Reasonable cost to replace drain line (job done)

[jrowler]

The original thread is closed but I did want to report that we had the job done yesterday. Here are the particulars: The plumber and his helper showed up at 8am and left around 2:30pm. As near as I can tell the helper did the work under the house; the plumber was in and out getting the permit, parts, hauling away the pipe and whatever else they do when they leave. He also went down under the house several times to check or advise, and at the end to check for leaks. They cleaned up after the job. He was apparently expecting to meet the inspector at the house this morning, too, but the inspector showed up without calling him first so he didn't have to. The inspection went fine. We paid $1600 for the job.

One adjustment to my original description of the job. I got my tape out and measured (across the floor) where I recall the pipe runs, and my guess is the run is a little shorter than the 80 feet I said--maybe 65-70 feet.

Now, from reading much of the original thread I imagine there are folks here who figure I'm making the whole thing up for mysterious reasons of my own, but that's the way it went. :) I posted on the forum for the exact reason I stated, which was to get a feel for whether the plumber's quote was fair. With your help, we decided it was and went with it. So thanks to you all.

[ToUtahNow]

Thank you for taking the time to let us know how it went. Too many people ask for advise yet never return with an final outcome. I apologize that your thread was slightly distracted but a lot of us are very passionate about what we do.

Mark

[DuckButter]

I second the thanks.
Very few take the time to return, you did.
I figured it was more than an 8 hour, one man day.

[JCsPlumbing]

With regards to this inspection: Is everybody's local inspectors like ours. We would have had to plug the line and all fixtures with a test 6' above the floor. Leaks on anything untouched would be required to be corrected.

Now go give them a contract price and see what happens.(Sarcastic)

Now, with that said, I cannot get a time for an inspection at all. Not even a 2 hr. window. The inspectors begin their inspections at 8 a.m. and the inspection must be called in the day before only. So basically, I have to shut the plumbing down for 24 hours.

I've ran into situations such as this where it seems extreme to me and have double checked & debated with the inspector, head of inspections (his boss), and code enforcement of N.C. (the head of inspections boss) with no success.

Is it this way everywhere?

J.C.

[PLUMBER RICK]

glad it worked out. did you get to see the old pipe and how bad was it?

did the inspector actually crawl under the house or just take a flashlight peek in the crawl space?

please elaborate.

rick.

[DuckButter]

With regards to this inspection: Is everybody's local inspectors like ours. We would have had to plug the line and all fixtures with a test 6' above the floor. Leaks on anything untouched would be required to be corrected.

Now go give them a contract price and see what happens.(Sarcastic)

Now, with that said, I cannot get a time for an inspection at all. Not even a 2 hr. window. The inspectors begin their inspections at 8 a.m. and the inspection must be called in the day before only. So basically, I have to shut the plumbing down for 24 hours.

I've ran into situations such as this where it seems extreme to me and have double checked & debated with the inspector, head of inspections (his boss), and code enforcement of N.C. (the head of inspections boss) with no success.

Is it this way everywhere?

J.C.
Same here, except we test at 10' head or 5 psi...which means you'd have had to find a way to plug & pressurize the whole system, unless the inspector allows a running test.
Inspectors often give a 4 hour window, so you figure half a day gone.
You can only call them the morning of inspection, no scheduling.

[JCsPlumbing]

Sounds like the same degree of aggravation Duck. Guess I've got no reason to *****. :o

They've eliminated the air test here as far as I know on PVC. Not supposed to do it.

No running test.

And who knows what's gonna' happen under test. That's why I say it's impossible to price sight unseen an sometimes AFTER seeing it. I just know some would not test or forget to price for it.

Remember, not only would you have to remove/replace/test the ci line, you would also have to dismantle & plug the kitchen sink, all lavs., remove/plug the toilets, plug the tubs & showers, w/m or whatever else is on the replaced branch for the test.

Got a san. tee in the wall that won't hold the test? Got to open the wall and make it code/test worthy. Then you gotta' put everything else back together up to code. You'll have to replace that ci flange that falls apart when you remove any toilets. You'll have to replace the p-traps that fall apart. AND WE WOULD HAVE TO CALL BACK FOR A FINAL HERE if you removed a toilet, trap etc. Yep, they'd come back and check for caulking or leaks.

That's a good inspection giving the customer a real thorough product, but more cost.

I think the customer got a steal and hope both parties came out happy.

J.C.

[rombo]

My inspectors would be happy with running test. They actually might be pissed you got them out there for something so small. They are extremly understaffed around here

[Service Guy]

The 'official' inspection system is as painful as JC describes here in North Carolina. However, the inspectors are understaffed in my area and they are pretty cool about things. Being in service work, I rarely even pull any permits. The last cast-iron repipe I did passed inspection. I didn't do a water-test, since people were living in the house, I just installed everything and called for the inspection. The inspector was just happy that everything was upsized to code for the laundry machine to 3" horizontal pvc in the crawlspace. I had to studor-vent the 2" laundry vent-stack...all passed. He didn't evn go in the crawlspace, I think he just peeked in with a flashlight for 2 seconds.:D

[toolaholic]

JC Your inspection time situation is why GOOD plumbers BOOTLEG SMALL jobs more and more. I would not have,not done a 10' head of water on that job. Are You kidding Me? ,an inspector going in a crawler? My friend ,a great,old fashion, S.F. plumber said this to Me,
on the 1/2 bath I added in a SF garage [ yes .permitted ,and signed off].
" I, never would have pulled a permit for that job, Any little permit is a $600 add on for My time,hanging out for an inspector. On that little job. I framed up and rocked,a 4' and 6' wall with door, broke up concrete ,added floor drain with trap primer,supplied and plumbed laundry tray,toilet,wall hung Lav. ,Painted,insulated,all cast iron,Had to DRAW PLANS.
fart fan 2 new circuits. All for around $15,000. PERMIT FEES $1600. Was worth $25,000
Yes,I screwed up big time on the money! Won't be the last time ,I'm sure.

Will i bootleg the next little SF job? You Guess

[DuckButter]

JCS, you bring to light a critical point...
I was informed that inspections in the area this job was done are VERY slack...inspectors won't even bother looking under the house. (inspection?)

Service Guy makes another good point, here, depending on how well you know ther inspector & how well he trusts your work, you might get to do a running test.

However, there's almost NO way to get a same day inspection.
You have to call the morning after the job is completed, they usually give you a 4 hour window which is usually mid-day or afternoon.
You have to figure half a day into your time to account for that as well as time to test.

[DuckButter]

JC Your inspection time situation is why GOOD plumbers BOOTLEG SMALL jobs more and more. I would not have,not done a 10' head of water on that job. Are You kidding Me? ,an inspector going in a crawler? My friend ,a great,old fashion, S.F. plumber said this to Me,
on the 1/2 bath I added in a SF garage [ yes .permitted ,and signed off].
" I, never would have pulled a permit for that job, Any little permit is a $600 add on for My time,hanging out for an inspector. On that little job. I framed up and rocked,a 4' and 6' wall with door, broke up concrete ,added floor drain with trap primer,supplied and plumbed laundry tray,toilet,wall hung Lav. ,Painted,insulated,all cast iron,Had to DRAW PLANS.
fart fan 2 new circuits. All for around $15,000. PERMIT FEES $1600. Was worth $25,000
Yes,I screwed up big time on the money! Won't be the last time ,I'm sure.

Will i bootleg the next little SF job? You Guess

Valid point, but there's one thing to consider that I've seen happen...
If something, anything goes wrong...say the homeowner mistakes ground water for a leak and decides it's your fault...they call the town after going back and forth with you after you investigate and conclude it's rainwater.

The inspector comes out after being called....
Here it would most likely be a healthy scolding & double permit fee's, but all too often the plumber gets fined, or if the inspector is rubbed the wrong way, your license is suspended.

[NHMaster3015]

Though inspections seem like a pain in the ***, the true purpose of them is to protect you the plumber from liability, not the homeowner. If you don't pull a permit, and there's a problem after the fact, now you have a problem with lawyers.

[toolaholic]

Thanks Duck, I am aware that the dice are rolled on this. What's always been behind Me.
My work is neat ,at least to code, never had a job a didn't throw in an xtra, Son and I end up being friends with our customers,Much repeat work. Any problems,I've always taken care of,no charge,even when It's wasn't My doing. This fall SF permit fees May double.
Plumbing Insp. said. " We will have more unpermitted jobs than ever"
Any S.F. Employee, can and does get a Free SEX change operation if desired.
Taxpayers foot the bill! One more reason the permit fees will rise a lot this spring.
I would love some of You go through the permit process in S.F. It's a matter of time before some nut pulls shootout at this building! Not recommending this ,of course!

[PLUMBER RICK]

Thanks Duck, I am aware that the dice are rolled on this. What's always been behind Me.
My work is neat ,at least to code, never had a job a didn't throw in an xtra, Son and I end up being friends with our customers,Much repeat work. Any problems,I've always taken care of,no charge,even when It's wasn't My doing. This fall SF permit fees May double.
Plumbing Insp. said. " We will have more unpermitted jobs than ever"
Any S.F. Employee, can and does get a Free SEX change operation if desired.
Taxpayers foot the bill! One more reason the permit fees will rise a lot this spring.
I would love some of You go through the permit process in S.F. It's a matter of time before some nut pulls shootout at this building! Not recommending this ,of course!


tool, bet ya that beverly hills is tuffer to get an inspection.

it's a telephone lottery to get to ask for inspection. they don't use an answering machine and pull from the list. it's first come first serve everyday and you have maybe a 15 minute window to get on the inspectors list. it doesn't carry over to the next day.

honestly it's easier to get a golf time at the countries busiest city course.

how do i know? been there done that. my buddy an electrician who plays 3 times a week finally gave up on the inspector and waited till i was ready for inspection. he used my inspection for his electrical at the same time.

golf course. just call 1 week in advance at 3 minutes before 8. play with the switchboard message menu until 8:00 exactly. too early and it cuts you off. too late and it's too late.

not going to tell you what the course is, but any good search will give you that info:D

p.s. i can't remember the last time any city inspector has crawled under a house or building. what are they inspecting? people actually think they are getting a good job. until something happens or i crawl under with a camera. just ask mark.

rick.

[NHMaster3015]

The plumbing inspector in my town climbs on roofs, crawls under trailers, crawles through attics too, but then he's a young guy with high standards. Life will eventually beat that out of him. It usually does.

[NHMaster3015]

Just remembered this from an inspector in Portsmouth. He said " If you don't do your job right, you're in trouble. If I don't do my job right, we're both in trouble"

[jrowler]

Yes, I saw the old pipe. Much of it was clear, but one section of perhaps 10 feet was plugged to the point that the only passage visible was the 1" hole the plumber's snaking had made the previous Sunday. I also saw several feet of pipe that was blistered with rust on the outside.

The inspector leaned into the access hole with a flashlight, saying "They don't like us to go down there anymore." He told me the slope looked good (what he could see, obviously) and that he was mainly interested in the tie-in from the new 2" line to the existing 3" line, which was possible to see from there. (The plumber cut out the old junction and replaced it.)

I dunno when the plumber actually scheduled the next-day appointment, but he did mention he was unable to get through between 8 and 9am to get the window. The inspector did have his phone number written down, but said he had just been too busy to call him to tell him when he would arrive. I'm glad it worked out that the plumber didn't have to be there, for his sake. It must be murder on smaller jobs, to have to take time for that.

Regarding the posts on pressure-testing. Do they pressure test drain line? Gee, I've done enough sprinkler line myself to have confidence that a guy can glue unpressurized drain pipe well enough to hold. But I imagine that's just an amateur's point of view, eh?

[DuckButter]

Yes, I saw the old pipe. Much of it was clear, but one section of perhaps 10 feet was plugged to the point that the only passage visible was the 1" hole the plumber's snaking had made the previous Sunday. I also saw several feet of pipe that was blistered with rust on the outside.

The inspector leaned into the access hole with a flashlight, saying "They don't like us to go down there anymore." He told me the slope looked good (what he could see, obviously) and that he was mainly interested in the tie-in from the new 2" line to the existing 3" line, which was possible to see from there. (The plumber cut out the old junction and replaced it.)

I dunno when the plumber actually scheduled the next-day appointment, but he did mention he was unable to get through between 8 and 9am to get the window. The inspector did have his phone number written down, but said he had just been too busy to call him to tell him when he would arrive. I'm glad it worked out that the plumber didn't have to be there, for his sake. It must be murder on smaller jobs, to have to take time for that.

Regarding the posts on pressure-testing. Do they pressure test drain line? Gee, I've done enough sprinkler line myself to have confidence that a guy can glue unpressurized drain pipe well enough to hold. But I imagine that's just an amateur's point of view, eh?

It's required for inspections in most jurisdictions...usually 5 psi or a head test where the pipes are filled with water ten feet above the highest fitting.

[toolaholic]

10 ft. of head water, is a pain on old work tie in,but it's the right thing to do.