Water softener 0-ring connection keeps leaking

[The Wood Meister]

I have a Sears Kenmore water softener. Yesterday, I brought home more salt and went to fill it and to my surprise, it was sitting half full of water. I drained out the water and then noticed the inlet side of the plastic bypass valve was dripping water, which slowly filled the tank.

I removed the 2 plastic retainers and pulled the unit off the wall/bypass valve. I removed the old 0-rings and cleaned everything good and installed 2 new 0-rings, lubed up with some Vasoline. Slid it back on, installed clips and it still dripped! Argggg!!!

I pull it again and installed the next diameter (same 1/8" material, just larger around) larger 0-ring, thinking it may take up a little slack when compressed. Nope, still dripped! I've checked the inside and outside of the connection. NO cracks, no scratches, just nice and clean! For the life of me, I cannot get this thing to seal! It's an older unit, maybe 10 years, but works fine. Hate to scrap it and spend 500 bucks on a new one. Anyone have any suggestions? Short of coating the 0-rings with some RTV or Permatex #2 for a permanent install! LOL

(to get my wife back happy with soft water, the RTV is looking real promising about now. It could be dry by morning!)

Thanks.

Mark

[Killertoiletspider]

Never use a petroleum based product on rubber.

[NHMaster3015]

How old is the unit? Is it still under warranty? If so take it back. The Sears units are plastic crap. I don't remember manufactures them for sears but it's the same junk unit that HD sells.

[plumberscrack]

If it's a copper inlet pipe it may have a tiny pinhole right next to the connection. Look carefully. I agree with the Killer Spider, remove the vaseline and wipe it down good and dry. Hand tighten the nut then 1/4 turn with a wrench no more!. Be sure pipes are nice and straight and are going in all the way.

If it still leaks time, to reach into your wallet. 10 years old isn't worth a plumbing service call.

[PLUMBER RICK]

mark, i have repaired many of those plastic push in bypass valves. the problem is i get called after the valve has already pulled apart and flooded the garage or outside.

honestly, i doubt that an o-ring is the cause of your leak. i'm more under the impression that the plastic bypass plunger is fatiguing and ready to blow:barf:

don't want to scare you, but i think it's time to :trash-him:

better safe than sorry;)

rick.

[The Wood Meister]

Thanks everyone. It's atleast 12 years old. The 0-rings are the ones that go ON the bypass valve and those pipes slide into the two female counterparts on the top of the unit. So I guess buying a new one from Sears is not the best decision? LOL Any suggestions on brands? Personally, I don't really care for it, it makes me feel slimy when I try to rinse off. But,,,,my wife,,,,,,,,,,,,well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you know the drill! And I really can't justify 5 or 6 hundred right now for a new machine.

BTW...my wife is all for the RTV suggestion!! She REALLY likes the soft water! LOL

I'll go get a picture. Luckly, it's mounted up outside so any leaks are not an issue.

Should I try it again with DRY 0-rings? Or what do you use to help them slide on?

I've always used oil on 0-rings during my 16 years doing auto repair and auto A/C work.

Mark

http://www.wonders-in-wood.us/images/ridgid/watersoftner2.jpg

[The Wood Meister]

Well, goo'd up the 0-rings with clear RTV and shoved it back together. Will ck it tomorrow and see how it goes! One drip and it's off to the alley!

[gear junkie]

Next time lube orings with plumbers grease. It's silicon based and can be found in the faucet repair section at hd.

[The Wood Meister]

Well, the RTV did not work. Turned on the water and the pressure flexed the pipes some and drip, drip, drip. Next will be PLUNK as it goes in the alley. Oh well

Anyone have any suggestions on brands...........that won't break my bank? LOL Whirlpool at Lowes?

I know most don't like Sears, but this one lasted about 12 years. If I could fix the stinking leak, it might go another 5! LOL Hey, maybe some of the "Billy Mays Mighty Putty"????

[plumberscrack]

http://www.waterboss.com/

[The Wood Meister]

Thanks. I checked out the link and found the one that would work for us at Ace True Value. $399 is not too bad. Thing sure is short! LOL 25" tall. I may have to build a platform to get it up atleast even with my brick BBQ, which it sets next to.

Waterboss 700 (http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2407111&cp=&sr=1&origkw=water+softener&kw=water+softener&parentPage=search&searchId=36482819464)

Mark

[JCsPlumbing]

Make sure it has the proper grain capacity/resin bed to take care of your needs. Like for like stats as your old one-stick it in and good luck!:)

J.C.

[The Wood Meister]

Make sure it has the proper grain capacity/resin bed to take care of your needs. Like for like stats as your old one-stick it in and good luck!:)

J.C.


Ok, i'll ask, how do I determine those things? We have city water with iron pipes (copper in the house) and have "heard" that it is hard. Listening to my wife, the water must be like a brick! Me.....heck, I drink from the hose! LOL

In the specs, it says the following:
3/4" MHT inlet/outlet, FHT x MPT hoses included

What does it mean by "hoses included"? LOL My current one is, for lack of a better statement, "hard wired" in with copper pipe. Does this use rubber hoses like a washing machine? (as you can tell, I don't know much about softeners.)

Mark

[JCsPlumbing]

There I go opening my big mouth without all the information. I don't think I'm as versed in water softeners as others. But I know to look for those things. Your current model should have a "grain cpacity" to compare to the WaterBoss. And the resin tank in the WaterBoss might be the same size or smaller requiring more frequent regeneration. You need to determine what you need based on how much water you turn over & water hardness.

I drink from a hose too. :o

J.C.

[JCsPlumbing]

You can hook it up with a piece of Cocabola.

J.C.

[JCsPlumbing]

The WaterBoss might work fine for you but just guessing I'd tell you to get the current model of what you have now. Lasted 12 years and will probably be close to the right height. Shorter is better that taller for you.

J.C.

[The Wood Meister]

I found this on our City of Phoenix site.

The water in the City is considered to be very hard, running from about 10 to 17 grains per gallon (185 – 287 parts per million) of hardness. An addition of a water treatment device, like a softener or reverse osmosis unit, will help in reducing the hardness in your home.

As far as matching the old one, I have NO idea what the specs are/were. My inlaws said "hey, we'll buy you guys a water softener" so we said "ok"! Went to sears and bought one. I don't think there was much thought as to which one we chose, more mainly on cost to them.


Looks like the 700 should work ok. ( I guess! LOL)
Home Depot carries the 900 and no one here carries the 950.

[plumberscrack]

10-17 grains is considered EXTREMELY hard water. I suggest having it tested before spending money on something you don't need. Test kits can be purchased at HomeDepot.

I just installed a Waterboss 700 last week. Nice unit! It was hard piped with copper. The only hoses were for discharge and overflow. Once I figued out how to setup and program the controls it's pretty much hands free.

[NHMaster3015]

It is possible to measure the level of hard water by obtaining a free water testing kit. These are supplied by most water softening companies. There are several different scales used to describe the hardness of water in different contexts.

mmol/L (millimoles per litre)
mg/L calcium carbonate equivalent
grains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_%28measure%29)/gallon (gpg)
1 gr/U.S. gal = 17.11 mg/L
Parts per million weight/volume (ppm w/v or ppm m/v)
Various obsolete "degrees":

Clark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Clark_%28chemist%29) degrees (°Clark)/English degrees (°E)
conversion to mg/L calcium: divide by 0.175
One degree Clark corresponds to one grain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_%28measure%29) of calcium carbonate in one Imperial gallon of water which is equivalent to 14.28 parts calcium carbonate in 1,000,000 parts water.
Deutsche Härte (German hardness) (°dH)
conversion to mg/L calcium: divide by 0.14
One degree German corresponds to one part calcium oxide in 100,000 parts of water.
French degrees (°f) (letter to be written in lowercase to avoid confusion with degree Fahrenheit — not always adhered to)
conversion to mg/L calcium: divide by 0.25
One degree French corresponds to one part calcium carbonate in 100,000 parts of water.
American degrees
One degree American corresponds to one part calcium carbonate in 1,000,000 parts water (1 mg/L or 1 ppm)
Degrees of general hardness (dGH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DGH))
One degree of general hardness corresponds to 10 mg of calcium oxide or magnesium oxide per litre of water

Because it is the precise mixture of minerals dissolved in the water, together with the water's pH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH) and temperature, that determines the behaviour of the hardness, a single-number scale does not adequately describe hardness. Descriptions of hardness correspond roughly with ranges of mineral concentrations:

Soft: 0–20 mg/L as calcium
Moderately soft: 20–40 mg/L as calcium
Slightly hard: 40–60 mg/L as calcium
Moderately hard: 60–80 mg/L as calcium
Hard: 80–120 mg/L as calcium
Very Hard >120 mg/L as calcium

[The Wood Meister]

Made a few calls and found an Ace that will order the WaterBoss for me. It's paid for and will be here early Friday morning. Guess I have my Saturday job lined up! Thanks everyone, another crisis averted!

Mark

[Bob D.]

Well, goo'd up the 0-rings with clear RTV and shoved it back together. Will ck it tomorrow and see how it goes! One drip and it's off to the alley!

I know this thing is headed for the dumpster now but a food grade O-Ring lube might be a better choice. Something like this:
http://www.clearcoproducts.com/greases_compounds.html

What I find strange is the web page above says
" Product Equivalent: Dow Corning® 111, DC 111 "

We use Dow 111 all the time at work and I don't think I would use that in direct contact with my water at home.

Don't know what RTV you were using but I bet if you check the MSDS its not a good choice and probably not NSF approved for use in direct contact with potable water.

[Devine Plumbing]

Hopefully, I am not too late. Do not under any conditions put in that WaterJunk. If you can take it back please do so. You would be better off getting another Kenmore. You are setting yourself up for extreme disappointment. I would stick with a Sterling or an Intellis unit. The important thing to consider when looking at your water is the PPM of dissolved iron. While softeners can handle up to 30 PPM of other dissolved minerals, they can only handle 3 PPM of iron maximum. Any higher and you should also be using an iron filter.

[The Wood Meister]

Hopefully, I am not too late. Do not under any conditions put in that WaterJunk. If you can take it back please do so. You would be better off getting another Kenmore. You are setting yourself up for extreme disappointment. I would stick with a Sterling or an Intellis unit. The important thing to consider when looking at your water is the PPM of dissolved iron. While softeners can handle up to 30 PPM of other dissolved minerals, they can only handle 3 PPM of iron maximum. Any higher and you should also be using an iron filter.


What is it that you don't like about the WaterBoss? I have not read anything bad about them in all my reading. Others call the Kenmore junk too. I dunno, it's paid for, ordered and on the way. It's not too late to cancel but I need something concrete to change my mind here.

Mark

[Devine Plumbing]

What is it that you don't like about the WaterBoss? I have not read anything bad about them in all my reading. Others call the Kenmore junk too. I dunno, it's paid for, ordered and on the way. It's not too late to cancel but I need something concrete to change my mind here.

Mark

Maybe I should not speak so harshly of them. I have only installed one and that was after the customer practically begged me to do so. That was three years ago and he is happy with it. However, I have taken out a couple of dozen and thrown them away because the customer was unhappy with them. I guess I just don't care for their compact size and their hose connections. However, anything you buy in today's market is going to be a 10-15 year softener. I have installed about 300 of the MacClean Intellis softeners without any customer complaints.

[The Wood Meister]

Thanks.

I had not heard of them until someone posted a link here, then I saw them at HD and figured they can't be much worse than the Sears, which had it not sprung this stupid leak, would still be going.

For me, i'm not "into" soft water. Not a big deal to me, but my wife likes it. It's just the 2 of us now so I don't need a big high volume unit, just something to take the edge off her shower water.

I take it that they plumb up like a washing machine, with two hoses? Not sure I like that either but maybe I can do it with solid copper for a more worry free install. I'll be doing it myself Saturday. I guess hoses are ok too, providing they are decent. I usually only use the stainless ones but those would be too small ID to feed the whole house.

I'll post back on my progress and how it works.

Mark

[Devine Plumbing]

Thanks.

I had not heard of them until someone posted a link here, then I saw them at HD and figured they can't be much worse than the Sears, which had it not sprung this stupid leak, would still be going.

For me, i'm not "into" soft water. Not a big deal to me, but my wife likes it. It's just the 2 of us now so I don't need a big high volume unit, just something to take the edge off her shower water.

I take it that they plumb up like a washing machine, with two hoses? Not sure I like that either but maybe I can do it with solid copper for a more worry free install. I'll be doing it myself Saturday. I guess hoses are ok too, providing they are decent. I usually only use the stainless ones but those would be too small ID to feed the whole house.

I'll post back on my progress and how it works.

Mark

Shouldn't be too bad, the hoses are a little heavier than just a regular washer hose. They are 3/4" FIP x 3/4" FIP. You may even consider using some copper flex tubes that many on here have talked about using on water heater applications. At least you have a lot of help if you run into problems.

[The Wood Meister]

Well, I'm always up for a challenge! LOL I'm a cabinet maker by trade but can do about anything around here that needs done. About all that I'll have to do it build a stand for it so it doesn't end up hiding down next to my BBQ! Like to have the lid at least as high as the cooking area so I can dump in the salt.

[The Wood Meister]

Well, it's all done. For some reason I thought it hooked up with hoses, like in washing machine hoses. Nope. Just like my old Kenmore,,,,,EXCEPT the stupid "IN" and "OUT" were switched!!!! Can't they get together and make this crap uniform!!!! Arggggg.

Anyways, One trip back to the store for a couple 90's and I was in business. My soldering isn't the prettiest but it flowed in good and doesn't leak. Now for a little paint touch up and I'm done!!!

http://www.wonders-in-wood.us/images/ridgid/softener1.jpg

http://www.wonders-in-wood.us/images/ridgid/softener2.jpg

[gear junkie]

Since you know how to solder, why use sharkbites?

[The Wood Meister]

Since you know how to solder, why use sharkbites?

Well, when I picked up the unit, I "thought" I'd only need to add the two 90's so I grabbed them. After getting them installed and then seeing the "IN" and "OUT" switched, I left them on and went and bought what I needed to do the rest. Had I known i'd have to do the switch-ah-roo, I would have done the whole thing soldered. Live and learn.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Since you know how to solder, why use sharkbites?

ben, do you have esp?

i don't see anything, other than a small box with no link:thisthreadisworthle

is it g17 again:rolleyes:

ben, if you tell me, please don't kill me:eek:


rick.

[gear junkie]

Josh didn't give you "professional membership" status? That's weird, he mentioned everyone when we were talking about it, even JL and Devine. Kinda weird that he left your name off. Maybe he's trying to tell you something. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Probably just overlooked you. No big deal. Did everyone else get their Professional Membership?

[The Wood Meister]

Rick,,,,,,do you NOT see pictures above?

[PLUMBER RICK]

Rick,,,,,,do you NOT see pictures above?

no pictures of the install.

joey will check hers;)

rick.

i guess i have to log off once a week to update my settings.

all good now

[MrsSeatDown]

Josh didn't give you "professional membership" status? That's weird, he mentioned everyone when we were talking about it, even JL and Devine. Kinda weird that he left your name off. Maybe he's trying to tell you something. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Probably just overlooked you. No big deal. Did everyone else get their Professional Membership?

I clearly have mine:rotflmao1: But I won't let him take my computer and look at the pictures until his clearance comes through:nanner:

[boillerman]

Pretty funny when they give your wife 'professional status' first.:nanner: I was unaware of that, but could see the picks.

[plumberscrack]

Good choice going with the WaterBoss :thumbup2:

You figure out how to program it yet? When you do maybe you can teach me :help:

[The Wood Meister]

Good choice going with the WaterBoss :thumbup2:

You figure out how to program it yet? When you do maybe you can teach me :help:

Well, so far so good. The programming was pretty straight forward. Set the hardness level and you're about done, unless you want to change some of the defaults.

It must have some kind of cosmic clock in it cause when I plugged it in, the time was right! LOL Default recharge time is 2AM. I had to stop at HD today and get a longer drain hose. Mine comes around the end of the patio and into my cleanout. Don't want to pump it into the yard or my Tangerine tree! Don't like salty fruit! LOL Only drawback is it only holds one bag of salt at a time, maybe one a half if I pack it in. My old Sears would hold three bags. But, just need to ck it more often.