febco 825y leak

[dema]

Hello new here to the forum found it by searching for some trouble shooting on a febco 825y this backflow preventer has been leaking out the discharge. I started looking real close and noticed that it only leaks when there is no flow through the 825.. but when there is flow it will stop leaking out the discharge. Is this something that can be repaired or will this need to be replaced. If im not mistaken this has been in use for over 15yrs. and has never been worked on.

[wrench spinner]

you should have someone in to rebuild the innards. In NY they are required to do so every 5 years. Yours may be dripping though out the relief port if there is a fluctuation in pressure on the City side of the RPZ (reduced pressure zone) Backflow Preventer. If a rebuild doesnt fix the problem have your plumber install a PRV or pressure reducing valve before the RPZ and it should fix the problem. You do have it tested every year as per the manufacturers recommendation correct?

[NHMaster3015]

There's a good chance it's leaking because you have a backflow situation. That's what the discharge does. Yoy really need the proper instrumentation to evaluate the valve properly. More times than I care to remember, backflow preventers have been totally re-built only to have the same problems.

[wrench spinner]

There's a good chance it's leaking because you have a backflow situation. That's what the discharge does. Yoy really need the proper instrumentation to evaluate the valve properly. More times than I care to remember, backflow preventers have been totally re-built only to have the same problems.

This could also just be fluctuating pressures on the city side of the backflow.... wouldnt a PRV to stabalize the pressure address this? I could be wrong though

[Masterplumb]

We've used double checks to stablize fluctuating pressure.

[NHMaster3015]

Absolutly, a PRV is definatly needed if the city pressure fluctuates. My company has contracts to test and repair municipal backflow preventers for three cities. Many times we will be called it to service a supposedly bad back flow valve that is leaking from the over flow. 9 times out of ten the valve is not the problem, it is doing it's job. That's why on the larger sizes the discharge is often square or has no threads so that a pipe can not be attached and the discharge will be noticed. I have a rule that no one touches a BFP untill the gauges have been put to it. By the way, rebuilding a BFP without testing it afterwards is a waste of time, even if is doesn't leak.

[PLUMBER RICK]

typically there is a spec of dirt / rust under the second check valve inbedded into the rubber seat washer.

depending on the size, it can have a decent spring that can launch out if your're not aware of its workings. usually on 3'' and larger be very careful.



rick.

[dema]

you should have someone in to rebuild the innards. In NY they are required to do so every 5 years. Yours may be dripping though out the relief port if there is a fluctuation in pressure on the City side of the RPZ (reduced pressure zone) Backflow Preventer. If a rebuild doesnt fix the problem have your plumber install a PRV or pressure reducing valve before the RPZ and it should fix the problem. You do have it tested every year as per the manufacturers recommendation correct?

its been about a yr, now that it was tested and was good. i did take off the caps and on the 1st check the rubber seat was like chewed up. it cant be sealing good. the 2ed was in good shape...

[PLUMBER RICK]

its been about a yr, now that it was tested and was good. i did take off the caps and on the 1st check the rubber seat was like chewed up. it cant be sealing good. the 2ed was in good shape...

replace both rubber seat washers. also check the seat surface for scarring and pitting. if bad, you need to replace them.

rick.

[wrench spinner]

What size is the RPZ?

[Plumbducky]

Make sure you test the bfp before you continue with your repairs, Like others have said, you may have a backflow condition or it needs to be rebuilt. After the rebuild make sure it is tested and have the report sent to the local authorities having jursidiction.

[NHMaster3015]

I've said thios before, but I'll say it again, only because I am a certified BFP tester. No one, not even a licensed master plumber with 50 years experiance. Not even the guy that designed the valve, should ever, ever lay a hand on it without having test equipment and knowing how to use it. Anything else is hit or miss and you can be held liable if you get it wrong. That's why we are required to be certified, and all test results go to the state. Yes it may have dirt under the seat, yes it was tested a year ago and it's ok, yes maybe the diaghpragm is ratty, and yes it does not take a rocket scientist to replace the parts. But when you get through how do you know the valve is operating properly? Just because it stopped leaking means nothing. The test guages are damn expensive, and getting certified is a pain also, but well worth the expense.

[plumberjr]

Replace the garbage febco with a quality wilkins 975 xl

[ToUtahNow]

I've said thios before, but I'll say it again, only because I am a certified BFP tester. No one, not even a licensed master plumber with 50 years experiance. Not even the guy that designed the valve, should ever, ever lay a hand on it without having test equipment and knowing how to use it. Anything else is hit or miss and you can be held liable if you get it wrong. That's why we are required to be certified, and all test results go to the state. Yes it may have dirt under the seat, yes it was tested a year ago and it's ok, yes maybe the diaghpragm is ratty, and yes it does not take a rocket scientist to replace the parts. But when you get through how do you know the valve is operating properly? Just because it stopped leaking means nothing. The test guages are damn expensive, and getting certified is a pain also, but well worth the expense.

In the areas I work any plumber/owner is allowed to repair them but then a tester has to certify them. That being said I only had one customer who wanted to repair his own. After a while he got tired of it through as I would show up fail the assembly then charge him a second (or third or forth) time to come back.

Mark

[DuckButter]

In the areas I work any plumber/owner is allowed to repair them but then a tester has to certify them. That being said I only had one customer who wanted to repair his own. After a while he got tired of it through as I would show up fail the assembly then charge him a second (or third or forth) time to come back.

Mark
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[plumberjr]

In ohio-- you cant even look at a backflow without a state license--all have to be tested 1 x per year--no homeowner or plumber can touch without a license--
also if you have a fast closing valve downstream--maybe a sprinkler valve??--it will intermittently spit every time the valve operates-- i solve this by installing a soft seated check valve downstream of the device-- always works

if it is always leaking,non stop--rick is right--the #2 check is torn or worn or has debris on it---- most devices have reversible disks and u can flip them over

if you dont want problems---swap it out for a wilkins 975 xl;);)

[SlimTim]

In ohio-- you cant even look at a backflow without a state license--all have to be tested 1 x per year--no homeowner or plumber can touch without a license--
also if you have a fast closing valve downstream--maybe a sprinkler valve??--it will intermittently spit every time the valve operates-- i solve this by installing a soft seated check valve downstream of the device-- always works

if it is always leaking,non stop--rick is right--the #2 check is torn or worn or has debris on it---- most devices have reversible disks and u can flip them over

if you dont want problems---swap it out for a wilkins 975 xl;);)


The #1 check could also be fouled.

I like the Wilkins but I've had two this year with a bad seat under the #2 check. One was cracked and the other just crumbled.

[NHMaster3015]

They are more expensive but I like the Watts 909. Ok, the factory is practically in my back yard and the rep is a friend of mine.

[JCsPlumbing]

Would an RPZ be necessary if a sprinkler system had it's own dedicated meter with dual checks in the meter?

J.C.

[boillerman]

RPZ or PRV, yes. Leaky reliefs like this are as often as not leaky first checks. Cheaper to have the guy testing it fix it too, since his truck charge is usually going to be built into his test fee. By the way, I hate the Wilkins 975's.

[ridgidpipe]

In ohio-- you cant even look at a backflow without a state license--all have to be tested 1 x per year--no homeowner or plumber can touch without a license--
also if you have a fast closing valve downstream--maybe a sprinkler valve??--it will intermittently spit every time the valve operates-- i solve this by installing a soft seated check valve downstream of the device-- always works

if it is always leaking,non stop--rick is right--the #2 check is torn or worn or has debris on it---- most devices have reversible disks and u can flip them over

if you dont want problems---swap it out for a wilkins 975 xl;);)
Trying to figure out your comment
A state licensed plumber in Ohio can instal a backflow device but you need the backflow certification in order to inspect the device

[boillerman]

In ohio-- you cant even look at a backflow without a state license--all have to be tested 1 x per year--no homeowner or plumber can touch without a license--
also if you have a fast closing valve downstream--maybe a sprinkler valve??--it will intermittently spit every time the valve operates-- i solve this by installing a soft seated check valve downstream of the device-- always works

if it is always leaking,non stop--rick is right--the #2 check is torn or worn or has debris on it---- most devices have reversible disks and u can flip them over

if you dont want problems---swap it out for a wilkins 975 xl;);)

I don't know if you test, jr, but if you did you might not like the Wilkins so much. The check just upstream of the device works better, holds the pressure in the first chamber to a more consistent level.

[plumberjr]

You are supposed to have a backflow license to install and test--most cities dont follow this yet, but try to put one in in elyria--he will threaten to keep you from working there-by the book, your supposed to have the license to put it in-- read the book--ALSO just did a job in geneva and i had to put it in--they would not let our install plumbers do it--wadsworth is this way too--he actually came out to watch me test and asked me a million questions-like he wasnt sure if i had someone else do the work

[plumberjr]

And yes i test about a day and a half per week---the wilkins rep is a good friend
it just seems like im failing more watts and replacing more watts devices ---i see pretty much half wilkins-half watts---very rarely do i see a conbraco or febco. Ames are always on the fire line though-- and the threaded cams are pretty easy to replace,but very expensive

[Plumbducky]

In Wisconsin, a plumber can install the rp but it has to be tested by someone who has a cross connection control tester licsense.