Lead & oakum joint w/CI stack

[DuckButter]

I did this job today and thought it a good idea to take a few pics as I recall some here may never have seen a lead & oakum joint.
We do alot of them here.
This one was a replacement on a CI stack that the previous homeowner had decided to cut in a laundry with PVC to add a laundry in the basement...problem is it's against code to put PVC under cast iron.
There was also a pretty bad leak at the lowest joint where the homeowner had used a resilient gasket with PVC into the older CI hub.

The laundry had no vent...so the basement stunk to high heaven..NOT exaggerating, it really stunk bad.

I forgot to get a pic of the stack before demo, but the first pic is before the lead pour, second pic is after it was poured & packed, third is the finished stack...c/o on bottom, 4" x 2" Tee-wye for the new laundry, then at the top a "4 x 3" wye for a third floor bath addition I just finished tonight.

[Masterplumb]

I did this job today and thought it a good idea to take a few pics as I recall some here may never have seen a lead & oakum joint.
We do alot of them here.
This one was a replacement on a CI stack that the previous homeowner had decided to cut in a laundry with PVC to add a laundry in the basement...problem is it's against code to put PVC under cast iron.
There was also a pretty bad leak at the lowest joint where the homeowner had used a resilient gasket with PVC into the older CI hub.

The laundry had no vent...so the basement stunk to high heaven..NOT exaggerating, it really stunk bad.

I forgot to get a pic of the stack before demo, but the first pic is before the lead pour, second pic is after it was poured & packed, third is the finished stack...c/o on bottom, 4" x 2" Tee-wye for the new laundry, then at the top a "4 x 3" wye for a third floor bath addition I just finished tonight.

Nice job with the inny and outy. That line around the joint sends shivers down my spine. Why the husky band, is that required?

[gear junkie]

Very nice, how long does it take to pour a joint start to finish?

[Masterplumb]

about 15 minutes

[NHMaster3015]

Provided you can find your tools. :D

[gear junkie]

How long does a horizontal joint take? How difficult is that? If anyone does one next time, could they show some pics? Never had to pour a lead joint (I know I'm a hack loser).

[Masterplumb]

There really isn't much of a difference between a vertical and horizontal joint. You just need the runner on a horizontal

[gear junkie]

I've seen the runner but how do you keep it tight against the joint so it doesn't leak out? The clamp is enough?

[Masterplumb]

I've seen the runner but how do you keep it tight against the joint so it doesn't leak out? The clamp is enough?

Yes. For the most part you try to get it as snug as possible then "clamp" it.

[DuckButter]

Nice job with the inny and outy. That line around the joint sends shivers down my spine. Why the husky band, is that required?
We're allowed to use two bands here, but I don't...not on drainage, venting maybe, but when I think of how often I've seen one clamp break I feel good at least knowing there are four, plus it really stiffens up the stack using the four bands.


NHMaster makes a VERY good and humorous point...
It took me all of 20 minutes to cut the piece and pack/pour the joint...finding my &^%$^%& lead kit took more on the line of 1/2 hour.

[DuckButter]

How long does a horizontal joint take? How difficult is that? If anyone does one next time, could they show some pics? Never had to pour a lead joint (I know I'm a hack loser).
Almost no time difference...just clamp at the top and pour..occasionally you get a little lip, but it breaks right off when you pack the edges.

[NorthernIllinoisPlumber]

you can also use plumbers putty if you dont have a running rope.

[Bob D.]

Almost no time difference...just clamp at the top and pour..occasionally you get a little lip, but it breaks right off when you pack the edges.

Give the joint runner a light tapping with your hammer all around to seat it against the edge of the hub and you'll get no leaks and a better formed joint.

[Killertoiletspider]

We're allowed to use two bands here, but I don't...not on drainage, venting maybe, but when I think of how often I've seen one clamp break I feel good at least knowing there are four, plus it really stiffens up the stack using the four bands.


NHMaster makes a VERY good and humorous point...
It took me all of 20 minutes to cut the piece and pack/pour the joint...finding my &^%$^%& lead kit took more on the line of 1/2 hour.

You would have to use a sission joint here, no hub bands are not allowed.

If I am using 4 inch pipe that isn't copper, it's cast iron hub and spigot.

[DuckButter]

you can also use plumbers putty if you dont have a running rope.
I have NEVER heard that before...I'm gonna try it.
Though it's alot more time consuming than a joint runner, I bet it'd come in handy when ya can't find the runner.


Bob, I do pack the runner in, but there's always those rough spots & divets in the CI hub where a lil' sneaks past.

[Killertoiletspider]

I have NEVER heard that before...I'm gonna try it.
Though it's alot more time consuming than a joint runner, I bet it'd come in handy when ya can't find the runner.


Bob, I do pack the runner in, but there's always those rough spots & divets in the CI hub where a lil' sneaks past.

If it is a four inch joint pour it cold if you are using putty, or use all five pounds out of the tub.

I much prefer perfecto joint runners.

[plumberscrack]

I soak my lead runner in cutting oil to keep it soft keep the lead from sticking to it. Also helps keeping tight to the cast.

[Plumbus]

I asked my uncle who turned out in the late 40's and another old timer who started before the war (both now deceased) which do you pack first? One said the inside row and the other said the outside row. Anyone have the definitive answer?

[wrench spinner]

I soak my lead runner in cutting oil to keep it soft keep the lead from sticking to it. Also helps keeping tight to the cast.

I used to use kerosene but at the prices of fuel ill bet cutting oil is cheaper

[NHMaster3015]

I've always set inside first then outside, but I was reading through an old plumbers handbook from the 20's and the book say's it doesn't matter which you do first.

I actually dug all my lead tools out a couple months back and wire wheeled them all and ground the mushrooms off the handles. They look like new now.
I wonder where i put them. ;)

By the way, If anyone wants to get a set Mephesto Tools sells them. They are a lot pricier than when I bought mine but then again what isn't.

[DuckButter]

You would have to use a sission joint here, no hub bands are not allowed.

If I am using 4 inch pipe that isn't copper, it's cast iron hub and spigot.
Ironic, Sissons are illegal here.

[plumberscrack]

At the risk of sounding unschooled.....what's a Sisson joint? :scratchhead:

Is it the same as a Kafer fitting?

Google didn't produce much

I may need a picture

Is it IPC approved?

[Killertoiletspider]

At the risk of sounding unschooled.....what's a Sisson joint? :scratchhead:

Is it the same as a Kafer fitting?

Google didn't produce much

I may need a picture

Is it IPC approved?

It can be seen here (http://www.charlottepipe.com/Products/productpage.asp?product=01846).

[plumberscrack]

I guess I am unschooled...wrong spelling :withstupid:

So how's it work?

[Killertoiletspider]

I guess I am unschooled...wrong spelling :withstupid:

So how's it work?

The hub is twice as deep as a normal hub, with a raised ridge at a normal hub's depth to act as an oakum stop, so that in can be slid onto the existing pipe and another section be put in below it and then the sission lowered into that hub. They can only be used vertically here.

[Herk]

More tips on lead pouring:

in wet weather, pour some oil in the joint to prevent the lead exploding when it hits the water.

For the horizontal pour, a little oakum stuffed in the Y made by the running rope will prevent lead running through it. And yes, tap the rope all the way 'round with a hammer to tighten it against the joint.

I was taught to caulk the inside of the joint first, but I don't believe it really matters, either.

Been a long time since I poured a joint. I still have ladles, irons, pots, but no burner. I even have a soldering iron used on lead flashings.

[DuckButter]

More tips on lead pouring:

in wet weather, pour some oil in the joint to prevent the lead exploding when it hits the water.

For the horizontal pour, a little oakum stuffed in the Y made by the running rope will prevent lead running through it. And yes, tap the rope all the way 'round with a hammer to tighten it against the joint.

I was taught to caulk the inside of the joint first, but I don't believe it really matters, either.

Been a long time since I poured a joint. I still have ladles, irons, pots, but no burner. I even have a soldering iron used on lead flashings.
The oil trick is new to me, thanks.
I've had to work on an underground storm drain that had ruptured under water with no realistic way of removing the water (water table)...the old timer with me just pulled out his lead wool and said "Sssshhhhh...you never saw this...".

[Killertoiletspider]

The oil trick is new to me, thanks.
I've had to work on an underground storm drain that had ruptured under water with no realistic way of removing the water (water table)...the old timer with me just pulled out his lead wool and said "Sssshhhhh...you never saw this...".

There is five pounds of it in my truck at all times.

[NHMaster3015]

The oil trick is new to me, thanks.
I've had to work on an underground storm drain that had ruptured under water with no realistic way of removing the water (water table)...the old timer with me just pulled out his lead wool and said "Sssshhhhh...you never saw this...".


Ah yes, lead wool topped off with silver colored silicone. Those were the good old days.;)

Better yet, ( and you didn't get this from me) lead wool and your torch to melt it in after you pack it. :D

[Herk]

I saw some oakum in the shop the other day when I was cleaning. There might still be some lead wool in there, too.

I've even made repairs (long ago) with oakum and plastic filler designed for the purpose.