Leaking AC Drip Pan

[cpw]

The AC air handler in my attic has two PVC outlets for condensation, one from the air handler itself and the other from the drip pan below. Both feed into the same a regular drain line. The connection between the drip pan and the PVC pipe is leaking. The float switch doesn't trip, because it is above the bottom of the outlet, so it has been leaking into the attic, down through a wall, and then into my garage ceiling.

My questions are:
(1) If there is water in the drip pan does that mean the AC unit itself has something wrong with it.
(2) If it is normal for water to be in the drip pan, can i just caulk around the outlet, and maybe have some kind of backup like a pie pan with a water sensor in it?

Thanks,
Charles

[cpw]

Let me just add that after cogitating for a few minutes, doing #2 with caulk seems like a dumb idea. Cutting out a section of the PVC and replacing it with something new (and using pipe dope on the connection) seems like a better one. Whether or not the dripping AC unit is normal behavior, the drip pan somehow needs to be fixed. I just really wouldn't want to have to replace it, because the AC unit is permanently fixed on top of it.

[Woussko]

If you can, please try to post a few good pictures of just what is leaking. Can you make up a sleeve out of clear PVC tubing and use hose clamps to repair the problem? In any case keep a wet/dry vac handy and try to clean up any messes. Depending on exactly what is leaking this may be an easy thing to solve or it may require parts replacement by a good HVAC tech.

Pictures please

[cpw]

I've attached a picture of the PVC connection to the drip pan that is leaking. There is a drip at the very bottom of that connection, making both the drain and the float switch useless. It obviously needs to be fixed one way or another, but I also would like to know if it is ever meant to be used, or if it is solely for safety if the unit is malfunctioning.

[reConx]

(1) If there is water in the drip pan does that mean the AC unit itself has something wrong with it.
(2) If it is normal for water to be in the drip pan

CPW, I'm not HVAC but it sounds like your AC is working okay. When the outside air is hot and humid, the cooling coils become covered with water droplets and the condensate should drip out of those pipes into the drip pan. My AC is in the basement and it drips into the sump pit. There must be some pump involved to drain the drip pan. A PVC coupler or new connection to the drip pan. Hope this helps

[cpw]

CPW, I'm not HVAC but it sounds like your AC is working okay. When the outside air is hot and humid, the cooling coils become covered with water droplets and the condensate should drip out of those pipes into the drip pan. My AC is in the basement and it drips into the sump pit. There must be some pump involved to drain the drip pan. A PVC coupler + some pipe should be ez to replace if you got space. Hope this helps
There isn't much space, but it should be doable to replace it by just cutting the pipe farther back.

I know that some water should come out of the system, but I'm not sure that it should arrive in the drip pan, because it would seem that it should come out of the unit itself into that top pipe.

[reConx]

There isn't much space, but it should be doable to replace it by just cutting the pipe farther back.

I know that some water should come out of the system, but I'm not sure that it should arrive in the drip pan, because it would seem that it should come out of the unit itself into that top pipe.

One other thought while your into those PVC pipes: Make sure those pipes are not clogged or flow rate diminished by mold build up. I have clear pipe on a curved section in order to see build up or mold. HVAC tech also recommended to pour a little bleach in there seasonally to kill the mold. (be sure there is a way for the pan to drain)

[gear junkie]

You have an internal drip pan inside the unit(evaporator) and one underneath(auxilary). They are plumbed seperately so you have 2 lines exiting the evaporator location. The auxilary drip pan should not have water in it. The drain for the auxilary drain pan should be plumbed to a visible location to alert the homeowner of the problem. This means the evaporator condensate drain is plugged up. I've had good luck unplugging it with a shop vac from the exit or you can take the panel off and blow a little compressed air in there(make sure the unit is turned off before you do this).

They make rubber gaskets to attach the pvc pipe to the drip pan. It goes between the drip pan wall and the retaining nut.

[cpw]

You have an internal drip pan inside the unit(evaporator) and one underneath(auxilary). They are plumbed seperately so you have 2 lines exiting the evaporator location. The auxilary drip pan should not have water in it. This means the evaporator condensate drian is plugged up. I've had good luck unplugging it with a shop vac from the exit or you can take the panel off and blow a little compressed air in there(make sure the unit is turned off before you do this).
Thanks. I'll pop out the primary line's cleanout and check that tomorrow. I'll also turn off and open up the unit tomorrow morning to see what I can see. If there is nothing obviously wrong I'll call in an HVAC tech. I can also pick his brain about how to fix the PVC to auxiliary pan connection.

[gear junkie]

All you'll see is some green slime. Most of the time the 2 lines are run parallel with each other. Most make sure the auxilary drain gets plumbed to a visible location. You should also have a ptrap on the evaporator condensate drain.

[cpw]

All you'll see is some green slime. Most of the time the 2 lines are run parallel with each other. Most make sure the auxilary drain gets plumbed to a visible location. You should also have a ptrap on the evaporator condensate drain.
They are run parallel for about 5 feet and then combine into one. There is a trap on the primary, but the aux has no trap. Is that right?

[gear junkie]

They are run parallel for about 5 feet and then combine into one. There is a trap on the primary, but the aux has no trap. Is that right?Yes
If possible have 2 seperate drain lines.

[cpw]

If possible have 2 seperate drain lines.
Ben,

Thanks for all your advice. You called it exactly, except my slime was brown instead of green. :)

The primary line was clogged, I ran a snake down it and it started draining. For good measure i put about 10 gallons of hot water down it to flush out some of the crud. My next step is to get a water alarm like for a water heater pan, and then to see about fixing the aux line.

Answers beget more questions.

For connecting a new threaded PVC adapter to the drip pan, should I do anything special aside from adding some thread sealant and screwing it in? - Nevermind I saw your note about the rubber gasket after re-reading your first post.

For connecting a new threaded PVC adapter to the drip pan, should I do anything special aside from adding some thread sealant and screwing it in?

I'm not sure that I'll do two completely separate lines

If I do two completely separate lines, do I just drill a hole in the side of the attic and dump it outside? There is only one vent stack to tie into; and tying into a vent stack is something that would require a permit.

Is there a good way to clean these low-flow lines so they don't have flow restriction because of built up crud. My little snake certainly didn't get the inside of the pipe very clean, and it is hard to imagine that any snake would without some flow to help it along. Is it a good idea to put some Glug or Thrift down the condensate line (flushing it with hot water afterwards) to help clean off some of the slime?

I understand that the primary is trapped to prevent the gases from the vent stack entering the air handler and thus the rest of the house. Why isn't the aux trapped to prevent the gases from entering the attic? Is it just that the attic isn't living space or is there something I am missing?

The primary line doesn't have a real trap. It looks like they just heated a pipe and bent it into a U shape. Is this worth replacing?

[Masterplumb]

All you'll see is some green slime. Most of the time the 2 lines are run parallel with each other. Most make sure the auxilary drain gets plumbed to a visible location. You should also have a ptrap on the evaporator condensate drain.

I see them all the time here, but what is the purpose of the p trap if you can not tie it into a waste line?

[Ruudacguy]

Ben nailed it. The 2 lines should not tie together. The secondary drain pan line should terminate where its easy to see. If theres water coming out of it that lets the person know theres a problem with the main drain line.

The P-trap issue is something different. If the coil is in the return-air stream then the drain line has to be trapped in order to drain properly. If the coil is in the supply-air stream it does not need to be trapped unless it is tied directly into a sanitary waste line. If it just drains outside or goes to a floor drain, then theres no need for it to be trapped.

Andy

[gear junkie]

For connecting a new threaded PVC adapter to the drip pan, should I do anything special aside from adding some thread sealant and screwing it in?

I'm not sure that I'll do two completely separate lines

If I do two completely separate lines, do I just drill a hole in the side of the attic and dump it outside? That's what most people do around here. They have the line coming out under that roof overhang. There is only one vent stack to tie into; and tying into a vent stack is something that would require a permit.

Is there a good way to clean these low-flow lines so they don't have flow restriction because of built up crud. My little snake certainly didn't get the inside of the pipe very clean, and it is hard to imagine that any snake would without some flow to help it along. Is it a good idea to put some Glug or Thrift down the condensate line (flushing it with hot water afterwards) to help clean off some of the slime? Bleach with warm water at the end of summer. Just pour it into the evaporator drain pan.

I understand that the primary is trapped to prevent the gases from the vent stack entering the air handler and thus the rest of the house. Why isn't the aux trapped to prevent the gases from entering the attic? See below Is it just that the attic isn't living space or is there something I am missing?

The primary line doesn't have a real trap. It looks like they just heated a pipe and bent it into a U shape. Is this worth replacing? That is pretty much what they look like. Leave it.To piggyback on what andy said. The ptrap isn't primarily used to prevent sewer gas from coming in. It creates a pressure difference that allows the condensate to leave the pan. If it wasn't there, the blower could actually suck in the water causing problems. They do make condensate anti algae pills to kill the slime but I've found bleach works just as well. The snake is a good idea but truthfully the pros use compressed air or nitrogen to clear the line.

[cpw]

OK. So I've got myself a plan and some supplies from the supply house. I am going to cut the existing auxiliary line off, and run a new one from the drip pan and have it just poke out of a soffit vent. If the main is clogged (and it isn't raining) I should see the dripping water coming from the soffit onto the garage roof below. I also got an audible alarm so that if there is water in there I'll hear it.
I have a threaded male adapter to connect to the drip pan. You mentioned that they make rubber gaskets for that. The guy at the supply house said just to use silicon. Is that a reasonable suggestion?

I am going to have to do something where the aux line joins the primary line. The two options I see are sticking a cap on the pipe coming out of the tee or to cut out the tee and put in a small replacement section. Are there any disadvantages to just capping the short pipe and leaving a 2" dead end?

I would also like to hear your opinion on cutting out an elbow on the primary line and replacing it with a tee, short section of pipe and a threaded male adapter with a threaded cap to make a cleanout (since the radius is a bit tight for a snake to make it through). Maybe a better solution is just to get a sweeping 90* (or make one by heating pipe, or just leave well enough alone. If I am going to invest the time in this, I want to make sure I do it right.

[gear junkie]

I also got an audible alarm so that if there is water in there I'll hear it. Get a float switch-it mounts in the auxilary drain pan-google aquaguard. It'll turn your unit off if the contacts close.
I have a threaded male adapter to connect to the drip pan. Auxilary or primary? You mentioned that they make rubber gaskets for that. The guy at the supply house said just to use silicon. Is that a reasonable suggestion? For the auxilary-yes. Get some vinegar and rub it around the hole(lol), this will take off the galvinzation so the silicone will stick better.

Are there any disadvantages to just capping the short pipe and leaving a 2" dead end? No, as long as the dead end is the branch of the tee.

I would also like to hear your opinion on cutting out an elbow on the primary line and replacing it with a tee, short section of pipe and a threaded male adapter with a threaded cap to make a cleanout (since the radius is a bit tight for a snake to make it through). Maybe a better solution is just to get a sweeping 90* (or make one by heating pipe, or just leave well enough alone. bad idea If I am going to invest the time in this, I want to make sure I do it right.
The cleanout idea isn't a bad idea just a bit overdesigned. Nothing wrong with it just complicated. Buy an air compressor and just blow the line out when it clogs up.

[FINER9998]

wouldn't it be a better long term solution to have no drain from the auxiliary pan but equip it with a micro cut off float switch wired into the evaporator's control wiring? that way, if the primary pan drain clogged, causing condensate in the auxiliary pan, the unit would shut down completely until the problem of the clogged primary drain was rectified. this is a somewhat more complicated solution but it necessitates identifying the problem with the primary drain rather than just treating the auxiliary pan as a second primary pan. just my 2 cents.

[gear junkie]

What a great idea. I wish I mentioned that. Oh well, better luck next time.

[cpw]

wouldn't it be a better long term solution to have no drain from the auxiliary pan but equip it with a micro cut off float switch wired into the evaporator's control wiring? that way, if the primary pan drain clogged, causing condensate in the auxiliary pan, the unit would shut down completely until the problem of the clogged primary drain was rectified. this is a somewhat more complicated solution but it necessitates identifying the problem with the primary drain rather than just treating the auxiliary pan as a second primary pan. just my 2 cents.
There already is a float switch, but it doesn't cut off on unless the water level is a little bit above the bottom of the aux drain. In this case, since the leak was there it was useless. I also think the side of the pan the float switch is in is also a little bit higher than the drain. I will try moving and adjusting the float switch so that less water would cut off the unit.

I've already put in the audible alarm, and hope to repipe the drains this weekend.

[FINER9998]

cpw..so your auxiliary drain pan had both a drain line and a cut off float switch?

[Bob D.]

wouldn't it be a better long term solution to have no drain from the auxiliary pan but equip it with a micro cut off float switch wired into the evaporator's control wiring? that way, if the primary pan drain clogged, causing condensate in the auxiliary pan, the unit would shut down completely until the problem of the clogged primary drain was rectified. this is a somewhat more complicated solution but it necessitates identifying the problem with the primary drain rather than just treating the auxiliary pan as a second primary pan. just my 2 cents.

This is how mine is wired up, but instead of a drain line mine
(being in the basement) drains into a condensate receiver tank with a pump that pumps the water outside. The receiver tank has a built-in float switch that is wired in parallel with the T-stat using the NC contact on the switch so that if the condensate pump fails and the level in the tank rises the switch contacts OPEN which blocks an AC start.

This may cause discomfort due to higher temps in the building, but that is your clue that something is wrong and needs attention.

Be cautious with regard to the leak and mold. Legionella is also a concern. (http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14805)

http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbviews/2000/legionnaire.asp

http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&lr=lang_en&newwindow=1&safe=active&q=legionella+and+plumbers

[cpw]

cpw..so your auxiliary drain pan had both a drain line and a cut off float switch?
Yes. The aux drain didn't do very much though because of the leak and the float switch wasn't triggered. grrr.

[FINER9998]

when mine was installed 2 years ago, the contractor explained that it was unwise to drain the auxiliary drain pan as it should never have water in it. if it did, that was symptomatic of a problem which shouold be diagnosed and resolved as soon as possible.

[cpw]

when mine was installed 2 years ago, the contractor explained that it was unwise to drain the auxiliary drain pan as it should never have water in it. if it did, that was symptomatic of a problem which shouold be diagnosed and resolved as soon as possible.
That seems relatively sensible to me, especially if you end up connecting the aux drain to the primary drain. How did your contractor route the drain line?

[cpw]

I did the project today. It actually took quite a while to do it, but most of that was actually dealing with insulation and not the drain. Pictures of the completed project.

I cut out the old aux drain pipe and connected it to the drip pan. The old pipe did have a rubber gasket like Ben said to use, but I didn't re-use it. I used silicon instead. The threaded pipe was attached on the inside using what looks like a strain relief connector for a junction box. The important part is that it doesn't leak anymore.
3657
The pipe then runs parallel to the main drain for a little bit. 3658
You can see the two couplings, which are where the aux drain connected to the primary drain. I couldn't easily cap the old tee, because there wouldn't be enough of the old pipe left over, so I just replaced about a 6" section. Joining PVC seems much easier than soldering; but these lines aren't under pressure so I can't be sure about that. :)

Then, it runs along a joist (strapped three times to maintain its position and pitch).
3661

And finally it terminates underneath the soffit. You can see drips from my son's window and also on the roof the the garage. You can't actually see the pipe itself from the ground though (I was afraid you would, which is why it is spray painted brown).
3659

I also have an audible alarm (it is not in the drip pan now, because I need to wait for my test water to evaporate).
3660

The float switch that I have in the pan doesn't actually float, otherwise this might never have been such a big deal. I am going to replace that, but if I can I would rather have an electronic water sensor than a float switch; since it seems that less can go wrong with fewer moving parts.

The real PITA wasn't the drain line, it was removing 7 insulation batts from underneath the air conditioner, wiping up any water, and then washing the sheetrock under the air conditioner with some Clorox cleanup. This sucked alot, because I needed to crawl on my belly over the joists and shimmy under the return air duct (at least it was flex and could be lifted a bit) to reach underneath the plywood that the unit sits on. Then I had to get the seven replacement batts in the cavities. At least for the first minute or so out of the package they are still a bit compressed, so the first two fit underneath the plywood more easily than the later ones.

Someone else posted that when they fix their house their wife asks if it is the way Mike Holmes would do it. I don't think I did it the way he would. My first thought is that he would hire an HVAC pro to replace the whole unit with some neato high efficiency zoned one. :) More seriously, he probably would have pulled the ceiling to reinsulate; but I didn't that it was really necessary and would have made this a much more expensive and labor intensive project. He probably would also route the primary drain to something other than the vent/waste stack.

[gear junkie]

It sounds and looks like from the pics like you did a great job. Where did the other pipe come out of roof at?

[cpw]

It sounds and looks like from the pics like you did a great job. Where did the other pipe come out of roof at?
It didn't. The original pipe (and now just the primary) terminates inside the main waste/vent stack. I did think about changing it, but in the end wasn't sure what I should do that would make it better in practice. I thought about tying into the downspouts, but figured that on humid rainy days they could get overwhelmed. The other thought I had was just dumping it out above the bush near the compressor, but didn't think that was very "neat".

[gear junkie]

It should be alright tying into the vent stack. Good job.

[FINER9998]

CPW...as my installation is a retro fit, the compresor was placed at the rear of my house with the air handler 2 1/2 stories up and roughly midway between the front and rear of the house in the attic. the refrigerant lines were run underground from the compressor to a point directly below the attic located air handler, where they were run vertically up the side of the house inside aluminum rain leaders for asthetics. the undergound run of the refrigerant lines were run inside 4" solid plastic drain pipe with drain holes along its bottom. this was surrounded by 3/4" stone and covered by landscape fabric to keep out soil. the primary condensate drain line exits the air handler into a p trap like the one in your photos. the pvc drain line runs via two 90 deg. turns to the point where the refirgerant lines exit the building side wall in the unfinished attic. the drin pipe runs down inside the leader along with the refrigerant lines and drains into the 4" pvc which protects the refrigerant lines from the earth surrounding it. as the condensate accumulates, it leaches into the 3/4" stone which surrounds the drain pipe and some cocndensate exits the 5 holes i drilled in the bottom of the 90 deg. elbow at the end of the 4" plastic run where it exits the soil at the compressor location.

if i were you, i would find a way to route the condensate pipe exiting the soffit to some relatively inconspicuous place and get it down to the grouond draining away from the house. just my 2 cents.

[gear junkie]

if i were you, i would find a way to route the condensate pipe exiting the soffit to some relatively inconspicuous place and get it down to the grouond draining away from the house. just my 2 cents.
Negative ghostrider. You want to see the drain so if the primary ever leaks, you can see the water come out of the auxilary drain.

[FINER9998]

so the problem with my set up, where there is no drain out of the auxiliary pan under my attic mounted air handler, said pan being equipped with a float type micro cut off which disables the a/c should the auxiliary pan accumulate any condensate, is .............?

FTR, i find the idea of drains from auxiliary pans counterproductive. should the primary clog causing condensate to accumulate in the auxiliary pan, a drain from the auxiliary pan would only allow a problem condition to continue. whereas a cutoff float switch in an auxiliary pan with no drain forces unit inspection as the accumulation of condensate in a place where there should be no condensation is indicative of a problem which should be addressed sooner rather than later.

[cpw]

so the problem with my set up, where there is no drain out of the auxiliary pan under my attic mounted air handler, said pan being equipped with a float type micro cut off which disables the a/c should the auxiliary pan accumulate any condensate, is .............?

FTR, i find the idea of drains from auxiliary pans counterproductive. should the primary clog causing condensate to accumulate in the auxiliary pan, a drain from the auxiliary pan would only allow a problem condition to continue. whereas a cutoff float switch in an auxiliary pan with no drain forces unit inspection as the accumulation of condensate in a place where there should be no condensation is indicative of a problem which should be addressed sooner rather than later.
Thought that assumes your cutoff switch works. Mine doesn't. It should be cutting off my unit right now, but it sinks instead of floating.

[gear junkie]

float switch is fine but it is an electrical piece of equipment that can fail. Redunancy is used to prevent damage where your pan has none. The highest price in damage I personally ever saw due to a clogged condensate drain was 54k. There was no overflow pan. The couple went on vaction for 3 weeks and came back to big problems. I'm sure others have seen worse.

Another point, not calling you stupid, but what are your qualifications; personal experience or are you an hvac tech? Before you get in a huff, my point being is piping the auxilary drain is taught to thousands of tech students, done in millions of homes that way, and was designed by people a lot smarter than me, you or the guy that installed your system. If you were(or I) knew a better way, we would be getting paid the big bucks instead of those guys. I'm not one to accept everything I'm told but I'm going to reinvent the wheel either.

[FINER9998]

not getting in any huff here but draining the auxiliary pan seems to create a situation where a problem could occur causing the primary to overflow but the unit would continue operating because the overflow would continue draining. this could go on for some time, correct? and could conceivably cause damage to the system. personally, i check the functioning of all the various domestic systems' controls regularly. (an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure). with a drained auxiliary pan, unless the operator made a point of checking the overflow pipe, he would never know there was a problem. whoever teaches the installation of an auxiliary pan drain is, i believe, making a mistake, notwithstanding a reason that has not yet been presented in this thread.

cpw...just out of curiousity, what is causing the primary pan to overflow into the auxiliary pan?

[cpw]

not getting in any huff here but draining the auxiliary pan seems to create a situation where a problem could occur causing the primary to overflow but the unit would continue operating because the overflow would continue draining. this could go on for some time, correct? and could conceivably cause damage to the system. personally, i check the functioning of all the various domestic systems' controls regularly. (an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure). with a drained auxiliary pan, unless the operator made a point of checking the overflow pipe, he would never know there was a problem. whoever teaches the installation of an auxiliary pan drain is, i believe, making a mistake, notwithstanding a reason that has not yet been presented in this thread.

cpw...just out of curiousity, what is causing the primary pan to overflow into the auxiliary pan?
The primary condensate line was plugged up. I snaked it out and it was fine. I also put some bleach down it, and when I cut out a section it was pretty darn clean.

I did replace my float switch, but the one I have doesn't float until there is enough water to drain into the auxilary pan. It is an ACS-2 from Little Giant Pump, which is actually the same model as my old one.

Does anyone know of a safety switch that detects moisture instead of floating, or a brand that you prefer instead of the little giant?

[gear junkie]

I use ez trap ezt-225. I saw little giant makes one called condelert that can detect 1/16" of water. I have no experience with this one though.

[Ruudacguy]

so the problem with my set up, where there is no drain out of the auxiliary pan under my attic mounted air handler, said pan being equipped with a float type micro cut off which disables the a/c should the auxiliary pan accumulate any condensate, is .............?

FTR, i find the idea of drains from auxiliary pans counterproductive. should the primary clog causing condensate to accumulate in the auxiliary pan, a drain from the auxiliary pan would only allow a problem condition to continue. whereas a cutoff float switch in an auxiliary pan with no drain forces unit inspection as the accumulation of condensate in a place where there should be no condensation is indicative of a problem which should be addressed sooner rather than later.

Everyone has their own opinions as to why they think their design is better. But if your float switch opened when it was 100 degrees outside and your service guy was booked solid and couldnt make it there for a few days, you might be re-thinking this setup.

Andy

[cpw]

I use ez trap ezt-225. I saw little giant makes one called condelert that can detect 1/16" of water. I have no experience with this one though.
Got the little Giant Condalert LC-210 and wired it in series with the float switch (so I am not depending on either moving mechanical parts or new-fangled electronics).

Two pictures, one of the unit and one of the wiring. The directions have it wired between the control panel and compressor (to just shut off the compressor); but my existing float switch just cuts power to RC on the thermostat which turns off both the compressor and fan. I left it this way, since it is a better indication that something isn't right. So now, the R power goes to my float switch, then the condalert, then to the t-stat.

[metal man]

stop being such a tightwad and call a professional out there to fix it for you. You should be able to get it fixed for 150.00 to
300.00 bills. Let the pros do the job they are trained for.

Cheapo

[k-doghvacspec.]

gear junkie is right.you need the main drain run to a p-trap, preferably the sewer and the auxiliary drain somewhere to the outside where it is visible to alert you that the main drain is stopped up.the evaporator coil could have a problem with the internal drain pan or the drain could just be stopped up.

[cpw]

gear junkie is right.you need the main drain run to a p-trap, preferably the sewer and the auxiliary drain somewhere to the outside where it is visible to alert you that the main drain is stopped up.the evaporator coil could have a problem with the internal drain pan or the drain could just be stopped up.
Gear was very helpful with this, he is really a great guy. I've got it exactly how you've described it now.

[cpw]

stop being such a tightwad and call a professional out there to fix it for you. You should be able to get it fixed for 150.00 to
300.00 bills. Let the pros do the job they are trained for.

Cheapo
Considering that there is $70 worth of parts in there, and it costs $80 to have someone show up to your house before fixing anything, I doubt that this would only cost $150-300.