to $70,000. Adding the purchase price we arrive at about $110,000. Divide that by 10,000 working hours and we come up with about $11 an hour.

[Service Guy]

Yep, work trucks are expensive. Of course you also have to figure in liability insurance on the vehicle, (we don't want to be driving around without the proper licenses and insurance now do we?);) And if you are in service, its unlikely to be billing out 8 hours/day every day unless you charge for travel time between jobs. I don't, so I wouldn't use the 2000 hour figure when calculating what my trucks' business costs are per billable hour.

[ora]

you can figure you truck cost and over head will be 18% of you ticket total of each job. you labor should not exceed more then 20% of a ticket total. start working with percents to find you true cost of being in business.

[Service Guy]

you can figure you truck cost and over head will be 18% of you ticket total of each job. you labor should not exceed more then 20% of a ticket total. start working with percents to find you true cost of being in business.

:confused: I don't use percentages at all. I use a system for calculating your actual costs. Similar to Randall Hilton's system which is quite simple. You add up all your annual actual costs of doing business, add in a profit margin, and divide it by your annual billable hours. And then you have your exact hourly rate.

[Devine Plumbing]

Yep, work trucks are expensive. Of course you also have to figure in liability insurance on the vehicle, (we don't want to be driving around without the proper licenses and insurance now do we?);) And if you are in service, its unlikely to be billing out 8 hours/day every day unless you charge for travel time between jobs. I don't, so I wouldn't use the 2000 hour figure when calculating what my trucks' business costs are per billable hour.

I did not account for auto insurance and tabs, better add another $1 per hour to cover those, bringing your total to $12 an hour on a 2000 hour schedule. However, we all know there are only about 1000 billable hours in any given year plus or minus a few.

[DuckButter]

I did not account for auto insurance and tabs, better add another $1 per hour to cover those, bringing your total to $12 an hour on a 2000 hour schedule. However, we all know there are only about 1000 billable hours in any given year plus or minus a few.
You forgot the cost of liability, for licensed work.

[ToUtahNow]

I did not account for auto insurance and tabs, better add another $1 per hour to cover those, bringing your total to $12 an hour on a 2000 hour schedule. However, we all know there are only about 1000 billable hours in any given year plus or minus a few.

I would have to let a guy go if all I could get out of him was 1,000 hours per year. Even after vacation, sick pay and Holidays he needs to be a lot closer to 1,900 than 1,000 hours per year.

Mark

[Devine Plumbing]

I would have to let a guy go if all I could get out of him was 1,000 hours per year. Even after vacation, sick pay and Holidays he needs to be a lot closer to 1,900 than 1,000 hours per year.

Mark

Lets take a closer look at this. Fifty working weeks in a year after holidays, vacation, sick pay, etc. If a guy could work 1900 billable hours a year that computes to 38 billable hours a week. This breaks down further to 7 hours and 36 minutes of billable time a day. Lets say we don't pay for lunches or time spent travelling back to the shop at the day's end. This leaves 24 minutes to gather materials at the shop and drive to maybe one jobsite. In new construction, maybe. In service, not a chance. You might be lucky to get 1500 billable hours a year, depending on what type of work they are doing. In less of course you are charging portal to portal and for time spent picking up materials, etc. then 1900 might be feasible.

[Devine Plumbing]

You forgot the cost of liability, for licensed work.

Sorry, thought we were talking about auto expenses here. Typically auto liability is included in a general liability policy. Maybe not for some of you bigger guys. As a one-man operation is there another policy I should get in addition to my general liability policy, and my commercial auto insurance policy?

[Service Guy]

I would have to let a guy go if all I could get out of him was 1,000 hours per year. Even after vacation, sick pay and Holidays he needs to be a lot closer to 1,900 than 1,000 hours per year.

Mark

In the plumbing service business 4-5 hours/day billable is normal. (unless you charge T&M and charge for drive time between calls)

[ToUtahNow]

Lets take a closer look at this. Fifty working weeks in a year after holidays, vacation, sick pay, etc. If a guy could work 1900 billable hours a year that computes to 38 billable hours a week. This breaks down further to 7 hours and 36 minutes of billable time a day. Lets say we don't pay for lunches or time spent travelling back to the shop at the day's end. This leaves 24 minutes to gather materials at the shop and drive to maybe one jobsite. In new construction, maybe. In service, not a chance. You might be lucky to get 1500 billable hours a year, depending on what type of work they are doing. In less of course you are charging portal to portal and for time spent picking up materials, etc. then 1900 might be feasible.

I don't know where you get not a chance my service guys did it for 20-years under me and so fa 9-years under the new guy. The guys take their trucks home at night and need to be on their first job at 8 AM. From there the customer pays travel time from job to job. Every guy was scheduled for an 8-hour day and many ended up with OT due to emergencies which were billed as such. Each guy also worked 12-weekends per year on call. The shops that have guys sitting around waiting for work or running to the supply house or shop are wasting money for both them and their guys. If you plan your jobs right the supply house drops the material off at the job or at the shop. You don't send a real plumber to the supply house or to the shop you have a golpher for that kind of running.

Mark

[ToUtahNow]

In the plumbing service business 4-5 hours/day billable is normal. (unless you charge T&M and charge for drive time between calls)

Which we did/do.

Mark

[JCsPlumbing]

I don't know where you get not a chance my service guys did it for 20-years under me and so fa 9-years under the new guy. The guys take their trucks home at night and need to be on their first job at 8 AM. From there the customer pays travel time from job to job. Every guy was scheduled for an 8-hour day and many ended up with OT due to emergencies which were billed as such. Each guy also worked 12-weekends per year on call. The shops that have guys sitting around waiting for work or running to the supply house or shop are wasting money for both them and their guys. If you plan your jobs right the supply house drops the material off at the job or at the shop. You don't send a real plumber to the supply house or to the shop you have a golpher for that kind of running.

Mark

Haven't billed for in-between travel time, but will consider it.

Couldn't agree more about getting your supplies. I'm a one man operation the majority of the time and my goal is to never go to the supply house. When I have too I see guys from the larger companies there when I walk in. Guess what, they are there when I "run" out.

One of the guys commented once that "haven't seen much of you lately." I told him I hope he never sees me there. He says, "Why?"

Told him, I can't make money at the supply house. :)

J.C.

[All Clear Sewer]

Sounds like you guys need to loosen up a little and live life and enjoy what you do ;)
I mean, if all you do is worry about how much money you lost because you had to go to the supply house then your spending to much time worrying about money. I figure, I`ll make what I make and I`ll enjoy the day and BSing at the supply house is good PR work as I get allot of jobs from the other plumbers ;)
When I was young I worried about how much I could make in a day but not anymore as I now see allot of friends dieing off that never got to enjoy the day.
Maybe that`s why I`m so happy all the time :icon_bike:

[ridgidpipe]

we are a small outfit that does spend a little to much time at the supply house at times. I dont do the travel time to the job on my billing but going from one job to the next in my town takes less than ten minutes. But if I have to leave the job to get materials I am still on the clock to the customer . Because there is no way you can carry every possible plumbing item on your truck that you may need at the job. Even though you can usually have what you need if you Know what the customer wants in advance. Then comes the while you are here can you change this faucet. Sure I can . What faucet do you want . Lets see if they have that model in stock . Ok they have it I will be right back. You have to charge for this travel time cause now you are a paid shopper getting the customer what they want. Its a lot different being a 3 man operation than a large shop that has hired gophers. Either way if this question is pertaining to what to charge for the cost of a vehicle doing service work I have no idea. As long as we can make a living with our hourly rate and servce call being what it is I am happy. But you do have to factor in the cost of being a licensed plumber into both of these otherwise you are just a handyman

[Bogart]

In the industrial sector, we charge 20 bucks hourly, 80 daily for a service vehicle. Shop vehicle/delivery truck is 18 hourly, 72 daily. A pickup is 15 an hour, 60 daily. You really make money on a nice long maintenance contract where the vehicles stay on site. I am doing some plumbing at a nuke right now. The supply house driver got there at 9:30 in the morning. The security procedure to get a vehicle in was just changed, and the guards were playing war games so the gates were short staffed. He didn't get into the PA (protected area)till 3:30 p.m. Cha-ching! I am leaving my van in the parking lot, and still charging for it, because even though it is not inside the PA, it is not available to any other jobs.

[HouseOfAtlas]

Sounds like you guys need to loosen up a little and live life and enjoy what you do ;)
I mean, if all you do is worry about how much money you lost because you had to go to the supply house then your spending to much time worrying about money. I figure, I`ll make what I make and I`ll enjoy the day and BSing at the supply house is good PR work as I get allot of jobs from the other plumbers ;)
When I was young I worried about how much I could make in a day but not anymore as I now see allot of friends dieing off that never got to enjoy the day.
Maybe that`s why I`m so happy all the time :icon_bike:

Great attitude, All Clear :)

As long as one is making a decent living and is able to play hard and work hard, I have to agree with you.

[ToUtahNow]

Sounds like you guys need to loosen up a little and live life and enjoy what you do ;)
I mean, if all you do is worry about how much money you lost because you had to go to the supply house then your spending to much time worrying about money. I figure, I`ll make what I make and I`ll enjoy the day and BSing at the supply house is good PR work as I get allot of jobs from the other plumbers ;)
When I was young I worried about how much I could make in a day but not anymore as I now see allot of friends dieing off that never got to enjoy the day.
Maybe that`s why I`m so happy all the time :icon_bike:

I'm not sure you do the thousands of drain cleanings a year you've posted about yet still have time to hang out at the supply house. As a one man shop non productive hours are fine and at your discretion. However, I had very few applicants if any who applied because they only want to work part time. My job as the owner was to optimize man-hours. When the customer called for service we needed to be able to get to the job or recommend someone else. The simple math tells you to only own enough trucks and equipment (plus some wiggle room) to handle your customer load. Then you hire the crew to fill the trucks. If you have one guy who only does 20-25 hours per week of the 40-hours you scheduled for him you are losing 15-20 hours of income on that truck. When your cost of sales is based on all the trucks working full time you have the same overhead on that truck sitting in the yard as you do the trucks earning money.

Mark

[SlimTim]

I figure 1490 billable hours a year. Roughly 3.5 non billable hours a day which include computer time (invoicing, estimating, scheduling), cell phone calls during the day, material pickup, travel time, etc. Basically it's all the time that I'm "at work" but not on a particular job. I multiply those non-billable hours by my breakeven point (which is probably more than most plumbers charge with profit!) and divide it into my billable hours.

So, I only charge for time on the job because the lost time (generally) is already figured into my hourly rate. I also do not charge a service call or minimum charge.

Of course, I do have those days when it seems all I do is drive around all day and don't get anything accomplished.

[JCsPlumbing]

Slim Did You Get The Water Line Under The Drive Repaired???

:shocked::shocked::shocked:

J.C.

[SlimTim]

Slim Did You Get The Water Line Under The Drive Repaired???

:shocked::shocked::shocked:

J.C.

I've got a hole big enough to bury myself-while in my van-and I think I will! :mad:
Updates later.

[boillerman]

In the plumbing service business 4-5 hours/day billable is normal. (unless you charge T&M and charge for drive time between calls)

When I started running service, I asked guys in service trucks in other types of outfits about this. I was told 4 1/2 to 5 billable hours a day was what I had to do to be profitable for my employer. I kept track for several years and found I averaged 6 to 6 1/2, and that was how I knew I was on solid footing with my boss. In the place I work now, it's not run quite so organized, and I'm sometimes lucky to get 5. I work hard at it and when the normal guy doing dispatch is gone I get much more done.

We us trip charges instead of charging actual travel time (unless we're driving a considerable distance) and that covers the cost of the truck, insurance, fuel, down time, etc. If you threw in a 1/2 hour per trip on some days, billable hours would actually exceed paid time.

[All Clear Sewer]

I'm not sure you do the thousands of drain cleanings a year you've posted about yet still have time to hang out at the supply house. As a one man shop non productive hours are fine and at your discretion. However, I had very few applicants if any who applied because they only want to work part time.
Mark
Mark
You caught me, I lied
I don't do that many sewers but for some reason I flat wore out a K-7500 in just 2 years...hummmmm

How many sewers does it take to ware out a 7500 in 2 years?
Lets see the feeder tube now has the cable sticking through it
I cant turn the nose cone anymore and it`s warn out to the feeder
I use up 100` cable till they are like a floppy rope

Yep I`m lucky if I only do 1 one sewer a day
I must have been dreaming when I did 17 C/O`s on Sunday at the food plant that I do once a month ;)

[gear junkie]

Mark
You caught me, I lied
I don't do that many sewers but for some reason I flat wore out a K-7500 in just 2 years...hummmmm

How many sewers does it take to ware out a 7500 in 2 years?
Lets see the feeder tube now has the cable sticking through it
I cant turn the nose cone anymore and it`s warn out to the feeder
I use up 100` cable till they are like a floppy rope

Yep I`m lucky if I only do 1 one sewer a day
I must have been dreaming when I did 17 C/O`s on Sunday at the food plant that I do once a month ;)
Holy $hit Steve, is it that time of the month already?

[All Clear Sewer]

Yep
Christmas in July :D
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/15497070208_1952_00_.jpg

[ToUtahNow]

Sounds like you guys need to loosen up a little and live life and enjoy what you do ;)
I mean, if all you do is worry about how much money you lost because you had to go to the supply house then your spending to much time worrying about money. I figure, I`ll make what I make and I`ll enjoy the day and BSing at the supply house is good PR work as I get allot of jobs from the other plumbers ;)
When I was young I worried about how much I could make in a day but not anymore as I now see allot of friends dieing off that never got to enjoy the day.
Maybe that`s why I`m so happy all the time :icon_bike:

Mark
You caught me, I lied
I don't do that many sewers but for some reason I flat wore out a K-7500 in just 2 years...hummmmm

How many sewers does it take to ware out a 7500 in 2 years?
Lets see the feeder tube now has the cable sticking through it
I cant turn the nose cone anymore and it`s warn out to the feeder
I use up 100` cable till they are like a floppy rope

Yep I`m lucky if I only do 1 one sewer a day
I must have been dreaming when I did 17 C/O`s on Sunday at the food plant that I do once a month ;)

It appears you missed my point as I never questioned the number of drains you clean. What I am saying is doing the number of drains you do you obviously are as driven as much as some of the others (myself included). In addition, doing the number of drains you do I doubt you can afford the time to hang out at the supply house and BS very often.

Your business situation might be different than mine was but I would rather spend 10 hours per week on the lake rather than 10 hours per week in the supply house. If I called an order in by 3 PM it was at my shop at 7 AM the next morning (or the job site) and it did not cost a cent to have it delivered. With the hours I saved I could either work extra or head to the lake depending on what was going on.

Mark

[All Clear Sewer]

Yes Mark I missread your post, My Bad, I`m sorry. you can now :slap: me

[Service Guy]

I hardly go to the supply house at all anymore. Only for toilets and water heaters that I am replacing in emergency situations. I have put shelves in my basement and stocked up extra parts from plumbmaster (catalog company.) Also, I got my extended 3500 van and loaded it to the gills with shelving and inventory. So I have cut down my trips to the supply house significantly which means less wasted time and gas. When I get low on something, I just e-mail my rep at plumbmaster and my parts get shipped to my door in a couple days.
I simply cut out the time-wasting, overcharging middleman supply house.:D (Ferguson in my case).:thumbup2:

[SlimTim]

I've cut out most of my supply house time as well. I order my oem delta parts from barnett and they are at my door the next day. I get alot of stuff from Wolverine Brass and when I do need stuff from in town I call ahead and make sure it will be ready for me when I arrive.

But, what my 'time-waster' is, if you want to call it that, is to meet with my plumber friends, one-man shops like myself mostly, and have lunch or just shoot the bull. It's therapy. It can't be all go,go,go. It's like the Ridgid Forum, except face to face. I may work on the computer all night doing invoicing or estimates etc, so if I take a few minutes during the day, or an hour, I'm not going to beat myself over the head. I used to. It hurt.:(

[Service Guy]

I'll be having a few beers this weekend, I'll still answer the phone if an emergency comes in, but if I am relaxing with my family, friends and a beer, then "I will be on a job for awhile, and can get there later!" Sometimes you just have to take time OFF!
Happy Independence Day!:party-on:

[ridgidpipe]

Just make sure you dont have to many beers before responding to that emergency call . I like seeing your post on the forum and would hate for anything bad to happen.
Have a great 4th of July

[All Clear Sewer]

I`ve told people I cant show up because I`ve been drinking and had em tell me, "come on over, we`ll set you up a few" :shocked:....lol