Reasonable cost to replace drain line?

[jrowler]

We had our drain pipe snaked (again) and were told the 45 year-old 2" cast iron part of the run really needs to be replaced, as it is severely blocked and starting to leak in places. I'm wondering what a reasonable price might be to have this done. We're in north LA county, where plumbers seem to keep busy--at least in our area. Here is the job:

1) Remove 70-80' of 2" cast iron and replace with ABS.
2) All of it is in the U-shaped crawlspace under the house, which is tight but navigable.
3) Access is through an opening in the master bedroom closet (have to keep things clean).
4) Pipe can be removed, supplied through one of the vents in the side of the house.
5) The run starts beneath a deepsink in the garage, makes a turn past the kitchen at the back of the house, turns again to pick up a cleanout line, tub and sink in the master bedroom, then merges into 3" cast iron; the job ends at the merge.

I'm hoping to find out what a reasonable price range might be before I make my calls. Is this an acceptable question for this forum?

[PLUMBER RICK]

We had our drain pipe snaked (again) and were told the 45 year-old 2" cast iron part of the run really needs to be replaced, as it is severely blocked and starting to leak in places. I'm wondering what a reasonable price might be to have this done. We're in north LA county, where plumbers seem to keep busy--at least in our area. Here is the job:

1) Remove 70-80' of 2" cast iron and replace with ABS.
2) All of it is in the U-shaped crawlspace under the house, which is tight but navigable.
3) Access is through an opening in the master bedroom closet (have to keep things clean).
4) Pipe can be removed, supplied through one of the vents in the side of the house.
5) The run starts beneath a deepsink in the garage, makes a turn past the kitchen at the back of the house, turns again to pick up a cleanout line, tub and sink in the master bedroom, then merges into 3" cast iron; the job ends at the merge.

I'm hoping to find out what a reasonable price range might be before I make my calls. Is this an acceptable question for this forum?

this is a job that 1 person can do, but 2 is easier as the old pipe needs to be removed from under the house. sounds like it involves a few fixtures and tees/ wyes.
$1200-$1500 for 2 guys and 4 hours of work. the material is inexpensive. the labor is the factor.
there will be companies that are a lot higher and companies that are a lot less.

get a few referrals from friends and neighbors. don't just call random companies that advertise. make sure the price includes the removal of the old pipe and trash.

are you sure the pipe is not cleanable and leaking? has it been properly snaked or jetted?

do you feel comfortable with the original diagnosis?

rick.

[drtyhands]

this is a job that 1 person can do, but 2 is easier as the old pipe needs to be removed from under the house. sounds like it involves a few fixtures and tees/ wyes.
$1200-$1500 for 2 guys and 4 hours of work. the material is inexpensive. the labor is the factor.
there will be companies that are a lot higher and companies that are a lot less.

get a few referrals from friends and neighbors. don't just call random companies that advertise. make sure the price includes the removal of the old pipe and trash.

are you sure the pipe is not cleanable and leaking? has it been properly snaked or jetted?

do you feel comfortable with the original diagnosis?

rick.

Go for it Rick.
Oh,And by the way there is only 11" of space clear between floor joist and grade making the building main buried three and a half feet deep.

Sight unseen?
I'm going with $40,000:eek:

:)
Adam

[PLUMBER RICK]

Go for it Rick.
Oh,And by the way there is only 11" of space clear between floor joist and grade making the building main buried three and a half feet deep.

Sight unseen?
I'm going with $40,000:eek:

:)
Adam

i figured that i was going to use you for the tight spots.

no in and out double doubles until we're done:D

rick.

[westcoastplumber]

Hopefully you remove the 3" x 2" tie in. Very important. Most of the problems happen in that fitting before it drops into the main.

Estimating over the computer, sight unseen, in my mind, very unprofessional and hard to do.

How many verticles tie in? changes the price

You said "Closet Access" the room and hallway to the door have to be papered up, plumbers come out of the crawlspace very dusty. how much needs to be covered? changes the price

verticles also?? changes the price

tight crawl? changes the price

Many things change the price, in my mind, to give a proper professional estimate, one would have to see the job.

Make sure you get pictures of your current pipe. the plumber should have a digital camera and printer in his vehicle to supply you with correct information. :D

my guess $100-$30,000

[jrowler]

I didn't ask for an estimate, just some idea what might be reasonable--I won't be calling Rick in to do the job based on his post! :) Rereading my post I can say there are no surprises other than I should have placed a bit more emphasis on 'tight' over 'navigable', but I have strung phone line, TV cable, etc down there myself, though with lots of cussing and aches and pains.

Yes, I'm comfortable with the diagnosis, as it explains why the line needs snaking every six months or so and has been slowly getting worse. The plumber was only able to clear it this time using a 1" tip--the round spring kind, no hope with the blade type. He has promised to show me the buildup in the old pipes once they're out. Plus when I mentioned the leaking I should have noted that it is coming from rusty spots on the underside of the pipe, so it would appear the pipe is on its last legs.

I appreciate and respect all three responses. Rick's gives me the warm fuzzy feeling I was hoping for. The guy I've used for years to do the snaking quoted $1600 and one day to do the job with his helper. Since this is close to Rick's range, prices in my area tend to be high, and I trust my guy to do a good job, I will probably go with him. Includes permit and replacing the 3" x 2" tie-in.

Many thanks.

[Masterplumb]

There would be no way I would crawl around in a crawl space for a full day for $1200.

[gear junkie]

Why don't you get a dedicated drain cleaner(not always a plumber) who can clean out your line and do a camera inspection. At least with the camera you'll know what's needed instead of speculating.

[DuckButter]

To Jrowler,
If the estimate is higher than Ricks...call Rick and have him do it for the price he mentioned, solution is simple!

$12 to $1500 for 70-80 feet of 2" CI removal in a crawlspace...please tell the plumbers estimating the work you got that for a bid...let us know the response.

[Ready Plumbing]

Call me! Call me!


Are you a plumber. This sound like some previous posts from another plumber.

80 feet of 2 inch pipe at HD is about $48. Add another 30 bucks for couplings.
One plumber said $1500. $1500 - $100 materials = $1400 / 4 hours = $350 per hour. Wow!

[westcoastplumber]

quote=Ready Plumbing;157828]Call me! Call me!


Are you a plumber. This sound like some previous posts from another plumber.

80 feet of 2 inch pipe at HD is about $48. Add another 30 bucks for couplings.
One plumber said $1500. $1500 - $100 materials = $1400 / 4 hours = $350 per hour. Wow![/quote]



Who are you? Are you a licensed, insured plumber or a handyman hack willing to work for nuts? Drains that last a lifetime should cost a little money.

You have no clue what your cost of business is? or you are just a hack.

People like you are killing the trade.

I thought Ricks price was a bit low, considering the trash removal and the closet access, the removal and replacement of the 3 x 2 wye. and running of 80' in an 11" crawlspace.



Ready, you must be hard up for work.

[Ready Plumbing]

I charge only $95 an hour and I use my friend's license. Man! You sure are mean! My friend will take out my permits (maybe $60) so maybe whole job cost only $500 or $600.

[westcoastplumber]

I charge only $95 an hour and I use my friend's license. Man! You sure are mean! My friend will take out my permits (maybe $60) so maybe whole job cost only $500 or $600.



I know a Ready Plumbing out of Long Beach, I have seen his or his employee's work, I was not impressed, to the fact that the guy showing me the pics had to cut out all Ready's work.

If you are working under his license, and doing this crap work, your destroying what little reputation he has.

Like I said, people like you are destroying the trade out here and because of that, the next generation will not want to work in it.

Hack! $600 leach.

[westcoastplumber]

Man! You sure are mean!


I run a legitimate plumbing company in the south bay. I support my family and I run a strong company. I am not some guy using someone elses license to get a quick buck.

Has nothing to with being "Mean"

[drtyhands]

There would be no way I would crawl around in a crawl space for a full day for $1200.
Agree in full.
Especially after taking out helpers wages.

[rick1643]

WTF? who are you? Are you a licensed, insured plumber or a handyman hack willing to work for nuts? Drains that last a lifetime should cost a little money.

You have no clue what your cost of business is? or you are just a hack.

Scum like you are killing the trade.

I thought Ricks price was a bit low, considering the trash removal and the closet access, the removal and replacement of the 3 x 2 wye. and running of 80' in an 11" crawlspace. you must be hard up for work.


Sounds like a wannabe plumber that doesn't want to go by the rules. No license, no insurance...no overhead. And when the job goes bad, your going to take your friend down with you.

[Ready Plumbing]

Dude! I'm in L A. Mi much trabajo! Sel mi amigos drenage outs por casa $250. How cum you mucho deniro?

[ToUtahNow]

Is it possible City Girl, Victorina, Lenoard, Jack. Art's Cabinets and Bestiine I through IV has a new username or two?

Mark

[wrench spinner]

Is it possible City Girl, Victorina, Lenoard, Jack. Art's Cabinets and Bestiine I through IV has a new username or two?

Mark

Thats the same taste that I had in my mouth especially when he brought out the $350 an hr.

[drtyhands]

I charge only $95 an hour and I use my friend's license. Man! You sure are mean! My friend will take out my permits (maybe $60) so maybe whole job cost only $500 or $600.

Welcome to the forum R/P

Don't worry about Westcoast.
He's been having a pituitary gland problem.Doctor's trying to medicate him to get the growing pains to die down.
;)

[westcoastplumber]

Dude! I'm in L A. Mi much trabajo! Sel mi amigos drenage outs por casa $250. How cum you mucho deniro?



Figures. Need I say more? :confused:



Almost end of lunch, time to get back to work.

[westcoastplumber]

Welcome to the forum R/P

Don't worry about Westcoast.
He's been having a pituitary gland problem.Doctor's trying to medicate him to get the growing pains to die down.
;)



Don't worry about Adam, he is still a bit lost. :rolleyes: :lmao:

[gear junkie]

Dude! I'm in L A. Mi much trabajo! Sel mi amigos drenage outs por casa $250. How cum you mucho deniro?
This I've never understood; why cuss someone out in a language where they can't understand you?

[drtyhands]

Don't worry about Adam, he is still a bit lost. :rolleyes: :lmao:

And hopefully always will be in certain eyes.
:thumbup2:

[NHMaster3015]

I'm just sittin here laughing like a fool.:D

I'm trying to imagine anyone daft enough to wedge themselves in a spider infested crawlspace, hack out 40' or so of cast iron pipe and re-install new ABS for under $1,500.00 bucks. Why in gods name would you do that to yourself? Tell you what. If you will do that job for 600 bucks, and do it right I will sub contract you and spend my winters on the Riviera and my summers in Spain. You can reach me on my yacht at 1 800-thank you.

[Service Guy]

I'm just sittin here laughing like a fool.:D

I'm trying to imagine anyone daft enough to wedge themselves in a spider infested crawlspace, hack out 80 feet or so of cast iron pipe and re-install new ABS for under $1,500.00 bucks. Why in gods name would you do that to yourself? Tell you what. If you will do that job for 600 bucks, and do it right I will sub contract you and spend my winters on the Riviera and my summers in Spain. You can reach me on my yacht at 1 800-thank you.

Fixed that for you.

[Service Guy]

Call me! Call me!


Are you a plumber. This sound like some previous posts from another plumber.

80 feet of 2 inch pipe at HD is about $48. Add another 30 bucks for couplings.
One plumber said $1500. $1500 - $100 materials = $1400 / 4 hours = $350 per hour. Wow!

The materials wold cost a lot more than that...what about all the fittings and support-hangers? And 4 hours would not be enough time, it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.
Plumber rick said two guys-4 hours, and he is wishful thinking a bit imo...it would probably take longer in reality.

[Ready Plumbing]

I been from Mexicali onli 1 yeir. yous to make only 1000 pesos day. Neid tu learn Gringo money. Not can learn from bad people.

Hector say, tank u por muy caliente gracias.

[Ready Plumbing]

[quote=westcoastplumber;157846]Figures. Need I say more? :confused:



What figure u talk racisto nada bueno. I nada speak nada bout u. Mi engelese no bueno mi still nada stupido comprendo.

[DUNBAR]

What the hell is wrong with the west coast lately?


All these spammers/or just one guy with an excuse to trash this forum, and because some members met them that it's okay?


I don't think so. This board is in need of moderation and banning a list of IP's to get this forum back to where it was a few weeks ago, uninterrupted.


Give Josh a break, he can't babysit this board and let it run rampant just because you all visited the spammer that's not putting this site in its best interest. Spam is spam whether you know the guy or not. I can see it getting out of hand real quick if every spammer offers dinner to select members to buy confidence from talking heads amoungst us.

And I still don't buy the bullshit. There is a market average in everyone's area and you either run in those guidelines or you stick your head above and see what the reaction is.

All these new usernames and fancy software that'll make ya a millionaire blowing people's head off charging $340 an hour to rebuild a toilet, it's not what ridgid represents to the group. I start doing that in my town and the state of Kentucky will have my *** on a platter for charging excessively above the given rule of contractor to client representation.

Just sticking up for ya Josh, I know you like all these guys and I do too, but this stuff is really taking over in a bad light.

Let the force be with you, let the ban button be your friend.

[plumberscrack]

Dunbar is my new hero!

[Twicepipes]

He's been having a pituitary gland problem.


Funny. I haven't heard or used that word since high school health class.

[Arts Cabinets]

I received a call from someone asking if I have anything to do with these posts. I have asbolutely nothing do do with them.

I did not start this thread and have nothing to do with it.

The problem I see with this forum is not the new members like me. The entire problem is the way the old members (certainly not everyone) bash the new members because they disagree.

The forum (Josh) needs to set some rules and oust the old members who use abbreviations for profanity.

This is embarassing to the plumbing profession. There is no excuse for beating up Ready Plumbing the way someone did.

Restricting or screening members is not going to make a difference. I was in the Plumber's Discussion List over 12 years ago. You had to get approved to get in and they had the exact same problem with the way people bashed each other. The only difference was the public (not knowingly) could access the posts. If we need to hide what we post, then perhaps we are not saying the right things.

I was trying really hard to concentrate on my business. I have nothing to do with this thread. I have to use my alias after being implicated in this mess.

Try asking poor Ready Plumbing a few questions rather than telling him what he is. Make some rules for all members. Stop blaming the newbies for the problems. I am not your problem.

Jack

[TOPDAWG]

I received a call from someone asking if I have anything to do with these posts. I have asbolutely nothing do do with them.

I did not start this thread and have nothing to do with it.

The problem I see with this forum is not the new members like me. The entire problem is the way the old members (certainly not everyone) bash the new members because they disagree.

The forum (Josh) needs to set some rules and oust the old members who use abbreviations for profanity.

This is embarassing to the plumbing profession. There is no excuse for beating up Ready Plumbing the way someone did.

Restricting or screening members is not going to make a difference. I was in the Plumber's Discussion List over 12 years ago. You had to get approved to get in and they had the exact same problem with the way people bashed each other. The only difference was the public (not knowingly) could access the posts. If we need to hide what we post, then perhaps we are not saying the right things.

I was trying really hard to concentrate on my business. I have nothing to do with this thread. I have to use my alias after being implicated in this mess.

Try asking poor Ready Plumbing a few questions rather than telling him what he is. Make some rules for all members. Stop blaming the newbies for the problems. I am not your problem.

JackOK here is a question for Ready Plumbing, Do you have a GREEN CARD?? Also could you please learn English and spelling so we know what you are trying to say!! I'm sure that you guys in California can understand this Mexican stuff but us folks in Ohio don't have a clue what he is saying!! God Bless America and Illegal Immigrants as they take away the jobs of tax paying Americans!!!!!

[DuckButter]

When a new member enters the professional plumbing forum and openly boasts of unlicensed work to the licensed plumbers who have bled to get where they are, there's going to be adversity.

Jack, Leonard or whatever your name is, pardon the rude treatment of the newbie, but I for one would be perfectly happy to see him go.
New members don't get adverse treatment for no reason...simply ask many of the newer regulars, Service Guy, JCPlumbing, NHMaster, Masterplumb, SlimTim (as long as it's NOT a river birch!) or any of the members I've seen join this forum in the last year...everyone who's legitimate and respectful has been greeted with open arms on this forum.

As for Ready Plumbing...I really hope this guy realizes his "helper" just threw him in front of the bus...it wouldn't be surprising to hear the local board got a call regarding his biz practices.

My states website is inundated with the names of fools who have opted to allow unlicensed guys to illegally work under their licenses, our board does not take that lightly.

[TOPDAWG]

Nicely worded DuckButter

[Service Guy]

Sometimes I think Duckbutter is my long lost twin brother. Good post.:clapping:

[westcoastplumber]

Sometimes I think Duckbutter is my long lost twin brother. Good post.:clapping:


Hey, you told me the same thing :mad: Geeze, how many long lost brothers you have??

[DuckButter]

The materials wold cost a lot more than that...what about all the fittings and support-hangers? And 4 hours would not be enough time, it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.
Plumber rick said two guys-4 hours, and he is wishful thinking a bit imo...it would probably take longer in reality.

Some have mentioned two factors we have absolutely NO way of knowing here...
Number of connections to the 2" & height of the crawlspace.
Giving a homeowner a price online will often give that homeowner a subconscious license to expect that as a price.

If there are half a dozen hard to reach connections and the space is 18" all the way...do you really think crawling along on your back that this job could be done in a day along with testing & inspection?

I constantly come in contact with disillusioned homeowners who conveniently guage the ballpark price on whatever resources they can get their hands on.
Tell this guy $1200 to $1500 and I guarantee you he'll only remember the $1200 figure...then when the real life plumbers give him estimates for $3 to $4k, he'll continue to look for that $1200 figure.

I won't discuss the cost of replacing a faucet online, nevermind something like this, not in an open forum where I could be cutting the throats of others in area's where prices could be completely different than mine.

[Service Guy]

Hey, you told me the same thing :mad: Geeze, how many long lost brothers you have??

Maybe we were triplets or more! More likely its just that I happen to think along the same lines as you guys, since we have similar businesses and values in life. Plumbing is a brotherhood. :party-time:

[jrowler]

Interesting for an civilian to see how pros feel about this.

One correction: not an 11" crawl space. 24" in some places but watch for the nails sticking through the subflooring, 18" in others, pipes in the way requiring over-or-under decision. I used to wear elbow and knee pads and crawl like a soldier under machine gun fire. It was ok ten years ago, but not anymore at my age.

[Service Guy]

Some have mentioned two factors we have absolutely NO way of knowing here...
Number of connections to the 2" & height of the crawlspace.
Giving a homeowner a price online will often give that homeowner a subconsacious license to expect that as a price.

If there are half a dozen hard to reach connections and the space is 18" all the way...do you really think crawling along on your back that this job could be done in a day along with testing & inspection?

I constantly come in contact with disillusioned homeowners who conveniently guage the ballpark price on whatever resources they can get their hands on.
Tell this guy $1200 to $1500 and I guarantee you he'll only remember the $1200 figure...then when the real life plumbers give him estimates for $3 to $4k, he'll continue to look for that $1200 figure.

I won't discuss the cost of replacing a faucet online, nevermind something like this, not in an open forum where I could be cutting the throats of others in area's where prices could be completely different than mine.

Thats a great point. I almost didn't reply at all to this thread for the same reasons as you point out. Plumber rick made it sound easy without even looking at it. Big mistake. My own estimate also could be way off, I always tell my customers that I will not give any realistic pricing until I have physically seen the job!

[DuckButter]

Sometimes I think Duckbutter is my long lost twin brother. Good post.:clapping:

If you've never talked to Robert you'd be VERY surprised...you two have alot in common as well.

[DuckButter]

Thats a great point. I almost didn't reply at all to this thread for the same reasons as you point out. Plumber rick made it sound easy without even looking at it. Big mistake. My own estimate also could be way off, I always tell my customers that I will not give any realistic pricing until I have physically seen the job!


I want to be clear, Rick has his forte's.
We all do.
Not looking to beat him up here, but thats a pet peeve of mine...offering free advice or prices online might seem like a "nice" thing to do, but it's a recipe for disaster.

Ask Rick what stem belongs in a 30 yr old discontinued/obsolete faucet and he could tell you where to buy it, for how much the part will cost from memory alone...he has his strengths and I'm not trying to simply lash out at him blindly.

I just don't understand the thinking behind quoting even a ballpark price to a homeowner for a job like this online, it's impossible to know the variables.

[DuckButter]

Interesting for an civilian to see how pros feel about this.

One correction: not an 11" crawl space. 24" in some places but watch for the nails sticking through the subflooring, 18" in others, pipes in the way requiring over-or-under decision. I used to wear elbow and knee pads and crawl like a soldier under machine gun fire. It was ok ten years ago, but not anymore at my age.

Thats the point, this isn't like working out in the open...it'll have to be done on the back of whoever does it...and that won't happen in a day.
The plumber(s) will have to drag tools, fittings, pipe, dsrtop light and extension cord with CI snap cutter or electric grinder along with him.
70-80 feet of this isn't easy, not at all.

[Killertoiletspider]

this is a job that 1 person can do, but 2 is easier as the old pipe needs to be removed from under the house. sounds like it involves a few fixtures and tees/ wyes.
$1200-$1500 for 2 guys and 4 hours of work. the material is inexpensive. the labor is the factor.
there will be companies that are a lot higher and companies that are a lot less.

get a few referrals from friends and neighbors. don't just call random companies that advertise. make sure the price includes the removal of the old pipe and trash.

are you sure the pipe is not cleanable and leaking? has it been properly snaked or jetted?

do you feel comfortable with the original diagnosis?

rick.

If you can do that in an 18" crawl with a helper in four hours, including hauling the old pipe out, more power to you, it might be worth paying to watch, because I really doubt you could do it.

[JCsPlumbing]

We shouldn't do forum estimates. I can "guess" on a faucet but that's about it. Anything else has so many variables it's crazy to even try.

On another note, the forum members both new and old may not have agreed with me, but have always been fair and accepting of me for the most part.

If you're new or old and having problems with member behavior, look first at yourself.

Finally, it's like television or radio, noone is required to be here. If anyone doesn't like the way things are, go to the other billion pages out there.

And do it fast enough that the door doesn't hit you in the ***.

J.C.

[westcoastplumber]

I guess this song was for me....

http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/38718/detail/ the azzhole video.........FYI :) :)

:p;):D

[toolaholic]

My 2 cents. In the , "what should it cost Me" , game show. The little local plumber is getting worked over ,with our help. Screw this Guy and his kind

[PLUMBER RICK]

I want to be clear, Rick has his forte's.
We all do.
Not looking to beat him up here, but thats a pet peeve of mine...offering free advice or prices online might seem like a "nice" thing to do, but it's a recipe for disaster.

Ask Rick what stem belongs in a 30 yr old discontinued/obsolete faucet and he could tell you where to buy it, for how much the part will cost from memory alone...he has his strengths and I'm not trying to simply lash out at him blindly.

I just don't understand the thinking behind quoting even a ballpark price to a homeowner for a job like this online, it's impossible to know the variables.

If you can do that in an 18" crawl with a helper in four hours, including hauling the old pipe out, more power to you, it might be worth paying to watch, because I really doubt you could do it.

guys what you all forget is the limited information that has been supplied.

80' of 2'' abs is cheep. so the majority of this job is labor.

i don't know about you, but $1200 for a hard days work is fine with me.

5 days a week = $6000. x 50 weeks = $300,000.

not a job i would want to do everyday, but in 33 years, i've spent many years under houses and buildings. sure i prefer not crawling anymore, but i still do it.
can i do it:confused:

well if the roundup was any indication of my ability, i would be the first one done;)

the problem i see with most plumbers here is that they want good money for easy work.

today i spent 3 hours at the bank in 2 trips trying to cover my assets from 33 years of hard work.

all i know is i didn't get there with sitting around waiting for the phone to ring.

if you guys really don't think $1200. for a hard days work is not worth it. then you have nothing to worry about with the current banking situation.

is this a job i want to do if offered? no, because i have too many other jobs needing to get done that are 5 miles max from me. am i qualified to give a real price for this job? yes, more than qualified.

if $1200 doesn't sound good for a days work to the rest of the forum, then i guess i'm not as well off as i thought i am.

all i know is i'm not sitting home for the phone to ring.
my house and my shop is better than 90% paid for. and everything else is 100% paid for. sitting home didn't pay the bills and it never will.

enough said.

rick.

[DuckButter]

Rick, then it's final...do the job for $1200.
I suggest you work out the date with the O/P...prove your manhood, make us all proud like you did at the roundup.

[Killertoiletspider]

A plumber costs the company almost ninety dollars an hour when all the union benefits are paid here, twelve hundred dollars doesn't leave a whole lot for the overhead cost of the material, the truck to get it there, and I guess the apprentice is donating his time.

[westcoastplumber]

I agree, it's not like we are taking that 1200 home, free and clear, a plumber on a job, for 8 hrs, I figure about, about $160.00 profit when all is said and done. Not breaking the material and job down to an exact number, but off the top of my head, very close. I forgot, no helper, permits or anything either. YUMMY, I can't wait to do this job. :)

[PLUMBER RICK]

Rick, then it's final...do the job for $1200.
I suggest you work out the date with the O/P...prove your manhood, make us all proud like you did at the roundup.


remember the $1200 is the labor. the $300 is the material, misc, travel, disposal.

no need to prove anything. a good plumber will get it done and make a cool $1200 in a day while the others will wait for the phone to ring.

seeing that his plumber came in at $1650 for the job and he has first hand knowledge of it. my guesstimate was pretty close sight unseen. $1500 +10% is $1650.

not bad for not seeing it.

remember he was looking for a ballpark figure, not a contract sight unseen.

rick.

[Killertoiletspider]

remember he was looking for a ballpark figure, not a contract sight unseen.

rick.

You want a ballpark number?

New Comiskey Park cost 45 million, this job should be less than that.

[Masterplumb]

remember the $1200 is the labor. the $300 is the material, misc, travel, disposal.

no need to prove anything. a good plumber will get it done and make a cool $1200 in a day while the others will wait for the phone to ring.

seeing that his plumber came in at $1650 for the job and he has first hand knowledge of it. my guesstimate was pretty close sight unseen. $1500 +10% is $1650.

not bad for not seeing it.

remember he was looking for a ballpark figure, not a contract sight unseen.

rick.

What makes you think others are waiting for the phone to ring? While you're in the crawl space making your cool $1200 I will be out on calls making real money. Dont forget the time to go pull the permit, pay for the permit and the time for the inspection. Sorry, but I think you got this one wrong.

By thinking your price was right because one "plumber" was within your guess is like charging the going rate.

[DuckButter]

Of course, you figure the $1200 or so per month for you n Joey's health insurance, the 10% for advertizing, liability, the 1/3rd for taxes and you obviously know to figure for down time as well.


I'll say this again, do the job for the $1200 you quoted, put your money where your mouth is...after all...you were king at the roundup...you can do it in at 4 hours with one hand behind your back...heck maybe even two.
Glendale can't be that far....

[DuckButter]

What makes you think others are waiting for the phone to ring? While you're in the crawl space making your cool $1200 I will be out on calls making real money. Dont forget the time to go pull the permit, pay for the permit and the time for the inspection. Sorry, but I think you got this one wrong.

By thinking your price was right because one "plumber" was within your guess is like charging the going rate.

I find myself waiting for the phone to ring.
The reason?
When I get "Another plumber said he'll do my bath remodel for $2000", I insist they go with the other plumber.
While that maroon is tied up for the week, I get the water heaters and leaks he doesn't have the time for at the RIGHT price.
Read NHMAsters article...I wasn't kidding when I agreed with it...it was dead on and I don't mind waiting for a nibble on the line while guys run around like red headed step children trying to make ends meet.

[Masterplumb]

I find myself waiting for the phone to ring.
The reason?
When I get "Another plumber said he'll do my bath remodel for $2000", I insist they go with the other plumber.
While that maroon is tied up for the week, I get the water heaters and leaks he doesn't have the time for at the RIGHT price.
Read NHMAsters article...I wasn't kidding when I agreed with it...it was dead on and I don't mind waiting for a nibble on the line while guys run around like red headed step children trying to make ends meet.

Absolutely, I have read many articles by the author. Plumbing takes a huge toll on the body, look how many of us get bad back/knees, does anyone figure that into their price?

[DuckButter]

Absolutely, I have read many articles by the author. Plumbing takes a huge toll on the body, look how many of us get bad back/knees, does anyone figure that into their price?

With a bad knee, calcium deposits between C4 & C5, and a compressed disk at L7 I can attest to that.

[ToUtahNow]

The easiest way to not provide an online guesstimate is to not reply to the OP. As Rick has suggested a one-man shop who is slow may look at $1,200 for a days labor as $1,200 in his pocket.

Mark

[MrsSeatDown]

The easiest way to not provide an online guesstimate is to not reply to the OP.

Mark

I hear an echo. You don't cause I only said it to Rick:rolleyes:

[JERRYMAC]

Absolutely, I have read many articles by the author. Plumbing takes a huge toll on the body, look how many of us get bad back/knees, does anyone figure that into their price?
YES I AGREE WITH MASTERPLUMB;
THAT IS WHY I AM SETTING HOME ON S.S.D.I.
TRYING TO SURVIVE AFTER TOO MANY YEARS OF THE 1200 TO 1500 DOLLAR JOBS,
NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE I SAVIED MONEY OVER THE YEARS IS OFFERING TO SUPPORT ME SO I
HAVE A VERY GOOD REASON TO AGREE WITH THE DUCK, AND OTHERS WHO WANT TO GET THEIR PRICE AND MAKE A LIVING NOT JUST GET BY :nanner:

[PLUMBER RICK]

Of course, you figure the $1200 or so per month for you n Joey's health insurance, the 10% for advertizing, liability, the 1/3rd for taxes and you obviously know to figure for down time as well.

lets do the math again. $1200 a day in labor= $6000 a week
$6000 a week x 50 weeks =$300,000. a year for labor.

please tell me your tax return shows $300,000 or more before deductions. i don't think too many on this forum can claim that.

so if $1200 a day is not appealing to a plumber, then i guess neither is $300,000 a year.

not picking on you, but i don't have to wait for the phone or drive around pricing jobs. 33 years has built up a following with probably 5 new customers a week and a $0.00 advertising budget from day 1.

nothing to prove other than state facts.

the o.p. asked for an estimated cost. i gave him a guesstimate. he already had a price and wanted to see if it was in the ballpark. my sight unseen price is right in his range. the person who actually has quoted him a contract price is his plumber/ drain guy for years.

so all in all the o.p. got what he was looking for and the rest is history.



I'll say this again, do the job for the $1200 you quoted, put your money where your mouth is...after all...you were king at the roundup...you can do it in at 4 hours with one hand behind your back...heck maybe even two.
it's not drain cleaning and i'm not dunbar. but i do know how to work and i do it very well by myself. 4 hours was with help. i have no help so it's 8 hours.
Glendale can't be that far....

no it's not, but it's 20 miles each way. i only drive 5 miles each way per job. anything farther i'm not interested in or charge for travel.

by the way, health insurance for me is under $300 a month. joey is insured at her work;) everyone pays taxes and i pay double for social security being the owner and the employee.
being in business is not cheap. but $300,000 a year is not peanuts:D

rick.

[gear junkie]

What the heck?! A guy goes to sleep early one night and I miss the royal rumble.

[toolaholic]

Royal stumble

[Ace Sewer]

Ready's first post was in fine English. The Spanglish started later.... maybe two posters using same sign-on, but I think just one person winding y'all up on purpose, and didn't everyone just lap it up?

Why does that line need to be replaced? I bet it just needs a good jetting to get all the cast iron flakes out of it.

[MrsSeatDown]

Ready's first post was in fine English. The Spanglish started later.... maybe two posters using same sign-on, but I think just one person winding y'all up on purpose, and didn't everyone just lap it up?

.

Not only do I completely agree with this, but I also think it was someone who knew how easy it would be to throw in a match and just stand back to watch the fire.

[PLUMBER RICK]

are you sure the pipe is not cleanable and leaking? has it been properly snaked or jetted?

do you feel comfortable with the original diagnosis?

rick.


Why does that line need to be replaced? I bet it just needs a good jetting to get all the cast iron flakes out of it.

that was my first question too.

apparently it also has rust stains on the bottom and only a 1'' bulb cutter is able to pass.

something tells me he hasn't met the k-60 or the jetter yet;)

rick.

[MrsSeatDown]

something tells me he hasn't met the k-60 or the jetter yet;)

rick.

Something tells me you just never give up:eek::hug:

[DuckButter]

The easiest way to not provide an online guesstimate is to not reply to the OP. As Rick has suggested a one-man shop who is slow may look at $1,200 for a days labor as $1,200 in his pocket.

Mark

70-80 lineal feet of 2" CI demo'd & removed under an 18" to 24" crawlspace, then replaced with 70-80 feet of ABS with hangers every 4' feet, all tested & inspected. (if the inspector has mercy he lets you do a running test)
A one man show won't be dragging snap cutters, tools, droplight/cord, fittings, pipe, solvent, hangers and CI demo back and forth through a 24" crawlspace over 70 feet long in a day, all hung with correct pitch.

Rick turned this into a debate on whether $1200 is a reasonable days pay, adding that the original $1200-$1500 wasn't including $300 more for stock.
I'd be perfectly happy to make that in a day if it were every day, but this isn't what I'd call an average one man day.

He also asserts that we all stay busy making this money all week/50 a year...WRONG!

I just came off another busy spurt, thats how it goes...3 weeks straight of 7 days a week trying to get every customer fit into my schedule because I value my regulars too much to let them call another plumber, when I'm over-booked, then the calls stop...they always do.

I make great money per day while busy, if I assume thats what I make EVERY day, I'm done.

I can almost tell you how my next two weeks will go...there will be sporatic service/emergency calls..I'll be lucky if I make $1k a week- nevermind $1200 a day.
I'm perfectly happy with that, as right now my upper & lower back, knee and also hands are acting up from the excessive work of the last few weeks...I also think my old carpel tunnel is resurging, my hands get numb at night when doing a large volume of physical work during the day...usually takes a week or two for it to simmer down.

Rick, god love his spirited ways, sometimes has an almost naive way of looking at business..imo.
Also, as memory serves, he doesn't advertize...I have a sneaking suspicion he may have to sometime soon...if he ever has to sit down and look at his ad budget, then compare his earnings...he'll be in for a shock.

When you really sit down and add it all up, that $1200 day starts to slowly shrivel when you figure you don't work full days every day, every week, when you add advertizing, truck maintanence, tools, insurance, liability, TAXES, the list seems endless.

Seems like right when I think I'm ahead of the game, the right angle dies, the truck dies, the job I had scheduled falls through because the homeowner lost his job...another erndless list.

At one point, having mentioned a rate of $42 for a flapper replacement, I'd lose my shirt at that rate...YES, it's about the simplest task there is..but gas is $4 a gallon...travel time & restocking MUST be considered.
At that rate you make maybe $15 for your hours time after tax, I'm baffled.

My point is the same, quoting prices or offering free advice on DIY plumbing online is wrong...this thread is relative to the pricing topic and it is wrong...we have NO possible way of knowing what amount of work is entailed on that job.
Quote a $600 job to a homeowner at $300 and most will still complain.
They almost never realize the extent of the work or cost of stock...giving them a "ballpark" online only fuels more trouble for the plumber who does the job...and the unkowing homeowner who might continue shopping until they find someone willing to cut corners to accomodate their expectations.

[ToUtahNow]

70-80 lineal feet of 2" CI demo'd & removed under an 18" to 24" crawlspace, then replaced with 70-80 feet of ABS with hangers every 4' feet, all tested & inspected. (if the inspector has mercy he lets you do a running test)
A one man show won't be dragging snap cutters, tools, droplight/cord, fittings, pipe, solvent, hangers and CI demo back and forth through a 24" crawlspace over 70 feet long in a day, all hung with correct pitch.

Rick turned this into a debate on whether $1200 is a reasonable days pay, adding that the original $1200-$1500 wasn't including $300 more for stock.
I'd be perfectly happy to make that in a day if it were every day, but this isn't what I'd call an average one man day.

He also asserts that we all stay busy making this money all week/50 a year...WRONG!

I just came off another busy spurt, thats how it goes...3 weeks straight of 7 days a week trying to get every customer fit into my schedule because I value my regulars too much to let them call another plumber, when I'm over-booked, then the calls stop...they always do.

I make great money per day while busy, if I assume thats what I make EVERY day, I'm done.

I can almost tell you how my next two weeks will go...there will be sporatic service/emergency calls..I'll be lucky if I make $1k a week- nevermind $1200 a day.
I'm perfectly happy with that, as right now my upper & lower back, knee and also hands are acting up from the excessive work of the last few weeks...I also think my old carpel tunnel is resurging, my hands get numb at night when doing a large volume of physical work during the day...usually takes a week or two for it to simmer down.

Rick, god love his spirited ways, sometimes has an almost naive way of looking at business..imo.
Also, as memory serves, he doesn't advertize...I have a sneaking suspicion he may have to sometime soon...if he ever has to sit down and look at his ad budget, then compare his earnings...he'll be in for a shock.

When you really sit down and add it all up, that $1200 day starts to slowly shrivel when you figure you don't work full days every day, every week, when you add advertizing, truck maintanence, tools, insurance, liability, TAXES, the list seems endless.

Seems like right when I think I'm ahead of the game, the right angle dies, the truck dies, the job I had scheduled falls through because the homeowner lost his job...another erndless list.

At one point, having mentioned a rate of $42 for a flapper replacement, I'd lose my shirt at that rate...YES, it's about the simplest task there is..but gas is $4 a gallon...travel time & restocking MUST be considered.
At that rate you make maybe $15 for your hours time after tax, I'm baffled.

My point is the same, quoting prices or offering free advice on DIY plumbing online is wrong...this thread is relative to the pricing topic and it is wrong...we have NO possible way of knowing what amount of work is entailed on that job.
Quote a $600 job to a homeowner at $300 and most will still complain.
They almost never realize the extent of the work or cost of stock...giving them a "ballpark" online only fuels more trouble for the plumber who does the job...and the unkowing homeowner who might continue shopping until they find someone willing to cut corners to accomodate their expectations.

I'm not sure about Rick's work but I've had very few times in my life when I was not busy. It always seemed my shop was diverse enough we could find something to do. There were a few times where I had to adjusted my crews but never any time where I had nothing to do. Assuming the job is an 8-hour job $1,200 is $150 per hour. What are your current rates? A good rule of thumb is it takes 5-years to build a business to a point where you have a customer base which is capable of making you a nice profit. I understand it is hard for you guys who are new to business to appreciate the fact it takes a while for it to happen. However, I don't question you will be there some time soon.

Mark

[DuckButter]

I'm not sure about Rick's work but I've had very few times in my life when I was not busy. It always seemed my shop was diverse enough we could find something to do. There were a few times where I had to adjusted my crews but never any time where I had nothing to do. Assuming the job is an 8-hour job $1,200 is $150 per hour. What are your current rates? A good rule of thumb is it takes 5-years to build a business to a point where you have a customer base which is capable of making you a nice profit. I understand it is hard for you guys who are new to business to appreciate the fact it takes a while for it to happen. However, I don't question you will be there some time soon.

Mark

Mark, my last post was a mile long, I can see details being missed there.
I stated $1200 was a good days pay, especially if you're able to keep that Amount of business flowing daily, year round.
There lies the miscommunication...

What I also stated was the improbability of one man removing & reinstalling over 70 lineal feet of CI inside a 18-24" crawlspace in a day with proper pitch, supports every 4 feet and inspection.

You have to drag your tools, stock and pipe all the way through...and it's obviously several trips worth just for that...then the time to remove the CI, then add the new drain as you go.
You can't tell me you'd be able to drag a full arsenal of tools, pipe, snap cutter (or grinder), cord, droplight, fittings as well as do the actual job alone in a single 8 hour day.

Rick implies his accolades from his victorious roundup accomplishments means he could do it, I suggest he do then, in fact I urge him to do it.

Offering a homeowner a price online is foolish, I understand how some here like to be helpful...but if the actual job turned out to be 2 or 3 times the amount of work, the homeowner might think he were being fleeced.
The plumber might then be engaged in negotiating a price that's already low...we have no way of knowing all the details online.

Good intentions are dandy, but then there's the old saying about a road thats paved with 'em.
I'm not being greedy, I'm not inadequate for not being able to keep myself booked 8 hours a day 365 @ the proposed $1200 a day...I definitely don't feel inadequate for trying to stay afloat, feed my family and be able to keep us healthy.

I'll remind the forum of NHMasters recital of Census stats that the average plumber just breaks $40K annually, I've been able to exceed that, despite my being under 5 years self employed.

The assumption that charging $1200 for a day means you automatically make that every day is silly.
IF you are able to take in that much daily, there is NO question your ad budget will reflect that...simply ask Bestline, or any other larger shop that has full page ads in the yellow pages...you state your shop pulled in that much daily...what was your ad budget?

[Service Guy]

I agree that pricing unseen jobs online (or on the phone) is a no-no, big mistake. I wasn't going to respond at all to this thread and didn't at first.
I hope we all learned that lesson.

Anyone remember this thread? Its a doozy, and beachlover is a #%$#!@@!.
http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=146277&postcount=1

[DuckButter]

I agree that pricing online is a no-no, big mistake. I wasn't going to respond at all to this thread and didn't at first.
I hope we all learned that lesson.

Anyone remember this thread? Its a doozy, and beachlover is a #%$#!@@!.
http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=146277&postcount=1

I say it's simple common sense & deduction.
No homeowner is going online to ask if the price is high enough to ensure they get the best quality...trust me, nobody's searching to see if they can get a higher price.
They're usually asking to to conveniently see if they can get lower, in the end it comes out of our hides...homey don't play that game.

I won't even do that to my direct competition when I'm slow...I get someone who's bargain hunting I just tell them to stay with the price they already have, I'm more expensive.

[ToUtahNow]

Mark, my last post was a mile long, I can see details being missed there.
I stated $1200 was a good days pay, especially if you're able to keep that Amount of business flowing daily, year round.
There lies the miscommunication...

What I also stated was the improbability of one man removing & reinstalling over 70 lineal feet of CI inside a 18-24" crawlspace in a day with proper pitch, supports every 4 feet and inspection.

You have to drag your tools, stock and pipe all the way through...and it's obviously several trips worth just for that...then the time to remove the CI, then add the new drain as you go.
You can't tell me you'd be able to drag a full arsenal of tools, pipe, snap cutter (or grinder), cord, droplight, fittings as well as do the actual job alone in a single 8 hour day.

Rick implies his accolades from his victorious roundup accomplishments means he could do it, I suggest he do then, in fact I urge him to do it.

Offering a homeowner a price online is foolish, I understand how some here like to be helpful...but if the actual job turned out to be 2 or 3 times the amount of work, the homeowner might think he were being fleeced.
The plumber might then be engaged in negotiating a price that's already low...we have no way of knowing all the details online.

Good intentions are dandy, but then there's the old saying about a road thats paved with 'em.
I'm not being greedy, I'm not inadequate for not being able to keep myself booked 8 hours a day 365 @ the proposed $1200 a day...I definitely don't feel inadequate for trying to stay afloat, feed my family and be able to keep us healthy.

I'll remind the forum of NHMasters recital of Census stats that the average plumber just breaks $40K annually, I've been able to exceed that, despite my being under 5 years self employed.

The assumption that charging $1200 for a day means you automatically make that every day is silly.
IF you are able to take in that much daily, there is NO question your ad budget will reflect that...simply ask Bestline, or any other larger shop that has full page ads in the yellow pages...you state your shop pulled in that much daily...what was your ad budget?

Of course none of us know how long it would really take but I see no reason why it could not be done in an 8-hour day. Still my point was Rick was basing his estimate as the work being done in 8-hours. As such $1,200 would equate to $150 per hour. While I understand you may not be able to make $1,200 as an average what is your base rate at this time? As for sight unseen guesstimates I agree with you but remember neither party was obligated to the price Rick gave hence it truly was a guesstimate and not an estimate. I would have preferred if the OP came on and said my plumber quoted $**** does that sound reasonable.

Mark

[Killertoiletspider]

Of course none of us know how long it would really take but I see no reason why it could not be done in an 8-hour day. Still my point was Rick was basing his estimate as the work being done in 8-hours. As such $1,200 would equate to $150 per hour. While I understand you may not be able to make $1,200 as an average what is your base rate at this time? As for sight unseen guesstimates I agree with you but remember neither party was obligated to the price Rick gave hence it truly was a guesstimate and not an estimate. I would have preferred if the OP came on and said my plumber quoted $**** does that sound reasonable.

Mark

Actually, no he didn't.

From his post.

this is a job that 1 person can do, but 2 is easier as the old pipe needs to be removed from under the house. sounds like it involves a few fixtures and tees/ wyes.
$1200-$1500 for 2 guys and 4 hours of work. the material is inexpensive. the labor is the factor.
there will be companies that are a lot higher and companies that are a lot less.

[DuckButter]

Mark, no way ONE guy could do that job in one 8 hour day, not alone.
The simple fact that you'd have to call in for an inspection negates that possibility alone.

The $1650 price sounds like it turned out to either have the drain close to the outside of the crawlspace where it was easy to get to, or there's only one fixture connected, but I stand by the fact that giving a ballpark online only serves negative purposes one way or another.

To be clear, no adversity here...THIS is one of those discussions I feel are important.

It might have been better to enlighten the homeowner on what work is entailed, or what material / technique would be appropriate, but grabbing at numbers for the sake of being nice can't help anyone.

[DUNBAR]

I just fell down a set of steps.


Backwards



with sharp objects in my hands.

[DuckButter]

I just fell down a set of steps.


Backwards



with sharp objects in my hands.

I've said this before, I'll say it again...you ain't right, you just ain't right.:rolling-eyes::lol:

[westcoastplumber]

The $1650 price sounds like it turned out to either have the drain close to the outside of the crawlspace where it was easy to get to, or there's only one fixture connected


The crawlspace entrance was in the closet, inside the master bedroom,t he worse place it could possibly be at.

[DuckButter]

The crawlspace entrance was in the closet, inside the master bedroom,t he worse place it could possibly be at.
In that case, the right price would be $1250...right?

[JCsPlumbing]

It just won't die and I don't know why.....:confused:

J.C.

[westcoastplumber]

It just won't die and I don't know why.....:confused:

J.C.



Because we are all sitting around waiting for the phone to ring with nothing better to do :confused: :) :) :)

[JCsPlumbing]

No, I'm wondering how anyone gets there cock in a 3/4" PEX pipe? Guess you gotta' heat it up first.

Last one. I promise Robert.

J.C.

[DuckButter]

Because we are all sitting around waiting for the phone to ring with nothing better to do :confused: :) :) :)
:rotflmao1::rotflmao::rotflmao1::rotflmao:

[DuckButter]

No, I'm wondering how anyone gets there cock in a 3/4" PEX pipe? Guess you gotta' heat it up first.

Last one. I promise Robert.

J.C.
Skeeter peter...new solvent/sealant made by Oatey, sold at HD.

[ToUtahNow]

Mark, no way ONE guy could do that job in one 8 hour day, not alone.
The simple fact that you'd have to call in for an inspection negates that possibility alone.

The $1650 price sounds like it turned out to either have the drain close to the outside of the crawlspace where it was easy to get to, or there's only one fixture connected, but I stand by the fact that giving a ballpark online only serves negative purposes one way or another.

To be clear, no adversity here...THIS is one of those discussions I feel are important.

It might have been better to enlighten the homeowner on what work is entailed, or what material / technique would be appropriate, but grabbing at numbers for the sake of being nice can't help anyone.

Having worked in Glendale there is almost a zero chance the inspector would do anything beyond collecting a fee ($30 plus $10 per fixture). Assuming he did do an inspection it would not be under a 10' head and you would not be required to be there. In both Burbank and Glendale the only way to get an inspector under a house is to open the floor in each room.

I had a 24-unit project in Glendale where the plumber repiped all of the under floor galvanized pipe with copper without the use of dielectric fittings, straps or isolating valves. The new pipe was leaking all over the place and they had mold remediation companies doing mold remediation in two units. My recommendation was to tear out all of the "new" work and start over. The only part of the system the inspector ever saw was from the pictures I took of the job. It's unfortunate but their take is the plumber is charged with doing it right as he is the one with the license. They will do a walk through if you demand it but they will not crawl the building on a small repair.

Mark

[DuckButter]

Having worked in Glendale there is almost a zero chance the inspector would do anything beyond collecting a fee ($30 plus $10 per fixture). Assuming he did do an inspection it would not be under a 10' head and you would not be required to be there. In both Burbank and Glendale the only way to get an inspector under a house is to open the floor in each room.

I had a 24-unit project in Glendale where the plumber repiped all of the under floor galvanized pipe with copper without the use of dielectric fittings, straps or isolating valves. The new pipe was leaking all over the place and they had mold remediation companies doing mold remediation in two units. My recommendation was to tear out all of the "new" work and start over. The only part of the system the inspector ever saw was from the pictures I took of the job. It's unfortunate but their take is the plumber is charged with doing it right as he is the one with the license. They will do a walk through if you demand it but they will not crawl the building on a small repair.

Mark
It's all good, but one man still won't be dragging all the necessary tools & stock through 70+ feet of 18-24" crawlspaces and still be able to demo/install that much pipe in 8 hours correctly.
I figure it at 2 days alone...maybe one day with two guys...unless you don't mind a plenum here n there.

[ToUtahNow]

It's all good, but one man still won't be dragging all the necessary tools & stock through 70+ feet of 18-24" crawlspaces and still be able to demo/install that much pipe in 8 hours correctly.
I figure it at 2 days alone...maybe one day with two guys...unless you don't mind a plenum here n there.

Hopefully the OP will post an update when it's over so we know how it went. To be clear on the inspectors I was referring to combined inspectors who would go out on repairs not Plumbing Inspectors. I was the Developer on some condos built in Glendale as well and there you actually have Specialty Inspectors who do look at the work.

Mark

[Service Guy]

Hopefully the OP will post an update when it's over so we know how it went.
Mark

That'd be a first. Most of them just want free advice, then they disappear. Leeches.

[westcoastplumber]

That'd be a first. Most of them just want free advice, then they disappear. Leeches.


you sound like me:eek:

[DuckButter]

Hopefully the OP will post an update when it's over so we know how it went. To be clear on the inspectors I was referring to combined inspectors who would go out on repairs not Plumbing Inspectors. I was the Developer on some condos built in Glendale as well and there you actually have Specialty Inspectors who do look at the work.

Mark
I'd like to hear as well, but we both know this is likely the last we'll hear of the homeowner.

[PLUMBER RICK]

We had our drain pipe snaked (again) and were told the 45 year-old 2" cast iron part of the run really needs to be replaced, as it is severely blocked and starting to leak in places. I'm wondering what a reasonable price might be to have this done. We're in north LA county, where plumbers seem to keep busy--at least in our area. Here is the job:

1) Remove 70-80' of 2" cast iron and replace with ABS.
2) All of it is in the U-shaped crawlspace under the house, which is tight but navigable.
3) Access is through an opening in the master bedroom closet (have to keep things clean).
4) Pipe can be removed, supplied through one of the vents in the side of the house.
5) The run starts beneath a deepsink in the garage, makes a turn past the kitchen at the back of the house, turns again to pick up a cleanout line, tub and sink in the master bedroom, then merges into 3" cast iron; the job ends at the merge.

I'm hoping to find out what a reasonable price range might be before I make my calls. Is this an acceptable question for this forum?

this is a job that 1 person can do, but 2 is easier as the old pipe needs to be removed from under the house. sounds like it involves a few fixtures and tees/ wyes.
$1200-$1500 for 2 guys and 4 hours of work. the material is inexpensive. the labor is the factor.
there will be companies that are a lot higher and companies that are a lot less.

get a few referrals from friends and neighbors. don't just call random companies that advertise. make sure the price includes the removal of the old pipe and trash.

are you sure the pipe is not cleanable and leaking? has it been properly snaked or jetted?

do you feel comfortable with the original diagnosis?



rick.


read his question and my answer.

you guys knock leonard/ bestline because his prices are too high.

then you knock me because my prices are too low.

guess what. he asked for a "reasonable price range"

guess what, sight unseen, with little info other than knowing where glendale is located. my guesstimate ballpark price was $100. less that the actual plumber who has worked on the house and gave him an actual quote.

so i guess we both don't know how to bid:rolleyes: :withstupid:
but we both know how to make $1200 in a day of hard work;)

so not only is it bad to help out a poster with a ballpark estimate, it's bad to help out anyone with any help.

what happened to your plumbers only forum:confused:
you guys got bored:nyaa-nyaa4:.

by the way, i could easily do this job in a day as long as there is space to crawl. remember i didn't start plumbing yesterday.

rick.

[Killertoiletspider]

You originally said four hours, not a day.

[rick1643]

I agree with Rick, if the job is as it is described, it can be done in 8 hours or less. His 4 hour estimate was with a helper.

[PLUMBER RICK]

this is a job that 1 person can do, but 2 is easier as the old pipe needs to be removed from under the house. sounds like it involves a few fixtures and tees/ wyes.
$1200-$1500 for 2 guys and 4 hours of work. the material is inexpensive. the labor is the factor.
there will be companies that are a lot higher and companies that are a lot less.

get a few referrals from friends and neighbors. don't just call random companies that advertise. make sure the price includes the removal of the old pipe and trash.

are you sure the pipe is not cleanable and leaking? has it been properly snaked or jetted?

do you feel comfortable with the original diagnosis?



rick.

You originally said four hours, not a day.

i said 2 guys are easier. 2 guys at 4 hours each or 1 guy at a full 8 hour day.

so it's not the price that concerns you, it's the time:rolleyes:

experience is what makes jobs go faster and easier.
33 years is experience.
i do 99% of all work myself. sometimes the homeowner will open a wall or dig a ditch to save money. i don't do a job i can't handle myself.
100 gallon heaters i can handle myself:D

rick.

[DuckButter]

read his question and my answer.

you guys knock leonard/ bestline because his prices are too high.

then you knock me because my prices are too low.

guess what. he asked for a "reasonable price range"

guess what, sight unseen, with little info other than knowing where glendale is located. my guesstimate ballpark price was $100. less that the actual plumber who has worked on the house and gave him an actual quote.

so i guess we both don't know how to bid:rolleyes: :withstupid:
but we both know how to make $1200 in a day of hard work;)

so not only is it bad to help out a poster with a ballpark estimate, it's bad to help out anyone with any help.

what happened to your plumbers only forum:confused:
you guys got bored:nyaa-nyaa4:.

by the way, i could easily do this job in a day as long as there is space to crawl. remember i didn't start plumbing yesterday.

rick.
A large number of us belong to that forum, it's awsome...nice to be able to vent, share info & talk shop without having wannabe hacks or DIY probes interupting.
I doubt you'd like it there though.
As for your estimate..I STRONGLY urge you to take the job...prove me wrong, get the job done in 8 hours alone and you win the big lollipop, plus a star for your forehead...take the job...please take it.

[PLUMBER RICK]

A large number of us belong to that forum, it's awsome...nice to be able to vent, share info & talk shop without having wannabe hacks or DIY probes interupting.
I doubt you'd like it there though.
As for your estimate..I STRONGLY urge you to take the job...prove me wrong, get the job done in 8 hours alone and you win the big lollipop, plus a star for your forehead...take the job...please take it.

i suggest you go back to your plumbers only forum so you guys can all help each other out while i help out the people who are asking for help.

i'll stick with the 4 trophies for my forehead.

i strongly suggest you start doing jobs and stop waiting for the phone to ring. isn't it late there? i guess it must have been another easy day as you're up late again.

rick.

[DuckButter]

Here's his E-mail from his public profile Rick jrowler8@gmail.com ...Send him a message that you'll do it for less than the estimate he got, $1200 plus the $300 you said for stock...get the job, do it in 8 hours and prove me wrong, end of story.

[DuckButter]

i suggest you go back to your plumbers only forum so you guys can all help each other out while i help out the people who are asking for help.

i'll stick with the 4 trophies for my forehead.

i strongly suggest you start doing jobs and stop waiting for the phone to ring. isn't it late there? i guess it must have been another easy day as you're up late again.

rick.
Read my posts, after 3 weeks of straight out 7 days...some in excess of 14 hours, I'm taking some down time to let the aches wear off.
I can do that when I'm not working for $15 an hour, and offering freebie DIY advice to landlords and handymen looking to skip the plumber.

[ToUtahNow]

I'm wondering if a lot of this also has to do with the work you are use to. When I was younger and doing a lot of move-ons I could tear out and repalce an entire 2-bath house including vents within 2-days by myself. If I had a helper we would install the water and gas as well as the DWV in less than 3-full days.

Mark

[PLUMBER RICK]

Here's his E-mail from his public profile Rick jrowler8@gmail.com ...Send him a message that you'll do it for less than the estimate he got, $1200 plus the $300 you said for stock...get the job, do it in 8 hours and prove me wrong, end of story.

first off there is nothing to prove. i'm not going to bother emailing. i'm not interested in working for complete strangers. i never work for strangers and i don't advertise. i don't make phone calls to solicit work. i return calls from customers.

so is it my estimate of the price or the time that pisses you off?

remember i can hand cut, ream, thread and connect a 90 on a 1'' iron pipe in 66 seconds. and that was my first try. wanna race:nyaa-nyaa4:
maybe you can't do it. but i've done plumbing for 33 years, remember? or do i need to prove that too?

remember who did all the talking before the roundup? i talked it and i backed it up:nyaa-nyaa4: in fact all the older guys taught the young guys about speed. practice makes perfect and builds up speed.

start practicing so next year you might have a chance to dethrone me:lol:

i like the challenge.

rick.

[ToUtahNow]

Okay boys we can agree to disagree without getting offended.

Mark

[MrsSeatDown]

Okay boys we can agree to disagree without getting offended.

Mark

I just got home from my meeting:( Mark, you were the grown up in charge. . .what happened?:eek:

[DuckButter]

I'm wondering if a lot of this also has to do with the work you are use to. When I was younger and doing a lot of move-ons I could tear out and repalce an entire 2-bath house including vents within 2-days by myself. If I had a helper we would install the water and gas as well as the DWV in less than 3-full days.

Mark
Just did a bath remodel rough in on the second floor...all water & drainage brought from the basement to the 2nd floor by myself in 3 days...the pics I posted of the CI stack with lead & oakum joint was from that job.
Crawling around on your back in a 24" crawlspace isn't the same, this is the type of work I do.
He won't get all his stock, tools & pipe in place hung-glued & tested (running at least), then remove all the ci in 8 hours, not alone.
You throw all the years experience you want at me...no amount of experience makes grunt work easier...you still have to crawl and wiggle your way across 70-80 feet on your belly or back.
The experience part can only ease the number of trips by not foprgetting stock or tools, saving time on return trips, but it doesn't teach you how to levitate across that space, you can't teleport around down there.

All he needs to do is send that Email, prove me wrong.

Also, the statement about earning $1200 every day, 5 days a week is silly...you know what down time is...anyone who is self employed does, or at least should.

[DuckButter]

I just got home from my meeting:( Mark, you were the grown up in charge. . .what happened?:eek:
This topic is VERY important to me...I have a point to make.
There's probably some plumber out there who cut himself short by offering a bid at $1650 and is know hearing another plumber said they can beat the price.

I wear those shoes frequently.

[DuckButter]

i like the challenge.

rick.
I challenge you to Email him, take the job.

[MrsSeatDown]

This topic is VERY important to me...I have a point to make.
There's probably some plumber out there who cut himself short by offering a bid at $1650 and is know hearing another plumber said they can beat the price.

I wear those shoes frequently.

Rick is not saying he can beat the price. He threw out a rough, blind guesstimate. I can attest, the only downtime Rick has is when he chooses not to work. He is constantly turning work away. That speaks to his point about not personally needing to advertise.

As far as having a point to make, that feeling I am sure travels amongst many posting on this thread.

[MrsSeatDown]

I challenge you to Email him, take the job.

This is ridiculous on many levels.

[DuckButter]

I'm wondering if a lot of this also has to do with the work you are use to. When I was younger and doing a lot of move-ons I could tear out and repalce an entire 2-bath house including vents within 2-days by myself. If I had a helper we would install the water and gas as well as the DWV in less than 3-full days.

Mark
When I was doing new construction, myself and another guy would rough a 2-1/2 bath home with gas in 3-1/2 days.
The fastest crew we had did it in 3.
New construction is different, everything is out in the open, no demo, same layouts over and over.

[DuckButter]

This is ridiculous on many levels.
It would be very profitable for him...especially for a one day job.

[rombo]

Just did a bath remodel rough in on the second floor...all water & drainage brought from the basement to the 2nd floor by myself in 3 days...the pics I posted of the CI stack with lead & oakum joint was from that job.
Crawling around on your back in a 24" crawlspace isn't the same, this is the type of work I do.
He won't get all his stock, tools & pipe in place hung-glued & tested (running at least), then remove all the ci in 8 hours, not alone.
You throw all the years experience you want at me...no amount of experience makes grunt work easier...you still have to crawl and wiggle your way across 70-80 feet on your belly or back.
The experience part can only ease the number of trips by not foprgetting stock or tools, saving time on return trips, but it doesn't teach you how to levitate across that space, you can't teleport around down there.

All he needs to do is send that Email, prove me wrong.

Also, the statement about earning $1200 every day, 5 days a week is silly...you know what down time is...anyone who is self employed does, or at least should.



That job should be 8 no problem. If it were in my area i would do the job and tape the whole thing to settle this ****

cover master bdr = 1 hr
2'' ci removal = 2 hr
install hangers = 1.5 hr
can't forget lunch = 1/2 hr
install all 1/4" sloped pipe 1.5 hr
make 2 offsets possibly = 1
Test and clean up = 1

[DuckButter]

Rick is not saying he can beat the price. He threw out a rough, blind guesstimate. I can attest, the only downtime Rick has is when he chooses not to work. He is constantly turning work away. That speaks to his point about not personally needing to advertise.

As far as having a point to make, that feeling I am sure travels amongst many posting on this thread.
The point is that he's indirectly volunteered a time/price estimate for another plumber out there.
He can prove me wrong and just do the job, it's a win win situation...he shows me I'm wrong for doubting it can be done in 8 hours, he makes a great days pay.

[MrsSeatDown]

It would be very profitable for him...especially for a one day job.

Is it profitable to turn away an established customer(s) where you are already gaining a profit to take on a total stranger that doesn't even know you exist and forgot they posted a question on a forum that they are probably never gonna even be able to remember their password to?

[DuckButter]

That job should be 8 no problem. If it were in my area i would do the job and tape the whole thing to settle this ****

cover master bdr = 1 hr
2'' ci removal = 2 hr
install hangers = 1.5 hr
can't forget lunch = 1/2 hr
install all 1/4" sloped pipe 1.5 hr
make 2 offsets possibly = 1
Test and clean up = 1
He has a chance to prove it...if he takes the job.

[rombo]

you two should do it together in 4 hours each make your 600 bucks and then go for a beer

[DuckButter]

Is it profitable to turn away an established customer(s) where you are already gaining a profit to take on a total stranger that doesn't even know you exist and forgot they posted a question on a forum that they are probably never gonna even be able to remember their password to?
All he has to do is take the job, he says it's a days work, he should prove it.
I've been wrong before, here's his chance to one-up his roundup prowess yet again and really prove how incredible he is.

[MrsSeatDown]

The point is that he's indirectly volunteered a time/price estimate for another plumber out there.
He can prove me wrong and just do the job, it's a win win situation...he shows me I'm wrong for doubting it can be done in 8 hours, he makes a great days pay.

What makes you think the job hasn't already been done? Every plumber sets his own price. Rick is not that powerful.

[DuckButter]

What makes you think the job hasn't already been done? Every plumber sets his own price. Rick is not that powerful.
Oh, but he is...he won some contests at the roundup.

I doubt the job has been doine, the guy posted yesterday...Rick really should Email him & take the job...make me eat some crow.

I'll then scurry back to my other plumbers only forum to cry about it.

[ToUtahNow]

I just got home from my meeting:( Mark, you were the grown up in charge. . .what happened?:eek:

I'm sorry, I am sitting here preparing a PowerPoint presentation for a Mediation and I guess I was not watching the kids close enough (or maybe it was too close). Tell Rick as long as he brings in a note from you it's all good.

Mark

[MrsSeatDown]

Oh, but he is...he won some contests at the roundup.

I doubt the job has been doine, the guy posted yesterday...Rick really should Email him & take the job...make me eat some crow.

I'll then scurry back to my other plumbers only forum to cry about it.

Yes, Rick won and so did 6 other gloating winners. They deserve to gloat for their wins.

It does not make good business sense to chase down a job and turn away established customers purely to prove a point to you. Perhaps if he had nothing else to do, no work was coming in, and the mailman stopped bring me checks everyday he would go out of his way to do this.

It is just not worth it.

[MrsSeatDown]

I'm sorry, I am sitting here preparing a PowerPoint presentation for a Mediation and I guess I was not watching the kids close enough (or maybe it was too close). Tell Rick as long as he brings in a note from you it's all good.

Mark

You have mediation here to do:smash:

[DUNBAR]

Anyone have a proven method to permanently remove back hair, without the use of fire and accelerants?


I'm open to suggestion...

[MrsSeatDown]

Anyone have a proven method to permanently remove back hair, without the use of fire and accelerants?


I'm open to suggestion...

Nair? laser? I hear you shouldn't mix chlorine and ammonia though:smack-head:

[DuckButter]

Yes, Rick won and so did 6 other gloating winners. They deserve to gloat for their wins.

It does not make good business sense to chase down a job and turn away established customers purely to prove a point to you. Perhaps if he had nothing else to do, no work was coming in, and the mailman stopped bring me checks everyday he would go out of his way to do this.

It is just not worth it.
Not just me Joey, the majority of other plumbers on this thread disagree with his estimate.
He should never have volunteered specifics on price or time, it's wrong.

When you aren't the one doing the work or haven't seen the job you have NO right to offer an estimate, but he does it all the time.
This isn't intended as an outright antagonistic act...there IS a point here.
He needs to do that job, put his money where his mouth is, or stop offering free estimates online for other plumbers to live up to.

[rick1643]

Anyone have a proven method to permanently remove back hair, without the use of fire and accelerants?


I'm open to suggestion...

Sure. Crawl under this house without your shirt, and while your down there do this job.:D

[Service Guy]

I have to disagree with my buddy duckbutter. Yes, we haven't seen the job, but based on the info. I could do (singlehandedly) that job in one day and so could Rick. My estimated price (which I deleted) was very close to rick's, I said 1350 to 1650 depending on the layout. Rick said 1200-1500. Not too far off.

So although I don't agree with quoting online estimates...the job described was not all that out of line with rick's estimate. Its the principle of quoting the job sight unseen that is a problem, not the estimate itself.

I disagree with Rick a lot too. But he is getting unecessarily targeted in this thread imo.

[PLUMBER RICK]

This topic is VERY important to me...I have a point to make.
There's probably some plumber out there who cut himself short by offering a bid at $1650 and is know hearing another plumber said they can beat the price.

I wear those shoes frequently.

Rick is not saying he can beat the price. He threw out a rough, blind guesstimate. I can attest, the only downtime Rick has is when he chooses not to work. He is constantly turning work away. That speaks to his point about not personally needing to advertise.

As far as having a point to make, that feeling I am sure travels amongst many posting on this thread.

how many times do you need to read the o.p question? he asked for a ballpark price. not a contract price sight unseen.

if you can't understand what i post, you should be able to understand joey's post. she is the one with the masters degree.
i'm just the one with the trophies:rolleyes:

so is it the price or the time that you can't believe?

seems like there's a handful of experienced plumbers here that can also do it. get some experience, some sleep and go see for yourself if it can be done.

why not just try the threader test. clamp a 2' section of 1'' sch.40 black pipe into a 460 tripod stand. get a 1a pipe cutter, a 2-s reamer, a 418 oiler, a 1'' 12-r threader and a 1'' 90.

stopwatch starts when you grab the cutter. cut the 1'' with the 1-a cutter. ream the clamped in piece with the 2-s reamer. thread and oil with the 12-r threader and 418 oiler. thread it till it's flush with the last die chaser. remove the threader and hand thread on the 90.

what's your time your first try?

p.s. i was finished faster than it took you to read this post:D

66 seconds.

so if your faster than that. you'll beat me:rolleyes: chances are you're much slower.

experience, strength and determination is the wining factor. plus a good nights sleep:boring:

oh, i forgot to say, i've never timed myself or actually practiced this before the roundup.


what's your time? i'll trust you not to lie;)

rick.

[DuckButter]

Anyone have a proven method to permanently remove back hair, without the use of fire and accelerants?


I'm open to suggestion...
Yes, take this job, race along like a maniac & do it in 4 hours alone on your back with no shirt.

[DuckButter]

how many times do you need to read the o.p question? he asked for a ballpark price. not a contract price sight unseen.

if you can't understand what i post, you should be able to understand joey's post. she is the one with the masters degree.
i'm just the one with the trophies:rolleyes:

so is it the price or the time that you can't believe?

seems like there's a handful of experienced plumbers here that can also do it. get some experience, some sleep and go see for yourself if it can be done.

why not just try the threader test. clamp a 2' section of 1'' sch.40 black pipe into a 460 tripod stand. get a 1a pipe cutter, a 2-s reamer, a 418 oiler, a 1'' 12-r threader and a 1'' 90.

stopwatch starts when you grab the cutter. cut the 1'' with the 1-a cutter. ream the clamped in piece with the 2-s reamer. thread and oil with the 12-r threader and 418 oiler. thread it till it's flush with the last die chaser. remove the threader and hand thread on the 90.

what's your time your first try?

p.s. i was finished faster than it took you to read this post:D

66 seconds.

so if your faster than that. you'll beat me:rolleyes: chances are you're much slower.

experience, strength and determination is the wining factor. plus a good nights sleep:boring:

oh, i forgot to say, i've never timed myself or actually practiced this before the roundup.


what's your time? i'll trust you not to lie;)

rick.
Have you E-mailed him yet?

[MrsSeatDown]

Not just me Joey, the majority of other plumbers on this thread disagree with his estimate.
He should never have volunteered specifics on price or time, it's wrong.

When you aren't the one doing the work or haven't seen the job you have NO right to offer an estimate, but he does it all the time.
This isn't intended as an outright antagonistic act...there IS a point here.
He needs to do that job, put his money where his mouth is, or stop offering free estimates online for other plumbers to live up to.

The OP asked a question and Rick answered in the way saw fit. You chose to answer in the way you saw fit. Why do other plumbers feel they have to live up to Rick's prices? That is on them. You aren't anywhere near our area and should not affect you in the least.

The majority of the people here also complain they have people calling them all day to price shop. Rick's customers don't ask price. They ask when he can come.

What he does can't be all bad if he has enough work to turn away, has down time only when he chooses, doesn't advertise, and doesn't have to deal with price shoppers.

You can tell him 10 more times to do the job. He is not going to do it.

[DuckButter]

I have to disagree with my buddy duckbutter. Yes, we haven't seen the job, but based on the info. I could do (singlehandedly) that job in one day and so could Rick. My estimated price (which I deleted) was very close to rick's, I said 1350 to 1650 depending on the layout. Rick said 1200-1500. Not too far off.

So although I don't agree with quoting online estimates...the job described was not all that out of line with rick's estimate. Its the principle of quoting the job sight unseen that is a problem, not the estimate itself.

I disagree with Rick a lot too. But he is getting unecessarily targeted in this thread imo.
Good, as long as he takes the job I'll settle down.

[DuckButter]

The OP asked a question and Rick answered in the way saw fit. You chose to answer in the way you saw fit. Why do other plumbers feel they have to live up to Rick's prices? That is on them. You aren't anywhere near our area and should not affect you in the least.

The majority of the people here also complain they have people calling them all day to price shop. Rick's customers don't ask price. They ask when he can come.

What he does can't be all bad if he has enough work to turn away, has down time only when he chooses, doesn't advertise, and doesn't have to deal with price shoppers.

You can tell him 10 more times to do the job. He is not going to do it.
They don't...homeowners who get a free appraisal online do.

[MrsSeatDown]

They don't...homeowners who get a free appraisal online do.

That point is lost on this as his price was not far off from the guy that actually saw the job.

[MrsSeatDown]

Good, as long as he takes the job I'll settle down.

Then I guess you are gonna be stuck with your feathers ruffled, Duck:(

[DuckButter]

Sure. Crawl under this house without your shirt, and while your down there do this job.:D
No lie, I hadn't seen your post before I posted.

[ToUtahNow]

:itsover::itsover::itsover::itsover:

It would be a shame to lose all of this valuable information because a couple of members get cranky when they stay up past their bedtime.

Mark

[MrsSeatDown]

:itsover::itsover::itsover::itsover:

It would be a shame to lose all of this valuable information because a couple of members get cranky when they stay up past their bedtime.

Mark

You're right. I have a 7 am networking breakfast. Good Night:boring: Sweet dreams everybody!

[PLUMBER RICK]

Not just me Joey, the majority of other plumbers on this thread disagree with his estimate.
He should never have volunteered specifics on price or time, it's wrong.

When you aren't the one doing the work or haven't seen the job you have NO right to offer an estimate, but he does it all the time.
This isn't intended as an outright antagonistic act...there IS a point here.
He needs to do that job, put his money where his mouth is, or stop offering free estimates online for other plumbers to live up to.

do you still not get it:rolleyes:

the guy was asking for a ballpark price. based on his pretty decent description i gave him my pretty good guesstimate.

considering he already had a $1600 price from his regular plumber that he posted the next day. i would say my guess was right on target for what he was looking at.

now if the plumber who actually looked at the job and used my guesstimate for the price to get the job. he would be as big a fool as you are right now.

if you don't want to help out on a forum that is open to both pros and homeowners and diy's then honestly, go back to your other forum you joined and have fun getting bored. amazing you are still up at 2am est.

i guess the phone hasn't rung today:rolleyes:

get established and get to the point you need to turn away work. then you won't be so bitter when i give honest advise. it doesn't happen overnight as i've tried to say for the last 4 years;)

rick.

[Service Guy]

I have learned a lot already from both rick and duck...now you two need to kiss and make friends.:kiss: :lovies:

[Service Guy]

Rick, the way you brag about your plumbing business, I'd think you'd be a retired millionaire by now.
How long have you been at it? Me. Only one year in business. I ain't making much...yet.

[DuckButter]

Then I guess you are gonna be stuck with your feathers ruffled, Duck:(
Not at all.
This is where you guys don't read me well.
I think it's rediculous when I see anyone offer free estimates, hard earned experience or openly discuss prices with total strangers online.
Rick does that compulsively, personally I'm sure he's a great guy, but to a fault it would seem.

He mentioned Bestline above, seeming to not realize I had no part of that conundrum...though another member was responsible for posting his site here, Rick was the one to pursue the topic right up to meeting the guy in person. (the whole thing was silly...was he going to rough him up if he were a bad guy?)

Turns out the price gouger wasn't such a bad guy afterall.
In fact, I even welcomed him to the forum when he first popped in.

My experience with Ricks posts is that maybe he undersells himself, after 30+ years I would think he'd be alot further along on the finance/business end of the deal.

As for turning work away, I do too...did today because I know the person who referred the job and don't care if they find someone else.

I find myself wondering if maybe it's easier to be angry with those who are more successful than it is to stand up to fear or maybe take some risks...either way there is MUCH to learn from the whole thing.

Feathers, not ruffled...just neatly perched in a place to learn something.
Maybe experience, or maybe just what not to do.

Again, he really should just do this job to shut me up.

[DuckButter]

do you still not get it:rolleyes:

the guy was asking for a ballpark price. based on his pretty decent description i gave him my pretty good guesstimate.

considering he already had a $1600 price from his regular plumber that he posted the next day. i would say my guess was right on target for what he was looking at.

now if the plumber who actually looked at the job and used my guesstimate for the price to get the job. he would be as big a fool as you are right now.

if you don't want to help out on a forum that is open to both pros and homeowners and diy's then honestly, go back to your other forum you joined and have fun getting bored. amazing you are still up at 2am est.
You'd be very surprised at how many mebers here have joined that forum...careful with the insults McGruff.
i guess the phone hasn't rung today:rolleyes:
Oh, it has...and I'm not up to scheduling a thing for a day or two, I deserve a break after working even on the 4rth.
get established and get to the point you need to turn away work. then you won't be so bitter when i give honest advise. it doesn't happen overnight as i've tried to say for the last 4 years;)
I turn work away now.
rick.
Petty insult...not a real strong point in your argument, whatever that argument is.
I'll say it again, free online estimates are wrong, do the job, get it done in 8 hours...make me eat crow.

[DuckButter]

Rick, the way you brag about your plumbing business, I'd think you'd be a retired millionaire by now.
How long have you been at it? Me. Only one year in business. I ain't making much...yet.
Not trying to drag you into a debate or use your words for my own agenda, but thats part of my point.
And...I still don't think it's an 8 hour job for one guy...ya superplumber you.:eek:

[Service Guy]

Maybe, maybe not. I didn't say 8 hours, I said one day. Maybe 10 hours... I don't freakin' know since I haven't seen the job.:shrug:

[Service Guy]

The last crawlspace cast-iron repipe I did was around 40' of pipe and it took me 5 hours. By myself. I was sore after though.

[DuckButter]

I'd easily wager 2 guys in 8 hours, one running stock, the licensed guy scrambling along on his back, passing & recieving demo & stock from the runner.
If it were even a foot or two more I'd say maybe one guy in a day...but where you can't even duckwalk, the time is drastically increased.

[DuckButter]

The last crawlspace cast-iron repipe I did was around 40' of pipe and it took me 5 hours. By myself. I was sore after though.
Last crawl I did was just over 30' of 2" PVC for a laundry tie-in, it only took me a maybe 2 hours including cutting into the 4" CI stack, but there was no demo...the space was about 36" high so I was able to move around a lot faster.

Picture having your cordless, a bucket of tools, snap cutter, pipe, fittings, hangers, cord & drop light and the mess from CI demo while trying to manipulate all that sliding around on your back or belly...alone that isn't 8 hours for over 7 lengths.

[rick1643]

I seem to be on both sides of this. I would never give a price on a job unseen, too many variables involved. The homeowner usually sugar coats the job, when they tell me how easy the job will be, that scares me. As far as the time to do it, IF it is "as described", it could be done in a day. I used to do copper repipes on mobile homes everyday....two guys, complete repipe, one day.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Not at all.
This is where you guys don't read me well.
I think it's rediculous when I see anyone offer free estimates, hard earned experience or openly discuss prices with total strangers online.

this is where you're on the wrong forum. first off, it's not a free estimate. it was a ballpark price. a price i along with others seem to feel is realistic. even the contractor who is going to do the job is in the same range as my sight unseen guess. both in price and in time. this forum is open to all who enter. if i felt there was not enough info, i would have asked for more info, but still would give advise to get to that part.
i enjoy giving advise to both the pro and the homeowner. if that involves a $$$ figure no problem if i know it. i stay away from hvac as i'm not into it like plumbing, electrical, and tools.
some people have asked for a private pro's only forum. you found it already. that forum would bore me to death. no inter action with the public.

Rick does that compulsively, personally I'm sure he's a great guy, but to a fault it would seem.

He mentioned Bestline above, seeming to not realize I had no part of that conundrum...though another member was responsible for posting his site here, Rick was the one to pursue the topic right up to meeting the guy in person. (the whole thing was silly...was he going to rough him up if he were a bad guy?)

actually robert and zeljka were the ones to post his site. he was also the one who met leonard first.
i gave him the courtesy to meet him in person and listen to what he had to say. he's actually a nice guy and is a business man. i don't agree with his pricing/ overhead cost, but most of us here didn't either.

Turns out the price gouger wasn't such a bad guy afterall.
In fact, I even welcomed him to the forum when he first popped in.

My experience with Ricks posts is that maybe he undersells himself, after 30+ years I would think he'd be alot further along on the finance/business end of the deal.

maybe i'm much farther along than you think. in fact the 3 hours at the bank yesterday was to juggle around my savings to protect it with the fdic limits. 100k is the limit for an individual and 400k is the limit with a spouse. then you have immediate family members that are good for 100k each. by the way nieces and nephews don't count as a beneficiary for the fdic.

so worrying about finance and the business end of the deal is what i do very well. or i wouldn't have had to be at the bank yesterday:rolleyes:

As for turning work away, I do too...did today because I know the person who referred the job and don't care if they find someone else.

I find myself wondering if maybe it's easier to be angry with those who are more successful than it is to stand up to fear or maybe take some risks...either way there is MUCH to learn from the whole thing.

contracting is a risk. experience is what separates the risk from failure. trenchless pipebursting is an educated risk. fortunately i have figured out what works and what doesn't. early on it was very scary and a restless night before the big pulls. now it's just a hard days work. with plenty of sleep and a good long shower after wards.

Feathers, not ruffled...just neatly perched in a place to learn something.
Maybe experience, or m