AZI
07-17-2008, 09:29 AM
Hi Everyone. I have a question which may be hard to answer without photos and complete details but nevertheless.
My parents live in a commercial style condo. The plumbing is 30 years old and there seems to be a leak every few weeks there. They have two units, one which they kept for a live in or for one of their daughters and was rarely used, the other which they live in.
The concierge found water damage in the kitchen of the party room of the condo which is one floor beneath this condo my parents own. The water damage consisted of mold on the ceiling and damage to the oak of the cabinets. The super inspected our unit above which I go to now and then and stay in now and then. He commented on a hole in the faucet of the tub. The hole is on the under belly where the diverter meets the aluminum. I saw this hole for at least a year and never thought that water could get behind the faucet, up half an inch, into the and behind the tiles. I should have changed the faucet but was preoccupied with day to day caregiving for my parents, keeping up with errands, shopping, cooking and renovating another unit to be sold. I also did not shower there more than once a week as i had my own condo elsewhere.
A week later they still had a leak onto the party room kitchen and came back into the unit and found a dripping toilet tank. This caused condensation to the pipe which i witnessed. Yet another issue to be upset about. But the toilet was a good six feet to the left of the water damage. Still the sweating was obvious to the naked eye after a hole was cut in the ceiling.
At this point I brought in a master plumber who commented that the toilet tank dripping would cause condensation and over a long period of time, damage below. He also commented that it was rather far from most of the damage. When he looked at the old spout (it had already been replaced), he said "no way" but I'm not sure how professionally he was assessing it or if he just wanted to be paid for replacing a faucet in the kitchen and a cartridge in the bathroom sink and couldn't be bothered with the issue.
One day i thought i should stay in the unit and do some of my own investigating. I heard water running down behind my shower wall, went into the kitchen below the unit on the fifth floor and got a chair, peeked up the hole that was cut in the ceiling and found water running down along both the hot and cold pipes. I called the super at his home to let him know who earlier, I begged to keep looking elsewhere for weeks and stop focussing on my unit (parents unit), and told him what i found. I got a response to the effect of, yeah the leak is not fixed yet. Since the spout to my tub was already changed, I'm now wondering how much damage the faucet actually caused when compared to the loose joints behind the wall which was later found two floors above mine.
Though i was not going to be charged, my parents and I were very upset from the start by this and I still have no closure as to how much the unit we own actually caused when compared to the loose joints.
One thing about our damaged faucet it was sealed, but i think the seal was old and worn beneath the spout. It was also flush to the wall. These spouts are not hollow either, the have a plastic filling inside.
Another problem also was that water was coming in through our fan above probably for years because the jacuzzis in the building have a faulty over flow drain. Because i do not live in the unit i did not catch it but my sister once did when she was there and complained that water was coming through the fan above to the concierge. It appears that each time the lady above took a bath, if the water level is too high above the over flow drain, then it leaks onto the floor and into the unit below through the fan. We received an elaborate letter from management explaining this when it happened again and other than asking the resident to not fill the water too high, this is all the building has done since the building was built with the jacuzzi's in the 80's.
So here is the question. I also found a constant drip due to the fact that the handle to the shower was not closing all the way at times. So that constant drip would travel along the underbelly of the faucet and may have travelled up behind the faucet (which was tightly flush to the wall by the way) causing moisture below? I'm amazed, at it would have to travel against gravity for a bit, at least for half an inch before there was an opening in the tile.
Anyways. I received threats from management when i told them i would tell the board after they still, even after all the problems with the joints causing water to flow down the hot and cold water pipes, accused the faucet to be part of the problem causing damage below. I think our unit had problems that should have been fixed. I think moisture was caused below by both the toilet and the faucet but how much is what i am still wondering even after so much time has passed.
I went through hell for weeks, and still am upset over the lack of closure around this. No one is ever charged in this building for anything. And I realized its because the super and management make so many mistakes that if they were to charge residents they would be in the dog house themselves for every mistake they make.
I'm actually pissed that they do not bring in plumbers to diagnose issues and rely on the super for everything. This is a high end condo in a high end area. Just recently they made an announcement that the super will replace all the valves to the laundry room and the bathroom. To save money of course.
Before I rant on too much...I want some peoples opinions. How much damage was caused by the spout, the toilet, and the loose joints three units above behind the wall.
My parents live in a commercial style condo. The plumbing is 30 years old and there seems to be a leak every few weeks there. They have two units, one which they kept for a live in or for one of their daughters and was rarely used, the other which they live in.
The concierge found water damage in the kitchen of the party room of the condo which is one floor beneath this condo my parents own. The water damage consisted of mold on the ceiling and damage to the oak of the cabinets. The super inspected our unit above which I go to now and then and stay in now and then. He commented on a hole in the faucet of the tub. The hole is on the under belly where the diverter meets the aluminum. I saw this hole for at least a year and never thought that water could get behind the faucet, up half an inch, into the and behind the tiles. I should have changed the faucet but was preoccupied with day to day caregiving for my parents, keeping up with errands, shopping, cooking and renovating another unit to be sold. I also did not shower there more than once a week as i had my own condo elsewhere.
A week later they still had a leak onto the party room kitchen and came back into the unit and found a dripping toilet tank. This caused condensation to the pipe which i witnessed. Yet another issue to be upset about. But the toilet was a good six feet to the left of the water damage. Still the sweating was obvious to the naked eye after a hole was cut in the ceiling.
At this point I brought in a master plumber who commented that the toilet tank dripping would cause condensation and over a long period of time, damage below. He also commented that it was rather far from most of the damage. When he looked at the old spout (it had already been replaced), he said "no way" but I'm not sure how professionally he was assessing it or if he just wanted to be paid for replacing a faucet in the kitchen and a cartridge in the bathroom sink and couldn't be bothered with the issue.
One day i thought i should stay in the unit and do some of my own investigating. I heard water running down behind my shower wall, went into the kitchen below the unit on the fifth floor and got a chair, peeked up the hole that was cut in the ceiling and found water running down along both the hot and cold pipes. I called the super at his home to let him know who earlier, I begged to keep looking elsewhere for weeks and stop focussing on my unit (parents unit), and told him what i found. I got a response to the effect of, yeah the leak is not fixed yet. Since the spout to my tub was already changed, I'm now wondering how much damage the faucet actually caused when compared to the loose joints behind the wall which was later found two floors above mine.
Though i was not going to be charged, my parents and I were very upset from the start by this and I still have no closure as to how much the unit we own actually caused when compared to the loose joints.
One thing about our damaged faucet it was sealed, but i think the seal was old and worn beneath the spout. It was also flush to the wall. These spouts are not hollow either, the have a plastic filling inside.
Another problem also was that water was coming in through our fan above probably for years because the jacuzzis in the building have a faulty over flow drain. Because i do not live in the unit i did not catch it but my sister once did when she was there and complained that water was coming through the fan above to the concierge. It appears that each time the lady above took a bath, if the water level is too high above the over flow drain, then it leaks onto the floor and into the unit below through the fan. We received an elaborate letter from management explaining this when it happened again and other than asking the resident to not fill the water too high, this is all the building has done since the building was built with the jacuzzi's in the 80's.
So here is the question. I also found a constant drip due to the fact that the handle to the shower was not closing all the way at times. So that constant drip would travel along the underbelly of the faucet and may have travelled up behind the faucet (which was tightly flush to the wall by the way) causing moisture below? I'm amazed, at it would have to travel against gravity for a bit, at least for half an inch before there was an opening in the tile.
Anyways. I received threats from management when i told them i would tell the board after they still, even after all the problems with the joints causing water to flow down the hot and cold water pipes, accused the faucet to be part of the problem causing damage below. I think our unit had problems that should have been fixed. I think moisture was caused below by both the toilet and the faucet but how much is what i am still wondering even after so much time has passed.
I went through hell for weeks, and still am upset over the lack of closure around this. No one is ever charged in this building for anything. And I realized its because the super and management make so many mistakes that if they were to charge residents they would be in the dog house themselves for every mistake they make.
I'm actually pissed that they do not bring in plumbers to diagnose issues and rely on the super for everything. This is a high end condo in a high end area. Just recently they made an announcement that the super will replace all the valves to the laundry room and the bathroom. To save money of course.
Before I rant on too much...I want some peoples opinions. How much damage was caused by the spout, the toilet, and the loose joints three units above behind the wall.