back to back toilets

[se215]

do you think there will there be any venting or vacuum problems
if the 2 toilets are installed back to back with a double combo wye
with one 4" vent

[stokefire7]

what code is that mister ?

[se215]

philadelphia single stack with an ideal bend on the
bathroom group

[stokefire7]

nobody's hipped me to that lingo dude

[JCsPlumbing]

Tie the Lav. line into the tub line and use a 4" double san. tee.

Not combination.

J.C.

[se215]

wont a double san tee have more of chance to create a vacuum
than a double combo wye

[JCsPlumbing]

No.

J.C.

[NHMaster3015]

From what the drawing looks like, it will be fine. 4" vent is more than sufficient for two bathroom groups. If the toilets are blow out type you can not use a double san tee.

[ridgidpipe]

The best thing to do is ask the code official in your area before doing the work so that you have to only do the job once. sanitary tees are going to vent better than wyes but you have to know what kinda toilets that are going to be installed to see if it will be permitted . at least by our code

[se215]

thanks for all your answers so far
the toilets are regular toilets not pressure assisted or blow out type
so it seems like the double san tee is better

[PLUMBER RICK]

good luck when it comes time to snake/ auger that back to back toilet with a san tee.:smash:

a figure 5 or a twin figure 6 with baffle and cap the top of the riser, would be a better choice.

you can look up these fittings at www.tylerpipe.com (http://www.tylerpipe.com)

rick.

[Ace Sewer]

good luck when it comes time to snake/ auger that back to back toilet with a san tee.:smash:

a figure 5 or a twin figure 6 with baffle and cap the top of the riser, would be a better choice.

you can look up these fittings at www.tylerpipe.com (http://www.tylerpipe.com)

rick.

Oh shoot Rick, let him do it his way; when it backs up it'll be the perfect opprtunity for you to haul the k-60 up to the roof vent.

[se215]

thats why i am asking for your opinions...so i dont have any problems later

Rick...i cant find them fittings on that site
do they have a differant name or can you post a pic
and a drop head auger would not work on a double san tee?

[gear junkie]

good luck when it comes time to snake/ auger that back to back toilet with a san tee.:smash:

a figure 5 or a twin figure 6 with baffle and cap the top of the riser, would be a better choice.

you can look up these fittings at www.tylerpipe.com (http://www.tylerpipe.com)

rick.
What's the difference between these and a double wye 1/8 bend? Wouldn't these fitting cause a venting issue?

[HVAC HAWK]

1 question on the drawing should there be a vent on the lav and the tub :confused:

[se215]

the tub and lav lines are connected to a 4" ideal bend with (2) 1 1/2 taps,
no additional vents required as long as it is within 48" from the stack
which is legal here in philly...thats how 90% of the houses here are piped in
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/images/misc/progress.gif

[HVAC HAWK]

ok when i did plumbing on long island 18 years ago you needed a vent at the end of the line then the tub and toilet were wet vented

[PLUMBER RICK]

try this specific link to the figure fittings.

the figure 6 is avaliable in both single and double/ back to back, with baffle. the riser can be capped. it's designed for back to back on multi story installations.

the figure 5 is a fixture fitting and has no baffle.

http://www.tylerpipe.com/utility%20catalog%202007/pg12-13.pdf

rick.

please note the figure 6 is for vertical and the figure 8 is for horizontal.

[ToUtahNow]

What's the difference between these and a double wye 1/8 bend? Wouldn't these fitting cause a venting issue?

One is a sanitary fitting which is less likely to siphon the trap and other is not.

Mark

[JCsPlumbing]

Maybe I'm a little lost on how they do plumbing here. You have an S-trap drawn on the lavatory. Maybe you didn't intend it that way. But you state that you don't need another vent as long as it's 48" from the 4" stack?

How are you NOT going to have an S-trap at the lavatory without venting it individually. Vent it & connect it to the tub line.

Also, you show a toilet all by itself to the right of the brick wall. Gotta' have a lavatory in there somewhere.

I try to NOT have bathrooms working together on the DWV but rather working independently.

Do you really plumb for a living? Just curious about these different rules in Philly. :confused::rolleyes:

J.C.

[markts30]

Double fixture fitting might be a better choice...

[ora]

Used a figure five not a dubble santee and for sure not a dubble combo

[NHMaster3015]

The only reason a wye and 1/8 bend would cause a venting problem is if they were connected to a P trap, which can put the trap weir above the wye inlet. Since toilets have S traps and the trap weir is always going to be above the vent, it makes no difference. However, Rick has a very good point when it comes to cleaning out the line.

[gear junkie]

The only reason a wye and 1/8 bend would cause a venting problem is if they were connected to a P trap, which can put the trap weir above the wye inlet. Since toilets have S traps and the trap weir is always going to be above the vent, it makes no difference. However, Rick has a very good point when it comes to cleaning out the line.
Now I understand, thanks. Mark, I guess you had to break it down a little further for me.

[big ears]

do you think there will there be any venting or vacuum problems
if the 2 toilets are installed back to back with a double combo wye
with one 4" vent
I Would worry about the turds colliding
rgds Big ears

[se215]

Maybe I'm a little lost on how they do plumbing here. You have an S-trap drawn on the lavatory. Maybe you didn't intend it that way. But you state that you don't need another vent as long as it's 48" from the 4" stack?

How are you NOT going to have an S-trap at the lavatory without venting it individually. Vent it & connect it to the tub line.

Also, you show a toilet all by itself to the right of the brick wall. Gotta' have a lavatory in there somewhere.

I try to NOT have bathrooms working together on the DWV but rather working independently.

Do you really plumb for a living? Just curious about these different rules in Philly. :confused::rolleyes:

J.C.


yea i do plumbing for living
philadelphia has its own plumbing code...there are a lot of things different than the UPC that most of you follow...we are not allowed to use PVC underground-everything has to be cast iron(pack and poured lead joints)
no PVC in any commerical buildings,and the venting codes are very different than the UPC
look at drawing #1 this is right out of my code book

[JCsPlumbing]

yea i do plumbing for living
philadelphia has its own plumbing code...there are a lot of things different than the UPC that most of you follow...we are not allowed to use PVC underground-everything has to be cast iron(pack and poured lead joints)
no PVC in any commerical buildings,and the venting codes are very different than the UPC
look at drawing #1 this is right out of my code book

Thanks. Didn't know this. Not very familiar with UPC and obviously Philly. Does the UPC/Philly code allow S-trapping and toilet rooms without a lavatory? I'm seriously asking-not smarting off. :confused:

J.C.

[se215]

here is the drawing from our code book...i had to resize it
yes in philly we are allowed to use a s-trap
why wouldnt you be?
i dont know about the UPC ...i dont do much plumbing outside the city
and the bathroom on the right will have a lav with its own 1 1/2 stack
down to the 4" main drain, with a 1 1/2 vent through the roof...its not on the drawing i was looking for opinions on the toilets rough in

thanks for all your answers

[jjaplumbing]

Your drawing is fine. You will have no problems with that, as you stated about 90% of houses in Philly are piped that way. Your second toilet through the brick wall must be within 8 feet of the stack.

[se215]

thanks
i was going to use a double combo wye...i didnt think a double san tee was a good idea...
i am going to use a double fixture fitting(60 deg angle insted of combo wye 45)

[OBD]

thanks for all your answers so far
the toilets are regular toilets not pressure assisted or blow out type
so it seems like the double san tee is better

A four inch vent is too large, You can vent both toilets with a 2 inch vent. One of the problems will be if you are doing a permitted job it will be best to check with Your Local Plumbing Official due to geographical locations. I will look at your drawing and tell you more. I teach plumbing at night for an Apprenticeship Program. I teach the Florida Plumbing Code...I saw your flat drawing and will suggest that you put a two inch vent on the lavatory and not a four inch. This will allow you to put in a regular 3-5/8's rough wall saving space for your water piping.

[OBD]

here is the drawing from our code book...i had to resize it
yes in philly we are allowed to use a s-trap
why wouldnt you be?
i dont know about the UPC ...i dont do much plumbing outside the city
and the bathroom on the right will have a lav with its own 1 1/2 stack
down to the 4" main drain, with a 1 1/2 vent through the roof...its not on the drawing i was looking for opinions on the toilets rough in

thanks for all your answers

I teach the Florida Plumbing code which used to be the SBCCI Code (which is now called the IPC or International Plumbing Code) and the reason why using an "S" trap is illegal is because of wicking of the trap. Wicking is a form of Capillary Action. Its like putting a string from the dip of the trap and have it string itself over the weir. Since the waste arm is installed with pitch then it would wick the trap dry by capillary action.

[se215]

our code does not let us choke the vent ( 4" reduced down to 2")
if the stack is 4" it must stay 4" all the way through the roof

[OBD]

our code does not let us choke the vent ( 4" reduced down to 2")
if the stack is 4" it must stay 4" all the way through the roof
What is the dfu count that you guys use. I also think this may be due to the snow you guys get. I think....

[se215]

we use this table for fixture units (p-904.1)

[OBD]

we use this table for fixture units (p-904.1)

Our floor Drains have Zero dfu count due to them being used only in an emergency and not as regular used fixture. It also seems that your plumbing board that approves the codes haven't updated to the low flow consumption fixtures, have they? Do you use the low flow fixtures now?

[myakka]

OBD
Welcome to the wide world of multiple plumbing codes.:D
Mike

[JCsPlumbing]

OBD. I must be dyslexic. Everytime I see your name I think of the Wu Tang Clan. :dance:

J.C.

[MrsSeatDown]

OBD. I must be dyslexic. Everytime I see your name I think of the Wu Tang Clan. :dance:

J.C.

:rotflmao1:

[OBD]

I am at a loss for words. :icon_bike:

[myakka]

ODB oops OBD
If it makes you feel any better I had to Google "Wu Tang Clan".:o
Mike

[NHMaster3015]

ODB: I teach the 2nd year apprentice course up here, IPC. I also hold a Fla. masters license. The Philly code is very different than what most of the country deals with. In fact they even have names for the strange and wonderfull things they allow. Best I can figure is they don't see an s trap on a lav as a problem, because the lav gets used often enough to keep the trap full and the 4" vent probably lets enough air in to keep back siphoning to a minimum. That said, I'll bet that if you could go back in time the real reason had something to do with payoff's and graft :D