Teaching plastic pipe

[JONESY]

During the first year of my HVAC program I teach about a 10 day class covering plastic pipe to my high school juniors. The lesson covers PVC, CPVC, PE, PEX, and vinyl tubing with the most emphasis on PVC. For a test project I put the kids under a crawl space in six groups of three to complete a DWV system. They have a 3" vertical main line in the center of a piece of 1/2" plywood that is 4' x 4'. The have to tie in 4 other fixtures to this main line using 2" pipe. The fixtures are located at the outside corners of the plywood. They're given the blueprints, a length of 3" pipe, a couple sections of 2" pipe, wyes, double wyes, caps, 90's, 45's, purple primer, glue, tools, strapping, etc... When all is said and done it is pressurized with about 10# of air pressure to check for leaks. The whole thing consists of about 30 joints total when finished. Any thoughts or ideas about this lesson? Anything I should change or add? Looking for any and all comments or constructive criticism.

[rombo]

You could add a ball test to make sure they understand proper slope. But you already sound like you have a way better project then i had at school. The one I did was a joke it was a abs cast mixture no pressure test most of the peices of cast were pre cut. The quicker you were done the quicker you left.

[JCsPlumbing]

Sounds like a fun program. It would be nice to have some sort of grading for speed and neatness. They might like the competition. Be sure to be safe though.

Alot of PVC manufacturers frown upon air testing as it could shatter & injure someone under pressure. Never seen it but read about it.

J.C.

[NHMaster3015]

could you take a photo of the finished product for us?

I do something similar with my guys except we have an entire house they can rough in and test. I like the module idea though. Is it re-useable? and can it be moved around the classroom?

I would have them test with 5lbs air, that being the std code requirement and foam core should never be pressurized past 7lbs.

It can be helpfull to have them make transitions from pvc to abs properly also. I make them do elastomeric coupling method and Male\female transition as well. ( pvc to cast is not a bad idea either)

Do you point out and stress the code requirements also?
such as hanger spacing and type. Proper pitch, use of fittings, prohibited fittings (I like to throw in one every once in a while)

It's so much fun ain't it :D

[plumberscrack]

Seems to me a few things are missing :shrug:

The real world enviroment of a crawlspace would consist of spiders, spider webs, snakes, snake skins, rats, dead rats, rat traps, fiberglass insulation, asbestos insulation, broken beer bottles, rusty beer cans, fungus, mold, mildew, spiders, centipedes, camel crickets

Add all of those things, make them climb through a 16" x 16" access hole with several nails poking out. Turn out the lights and hand them a 60 watt bulb then see who can do it properly :have-fun:

Did I mention spiders?

And when they are about halfway done; dump a bucket of water down the 3" to simulate a toilet flushing :grin-devilish:

[JCsPlumbing]

Plumberscrack has the right answer. Also, make the crawlspace 18" maximum. And obstacles (piers) in the way.

J.C.

[HVAC HAWK]

Plumberscrack has the right answer. Also, make the crawlspace 18" maximum. And obstacles (piers) in the way.

J.C.

and then unplug the light and see if someone has a flashlight

[JCsPlumbing]

And put a 12" duct diagonally underneath one way, a bunch of wires the other way nice and tight. :D

J.C.

[JCsPlumbing]

To complete the "Plumbers Fantasy Camp" I'd want to stand on top of the plywood and stomp it yelling "HURRY UP!"

J.C.

[wrench spinner]

It has to be at least 95* in the crawlspace!

[TOPDAWG]

How about adding some floor joist and have them run some water lines while their at it? Let them figure out how not to screw themselves when they are doing rough-in work buy putting pipes in the way of where other pipes have to go!!

[Service Guy]

This is why plumbing school is practically useless. I learned the trade working as an apprentice in real-world conditions...thats the only way to do it right imo.

[DuckButter]

These guys are onto something.
Give them something thats not on the blueprint..make them be creative and improvise as a "bonus question" of sorts.

Maybe set them up to have to use an offset or two (1.41 for a 45 for example).

[Masterplumb]

This is why plumbing school is practically useless. I learned the trade working as an apprentice in real-world conditions...thats the only way to do it right imo.

They're only high school juniors Carl. Think of the head start they will have over the other apprentices IF they decide to go into our field. I think it's great and we need more of these programs.

[Service Guy]

They're only high school juniors Carl. Think of the head start they will have over the other apprentices IF they decide to go into our field. I think it's great and we need more of these programs.

You are right, it is useful for high-schoolers. I just know some guys who had plumbing classes and are terrible. And yet some of the best plumbers I have ever known never went to any 'school' for it.

But yes, it can provide a head-start.

[NHMaster3015]

It has to be at least 95* in the crawlspace!

Don't forget the cat ****

[JCsPlumbing]

And a 50' crawl draggin' all their gear.

That desk is looking better all the time right WrenchSpinner? :)

J.C.

[cpw]

You are right, it is useful for high-schoolers. I just know some guys who had plumbing classes and are terrible. And yet some of the best plumbers I have ever known never went to any 'school' for it.

But yes, it can provide a head-start.
I would say that this applies to any job. There are people who never went to school who are great; and people who went to school who don't know their *** from their elbow. It depends more on the person than the education. On balance, however, I think that learning things in a structured format can be really beneficial and you can learn a lot fast. When you combine the "book" learning with a few years hands on practice, you can really start firing on all cylinders.

[wrench spinner]

And a 50' crawl draggin' all their gear.

That desk is looking better all the time right WrenchSpinner? :)

J.C.

ahhhhhhhhhhh I still miss it if I Didnt I wouldnt be here reliving my "Glory Days!!!!!"

[JCsPlumbing]

Take me with you Wrench! You've got climate control, liquor, and pencils. :eek:

J.C.

[Service Guy]

I would say that this applies to any job.

Yes and no.

A chemist need lots of schooling and book-smarts.

A plumber need more real-life experience than anything else.

[wrench spinner]

:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao::nyaa-nyaa4:Take me with you Wrench! You've got climate control, liquor, and pencils. :eek:

J.C.

[gear junkie]

Yes and no.

A chemist need lots of schooling and book-smarts.

A plumber need more real-life experience than anything else.
This is where I disagree with you Carl. Having 20 years experience isn't always an indicator of workmanship. You can learn the wrong way the first year and spend the next 19 years continuing to do the wrong way. I see this all the time with hvac. I think a combination of both is needed. Learn the basic skills in the classroom and expand on them in the field.

[PLUMBER RICK]

darren, i have volunteered for the last 5 years at l.a. trade tech for an annual meeting with the faculty/ staff of the plumbing department.

truthfully, i find that they are stressing too much code and not enough theory. what good is understanding code when they haven't a clue what is right and what is wrong.

i think my code class in the u.a. apprenticeship was taught in the 3rd. year. on the job training with a knowledgeable journeyman is great. the classroom is great for the thinking knowledge, but it has to be brought to the field to apply it.

i think if you really want to have fun with the class.

set up the tri stand and let them do the roundup threadmaster contest.

i for one loved this contest. it was all out power and eyes and hands.

if you need a refresher, just ask or p.m.

rick.

keep up the good work with the kids. i'm not getting any younger:eek:

[Service Guy]

This is where I disagree with you Carl. Having 20 years experience isn't always an indicator of workmanship. You can learn the wrong way the first year and spend the next 19 years continuing to do the wrong way. I see this all the time with hvac. I think a combination of both is needed. Learn the basic skills in the classroom and expand on them in the field.

OK, good point Ben. I have even met those guys that have 20 years experience and still are hacks. I learn by asking questions and reading, not by school, but that is just my way. I passed the plumbing test on my first try without any classes.

[NHMaster3015]

This is why plumbing school is practically useless. I learned the trade working as an apprentice in real-world conditions...thats the only way to do it right imo.

Besides having a full sized house in our classroom, complete with kitchen, bath, 6 heating systems and 3 a\c set up's, my guys also do the plumbing for modular homes built by the construction trade program. Besides that I run the curricuum as a business so everyone gets a chance to be the owner, secretary, treasurer, foreman and worker bee. They punch in every day, take work orders, complete the job, collect the monopoly money etc.

[JONESY]

Fantastic comments!!! I also have my students clock-in and clock-out each day. It teaches them responsibility and I use each one's time card to help figure daily grades at the end of the week. I like the ball test idea - what kind of ball would you recommend? Ping pong ball, golf ball, etc...? 5# of air pressure - I like it. There is so much I would like to do each year, but due to budget limitations - my hands are tied in many areas. I average $5,000.00 each year to run two classes on. This year we have already been informed that this will cut 40% and there will be no equipment money. This is going to be one of those years where I beg, steal, & borrow - A LOT!!! I keep the projects in my shop small because of the cost of materials. I buy just enough to teach each lesson. Materials used for the projects like the PVC are used, installed, tested, cut out, and thrown in the dumpster. I do similiar projects with black iron screw pipe and grooved pipe (where I can reuse the fittings), copper pipe, polyethylene pipe, welded pipe, etc...as well as residential wiring and sheet metal. I reuse what I can. It would be great for every student to complete their own project, but for the sake of the almighty $$$ - I will continue to do group activities. It also helps teach team work, and honestly, not all students could complete these projects on their own in a timely manner. I pull names out of hat each time we do a team project. Great advice and info!!! Keep it coming baby!!!
Later, JONESY

[toolaholic]

Congrat's to both of You teachers,Kid's are lucky. There is one real world aspect to these classes. Da plumbers don't get paid

[gear junkie]

Besides having a full sized house in our classroom, complete with kitchen, bath, 6 heating systems and 3 a\c set up's, my guys also do the plumbing for modular homes built by the construction trade program. Besides that I run the curricuum as a business so everyone gets a chance to be the owner, secretary, treasurer, foreman and worker bee. They punch in every day, take work orders, complete the job, collect the monopoly money etc.
Is this a regular high school? The navy doesn't even this type of training facility.

[toolaholic]

Thats' sad

[NHMaster3015]

Is this a regular high school? The navy doesn't even this type of training facility.

Yep, just a plain old high school.

Jonsey: I get a whole lot of stuff for free on craigs list and also by keeping in touch with as many local plumbing and heating companies that let me have old stuff like sinks, faucets etc that they pull out of jobs. Even used cast iron pipe. Know what you mean about budget cuts but it's a sign of the times I guess. Do more with less they say. Last month they tore down the burger king to renovate it so I stopped in and got all the urinals, sloan valves, lavs, faucets, a 3 bay culinary sink, dishwasher, and even the roof top a\c units. all for free.

[DuckButter]

Is this a regular high school? The navy doesn't even this type of training facility.
Vo-tech part of my school had it when I was in high school.
HUGE room with a house built into it...that was just a few short years ago.