jetting a septic system

[plumberjr]

tomorrow will be the first time i will have jetted a septic system--i have jetted many times before, just not a septic system---im using my kj-1750 and yes it does jet very good in 4" pvc--i know it does
im just wondering if there are any do's or dont's for this--there is an outdoor c/out and about 35 pipe feet away is the 1st crock.i have repaired septic aerators and pumps, so i have a pretty good idea of how they work--its a 5 crock system and the liftstation is crock#5 which pumps about 60 feet slightly uphill to a leachbed. i will jet that line and from crock#1 into the house--is there anything else to clean without damaging or disturbing anything??im pretty sure i can open crock #1 and enter in there--if not, i know from snaking,the c/out is a cleanout tee, not a directional tee or wye
i do know a lot about this system as it is my parents home--i want to play with my new tools and show 'em off to my old man:D:D:D

any tips would be greatly appreciated

[plumberjr]

Anyone?????????????????//////

[JCsPlumbing]

What is a "crock"?

J.C.

[plumberjr]

Concrete lid at top of each tank or station

[JCsPlumbing]

I've installed all types of system for years but am a little lost on your description.

Why are you jetting it? You might teach me something but we usually get the repair calls too and no jetting or cabling has been required. Or preventative maintenance other than pumping & inspection.

Different areas, soil scientists, and health departments of course have different designs. Maybe yours is different.

I'm willing to learn.

J.C.

[plumberjr]

if you need to access different stations the waste water goes, you pull one of the concrete lids so you can see if the tank is full,backed up or if aerator is working---system is 27 years old

[plumberjr]

and also,septic systems are like sanitary sewers until they dump in the first tank---gravity takes the waste---instead of your doo-doo going for a long ride to get treated,you do it 30 feet from your back door---what im saying is septic systems can backup and have roots just like a san. sewer--so why wouldn't you want to snake,inspect or jet one

[Pipestone Kid]

and also,septic systems are like sanitary sewers until they dump in the first tank---gravity takes the waste---instead of your doo-doo going for a long ride to get treated,you do it 30 feet from your back door---what im saying is septic systems can backup and have roots just like a san. sewer--so why wouldn't you want to snake,inspect or jet one

I can understand "snake and inspect", but would you want to jet? It doesn't take long for 30 feet of pipe to fill with water and back up--especially if the blockage is beyond the first tank.

[wrench spinner]

OK septic system 101 plumberjr

As an installer in NY state I have done MANY MANY septic system installs and repairs..... you are right about the possiblity of roots clogging one up but snaking or jetting isnt going to do a thing with the actuall tile fields a.k.a. absorption fields for a couple of reasons:

1. The fields if clogged by grease are clogged in the biomat which is the surface where the gravel meets the existing soils.... not inside the pipe

2. If there are roots in the pipe there are roots outside the pipe constricting it.

3. If you jet it where in the #$% do you think the water is going to go!!! You have a finite volume of water that you can put in before it blows out of the ground.

4. Cameraing the absorption beds isnt going to tell you much because the "working" part of the spetic fields isnt in the pipe at all it is at the inteface between the soil and gravel where all the bacteria grow and break up the waste into water and nitrogen.

I can keep going but there is just too much to type. DO NOT jet or snake your septic fields the only thing that you can possibly do is damage something. And dont waste your time cameraing it any way. Just check to make sure that the tank isnt backing up if it is then you will have to repalce your existing system.

[JCsPlumbing]

Wrench, that's what I thought too but wasn't sure what he was doing. I've put them in when not plumbing for over 20 years.

Could he have a low pressure or sprinkler system clogged? Or is he just practicing? :D:D:D

J.C.

[OkieBill]

Flushing a leachbed from the end of the run backwards to the tank or weir does work in my experience but you need clean outs at the ends of the leach runs and a pumper available.

In SOME instances crud builds up in the leach lines and your leach holes reducing system performance a good flushing may help...

Another idea though not practicle for some is after the flush and pump is to actually let the leachfields recharge (dry)... This my require a few pumper trips depending on your system design.

Wrench Spinner if I remember right you are going for your C.E. Degree so I have a slightly more technical question:

With a 20+ year leach system would it be possible for the composition of the soil in the leach bed to change through use enough that you would need to do a perc test and evaluation of the existing systems capacity?

[wrench spinner]

well Bill as far as repercing a septic area it will tell you what the soils BETWEEN the trenches are like most septic systems fail because of the interface of the Biomat.


From http://www.drainfieldrepair.com/biomat.htm
"The biomat is a naturally occurring tar-like substance that forms on the bottoms and sides of the drainfield trenches. It is made up of living anaerobic (without oxygen) organisms, which feed on organic matter in the wastewater. As the biomat matures it grows thicker slowing down the flow of wastewater to the surrounding soil. As the wastewater passes through the biomat pathogenic organisms and viruses are removed. On the outside of the trench, beyond the biomat where the soil is not saturated, are living colonies of aerobic (with oxygen) bacteria. These aerobic bacteria colonies feed on the biomat and keep it from becoming so thick that wastewater will no longer pass through.

When soil floods these aerobic bacteria colonies will die off and no longer keep the biomat in check. The biomat will grow too thick and drainage will stop. Further, as these colonies die off they leave behind sulfides, which over time will clog soil passages stopping the flow of water. When the biomat grows too thick a waterproof barrier develops and absorption stops."

To fix this I have found that a product known as a microbial innoculator such as the WHITE KNIGHT System can help rejuvinate clogged biomats as well as the installation of a ATU or aerobic Treatment unit. Both of theses systems operate by adding aerobic bacteria to the treatment system.

[JCsPlumbing]

We've been reading about these (White Knight etc.) but have not installed one.

Have you or your familys business installed one with success in line restoration? I think if proven successful they might mandate their installation on new systems. Everyone has their own "treatment plant".

J.C.

[wrench spinner]

We havent installed a White Knight unfortunately there are local territories for this product and we were not able to get our foot in the door. I spoke with the president Mark Noga recently about them and he is a VERY VERY smart man and was able to give me a lot of information about them as well as a couple thousand successsful installations that I would be able to look at. If you would like I can get you his contact information tommorrow and speak with him in depth about the product as well as view any installations in your area

[plumberjr]

common sense here guys---i said jet all pipe from inside house to 1st tank--you can open the 1st lid and 3 feet down is the discharge into the septic---i fed the hose in there and kicked the pressure up when i got as far as i wanted to---the house always had issues --snaking every year or so---so i jetted it to CLEAN all the piping in the house and out to the tank---
if i was going to try to jet through the system itself i wouldnt be a plumber---i'd be an idiot --
i also jetted 1 more line---the last station pumps through a 1-1/2" pvc line about 17 feet uphill from where the pump sits .this is where the greywater exits the system and flows through the back 40---this line pumps so far--total of 75 pipe feet,that it gets quite a large amount of build up inside.--this being due to the fact that the entire line is uphill--everytime the pump shuts off the entire line is full of greywater,which has some debris in it.i jetted this line out also and you wouldnt believe the crap that came out--and also yhere is much better flow out of the discharge now----

UNDERSTAND NOW??????????

[JCsPlumbing]

I completely UNDERSTAND NOW!!!!!!!

Why has the house always had issues? Shouldn't something be changed in the design? Yes, a pump line can remain full all the time with the check valve. But I've went to repairs where there was no problem in the pump line (20+years old) so I'm curious as to why your folks' system has always had issues.

Wrench, last I checked White Knight and another company were seeking approval in N.C. so they might not have a system in the area.

J.C.

[cpw]

I can keep going but there is just too much to type. DO NOT jet or snake your septic fields the only thing that you can possibly do is damage something. And dont waste your time cameraing it any way. Just check to make sure that the tank isnt backing up if it is then you will have to repalce your existing system.
Aside from trying to pay for their jetter, is there any good reason the septic pumping companies want to sell you jetting of the lines and drainfield?

[plumberjr]

They bought the house fifteen years ago from sheriff auction--home sat empty for 3 years ---when we moved in--it was a nightmare--took 3 years to get it to work properly-- im no septic genius, but i was told once that the worst thing for a septic is to let it sit with no use--right or wrong????the aerator was missing and we were new to septic, so that made a huge difference-- the reason i cant peplace any piping is it is a split level and most of the backups happen in the area under cement--yes it sucks--but i jetted inside today and everything was working great--:d:d:d

[JCsPlumbing]

Aside from trying to pay for their jetter, is there any good reason the septic pumping companies want to sell you jetting of the lines and drainfield?

CPW, that's why I'm asking also. My families business has been installing, repairing, and servicing every type of septic system drawn for over 30 years. We haven't seen a purpose for jetting but plumberjr might have a situation where it might apply & I'm trying to figure out if that's the case.

J.C.

[plumberjr]

Good point cpw---the pumper guys around here do try that salespitch now that i think of it---what do you think,wrench?????

[JCsPlumbing]

They bought the house fifteen years ago from sheriff auction--home sat empty for 3 years ---when we moved in--it was a nightmare--took 3 years to get it to work properly-- im no septic genius, but i was told once that the worst thing for a septic is to let it sit with no use--right or wrong????the aerator was missing and we were new to septic, so that made a huge difference-- the reason i cant peplace any piping is it is a split level and most of the backups happen in the area under cement--yes it sucks--but i jetted inside today and everything was working great--:d:d:d

No matter what, getting a bunch of gunk out of the lines is always good to do. I'll have to check if letting a system "sit" is that bad for it. It kind of sounds like some DWV is level somewhere to me.

J.C.

[OkieBill]

Thanks for the info Wrench Spinner:)

It sounds like a leach field has a useful life span if I am reading correctly though there are a few remediation products that may help... I bet a White Knight aerobic unit would be great on a new installation though aerobic digestion may cause some "stink" problems from the system...




Sometimes I read what I want into posts or a post raises a question, did not mean to go off track Plumberjr:o

[JCsPlumbing]

Bill, from what I've read, these aerobic system are often brought in for system failure.

Yes, lateral lines (leech field) can have a service life. But that can be 50+years based on alot of factors.

Was the tank pumped regularly?
How many people lived there?
How much line was put in?
How large was the original tank?
Is the T-Pipe still present?
Original soil condition?
Depth of lines?
Etc. etc. etc.

You get the point. It's a concern, but not necessarily a dealbreaker depending on the situation.

J.C.