Whose old pipes are they??

[dhstock]

In this day of recycling old copper pipes, if I have a repiping done, are the pipes that are removed mine or the plumbers??

[Service Guy]

They are yours unless otherwise stated in the contract.

I usually ask the owner if I can take them when I do the ripout, most say yes. But lately more people are keeping it for themselves since copper is so outrageously priced.

[Masterplumb]

They are yours. How much pipe are you talking about?

[dhstock]

We changed from PVC to copper from the street to house and had a T placed for outside watering (wanted high pressure to go to our "back forty" about 300') added a spiket (sp). This was 5 years ago. Pipe measured about 50'. The city is widening street and the contractor hit the pipe to house with back-hoe. They sent a plumber, he proceeded to roll up the pipe (he grabbed it before I could) and placed in his truck.
I asked him to return my pipe, he said it was his now. I told him it was in my property and it was mine, I paid for it and I wanted it. He refused. I called him a jerk.

I had a problem earlier in the week regarding a palm tree that was knocked over and some guy came and put in his truck. I went out and made him take it out, I was then told that anything that wasn't removed by the owner was fare game for the demo guys and they could do with it what they want.

Wasn't sure where the pipe issue fit. :D

[Masterplumb]

sounds like you got shafted.

[Bogart]

Legally, the pipe is yours. A lot of plumbers take it and don't say anything. I ask, unless it's DWV, then I just gangster it as small recompense for playing in poo.

[dhstock]

and "DWV" is short for what??

[DuckButter]

The fact that he refused to give it back while it sat in his truck is a bit audacious...you could technically charge him with larceny.
I wouldn't ordinarly make that suggestion, except that he chose to argue with you.
I generally just take the copper, unless the owner comments on the price of copper...to date I have yet to have any homeowner want to keep the copper, it's almost a traditional way of tipping a plumber.

D rainage W aste & V ent

[dhstock]

eeewwwww, :eek: re: DWV

I think I will call his company in the AM, place a complaint, then BBB, then licensing board.
His attitude was bad from the get go, he said he wasn't going to get paid for this job, and he had travelled an hour to get here (course he said he hit traffic so instead of a 2 hour wait it was 5 and he deserved the pipe).
That's when I called him a jerk, and he told me there were a lot of jerks around here. I almost called the police, but didn't as I had just called them 2 weeks before because I saw two guys stealing close to 400' of chain link fencing. Didn't catch them, I chased them in my car! Couldn't get close enough for plate #.
Evidently he is a sub for a contractor. So what I say!!

[Bob D.]

"it's almost a traditional way of tipping a plumber."

I'll have to try that the next time I get the oil changed in my truck. I'll let my mechanic keep the old oil filter and oil or the waiter keep the leftovers on my plate (well, technically my wifes not my plate, I don't usually leave anything behind, I eat it all).

Maybe
I cold talk the mailman into taking my brand new unopened junk mail as a tip. :)

[cpw]

"it's almost a traditional way of tipping a plumber."

I'll have to try that the next time I get the oil changed in my truck. I'll let my mechanic keep the old oil filter and oil or the waiter keep the leftovers on my plate (well, technically my wifes not my plate, I don't usually leave anything behind, I eat it all).
I don't know about as a tip, but they are required to give you back the old parts if you ask for them. :)

[DuckButter]

"it's almost a traditional way of tipping a plumber."

I'll have to try that the next time I get the oil changed in my truck. I'll let my mechanic keep the old oil filter and oil or the waiter keep the leftovers on my plate (well, technically my wifes not my plate, I don't usually leave anything behind, I eat it all).

Maybe
I cold talk the mailman into taking my brand new unopened junk mail as a tip. :)
Hey, I have approximately 100 lbs in my truck set for the salvage yard this week, maybe $300 is small potata's to you, but us wee workin' fella's like the little bit o extra loot every month or so!:rolleyes:

[DuckButter]

I don't know about as a tip, but they are required to give you back the old parts if you ask for them. :)
If I were to do a water heater replace for you, and you were to ask me for the several inches of 1/2" leftover scrap copper, you'd get an odd look.
For the $1.50 to $2.00 in scrap, if your willing to take the ride to the scrap yard for it...sure, all yours.

In the case of the o/p, yeah, he has a right to claim it, it's his.
The fact that the guy was so brazen about it is borderline criminal.

[toolaholic]

There's No way a homeowner's salvage copper is Your's. Unless it was agreed upon up front!
Like My Dad said " You can justify anything "

[BHD]

Legally, the pipe is yours. A lot of plumbers take it and don't say anything. I ask, unless it's DWV, then I just gangster it as small recompense for playing in poo.

Legally it is the home owners, it is his property unless you have made arrangements before you started to DO YOUR LABOR.
You were hired for a job not to rob the guy.
(If he considers it junk then clean it up for him if he wants. that should be HIS DECISION. NO YOURS).
I thought you got payed in money for playing in the POO.

remind me If I need a plumber to hire you and I will just give you the old pipe for playing in the POO,
And keep my money.

[cpw]

If I were to do a water heater replace for you, and you were to ask me for the several inches of 1/2" leftover scrap copper, you'd get an odd look.
For the $1.50 to $2.00 in scrap, if your willing to take the ride to the scrap yard for it...sure, all yours.

In the case of the o/p, yeah, he has a right to claim it, it's his.
The fact that the guy was so brazen about it is borderline criminal.
I wouldn't actually ask for it, but if I did I would expect to get it; unless we agreed on you keeping it in the first place.

The reason I replied auto parts is that it is the law at least here that the shop must return any old parts to you if you ask for them. The exception is if it is a warranty replacement and they need to return it to the manufacturer, they keep it but must make it available for inspection.

[PLUMBER RICK]

The city is widening street and the contractor hit the pipe to house with back-hoe. They sent a plumber, he proceeded to roll up the pipe (he grabbed it before I could) and placed in his truck.
I asked him to return my pipe, he said it was his now. I told him it was in my property and it was mine, I paid for it and I wanted it. He refused. I called him a jerk.


Wasn't sure where the pipe issue fit. :D

in my opinion, the contractor hit the pipe and they sent a plumber to fix it/ replace it. the contractor paid for the pipe and the repair. truthfully the pipe belongs to the contractor.

if you paid for the repair, then it's your's. you didn't pay for the repair.

many, many years ago on a job site, we had cored a hole in the deck. hit a large conduit with a long run of wires.

i figured if we had to pay the electrician for the repair, we own the wire that was damaged/ removed.

he kept it, we paid for his labor, not for the wire. that was years ago when copper was pretty cheap. today at $3.00 a pound scrap, it would have been a small fortune or aluminum.

rick.

[BHD]

in my opinion, the contractor hit the pipe and they sent a plumber to fix it/ replace it. the contractor paid for the pipe and the repair. truthfully the pipe belongs to the contractor.

if you paid for the repair, then it's your's. you didn't pay for the repair.

rick.

"if you paid for the repair, then it's your's. you didn't pay for the repair. "

I will agree to that statement

[dhstock]

I tend to agree with your atatement, will not be doing any calls regarding this.
BTW pipe leaking, so he has to come back out and he surely will be in a great mood....LOL :rolleyes:

Thanks for letting me vent (no pun intended) though, great bunch of guys.
Heidi

[BHD]

Just a word of caution, before going after a few dollars of scrap or some packing materials,
Even if you feel there yours for what ever the reason, it may be a big lost opportunity for your business, If you do not confer with the customer first.

Example: there was this builder of wood framed steel buildings at one time around here, he had a good business, until he started to demand the packing materials that the steel building kits came in,
The Farmers thought was I bought the building and everything that came with the building, The builder said I said I would build you a building for $XX,XXX and you have a building and the rest is mine,



Since the contracts from what I heard were not specific on the "scrap".
Regardless of who was right for a few dollars in some cover sheets and a few 2x boards.

For most farmers around here he lost any further opportunity to work for them,
and before he sold out he was traveling upward of 150 miles for jobs, as no one local would hire him as he was considered a thief, by many.

So a few words in the beginning or pointed out in a contract, could keep you a good paying customer and your reputation.

[DuckButter]

I wouldn't actually ask for it, but if I did I would expect to get it; unless we agreed on you keeping it in the first place.

The reason I replied auto parts is that it is the law at least here that the shop must return any old parts to you if you ask for them. The exception is if it is a warranty replacement and they need to return it to the manufacturer, they keep it but must make it available for inspection.
I don't often ask, any time in the past that I have I generally get an odd look as if I'm attempting to leave my trash behind.
What it boils down to is the fact that the average amount of copper I remove amounts to less than the gas you'd spend driving to a salvage yard...if a customer goes out of the way to ask for it, sure it's theirs.
What might amount to $1 to $2 per job adds up to $100 a month or two for me, but for each individual to have a few inches of copper sitting in their basement, it's silly to bother asking them.

If I'm repiping a copper water main, sure, thats different, but not at a rate of a few dollars worth per job...most homeowners consider that leaving my trash behind.

Another way of looking at this, If I demo old PVC pipe inside a plaster & lathe wall...do I have to ask the customer if they'd like to keep that as well?
Is it my obligation to leave the heaps of crushed plaster & lathe along with the scrap PVC?
I'd be delighted to, if it means I'm a thief I'd better stop taking that stuff.
I'd happily take the tradeoff of not having to dispose of the trash along with not getting the scrap copper.

[cpw]

I don't often ask, any time in the past that I have I generally get an odd look as if I'm attempting to leave my trash behind.
What it boils down to is the fact that the average amount of copper I remove amounts to less than the gas you'd spend driving to a salvage yard...if a customer goes out of the way to ask for it, sure it's theirs.
What might amount to $1 to $2 per job adds up to $100 a month or two for me, but for each individual to have a few inches of copper sitting in their basement, it's silly to bother asking them.

If I'm repiping a copper water main, sure, thats different, but not at a rate of a few dollars worth per job...most homeowners consider that leaving my trash behind.

Another way of looking at this, If I demo old PVC pipe inside a plaster & lathe wall...do I have to ask the customer if they'd like to keep that as well?
Is it my obligation to leave the heaps of crushed plaster & lathe along with the scrap PVC?
I'd be delighted to, if it means I'm a thief I'd better stop taking that stuff.
I'd happily take the tradeoff of not having to dispose of the trash along with not getting the scrap copper.
I'm not trying to argue with you, I think your position is perfectly reasonable.

If anyone really cares about it one way or another, the right time to discuss it is before the job starts. If everyone is up front and expectations are set right there shouldn't be any problems.

[HVAC HAWK]

i have done some boiler jobs where we took out the boiler and all the old pipe and put it to the side because thats what was agreed on at the start ,and if i dont know about this at the time it is my job to clean up the job before im done .

[stokefire7]

In this day of recycling old copper pipes, if I have a repiping done, are the pipes that are removed mine or the plumbers??yours

[ridgidpipe]

The pipe is yours if there was not an agreement in place from the start about the scrap.
The biggest problem I noticed with this whole discussion is the fact that the contractor argued with the homeowner about it instead of just giving it back. I normally will take the scrap as part of cleanup but if I am asked for it I would have no problem giving it to the homeowner and on bigger jobs as whole house water line replacement from copper to CPVC or main water lines from the street to the house I ask before hand if the homeowner wants it and would consider a part of the scrap value into my bid.
In my opinion the customer is always right and nothing hurts a business faster than getting bad word of mouth . Plus the fact that this plumber will definately get zero repeat business. Most of my work is repeat busness and referal which keeps the cost of advertising down to next to nothing.
be fair with people and stay working